News here:

http://www.timewarner.com/corp/newsroom/pr/0,20812,1700383,00.html

James :)

Wow, that's huge. First Disney, now Warners. I'm feeling better and better about choosing Blu-ray.

This was pretty much a foregone conclusion.

When Paramount commits to Blu-Ray, that'll be news.

And as soon as everybody re-buys all their favorite movies on blu-ray, the format will change AGAIN!

It shouldn't be long. This is bad news for the red crowd.

Yes, indeed. It looks as though HD-DUD will soon be HD-DED.

I guess the new HD-DUD format slogan should be The Look and Sound of Panic. :D

And as soon as everybody re-buys all their favorite movies on blu-ray, the format will change AGAIN!

You can already download movies onto your iPod. The quality leaves something to be desired, but it's only going to get better -- and probably sooner than we think.

Everything changes so quickly. Dont act like chicks, in search of the most popular coach bag! Soon, we will share it all on this format. Ha! I still own and watch my VCRs. I own very few DVDs. The future of entertainment is right in front of you. Dont waste your money!

Everything changes so quickly. Dont act like chicks, in search of the most popular coach bag! Soon, we will share it all on this format. Ha! I still own and watch my VCRs. I own very few DVDs. The future of entertainment is right in front of you. Dont waste your money!

You wasted your money on a VCR? Mimeograph is the only true recording medium, don't be such a slave to electricity girlyman! The holodeck will be here any day now, don't waste you money on puny 2-D displays with no smellovision! Heck, I have my favorite shows on GAF viewmaster reels, why waste your money on videotapes?

Heck, I have my favorite shows on GAF viewmaster reels, why waste your money on videotapes?

Nothing beats those 3-D reels! It's like you're there!

Did you get the TALKING View Master? Were they in surround sound?

I still have my old Sony AV-8650 Color VTR with separate OTA tuner from 1965 sitting in a closet. It still worked the last time I tried it. I also still have two spring-wound 8mm film cameras from 1948. One is still new in the box, and still has that "new" smell when you open the box, even after nearly sixty years (I shot a lot of 8mm and 16mm as a kid).

I'm no stranger to the many formats that have come and gone over the years. I have been lucky to always pick the winner when it comes to any "format wars" that have happened throughout the years. VHS over Beta, LaserDisc over RCA Videodisc, and now Blu-ray over HD-DUD.

LaserDisc over RCA Videodisc

Don't think that particular format war ever made it down here, AFAIK.
For that matter, Laserdisc was never really big here either.

Anyone care to enlighten me on the RCA Videodisc?

Why?

;)

I picked Beta way back when. I still think it was far superior. I finally threw out about 300 tapes a couple years ago, including a lot of favorite TV shows that still aren't available on DVD.

Wow, that's huge. First Disney, now Warners. I'm feeling better and better about choosing Blu-ray.

Personally, I'm waiting for the dual players so I won't have
to choose between one set of movies and another.

Don't think that particular format war ever made it down here, AFAIK.
For that matter, Laserdisc was never really big here either.

Anyone care to enlighten me on the RCA Videodisc?

RCA Selectavision Videodiscs came in cartridges to protect the surfaces the players read with an actual stylus. They were similar to vinyl records in the sense that they deteriorated slightly with each play. They competed for awhile with Laserdiscs, since they came out in 1981. Since Laserdiscs were definitely superior in quality and durability, the Videodiscs got phased out after just a few years. You can still find Videodiscs for sale on ebay occasionally, but the demand for them is definitely very low compared to the demand for Laserdiscs with content not yet offered on DVD (such as "Let It Be" and "The Song of the South").

Here is some more information about the system:

http://www.cedmagic.com/home/cedfaq.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitance_Electronic_Disc

http://www.videosift.com/video/RCA-SelectaVision-How-VideoDiscs-Players-Are-Made-1983

I have my VCR, DVD, stereo and dish all hooked up but honestly all this new fangled stuff makes me nervous! Im not sure what kind of new TV to buy or what was wrong with my old DVD player! There is a spider web of wires crisscossing every where behind the stereo cabinet, the attic, and under the rug! It really is confusing for normal people. If someone comes over and wants to change the channel, I have to show them how!

I want a wireless device, a universal player that would play any format including my 45s and LPs! My parents had one. It was a console TV with AM/FM and a record player under the lid. Nice looking piece of furniture IMO!

There is a spider web of wires crisscossing every where behind the stereo cabinet, the attic, and under the rug!

Newer audio/video equipment capable of utilizing Firewire, HDMI, and even USB connections do a lot to help reduce the clutter you describe.

There are turntables on the market today that use USB cables.

I'm no stranger to the many formats that have come and gone over the years. I have been lucky to always pick the winner when it comes to any "format wars" that have happened throughout the years. VHS over Beta, LaserDisc over RCA Videodisc, and now Blu-ray over HD-DUD.

Let's see....

VHS- Dead
Beta- Deader
Laserdisc- Deader than Dead
RCA Videodisc- Dead on Arrival

and now Blu-Ray and HD-DVD (Both dead in less than 5 years)... Let's face it, you're a technology killer! :p

I like the idea of new technology improvements, but, it happens too fast in our society. Every 5 years, a new technology comes on the market which makes our old technology, that we spent money on, obsolete. I probably won't be replacing my old DVDs with Blueray, like the video manufacturers are probably hoping. I have bought the classic Universal Monster films on VHS and DVD. I don't really want to buy them again in Blueray. However, my kid is starting to buy new Blueray movies, like the recent Resident Evil Extinction, for his PS3 now. What will be following the Blueray format in the future?

Blu(er)ray?

Let's see....

VHS- Dead
Beta- Deader
Laserdisc- Deader than Dead
RCA Videodisc- Dead on Arrival

and now Blu-Ray and HD-DVD (Both dead in less than 5 years)... Let's face it, you're a technology killer! :p

Perhaps. Let's see:

VHS - Introduced in 1976 - Dead as far as prerecorded media, but still very much in use for OTA recording and legacy playback of VHS tape libraries.
I still have an S-VHS model with built-in TBC and DNR for playback and transfer of my own rather extensive S-VHS/VHS tape library.

Beta - Deader (True) Released in 1975. Great picture to begin with, but they eliminated the X1 (best quality) recording speed when they introduced the beta II & III. That soured the format for me. Never bought one because of this.

LaserDisc - Introduced in 1977. Lasted over 22 years, with the last pressings released in 1999. Pioneer still makes a LaserDisc/DVD combo player. I still own my second player, a Pioneer model from 1987. Picture and sound as good as the day I bought it. Over 400 discs still in my collection, with a good portion still not released in DVD format.

RCA Videodisc - Dead on Arrival (Not completely. It lasted for about as long as the soon-to-be-defunct HD-DUD format, about two years). Vinyl record needle-in-groove technology. Picture only marginally better than VHS. Well below that of LaserDisc. Never owned one. Never wanted to own one.

HD-DUD - Knew it would die before it was ever released. Originally red laser-based in design, then switched to blue laser in feeble attempt to try and match superior Blu-ray design specs before released to public, but failed. Toshiba claimed that cheaper was better, and that 36mb/sec was enough. 30GB discs were enough. It wasn't.

Less expensive players were compromised with only 1080i maximum output, rather than the superior 1080p digital cinema standard output. Only the more expensive players supported this quality level.

Just proves that the first horse out of the gate is not necessarily the one who wins the race.

How does the color of the laser used to read the disc
affect the picture quality?
When the DVD is examined with a microscope, the information
is encoded as a series of dots and dashes. The laser just
rides across these bumps. Why would the color affect the
reading of these bumps?

The blue laser has a finer wavelength than the red laser used to read CDs and DVDs. Thus smaller pits can be used on the disc, and therefore more density in the packing of information stored on the disc.

Neat!
Thanks for the information. Finally, I know a little about the subject.

RCA Selectavision Videodiscs came in cartridges to protect the surfaces the players read with an actual stylus. They were similar to vinyl records in the sense that they deteriorated slightly with each play. They competed for awhile with Laserdiscs, since they came out in 1981. Since Laserdiscs were definitely superior in quality and durability, the Videodiscs got phased out after just a few years.
Interesting. Thanks for the heads-up Phrank.

Apparently HD-DUD is/was easier to copy (did I say that?) than Blu-Ray..? Would that be because of it being more similar to standard DVDs than Blu-Ray?

i'm gonna wait for at least another year for the dust to settle before i choose one way or another, but wb and disney does seem to give blu-ray the edge.

i'm gonna wait for at least another year for the dust to settle before i choose one way or another ...

Ditto. I'd say 80% of my DVD collection is of movies that were produced pre-1990, and most of those are the best anamorphic prints available. Many of those movies are not going to look dramatically better even if they are remastered in HD (there are exceptions, of course, 2001: A Space Odyssey looks frikkin' incredible). Besides that, with more and more movie channels now delivering HD product - I just don't have a burning itch to make the conversion yet. I will do so, and I will certainly replace some of my SD DVDs with HD versions, but I'm perfectly content to let things fall out and for the player prices to plummet before I make the switch.

Right now, there is ongoing research for quantum devices to eventually replace CMOS circuits. The belief is that CMOS transistors will reach their smallest possible gate size in another 10 years, or so. When, and if, quantum devices finally get off the design tables and into manufacturing, I suppose the next step might be some type of quantum storage medium that could be used for video as well as computers. I think we'll probably be saying goodbye to any laser based type of storage in the future. Perhaps 10-15years from now. Blueray technology will probably be obsolete by then. Just a guess...

I have studied quantum physics alot, but am just getting into the engineering applications of it this next semester. This is a whole new field of electrical engineering that is still in it's infant stages...

I think this will be the next step beyond blue-ray: ultra-violet ray disks with storage capacities of 500 GB. See the article below.

http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2004/11/08/pioneer-ultraviolet-laser-promises-500gb-disks

Pioneer ultraviolet laser promises 500GB disks
Outrays Blu-ray
By INQUIRER staff: Monday, 08 November 2004, 7:54 AM


JAPANESE HARDWARE maker Pioneer has developed a technique which will allow optical drives to store 500GB of data.
That's according to the Nikkei Business Daily, which reported that the technique will use ultraviolet lasers, which emit shorter wavelength rays than blue lasers.

The paper reported that Pioneer uses the beam to write data holes in a master disk, each separated by 70 nanometres.

That gives a data rate 20 times more than the blue laser Blue-ray disk. While there are technical problems creating data cavities so small, Pioneer has, apparently, solved problems associated with scattering of the laser by developing a carbon mask using photosensitive resin. µ

Outrays Blu-ray
OUTRAYS?
Not outdefs?

more like "out-stores"...

µAnyone hear an educated cow?

;)

Qapla'

SSB

Pioneer ultraviolet laser promises 500GB disks
Outrays Blu-ray
By INQUIRER staff: Monday, 08 November 2004, 7:54 AM


JAPANESE HARDWARE maker Pioneer has developed a technique which will allow optical drives to store 500GB of data.
That's according to the Nikkei Business Daily, which reported that the technique will use ultraviolet lasers, which emit shorter wavelength rays than blue lasers.

The paper reported that Pioneer uses the beam to write data holes in a master disk, each separated by 70 nanometres.

That gives a data rate 20 times more than the blue laser Blue-ray disk. While there are technical problems creating data cavities so small, Pioneer has, apparently, solved problems associated with scattering of the laser by developing a carbon mask using photosensitive resin. µ


Ohhhh....whooopy....whooopy doo.
The real questions is do we really neeed this much data compression? It's gonna be a looooong time before the TV picture quality in TV's ramp up to being able to handle that much more resolution information and most DVD packages already offer extended version of movies and extras. What can we really gain or expect for our eyes with different lasers and compressions besides much more expensive disks, players, and incompatibility worries?

I don't think that this new ultraviolet disc format is intended for the home video/home theater market. I understand that it is intended more for data storage applications. Blu-ray Disc is both a home entertainment format as well as a data storage solution. I believe that is what the article was comparing it to.

So, don't worry about having to buy a new ultraviolet HD player anytime soon. :)

I think blue-ray will be around for a while too. But, the attitude that blue-ray is the final format for the rest of our lifetimes is doubtful in the presence of continually improving technology.

With every improvement of storage space on a disk, people will eventually figure out how to fill that space up with even more information. For example, fitting multiple seasons of a TV series or an entire collection of films onto one disk could save collectors alot of physical storage space.

The need may not quite yet be there today, but it may be tomorrow. I would love to have all the Three Stooges Shorts ever made on just one disk. :)

Well,

Blu-ray may be around for many years. Just look at the longevity of other home media formats of recent years:

CD's have been around for 25 years, now. Much longer than I ever thought they would, in spite of all of the music downloads that are available.

After over 30 years, VHS is dead as far as prerecorded media, but recorders and blank tapes are still available to consumers for home OTA recordings.

LaserDisc lasted for over 20 years, the last one pressed in 1999 - but Pioneer still has a player available and the prerecorded discs are not hard to come by via ebay and such.

DVD just recently celebrated 10 years as a consumer format, and has just now suffered a drop in overall sales since the format was introduced. Even with the growth of Blu-ray, DVDs will not suddenly disappear from the shelves. I expect them to coexist with Blu-ray for some time to come.

The idea that hi-def video downloads will shortly spell the doom of Blu-ray and other physical media is a folly - at least for any time in the near future. You can't even easily download standard-def media now without considerable wait time and excessive bandwidth problems. I can't imagine having to download a 50 gigabyte file and save it to a hard drive just so that I can watch a movie on a computer screen. Can you imagine the wait? What if the hard drive you have them all stored on crashes?

Myself, I like something physical. Something tangible. I'll take a disc format any day of the week :)

I don't like buying downloads either. I remember downloading a couple of audio files that I paid for onto my computer. After that, I wasn't allowed to move it off of my computer onto a disk. Then my computer got a virus which killed my files. So, at the end of the day, I paid for the songs, they gave me an electronic file which cost them virtually nothing, and now I have nothing. If it were a CD or record, I would still have it.

Muhahaha ha!
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUST20151820080108
TOKYO, Jan 8 (Reuters) - Paramount studios is poised to drop its support of the high-definition DVD (HD DVD) format after Warner Bros studio said it would back the competing Blu-ray format, the Financial Times reported on Tuesday.

The loss of support from Paramount, which is owned by Viacom Inc (VIAb.N: Quote, Profile, Research), would likely deal the final blow to the HD DVD format backed by Toshiba Corp (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research) and put an end to the format war, the newspaper said on its Web site.

Time Warner Inc's (TWX.N: Quote, Profile, Research) Warner Bros studio on Friday said it would exclusively release high-definition DVDs in Sony Corp's (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research) Blu-ray format, marking a major setback to the HD DVD camp. [ID:nN04446354]

Blu-ray discs outsold HD DVD by nearly two-to-one in the United States last year, but HD DVD had secured major allies in August when Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation SKG Inc said they would go exclusively with HD DVD.

But Paramount is understood to have a clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp that would allow it to change sides if Warner Bros backed Blu-ray, the Financial Times said, citing people familiar with the situation. (Reporting by Nathan Layne)

Guess that just leaves the Porn industry.

It said on the radio today that the porn industry has choosen blu-ray, and said whatever they choose usually becomes more popular. They chose VHS over Beta years ago. So much for culture.

It said on the radio today that the porn industry has choosen blu-ray, and said whatever they choose usually becomes more popular. They chose VHS over Beta years ago. So much for culture.While I have long believed that Blu-ray would come out the winner of this format war, I don't think the porn industry is much of a factor this time around. And saying that whatever that industry chooses usually wins -- while basing that reasoning on one case -- isn't very sound logic. A lot has changed since the '70s.

Qapla'

SSB

And saying that whatever that industry chooses usually wins -- while basing that reasoning on one case -- isn't very sound logic. A lot has changed since the '70s.

Qapla'

SSB

You can say that again. If the Internet had existed when I was 13, I would have died of exhaustion.

You can say that again. If the Internet had existed when I was 13, I would have died of exhaustion.
Oh great, leave us with that mental image... :D

While I have long believed that Blu-ray would come out the winner of this format war, I don't think the porn industry is much of a factor this time around. And saying that whatever that industry chooses usually wins -- while basing that reasoning on one case -- isn't very sound logic. A lot has changed since the '70s.

Qapla'

SSB

I agree.
I think the thing that put Blu-ray in the lead and will keep it there is the PS3.
Having a Blu-ray player built into the standard model automatically put a playing in millions of households that bought the unit to play games.

You can say that again. If the Internet had existed when I was 13, I would have died of exhaustion.j

Yeah, just from key strokes. ;)

As a gamer (yes, sad isn't it-a modeler contributing to the crowd that's undermining modeling! How ironic!), I have an XBox 360 and love it. I also plan to get a Playstation 3 this year. The thing is, I also bought the add on HD drive for the 360 which is awesome, but it IS a separate purchase. And that's where I think Microsoft and HD screwed up. At least from a numbers standpoint.

I'm sure there are plenty of gamers who bought the PS3 that could care less about Blu-Ray, but they got it anyway just because it came along for the ride already on the PS3. I'd also imagine that some of those customers also bought a few Blu-Ray titles out of curiosity, saw the difference in picture quality, and stuck with it. I think that's one of the major reasons why Blu-Ray is pulling ahead. It's not picture quality because they both look fantastic.

Jeff- You'll love the PS3. It's just a really impressive machine all the way around.

No doubt about it! The only reason I don't have one yet is that so far there is (IMO) not a huge selection of games that interest me for the system yet. Though I'm sure this will change with titles like the new Gran Turismo and a few others due out soon. That is one of the strongest points going for the 360 also; they have a tremendous amount of games available. BTW, if you're into sci-fi (and you must be or you wouldn't be reading this!) AND a gamer, all I can say is 'Mass Effect'! This is what a Star Trek game SHOULD be! Not just ships shooting at each other. For those who only have a PS3, I hope that Bioware considers cross platforming this title so the Playstation 3 owners can enjoy it too.

I agree.
I think the thing that put Blu-ray in the lead and will keep it there is the PS3.
Having a Blu-ray player built into the standard model automatically put a playing in millions of households that bought the unit to play games.

We bought a PS3 here and my son went out and bought a blue-ray disk already. The picture looks better already. The prices are kind of high for blue ray, but, they'll eventually come down. Blue ray won't help the classic older films to look any better, as one would expect.