as soon as jake is done pollinating every flower in california and get's his head back into the r/c game i hear rumors of new parts and maybe even a new 10th scale car in 2008?

hope everyone had a safe and happy holiday season....let's make this the best season ever for team maverick!


william sell

Ahh, that new thread scent...

Definitely need something to accommodate the LiPo battery.

Like, JAGIIZ said!!!!!

i think jake mentioned he is working hard on a new tray for lipos and the slider car! that sounds awesome,even to my ears.i'm going to lobby the power drill industry for 2.4 volt lipo packs for 2009. i'm going to hold out both hands...and well you know the rest of that story! lol

as soon as jake is done pollinating every flower in california and get's his head back into the r/c game i hear rumors of new parts and maybe even a new 10th scale car in 2008?

hope everyone had a safe and happy holiday season....let's make this the best season ever for team maverick!


william sell


Funny how you say pollinating the day after and weather reported white stuff in Daytona. It sounds like the procedure went fine and your doing ok. Get those frozen peas and race with us on Saturday....oh did your voice go up a scale......

yeah the boyz pulled through in fine fashion,lol. still hurts like hell....and the entire time the dr was operating on "them" he was talking football with me? that just ain't right! lol you guys will have perfect weather saturday!

yeah the boyz pulled through in fine fashion,lol. still hurts like hell....and the entire time the dr was operating on "them" he was talking football with me? that just ain't right! lol you guys will have perfect weather saturday!

Now that's funny...

Kat..shootin' blanks? Way to Go Dude!!

yeah tinman i'm looking for some testing areas...know of any? ahahahahahahah

Well, I read somewhere that you got Ginsu's BacK...LOL!!! But then again I think you better keep your testing at home and don't forget the ice pack!! See ya soon Brother.

Well, this thread has gone off the deep end already ..........:p

Tinlips, didnt you have a couch that could have accomodated ?

Jake, nothing but good luck to you, JPH and Team Maverick in 2008 ........... I'll miss ya at the birds, I can't race this year ........ but I'll go by there on the weekend and keep an eye on AC for ya ...........

cya,

Rich

yeah the BK king will be in da hisouse saturday......

Ran the 05', 17.5, Orion Li-Po combo at The Grove today. Car was ballistic-fast. It took me a few runs to get the push out of it, but now it's a little loose coming out of turn 1-2 (tightest turn on the track). If I am late into the turn and breath off the throttle the rear unloads and comes around; but I should be able straighten that out soon (switching from a narrow to a normal width wing should do it).

My rig uses an '05 tray in which I ground out two of the receiver battery slots to accommodate the forward most tabs of the Li-Po battery. Narrow tape goes through the receiver battery slots while wide tape goes around the back. The tray is set back as far as possible to where the battery is just in front of the left rear tire. The ESC is mounted vertically on an aluminum bracket that is screwed to the tray bracket/chassis, between he battery and the center shock.

If I were to design a Li-Po tray I think I'd design is such that the ESC is mounted vertically on a bracket just in front of the rear tire. I also would design it such that the heatsink would have to be ground to allow clearance for the battery to back up as far as possible. OR for GTB ESCs, the bracket could replace the heatsink, being made out of relatively thick aluminum and being tapped for two screws through the bottom (when it it turned on it's side). The bracket could face the tire for a cooling draft while running.

My one complaint about my '05 is that I cannot get the motor back on the T-Plate because the full can brushless motor hits the rear left body mount. On a bumpy track it is important to unspring as much of the motor's weight as possible by moving it back to the pod's fulcrum: the T-Plate. The other half of that goal is achieved by running the largest gears possible (while maintaining the desired ratio) thus moving the axle as far back as it can go. The Swift Performance Pods are perfect for this but the '05 chassis is not quite right. I also have an L4 that I modified via the swift instructions to accept the Swift trays. By adding an 04 Performance Pod it might actually work better than an 05 kit as I will be able to get the motor onto the T-Plate without it hitting anything.

This is all food for thought for Jake. I think all kits from this point forward should be designed to accept the bulk of a brushless motor and possibly account for or integrate a motor heatsink.

As an FYI: I was also able to swap in 10 gauge wire to the GTB ESC. One tip I can give you is to heat the tab (when the old wire has been removed) and smack the ESC down on your workbench. This will clear the solder from the hole making insertion of the larger wire easier. don't smack it too hard though, you don't want to damage it after all...

Bob

You guys are all cracking me up!

Katfish: Will I be able to ride my bicycles the day after getting snipped? We haven't decided if we're going for 3 or holding out at 2 yet, so I've got some time ... Thanks for the new thread!

CBear: What's new with you and Pops??

Jag & Ron: I hear ya!

RCGen: Don't get Katfish worked up!

TinMan: Hey old guy, how's life been treating you and the Misses?? I hope all is well!

Rich: Thanks for looking in on AC while he's on vacation! I can't believe all you guys aren't racing just because I can't show up this year! (Maybe, just maybe, I can make it to the Nats???)

Bob: Thanks for the input, I always like to hear what racers are up too and their opinions on what's working and why. I usually run the long rear wheelbase everywhere I go, even on bumpy tracks, always seems to work well for me.

All: Right now I'm working on; LiPo Tray, Chassis with updates, Upper Pop Plate for the heat sink, possibly another tray for 4 cell with more room for the esc .... Maybe pod plates for running the pod centered and the t-plate offset, and maybe a few other ideas depending on time (like 1/12 oval, 1/12 road, rock crawler parts, and more) .... AC will be running some of the 1/10 prototype parts at the 'Birds, be sure to stop by and ask him what's new!

Jacksonville's Hobby World 21.5/lipo gang drove down the Strickland R/C Park in Daytona. We had a full 10 car heat. There were 2 Maverick's in the class myself and Ron98. I ran in 2nd most of the time mostly dodging and threading through traffic. Car was awesome after I did a complete rebuild. I did manage to forget about the diff screw so the 1 qualifer it came loose. Put a brand new touring car axle nut on the diff and finish 2nd in the 2nd qualifer. Sitting on 2nd spot for the main, I spunned the car and was in last place. I was able to work my way through traffic and was in fight for 2nd and 3rd place. Did I say we had a 10 car heat? There was no giveing and all takeing from everyone. We were running 4.7 ~ 4.8 lap times on a 192' track. I hit something that ended my run. I ended breaking a rf lower arm and the locator plate. I'll have to check if the chassis is still ok.

Jake I'll be calling you Monday :p

I just found this thread and the first two pages made me cringe... first the guy talks about marriage, then he stops racing, then the he gets neutered!?!?!... man what is happening to you Kat!! Put the foot down every once in a while, there are two sides to every argument you know!! LOL!!!:)

I cant wait for the Birds it should be another great trip. Make sure you guys stop by the pits and hang out if you are down that way, we are always chilling and BSing and happy to look at your cars if you need help. I have yet to see the car I will be running but we have been working on a few things the last couple of months including a Lipo tray. We will see how the car does in testing and at the birds, who knows it could become the 08'!

Well well well, I may aswell throw my hat in the ring too. Happy 2008 Fellow Maverick'ers. Uh, That does'nt sound right but what they heck, I'm not right anyway.

Looking forward to seeing everyone that makes the Birds trip later this month. I still haven't decided to run a second class or not but I'll be there. Toodles!:wave:

Buttys we missed you yesterday, great weather and fun racing.

Well, things have been pretty depressing here actually. We stuck to our experiment on the centered T-Plate all through Decemeber without much luck. We ran ok, but we weren't getting to the next level where Bartholomew, Steiner, Kemp, Simkins etc were at. Kind of burned me out with four big events in 8 weeks, so I'm enjoying some low pressure racing at home for now. Went back to the offset t-plate and nearly beat my track record Thursday, so the confidence is back at least, but I need to find a lap to get to the kind of place those guys are. Pops tried his hand at 17.5, but after delaminating a chassis kind of had his will broken a bit. So as a family we're just getting back to relaxing and focusing on the fun factor this month. I'm gonna build and run cars for him and my wife once things slow down in April so we get the cars sorted and on pace; then they'll just have to focus on learning to drive a pancar.

Getting very excited about Snowbirds, I think we'll be really well prepared (and I may even challenge Butts if Customworks can get me a sprintcar in time). Running all brushless just makes it too much fun, adding a third class would let me be on the track all week. Also looking forward to trying out some right turns for On-Road Nationals up the road in Omaha this March (and asphalt nats are just down the road in Arkansas).

Getting very excited about Snowbirds, I think we'll be really well prepared (and I may even challenge Butts if Customworks can get me a sprintcar in time). Running all brushless just makes it too much fun,


Heh heh heh, Bring it on big buddy.


I changed my 05 OPC to center T-plate offset pod and sofar I've been happy with it. My old 04 OPC has always been center center and it works on everything. But almost everything we run on down here is asphalt so that may make a difference. Rug's for dancing on.

I agree on the brushless stuff, I was one of the last to start accepting it and now I wonder why.

And if Lipo ever gets mainstream in oval, lookout. There's no limit to how much track time you can have except for the changes you want to make to your car between runs.

and those little things called tires! $$$$

Yaea, Mr F1sh, it will always be something, sort of no free lunch!

Great kick-off to the 2008 thread guys! Other than the car, the humor around the Maverick camp is 2nd to none.

We got rained out last weekend so no testing in Az but more to come as I find it.

I can really relate to CBear trying to get that illusive lap or tenth. Tough stuff but well worth it when found!

Good luck at the Bird's all!

this humor is always at my expense! my boyz are sensitive you know!

LOL!!! I bet all the pea's are thawed around your house:)

dont eat the frozen veggies at Kat's house .........lolololol.

Dawg, ya going to make the rug race Sunday?

best part is i returned two bags to winn dixie for full refund!

LOL... remind me never to eat pea's in florida!!:)

Yeah, don't be smelling moth balls either .... :)

Input needed guys:

At our local tracks, do they allow any other brushless motors to be run in any brushless class? Like the LRP, Orion, Speed passion, etc? Do you see this happening anytime soon?

In most areas, has 10.5 stayed a big class? Or has 13.5 taken over? What about 17.5?

There is no right or wrong here, and I'm not wanting to spark a big debate. I'm just curious what's happening in other parts of the country. So, please answer up from all over the USA.

Thanks for the input guys!

Jake, SoCal as you probably already know is 17.5/ 21.5 Peak Orion. Hot Rod Hobbies has allowed any brand of 3200 lipo, I don't have any idea if there are 3200 lipos configured in shapes other than the typical shape. Hot Rods first race of the season is this Sunday so I will probably get a chance to see what else is being used. So far Novak is the only motor being used. Hoped it would have stayed Peak/Orion and Novak exclusively for awhile but the door is already opening up. It will be interesting to see how 21.5 stacks up, it is already way faster than stock, and there does not seem to be anything coming down the Pike that would tame a lipo down to regular stock speeds.

In the Great north of NY 27 turn stock is just about just about dead except for the sportsman class.( handout motor@1.40 rollout, 4200s). All of the pro guys are running 17.5 with 4600s. If there should be someone show up with a 27 turn we just run them with the 17.5 as they are the same speed. When i go to other tracks that are larger than my home track 10.5 is probably the next popular class with 4600 max but 13.5 is starting to become more and more popular. All tracks around here are NOVAK motors only. Not much talk or interest in Lipo yet but who knows what next season will bring.

Dick J

Here in Jacksonville, Fl For oval, we only run Novak motors in 10.5, 13.5, 21.5/lipo with novak or lrp speed controllers. Our 21.5/lipo novak and only the 3200 orion/peake lipo. Our 10.5 class drop as soon as we started 13.5 and the same trend now as we started the 21.5 lipo, which is are largests class. This change also allowed some of the 21.5/lipo guys to run an additional class.

For touring total opposite ;)

Jake, it seems that in FL and GA we are still in the Novak only with the exception of 4 cell mod, it is run what ya brung. Not much happening mod,
Mod racing in FL went away when we lost our banked tracks, just to fast on small flat asphalt.

Cliffs track in GA will be running Novak 21.5 3200 lipo soon, Jax is running a weekly Novak 21.5 lipo 3200 hard case and growing nicely. Mike Bean ran Novak 21.5 lipo 3200 last week for the frist time, had 10 cars.

Mike Boylans MTR is talking about starting up Lipo after the snowbirds, they haven't settled on what Novak motor yet, they seem to be leaning towards the 17.5, but I think when they start testing they might find a change of mind.

I have gone LIPO in 08, if no lipo class if offered, I have chosen to not race that week. My choice, not trying to influence anyone, just my personel choice. Even with that choice I can race somehwere every week if I want.

It should be interesting shortly when ROAR posts the 08 rules, which hopefully will include brushless rules and lipo. That might move some folks off the fence.

The classes run at this years carpet and paved oval nats(even the optional classes) should also help guide local tracks to some degree.

REGEN, we saw the same thing at Strickland with the 13.5, we had 6 or 8 13.5 4 cell running and when Lipo 21.5 was run the 13.5 dropped to 3 cars. I for one liked 13.5 4 cell, but the 21.5 lipo deal seems better to me.

Input needed guys:

At our local tracks, do they allow any other brushless motors to be run in any brushless class? Like the LRP, Orion, Speed passion, etc? Do you see this happening anytime soon?

In most areas, has 10.5 stayed a big class? Or has 13.5 taken over? What about 17.5?

There is no right or wrong here, and I'm not wanting to spark a big debate. I'm just curious what's happening in other parts of the country. So, please answer up from all over the USA.

Thanks for the input guys!


Jake,

We're here in the Midwest in the heart of BRL country. Our track, Fastlane Raceways, follows BRL rules. 13.5 / 4 cell runs every week. Once in a while our locals decide to try 10.5 / 4 cell. A little further North and West in Omaha, I understand that weekly racing is now pretty much all Lipo except for a few diehards. They're running Lipo / 21.5 with 13.5 / 4 cell and Lipo / 17.5 with 10.5 / 4 cell. Weekly turnouts for the 21.5 /13.5 class seem consistently larger than for the 17.5 /10.5.

Sorry we won't be seeing you in Florida this year.

Big Chuck

jake in florida the guys with big nutz run 10.5

13.5 is close to dead

21.5 lipo took over 13.5

MTR a tiny little track has a nice crowd of 13.5 cars and 0 10.5 cars BUT the big nut guys at MTR run 19 turn still!

if you allow any 10.5 you might as well call the class limited modified....you are gonna open up a huge can of worms! alot of the newer 10.5 motors have fans and are milled out to be lighter along with different rotors......SO...one 10.5 may run great at one track but yet another runs better at track B.....SO.now you need multiple motors in your box once again.......kinda like the open 19 turn class............


13.5 btw is not a replacement for stock racing...it is much faster

17.5 is a stock type class

13.5 is stepping up into 10.5

10.5 is the new mod class

oh and wait let's throw lipos into the mix! ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

than you subtract racers from the above classes and add

17.5 the new mod class
21.5 the new 13.5 class

novak does not have a stock type speed lipo motor so if you like stock speeds you can can lipo ...........

my oppinion only not jakes LOL

this is a huge year of transition and i feel we will lose racers because of the options and cell failures of the past........guys think lipo is the answer......alot of guys who hyped brushelss as the answer have quit or gone nitro.......they figured out it wasn't motor or battery beating them every week........it's all chassis......

i feel bad for everyone forced to run something they can't afford or does not have the skill set to adapt to the faster speeds or just the money to run out and buy a lipo pack,charger and brushless motor......alot of change at a bad time for our economy


it will be up to the track owner/race promoter to keep costs down and to tell us what we need.DO NOT ALLOW US TO CHOOSE FOR THE TRACK OR PROMOTER.....we will kill the oval racing like touring car is now.....WE HAVE NO CLUE WHAT IS BEST FOR US! sad but true and you can throw me under that bus as well......i'm always bitching about something.

..something I see/saw proposed for the STOCK speed class, since the 21.5/LIPO came out so much quicker than what we had hoped for...is going to a break-out type rule at several tracks.

That in itself if done right can eliminate the need for ANYONE being pushed out of that SPECIFIC class for not having the right stuff.

If 4 cell STOCK Runs 5.3 second laps and 21.5/LIPO runs 4.7 second laps... set the breakout at 5.0 or 5.1 seconds. That still leaves room for better STOCK times - and holds back ANYTHING else and would make good racing.

(I'd only suggest doing this for ONE class, but it could be a way to NOT loose people - and allow a lot of combos) Most of the scoring programs are set up to be able to inhibit double counting of laps quicker than the pre-set... Shouldn't be too hard to work out the kinks and bugs (if desired)

talk about a potential headache... What would prevent someone from holding back until the main and only using the extra power when you want to get around the car in front of you? its just like drag racing only much more complicated and a logistic nightmare.. what it comes down to is none of these brushless/brushed/lipo/Nimh combos are the same. the only thing I think will work together is 17.5 with stock. there are no lipo/nimh combos that work together. 10.5 with 17.5 lipo is close but 10.5 has proven itself quicker... Its just a little crazy that we have backed ourselves into this corner. I didn't see a problem with the way it was 2 years ago but I guess I was the only one with that view. Now we have to deal with blowing up 200 dollar speedos and 90 dollar motors and may bye 120 dollar packs along with the 200 dollar chargers... Man I though $2.95 for a set of brushes was bad... by the way does anyone know where to get a "team speed control" I hear that is the only way to beat the pros!!! :)

disclaimer: These are just the views of a racer who has been flooded with info in the last 2 weeks. My brain is tired I am a little fired up, our club will be going brushless this year and I am willing to except it but I think we have perhaps started to dig our self into a hole that could potentially sting us if we are not careful..

end rant

What would prevent someone from holding back until the main and only using the extra power when you want to get around the car in front of you?

Well, that's why in general when you use this type of racing...it has to be for racers who BELIEVE in this type of racing.

There are guys who will try to SCREW UP any type of rules - but in the scenario you propose, most likely on a lap like you've described - that lap would be TOO quick - and NOT be scored...so there would be no benefit.

"Break-Out" racing can be a chore, and is NOT something for larger races (IMHO anyway) BUT for club racing - especially for SPORTSMAN LEVEL classes - it takes ALL equipment out of the equation...even the car if the MIN LAP is set correctly.

Sometimes it takes some adjustment to get the car to go "The Right Speed", but once you are there...it's actually kind of fun.

(I've done it with EXTREMELY SLOW cars and with MODIFIED cars in the past...and actually had more fun w/ the very SLOW ones cause we had a freight train of cars for the entire race...and really had to work on keeping it clean)

Added:
Now we have to deal with blowing up 200 dollar speedos and 90 dollar motors and may bye 120 dollar packs along with the 200 dollar chargers...

That statement has me confused... a NOVAK GTX (Non Brushless ESC) is about $160.00 NEW

A NEW GTB (Brushless) is about $190.00 NEW

So not a lot of difference between the two.

Most of the B/L motors can be had NEW for about $75-80 bucks...and have a much better power consistency than ANY brushed motors I've ever seen...so unlike a Brushed Motor - you don't HAVE to show up at a race with a BOX full of motors. (I know myself, I always carried at least 3-5 "EXTRA of ANY Brushed motor I ran, plus the one in the car...with brushless I carry ONE)

USED EQUIP. With Brushless - you can get USED STUFF that isn't Worn Out (Some days you can get REALLY good prices too)

I have seen some GTB's and LRP's burn up - but I've also got a PILE of NON BRUSHLESS ESC's sitting on my bench that have also burnt up over the years...Some NOVAK, Some TEKIN.

yeah you make valid points but I have also seen more then a few brushless motors go up in flames the last 2 times at the track. In fact I can count 5 motors that went up in flames as well as a couple of speedo's. 90 bucks burning hurts a heck of a lot more then the 39 bucks it used to cost for a brushed motor...the cool thing about the brushed stuff is there are so many generations of speed controls out there. This means if you look hard enough you can find a top notch speedo for a really good price. It seems like brushless speedos need to be the newest of the new to compete at a high level. with adjustable timing in the speedos and a new one coming out every couple of months it seems like an potential stream of cash if you want to stay on top of your game. You can no longer build horsepower, you have to buy it with electronics and it seems to be more evident that the guys with the newest prototype stuff have a hefty advantage in these "spec" classes. I am not against change I just don't think its the answer to our problems its just the beginning of new problems that cost more money. I have gone brushless with the help of Jake, but if it was not for his help and his loaner gear I don't know if I could afford to make the switch. I was still running the used quantum 2 I got before the 06' birds with an 18 month old 19 turn motor that I bought off the shelf at Jake's (the same motor I ran at AZ in 06'). The car was fast and it just proved that a new motor was not needed to win. the best part about it was the fact that we knew everyone was running the same thing. It was an equal playing field when it came to equipment, it may not have looked like it when it came to race results but I would gladly have traded motors with anyone and I would be confident my car would have been just as fast.. we are just mixing things up these days and I never saw a legitimate reason for it that's all I am saying. Its in the chassis, the setup and driving. If you want proof check out the handout motor classes at the birds, there will always be guys 5 laps off the pace even though they have the same motor and horsepower as everyone else.
All I know is I look forward the the birds at the end of this month and I cant wait to see how much faster the fast guys are with the same equipment as everyone else. if people think brushless and or lipo will be the great equalizer they are making a horrible mistake. the fast will always be fast only now they will have lighter pockets.

Thanks for all the input guys!

I feel your frustrations and totally understand. But, let's keep this to a "Here's what's been working out my local track" Or "Here's what we're gonna try in '08 at my local track".

The great debate will get us all sidetracked! :) But, to side track it just atad, there a great thread on rctech, started by Jim Dieter after the Novak race ... interesting reading for sure.

Well up here in the midwest ( MN,IA,NE,WI ) we have seen good turn out's in three classes all novak motor's 17.5 ,13.5, 10.5 .... I have been running the 13.5 and 10.5 classes where ever i have went so far this year , and have had a blast! Love running the brushless motors , where were they 20 yrs ago! LOL :thumbsup:

Love running the brushless motors , where were they 20 yrs ago! LOL :thumbsup:

In airplanes and boats. BL motors are not new, Just new to cars.

Hi everyone:wave:

In airplanes and boats. BL motors are not new, Just new to cars.

Hi everyone:wave:

Yeah, I know just joking around, wish as a racing hobby we started sooner in brushless

a/c the handout motor classes at the birds are just about dead! less than 40 entries in both stock and 19 turn combined! dead RIP

burned up brushless motors as long as they are novak cost 39.00 to replace...novak has a motor exchange program..no matter how burnt up or how old they will exchange you a new one for 39.00!

ESC ok a/c can you count how many brusheds esc speedos have been released in the last 10 years of r/c racing? over 50 i'm sure...i had a lrp quantum 2 and thought i had to buy a 175.00 keyence to keep up with the pack....i have bought alot of esc's in the past because i thought one was better than the other......do you realy think the factory sponsored A&E guy was running the very same lrp Q 2 esc you had in your car? if a pack puts out 5.0 volts how does the esc deliver 6.0 volts to his car but your esc only delivers 5.0 volts to your car? what i'm trying to say is...how does one esc out perform another? we all have 4 cell packs in our cars....


advanced timing...c'mon bro 19 turn we could run 45deg or 3 deg it was up to the end user...in the end you geared up or geared down and both racers were the same in the end...same thing with brushless...go ahead and over gear it..you will be toast at the end of 4 minutes...read jim dieters article on rctech from the novak challenge race..good reading


to go race brushed motors i had to buy the following

4 motors (1 years worrth)
1 esc
1 motor dyno
1 motor fan
1 motor stand
comm drops
bearing oil
60 pairs of x brushes
assorted springs
comm lathe

to go race brushless i bought

2 motors 13.5 10.5 (1 years worth) end of season i trade in for new ones
1 esc
bearing oil
don't even get me going on a zubie meter (not needed)


ok a/c you have been around long enough to aquire all the brushed stuff to race with.........

how about a new oval head

is it easier and less expensive for a new guy or what?

hell i can argue that you don't need two brushless motors either...you could get away with one 10.5 or one 13.5 depending on your local track.....


now it does suck you aquired all that brushed stuff and now it's junk........but in reality you didn't spend much coin at all to go brushless........

and honestly you are getting beat by chassis set-up more than you are a special esc..........

look it's going to be up to the track owner/race promoter TO PUT HIS FOOT DOWN AND ONLY ALLOW MOTOR A OR MOTOR B AND ESC 1 OR ESC B AND CONTROL JUST HOW MUCH MONEY IS NEEDED TO RACE IN 2008...YES IF IT IS OPENED UP IT WILL GET WAY OUT OF CONTROL.....WITH SOME BASIC RULES THOUGH 2008 WON'T BE NEAR AS BAD AS YOU PREDICT.

ok off my soap box

i like brushless.....alot.........i think lipo will be ok too .....but i'm a one step at a time guy.........my wallet holds less cash in it than your a/c.......
\
c u at da birds brudder

I understand and respect all of your comments and you all make great points but but there are things I still worry about. For instance how will it be possible to limit all of this brushless racing to one brand of motor and or speed control? how will that hold up in any rule books? I just seems too good to be true and usually when it seems to good to be true its is too good to be true. I have only been racing for around 5 1/2 years and I have done it on a budget. When I was in school I was not making much money and even today I am not making that much money especially when you calculate in the fact that I live in one of the top 5 most expensive markets in the country. I just don't see how this will save us much money in the long run. call me a Luddite but I am just struggling to adapt to this new style of racing and all of the different classes that its creating. Where do we go, what rules do we apply and how do we do it in a way that will not scare away low budget racers? Nor Cal does not have a pool of 500 racers that can choose to run what ever they have, we have a small group of racers and 500 rules to choose from...