Steve, please give the link. The others will have to get over it, not that I have seen a problem, with Merriman. He is who he is, and I except him as he is.

Hey CultTVman - I think this thread is great - I always enjoy reading his reviews. I think this one is enjoyable. I, myself, think people read to much between the lines. It was because of these reviews, etc. that I decided to order one of these kits.

Gerry-Lynn

Unless I'm mistaken,on the TV series,when the Seaview is on the surface it is grey,but submerged,the darkness and refraction of light might give it a bluish appearance.In other words,if you want to give the Seaview an underwater appearance,you might consider painting it a bluish grey,or something like that.

Actually, on the surface it was Blue, and under water it was grey with darker shadows also sprayed on. The light diffuses so the models looked 'flat' so they added the shadows.

If I remember right, in the later TV color seasons the large Seaview was gray, the 8-footer was kind of a copper-like color (to help offset the extreme blue-shift of filming underwater) and the desk model was dark blue. The color photos of the models in the pond show the effect of the shaded side of the models toward camera. Shaded white and gray objects often show as blue in daylight photos. These photos are of the eight-window versions, which, I believe, were all painted about the same gray color.

Posting this is from a previous thread...

Some of you may be familiar with Paul Lubliner’s work. As Dave Merriman will attest, Paul is probably the world’s foremost expert on the submarine Seaview in all its various incarnations. What follows is an un-edited email from Paul sent in response my query re: the Seaview paint scheme...

...the underside of the feature and 1st season Seaviews was a light gray-green! The top side was a dead ringer for a federal standard color # FS 36118 (no doubt what they used on the miniatures when first built,) a medium to slightly dark gray with a hint of blue. I have color chips of these colors. VERY close colors may be found in the Tamiya spray can range, colors #'s: AS 10 (RAF Ocean Grey) for top surfaces and I believe it is AS 16 for the underside (don't have a can on hand, but I think that's the number.) but somewhat lacking that hint of green.

The Flying Sub versions are another matter. I have seen all of the miniatures or the surviving pieces. The "Hero" 8 footer nose you know I molded. The top surfaces may best be described as a mired (mucky!!!) grey/green brown or yeccch as MAD Magazine would describe it to be accurate. This was airbrushed along the side nose fins and "chines" (side keels) in a darker shade of muck. The underside was a neutral light grey. Period. The 17 footer's top surfaces were essentially the same base color as the 8 footer but devoid of shading. The underside, the same light neutral grey. I have photos of all and can prove what I am saying. Those who claim the underside was white don't know what they’re talking about.

What was the 4 window color? Somone once said Ford Grey.

Right on. Incidently.....

If the conversation on a thread does wonder off the established path. Where's a good forum to hang out and talk off the beaten path? The only reason why I ask is. Obviously we have had this thread fly out to the unknown and before some thread nazi freaks a geek, just hit me up where to hang and we will keep the mickey mouse on the downlow.

Man I gotta stop watching superbad.


Kurt

I will not argue the colors with you guys,but everytime I look at VTTBS on my DVD'S,it looks grey on the surface and bluish grey under water.I know it's the lighting effects and not the official colors,but that's the way it looks.Well on season 2 anyways.I guess we could go on and on for the colors,but since we were given the official colors,I guess it will be up to the modelers to decide which colors they like best.What about the interior deck and control room colors of the Seaview.If some of you guys feel that this thread is a little long,you're not the only ones.

You sort of get in to the whole "build it like on-screen or the studio model" argument where color is concerned, more often than not. That's the point where I say "Go with what you like and ta Heck with what everone else thinks". ;)

Griff- you and I agree!

Just to expand slightly on Griff's comments - "Do you want to build a model of the filming miniature or a model of the sub if it were real?"

I think I would go with how it was intended to look on TV, which was supposed to be a REAL sub. Not too dissimilar to another discussion on concerning the exact colour(s) of several other famous SF TV spaceships! :thumbsup:

Gary Kerr sent me a bunch of screen caps to address the question of "What color is the Seaview?"

http://www.culttvman2.com/dnn/Portals/0/Gallery/Gary%20Kerr/Seaview%20Color/seaviewcap3.jpg


More photos can be seen here (http://www.culttvman2.com/dnn/Default.aspx?tabid=842)

Steve

Aw, that looks SO blue!! :)

It's clearly gray even in many of the clearer underwater shots. Gray is a neutral color--clearly it could pick up the predominant hue of the shot and when it was farther from the camera or deeper in the tank and being viewed through more water it would appear to be more blue. That said, if you want to paint it blue, paint it blue--this is similar to the argument that the Enterprise from classic Star Trek was blue--it was originally very light, almost white, gray, later a medium gray, and optical printing definitely made it appear duck egg blue in some syndicated TV shots.

I was thinking of using a "dolphin gray" (if there is such a
paint color out there).

Surface shot looks like a Brown-Grey.

Steve, thank you for posting the picture and link. :thumbsup:

Gary Kerr sent me a bunch of screen caps to address the question of "What color is the Seaview?"

http://www.culttvman2.com/dnn/Portals/0/Gallery/Gary%20Kerr/Seaview%20Color/seaviewcap3.jpg


More photos can be seen here (http://www.culttvman2.com/dnn/Default.aspx?tabid=842)

Steve
An item of note: if you look closely at the photo above, you can see the wake-creating "bubbler" attached to the Seaview's bow, which is riding impossibly high in the water. Apparently, Uncle Irwin never wasted a scrap of film.

I've made some additional comments below the pics posted at Steve's site. In case anybody is interested, the screen caps are from the following episodes (in order): Deadly Creature Below!, The Thing from Outer Space, Doomsday Island, special effects outtake, Leviathan, Deadly Invasion, and The Menfish.

If you think it's a challenge to determine the correct exterior colors of the Seaview, wait'll you start on the control room! Let the arguing begin! :-)

Gary

Hey.did you guys see the latest test shots of the Seaview kit at the Cult TV Man web site.No longer the transparent ones like the last time.Is this kit great or what.Drool my friends,drool.

Then let the DROOLING begin! :p

Wow, I don't remember it being that dark! :lol:
So Gunship Gray above, and let's say light ghost gray undersides?

As to Mr Lubliner's comment :
Those who claim the underside was white don't know what they’re talking about.
he's right - I don't, but that's what I determined from watching the movie closely. I could clearly see the belly was lighter than the top, I was guessing white, turns out I was shade off. Oh well.

I have a file full of screen grabs here and I have 2 seasons of DVD's.
The 17 footer was used primarily for surface shots.
All the surface shots I've seen show the model to be gray - not too far from primer gray.
The test shot that I'm painting right now will be primer gray with a white bottom.
I'll try to post some pics, once it's done.
Dave

No! Surely not WHITE!!!!! :eek:

If you want to see a Seaview model that is probably well researched and a reasonably accurate representation go to www.fxmodels.com (http://www.fxmodels.com/) and click on site index then go to custom work and find their 8.5 ft Seaview model.
That model represents the 8 foot shooting miniature.
The color on that model seems to me to be a reasonable representation.
BTW - The folks behind that model seem to be pretty compitent model builders!

Dave

^Yup, that's the Ed Miarecki version. Best, most accurate Seaview miniature I've ever laid eyes on (with apologies to Dave Merriman ;) ).

8.5 ft Seaview model

Unbelievable. Not a fan of the show - never saw it in fact - but would love to see this thing in person.

^Yup, that's the Ed Miarecki version. Best, most accurate Seaview miniature I've ever laid eyes on (with apologies to Dave Merriman ;) ).

This "accurate 8 Foot Seaview "was built using Mr. Lubliners patterns.

Figures.

When it comes to the Seaview, Paul's da man.

Everything looks good except the spotlight. It's wrong.

True Admiral, The spotlight was made by FX. It should be smaller.
Also the conning tower has a hatch where the prop 8.5 footer has
a toggle switch.
Alan

I saw and touched the 17 1/2 inch studio model back in 1972, when it was on display in Buena park, Ca. it had a rough texture and was a medium dark gray.

I wonder if anyone will be releasing aftermarket toggle switch details! There's a big toggle between the two "cadillac" tail fins on the upper rear hull--I always remember watching the crappy 16mm syndication prints and seeing that detail during the crash sequences and thinking that was some little observation bubble and then realizing it was a toggle switch...

I saw and touched the 17 1/2 inch studio model back in 1972, when it was on display in Buena park, Ca. it had a rough texture and was a medium dark gray.
17 1/2 inch? Was that the one on Nelson's desk/shelf?

I have a file full of screen grabs here and I have 2 seasons of DVD's.
The 17 footer was used primarily for surface shots.
All the surface shots I've seen show the model to be gray - not too far from primer gray.
The test shot that I'm painting right now will be primer gray with a white bottom.
Dave
Normally, a movie or TV prop that's supposed to appear white onscreen is painted a darker, off-white color to make it photograph less "hot," but I started wondering if this practice holds true for underwater photography. Since the bottom of the Seaview models would have always been filmed underwater, with more diffuse, subdued lighting, would fx technicians have bothered to mix a special shade of light gray, or might they have used out-of-the-can white?

I went straight to the source and asked Dave Merriman if he uncovered any of the original white/light gray paint when he restored the 17-footer. Dave replied:

"When I sanded down to gel-coat I kept getting layers of white below the bilge keel. So there!"

When you think about it, a plain white bottom might be more practical by making it easier to retouch any scrapes or dings on that occurred during filming or transporting the heavy models. No mixing or matching of a special light gray color - just pop open a can of white.

The amount of weathering you apply to your Seaview model is a personal decision, but as a former boat owner, I can say that if you paint the bottom of a real-life sub pure white, it sure as heck won't remain white for very long!

I also asked Dave about the gray upper surfaces of the 17-footer:

"Some fool had hit the thing with some spray-can silver. I went through all sorts of shades of gray during spot sanding. White and shades of gray is what I remember, Gary. I did bounce the (then new) FSN color chips against the shade of gray that seemed predominant and it was so close to 131s fill n' sand as to not matter. Primer gray is what I painted it."

FYI, the primer that Dave mentions is DuPont Fill ’N Sand 131S Acrylic Primer-Surfacer.

Gary

Okay, so the bottom WAS white after all? :freak:

This is more fun than slamming my head in a car door. almost.

Hey, good luck figuring out what shade of gray to paint it. Mine will be Testors Intermediate Blue. It's kind of a gray blue. Sue me.
BTW- Isn't Miarecki (sp?) the guy that did the prismatic paint restoration on the Big E?
If so, I rest my case.

Okay, so the bottom WAS white after all? :freak:

This is more fun than slamming my head in a car door. almost.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I've seen Paul's original bow of the 8.5 ft Seaview model, and I have a casting that was painted by Paul. The bottom is technically a light gray, but appears to the casual observer to be "dirty, yucky white." In addition to the base color, whatever it was, "shadows" were sprayed along the edges of the main and bilge keels.

Like I said earlier, even if you painted the real Seaview with pure Arctic White paint, it would not stay pure white for very long. I think that I'll paint the bottom of my Seaview an off-white shade (to be determined later) and not worry about it.

Are these good looking naked people or ugly naked people? It makes all the difference.

:) Even after midnite?

Now hearing that Dave Metzner and Dave Merriman are involved in this project, the odd-ball 1/128 scale is even more of a mystery to me.

It seems that both of them would have pushed for 1/144 scale a much more common scale (especially for subs).

Hwever, I seem to remember reading a long time ago from Merriman claiming a length closer to 460 blah, blah feet. Which would bring the 'scale' of this kit closer to 1/144. However there is the interior contend with in 1/128.

I've been trying to avoid this kit because of the scale. But it seems so well engineered that I feel myself caving.

I'm not really a die-hard VTTBOTS fan so I'm not up on all the details, but I do LOVE the attention to detail and the inclusion of multiple parts as in the PL Refit Enterprise. It shows a company willing to understand the fans AND the subject. So with that, its cool for the multiple window frames, but what about the 8 windowed version????? And why isn't it included in this kit?
As I said, I'm not up on Seaview so I don't know if I'm missing something obvious or not.

At 39in. this thing is going to be pretty small next to my Gato :)

Perhaps an interesting experiment would be to close over the windows and paint it like a real US nuclear sub and scale it out for 1/350.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I've seen Paul's original bow of the 8.5 ft Seaview model, and I have a casting that was painted by Paul. The bottom is technically a light gray, but appears to the casual observer to be "dirty, yucky white." In addition to the base color, whatever it was, "shadows" were sprayed along the edges of the main and bilge keels.

Like I said earlier, even if you painted the real Seaview with pure Arctic White paint, it would not stay pure white for very long. I think that I'll paint the bottom of my Seaview an off-white shade (to be determined later) and not worry about it.

Testors ModelMaster "light gray." It's so ight that if you look at a model painted overall, it looks white, but if you put a swatch of white next to it, you can see it's light gray. I use it on ST movie-era starships like the Excelsior. I think I'll go with that.

...but what about the 8 windowed version????? And why isn't it included in this kit?

Aaargh! Because this is a model of the 4-window version!

As I said, I'm not up on Seaview so I don't know if I'm missing something obvious or not.

There are a few obvious things (to someone that is familiar with it) that eliminate the possibility of doing 8 window with this kit as is. I wish we could have included it all, but just not possible. As the guys very familiar with it will tell you, the main differences are the sonar domes (movie version has a single on the superstructure, none on the hull), the Flying Sub bay (not on the movie version), and interior. You really need a complete new nose to do this correct. A conversion kit would be quite a project for someone, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone tries it!

17 1/2 inch? Was that the one on Nelson's desk/shelf?


I believe he is talking about the 17'3" Seaview. The one the Moebius kit represents.

Regards,
BP

Seems like the one on Nelsons shelf is about 3' long, just about the same size as the new kit..

Now hearing that Dave Metzner and Dave Merriman are involved in this project, the odd-ball 1/128 scale is even more of a mystery to me.

Perhaps it was more the size of off the shelf (Merriman's shelf anyway) RC components that determined the scale.

Behind Nelsons desk is a two foot Seaview prop.

If I'm not mistaken, that's the one Lubliner modeled for his garage kit.

Here is a good article by Dave Merriman that shows the colors he did.

http://culttvman.com/david_merriman_s_57__seaview_p18.html

Aaargh! Because this is a model of the 4-window version!

I don't think my statement warranted an 'Aaargh'.
It was a vaid question.

Excuse me please, I'm the guy who mostly decided what size this thing is going to be.
The 39 inch length was determined at the earliest inception of the kit.
Because a 1/96 scale kit would be about 52 inches long AND it would be about 11 inches wide. 1/96 was ruled out mainly because the box would have been enormous!
By the way, a 52 inch Seaview would never fit in the same sized box as a 52 inch Gato because the shape of the hulls are so different, a 1/96 Seaview would need a bigger box to accomodate the wide bow!

I've been wrestling with a Test shot, painting it for photography. 39 inches is a BIG model 52 inches is a HUGE model!!! and yes I do have a Gato kit in my personal stash!

At 1/128 the details on the walls of the control room are going to be a real challenge to paint @ 1/144 they'd be even harder to see!
@ 1/128 the hand rails in the control room look reasonably to scale @ 1/144 they would be very difficult to mold in a scale thickness.
Sorry 1/144 seemed too small for what we wanted to accomplish.
The logic was to produce the LARGEST model that would fit into a reasonable sized box!

To make a loooong story short, after what I thought was reasoned and careful consideration the conclusion was that 1/96 is too big and 1/144 is too small so to paraphrase Goldilocks 1/128 is just right.

The determination of size was made long before David Merriman or Gary Kerr were invoved in the project. David Merriman's RC conversion project has been made to fit our Seaview, not the other way around.

Trust me, I do try to think about what the kit will be like to tool, produce, package, and to build before I grab a scale size out of the air for no real justifiable reason.

Dave