I have never raced a 4600 pack or graphed one out vs. a very good 4200 ,,

Just how much better are they ?? The overall labels I've seen are no better Ir's or average voltage than a good 4200 .

I'm just saying ,, it wasn't too hard to get your hands on 1.3-1.4 IR 4200's with 460 + runtime.

Whats the race track feedback ????

well kinda hard to figure that now that 4200s are pretty much, I say pretty much gone. only a few matchers still have anyleft and not too many more out there to get from Importers either.......... EnerG4600 and IB4600s are out there now..........

So on track performance will be either hurt or better for all............

I have two 4 cell 4600 EP packs and they are basically 4200s in new shrink.

then y they cost more shrink?

I have two 4 cell 4600 EP packs and they are basically 4200s in new shrink.

Agreed, Hopefully they hold their "Good" for a few more runs than the 4200's

I have two 4 cell 4600 EP packs and they are basically 4200s in new shrink.


I kind of suspected that as you don't hear any ranting and raving from the racers,
all you see are marketing adds from the importers.

Like I said , We chose not to run our pan car , since we have other vehicles,
and I sold some Pro-match Ep-4200's that had better numbers that what I've seen on any 4600's ??????

WHY DON'T THEY JUST MARKET THEM TRUTHFULLY AND EITHER SAY THEY'LL ACCEPT 4600 MAH OF CHG " WHICH MEANS NOTHING " OR SAY UP TO 4600 AS IF YOU READ THE SPEC SHEETS ON SOME CELLS , ITS SAYS TYPICAL
MAH OF 4450-4500. :confused:

WITH TODAYS ECONOMY , THEY CAN'T BE PULLING THIS CRAP IF THEY WANT ANYBODY TO PARTICIPATE :(

I just got a dirrect quote from a reputable matcher.

"Yeah ,,,, they have a little more run time and Hmm , slightly more voltage"

Sounds like I'm going to rush out and get some ??????????????? :confused:


Ir's are no better if not slightly higher,,, that kind of makes sense , if you discharge slightly slower your mah increases . :cool:

I'm not trying to just make this a negative thread , it just anoyes me when
an example like this is marketing at its worst.

In the end, some of us REALLY need some batts bad...and would love to have some EP4200's but can't find any to be had, or anyone coming off of theirs to make way for 46's...so whats a guy to do? Watched EP46's run and wasn't very impressed in 17.5 the driver ran more laps before with IB42's and his car handled much better this week than previous weeks...

I have two 4 cell 4600 EP packs and they are basically 4200s in new shrink.
YUP!!!,

YUP!!!, Did you try the pack on the track. You will see a big difference from 4200's. The only problem is these packs are to fast. Unless you can make a 3.5 car turn you might have to gear down a few teeth! Either that or put an anchor on your car. If anything these pack will require a wing! :woohoo:

In the end, some of us REALLY need some batts bad...and would love to have some EP4200's but can't find any to be had, or anyone coming off of theirs to make way for 46's...so whats a guy to do? Watched EP46's run and wasn't very impressed in 17.5 the driver ran more laps before with IB42's and his car handled much better this week than previous weeks...


Rob Murdock had some decent Ep-4200 's

I have two 4 cell 4600 EP packs and they are basically 4200s in new shrink.


THATS ALL THEY ARE !!!!!!!!!

JUST LIKE THE 4200 LABEL CELL ... IF YOU HAVE CONNECTIONS TO GET MID
2.4 VOLT CELLS , THEN OF COURSE YOUR GOING TO LOVE THEM AND WHAT ELSE DO YOU TELL YOUR SPONSOR ...... THEIR GREAT ! SEND ME MORE


FOR THE AVERAGE JOE ITS JUST COSTING MORE MONEY THIS WINTER :(

Has anyone found a single matcher that has found a true 10% increase in runtime and a better IR and average voltage in a 4600 cell than a good 4200 ?????

Seems like Team Orion is one of the most upstanding with marketing an
honest 4200 cell , everybody else is just playing a label game, or maybe
this is a GRAY area when it comes to marketing a product. :(

I have a few EP 4200's and just picked up a EP 4600. Like you guys said...the voltage curve and IR's are identical. The 4600 just has more runtime. This is great in my opinion...4600's won't be any advantage in 13.5 or slower, no reason to buy more new batteries.

I really like the EP cells, 4 months old and still cycle like when they were new. Zero loss in runtime, voltage, same IR's. :thumbsup:

I agree 100% with the quality of the EP cells , their great.

The major problem is as a Track manager with a 4200 battery rule ,

it puts us in a tough position , how do you say OK to 4600's and then try

to explain that they are really no better,,,,,,, the average racer isn't

going to believe that one.

We're going to try and stay with 42's as long as we can to save our

racers some money,,,, and then we'll probably still keep them in the entry

level classes.

IT'S A MESS , BUT WE'LL TRY AND MAKE THE BEST OF IT.

I got an e-mail from a matcher this afternoon that his 4200's were cycling out
better than his 46's and another supplier I patronize quite often has added
back to his battery list , both the IB-4200 and the Ep-4500 , which I'm not sure who really makes it, so it's showing that racer feedback is making some
rethink the situation.

i have 3 sets of EP4200's and 2 sets of EP4600's and I believe my EP4200's are better then my 4600's

why are they better? on track or on a discharger? just curious. thanks.

why are they better? on track or on a discharger? just curious. thanks.
There seems to be a difference on the track! or Maybe its just me!LOL :). I would have to agree with NCFRC, I dont know if people should buy EP4600's if they own EP4200's. The only reason I bought 4600's was because thats what MOST matchers had and I needed fresh packs for the Champs.

I can't wait til' I get ahold of some ener-g cells and try them out. but I am really happy with the durablity of the EP cell.

The Ep-4200 cell is still available , it's just that from racer demand most matchers have chose not to import any.

I was trying to keep this thread neutral , but for those that have to run

4200's at their track , Pro-Match has 42's with 1.24 + and Murdock racing

has 42's @ 1.235 + , and Orions will be available shortly with their new

SHO 4200 cell ,,,,,,,So they are available and for the entry level classes

there's plenty of unmatched EP , IB , ect 4200's out there . :thumbsup:

AS ONE MATCHER SAID '' I'VE NEVER SEEN A CELL WITH LOWER NUMBERS RUN STRONGER ON THE TRACK''

I do believe in the physcological aspect , it's a proven fact that 98% of
people believe their car runs better after washing it . :cool:

[
I can't wait til' I get ahold of some ener-g cells and try them out. but I am really happy with the durablity of the EP cell.[/QUOTE]



Has anyone tryed these ??

i just got some earlier this week. after cycling them all the numbers were pretty close but the runtime was much higher. i didn't try them on the track yet.

Maybe some 8 min. mod. guys would benefit ???

But as you and others have said , The graph for 240 sec and 300 sec are pretty much identical .

lol, i guess we'll see in due time like everything else. i'm curious what the IB cells are gonna do.

Local Club Tracks ----Do your racers a favor financially and keep your battery

rules at 4200 max untill the end of this winters season.

Some may balk , but most will appreciate it, especially the young family racers who are the future of this sport.

Next fall will be a totally different battery story anyway,,,,,, who knows what

will happen by then.


The top matchers have gone back to offering 4200's also , so you can get them.

if you have some of the later batches of IB 4200 cells you will need to buy batteries anyway so why wait to make them legal. i ran my new 4600's in practice last week and my good 4200 were pretty much as fast

Every track and all parts of the country are different when it comes to
the racers view on spending money.

We're in an area where most racers will buy their equipment to run a entire
winter season and then maybe buy new batterys next year.

The average racer wants the latest and greatest '' to be disputed here "
but most can not afford it.

If everybody at your track has the means to buy batterys more often then
thats fine.

As you've all read ,,,, my point is ,,THEY ARE NO BETTER THAN WE'RE CURRENTLY RUNNING , ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE GOOD EP CELLS !!! :thumbsup:

My beef isn't with any other racers or tracks ,, it's how these have been
marketed , making a bigger # , they have to be better , that's hard to
explain to a fellow racer that they are not .

We're racing EP -4200 cells and am very happy with their performance.

if you have some of the later batches of IB 4200 cells you will need to buy batteries anyway so why wait to make them legal. i ran my new 4600's in practice last week and my good 4200 were pretty much as fast

B-I-N-G-O, Alan :thumbsup:

I don't see a big difference and my good 4200's have MORE runtime. What I like about my JBR EP 4600's is that they are fresh, have very low IR's, and I don't have to reach for my safety glasses when putting them in my cars.

I don't own any 4600's but my good EP-4200's have 465 runtime @ 35 A

How many 46's of any brand can top that :(

If my math is correct , then a 10% gain with 4600's in runtime should easily be possible and these cells should all be over 500 sec's.

Local Club Tracks ----Do your racers a favor financially and keep your battery

rules at 4200 max untill the end of this winters season.

Some may balk , but most will appreciate it, especially the young family racers who are the future of this sport.

Next fall will be a totally different battery story anyway,,,,,, who knows what

will happen by then.


The top matchers have gone back to offering 4200's also , so you can get them.


Worth repeating :wave:

I don't own any 4600's but my good EP-4200's have 465 runtime @ 35 A

How many 46's of any brand can top that :(

If my math is correct , then a 10% gain with 4600's in runtime should easily be possible and these cells should all be over 500 sec's.

2 of my 4600 packs will smoke them runtime numbers (not that i really care). 600 seconds down to 4.00 volts @35 amps. the rest are around 570-580 seconds. enerG cells that is.

2 of my 4600 packs will smoke them runtime numbers (not that i really care). 600 seconds down to 4.00 volts @35 amps. the rest are around 570-580 seconds. enerG cells that is.


Wow , I guess I am impressed runtime wise , but as your insinuating , it really doesn't matter how large the tank is.

I like your testing to 1.0 volt per cell , wish the industry std. would turn to that.

Are these Pro-Match ? If so , I wonder why their advertising much lower run times ??? Last I looked they were like 440-450 ?

Wow , I guess I am impressed runtime wise ,

There are no 600s at 35A. I think he may have made a mistake.

There are no 600s at 35A. I think he may have made a mistake.

maybe 25 amps?

That was my first thought, that'd be a bit under 4200 mAH, maybe a bit low. Time to send in the GFX?

unless my charger is lying to me... to be exact it's discharging at 35.19 amps. they are hefty cells.

unless my charger is lying to me... to be exact it's discharging at 35.19 amps. they are hefty cells.


What's the Hefty label say for runtime ??

After thinking about it , I guess I'd check out your test equipment also.

Have you ever tryed soldering the main 12 gauge wires "GFX" dirrectly to
the battery and then clip the test leads to the batt bar ??

In theory , the main alligator clips should work OK , but as the guys at CE
would say , at 35 amps it puts a terrible load on the unit because its actually pulling alot harder than that to get a true 35 across their internal regulator.
Way to much loss across that type of connection and it can't be good for
the unit.

I have a couple GFX's and love em but honestly they were probably designed to operate best at 30 amps , 35 max.

They had to totally reengineer the matcher to accurately have it go to 40 max.

Sorry I'm rambling , but my opinion is that 35 amps for MATCHING is great , but us as racers are just killing our packs if we do a complete pack cycle at that rate. These cells were tested individually with
much better cooling and after assembly thats a diff story.

After a run , and a 4-5 min rest , then if you want to discharge at 35 A to 1 volt per cell , your probably ok,,,,,,but still 30 Amps is sufficient.

I havn't even had coffee yet , HAPPY NEW YEAR :)

Has anyone run any of the Team Orion SHO - 4200 cells .?

Advertised to give EP a run for their money

Stormer Racing has recieved these and are ready to go.

Someone must have some experience with them.

I guess their the hot ticket across the pond

Stormer Racing has recieved these and are ready to go.

Someone must have some experience with them.

I guess their the hot ticket across the pond

why would we buy new 4200's just to say well we didnt go to the new 4600 rule to save people money
lets face most of the guys who bought IB 4200 in the past are either at risk that their cells will blow up or they just dont run for crap......
so its a new year bring on the new battery esp. since most of them run like the 4200 so the kid who still has 4200's that are safe and perform doesnt have to buy any batteries........

EP4200 vs. EP4600 just off my FUTABA....

The 4600 had 25secs more 5v time or to be exact the 4200s' held 5v for 160 secs and the 4600 held 5v for 185 secs.

why would we buy new 4200's just to say well we didnt go to the new 4600 rule to save people money
lets face most of the guys who bought IB 4200 in the past are either at risk that their cells will blow up or they just dont run for crap......
so its a new year bring on the new battery esp. since most of them run like the 4200 so the kid who still has 4200's that are safe and perform doesnt have to buy any batteries........

Like I said earlier , every area of the country is different and everyone is entitled to their opinion,,,,,,, No one is right or wrong here ,,,,this is just
a discussion if the 46's are really needed at this time .

I'm sure on the PRO level their a must , but local club ?????

Remember the guy who commented about how important the chassis is ???

Thats why decent 4200's are still very competitive.

Honestly , this IB thing , even though we do run EP's , has been blown way out of proportion .
Some matchers had terrible luck , others, like we've run in the past had cells that ran great , maybe not a long time, but great / no explosions .

If they keep advertising only the ones that let go , then of course their going to sell new/improved cells.

The sad part is Racer's will buy them before they pay their other bills.

if racers buy then b4 other bills than shame on them
i know of 1 track who doesnt even want you to build batteries at his place because they 3 blow up there...... not while building though

and i would be the first to tell anyone to work on their cars

i took real good care of 4200's and out of 14 packs i have 1 left :cry:

I agree with your thinking ,,,,, but don't you think some " a small percentage"

was from somebody laying a soldering on that cell way too long .

I'm no expert , but you see an awfull lot of hack jobs when it comes to soldering properly.

A quick tip for those wondering------scuff the ends of the cells with 400-600 sand paper , clean with electronic cleaner or alcohol , with a Q-tip put a very small amount of paste flux on end of cell " no acid " , use a very hot iron with
at least a 1/4" wide tip " I hate round here" and put a light layer of solder on the cell ends, with the flux your talking about 2 sec's. Take your bars and lightly cover both bottom ends , using a jig , place the bar on top of your two cells and use some needle nose pliers or equiv. to push down lightly on the center of the bar , Touch each end of the bar with your hot Iron and again within a couple sec's that bar should drop tightly to the cell , do the same on the other end and it's that simple. Make sure your solder looks nice and shiney and this is where I like electronic cleaner , because you spray a small amount on a rag and wipe the sides of your assembled pack and it dissolves any excess flux residue ,looks professional ,and yes , use flux core solder .

Hey NCFRC shouldn't you be working :)


I agree with your thinking ,,,,, but don't you think some " a small percentage"

was from somebody laying a soldering on that cell way too long .

I'm no expert , but you see an awfull lot of hack jobs when it comes to soldering properly.

A quick tip for those wondering------scuff the ends of the cells with 400-600 sand paper , clean with electronic cleaner or alcohol , with a Q-tip put a very small amount of paste flux on end of cell " no acid " , use a very hot iron with
at least a 1/4" wide tip " I hate round here" and put a light layer of solder on the cell ends, with the flux your talking about 2 sec's. Take your bars and lightly cover both bottom ends , using a jig , place the bar on top of your two cells and use some needle nose pliers or equiv. to push down lightly on the center of the bar , Touch each end of the bar with your hot Iron and again within a couple sec's that bar should drop tightly to the cell , do the same on the other end and it's that simple. Make sure your solder looks nice and shiney and this is where I like electronic cleaner , because you spray a small amount on a rag and wipe the sides of your assembled pack and it dissolves any excess flux residue ,looks professional ,and yes , use flux core solder .

Work ? RC is alot more fun ! See you at the track :thumbsup:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_meat68
unless my charger is lying to me... to be exact it's discharging at 35.19 amps. they are hefty cells.




What's the Hefty label say for runtime ??

Back to this real quick, how many sec's were they matched at ?
The 35.19 throws up a red flag in my book ,,, if your GFX was working
properly it would lock on to 35.00 amps and hold it.

Check your power supply as this is one of the things a bad one will effect
It has so much noise "electical" that it messes with the discharge regulator circuit , but never touchs the charge functions.

Well I hit my goal , over 1200 people viewed this thread.

Hopefully it was helpfull to some and interesting to others.

The Battery companies will do what they want and we as

racers just have roll with the flow , good or bad. :wave:

i'm talking with CE through e-mail as we speak. see if my charger needs some help.

Well I hit my goal , over 1200 people viewed this thread.

Hopefully it was helpfull to some and interesting to others.

The Battery companies will do what they want and we as

racers just have roll with the flow , good or bad. :wave:
I would have to agree with ya NCFRC, this has been a very "productive" thread. A lot of threads turn into a argument especially battery threads and eveyone usually starts to complain about which is better and so on and so forth. This thread has had no heated battles or anything....

Anywho,
Has anybody ran the Ener-G Cell on the track yet?