You know, when most people talk about the benefits of brushless motors you always hear the usual:
1. Little to no maintenance
2. Cheaper in the long run
3. Same power for everyone (levels the playing field a little more)
4. Same power from month to month (magnets hold their strength much better)
5. 20% more efficient (batteries a little less critical)
etc...

But in my opinion, the best benefit is the accelerated learning. Since the power is the same every run, the lap times reflect the chassis changes accurately.

With brushed racing, it was always frustrating to me when I made a change, and the lap times were only slightly different. I would then have to wonder if the brushes were breaking in better, or the comm was getting worn, etc.. I never knew if the lap time difference was the chassis change, or the brushes/comm variable. With brushless, you know if the setup change was in the right direction or not.

You get to a certain point in racing where the car setup is good, and you can drive ok. The improvements tend to become smaller and smaller, and also exponentially harder to get as you get faster and faster. There are so many combinations of setups that can be done to our cars, it is really nice to eliminate the motor variable.

Brushless has really helped to accelerate my testing of the many possible chassis changes, and learning how they affect the handling and lap times.

only thing i see as a benefit is not working on motors . dont see it as really leveing the playing field very much same people are still fast and still not so fast.

I agree with part of the Ducks statement. For sure though, it is waaaaaay cheaper to run and maintain a brushless motor. The motor is the same every time you put it on the track, no worries about running your best stuff in practice. I agree the cream will always rise to the top but at least now they won't need a lathe, dyno, brushes or springs to do so.

James, When I saw the title of the thread I thought I was going to be the only one posting about consistancy from 1 run to the next...If your lap times are quicker (or slower) you don't have to wonder if it's in the motor build...Now you can debate the battery issue :jest: .

i love the idea or hate the idea that every adjustment i make i can see the change in lap times in practice...for good or for bad you canno't make any excuses about brushes or tired motors any more. i love them!

1. Little to no maintenance (AGREE 100%)
2. Cheaper in the long run (AGREE 100%)
3. Same power for everyone (AGREE 90%) I have NO doubt - some will find a way to get MORE - but I DON'T CARE!! My driving isn't 100% so I'll never see 100% of what I have anyway.
4. Same power from month to month (AGREE 100%) - the consistency from Run to Run, Week to Week...AWESOME, and NO motor motor failure in the MAIN cause I was TOO lazy to freshen up the brushes.
5. 20% more efficient (I don't know, or care what the % amount is - fact IS they are more efficient, and use the batteries better)

To add to this conversation - ALL the motor I have and run were bought USED. The only NEW motor I have bought is the 5.5 that came with my GTB, it's got 5 laps on it from setting up the ESC, and I'll probably NEVER run it Anywhere (IT is for sale)

I was very SLOW to get into Brushless, and very reluctant as well. (I wasn't sold on it) A friend of mine bought an original SS5800 system a few years back to run in his TC on the road course and it was always TOO Fast for the track and the other competition. Probably one of the biggest things that helped sell me on B/L motors was NOVAKS willingness to step up and build us the SLOWER motors that would let us run OVAL at the speeds we were accustom too.

The benefit for me with brushless is I don't have to find someone with a dyno to see if I did a good job rebuilding my motor. Another motor benefit is that I can either buy 1 motor and swap it from car to car, or buy multiple motors and just leave it in a car. I'm not worrying about trying to find the best motor out of my stock pile of motors to be competitive.

One last thing - less need to bring a soldering iron. Since I'm probably not going to be swapping motors and I can solder connectors to my batteries, I don't have to bring a soldering iron at all.

(double post)

It's nice not getting brush filings and motor cleaner on my hands. They're both nasty. Brushless + Niftech = Grubby hands only 5 days a week now instead of 7.

my favorite part of this movie is watching the selfproclaimed pied pipers lead all the "mice" into the sea

http://www.thelolcats.com/pics/trash.jpg
http://www.thelolcats.com/pics/arm-wrestle-cat.jpg

More time to EAT!

Another benefit of Brushless:

When your BL motor stops working, or you need a different wind, you can return it to Novak and replace--or exchange (http://www.teamnovak.com/cs/web_options/index_motor.html)--it for a rmf motor for about half the cost of buying a new motor. BL motors, working or not, generally retain more than 50% of the original purchase price.

Another benefit:

Novak BL motors do not become obsolete. Even the earliest BL motors released can be upgraded (by the user) to current standards with upgrade parts readily available through your LHS.

my favorite part of this movie is watching the selfproclaimed pied pipers lead all the "mice" into the sea


...and then set sail in their brushless powered motorboats :wave:

NovakTwo :woohoo:

valid points,plenty of choices to suit your needs, 4 cell or lipo can be run together, focus on the real source of speed the chassis...

not sure about the mice thing

The simplicity doesnt even compare, I run a 13.5 with a 4800 lipo in my touring car and as long as I dont hit the wall all I have to do is wipe it down and tune what ever suspension/steering issues I had and hurry up and wait for the novice race (the best race to spectate)!! I will be switching over to brushless lipo in my oval car and I will probably have enough time to add one more class to my day. With the old nimh brushed program there were days I barely had time for two cars!

Hook up a Novak 21.5 brushless motor to a LiPo pack and then you REALLY make life simple ! Last time I raced, I took ** 1 ** LiPo pack with me to the track and ran it ALL DAY. No more 4-cell packs laying all over, keeping track of which is discharged, dead shorted, etc. I had all day to do nothing except race, and work on the chassis.

Now that's livin' ! :woohoo:

Like Ron Poppeil says "You Set it and Forget it" That is why I love brushless, the motor stays nearly the same run to run and throughout the run. Just need to figure out roll out and drive the best I can.

Food!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

between 4 cell stock and 4 cell 19 turn so far with about 3 weeks left the birds has a total of less than 20 entries for both classes combined....i think 13.5 is leading the way in entries! yes brushed racing is now dead!

Wow...it looks like only 5 of them were 19t...

Rip Brushed Motors And ,comm Lathes,timing Gauges,springs,magnet Zappers,bushing Oil,comm Drops,cutting Fluid,motor Dynos,motor Break In Machines,fancy 5.00 A Pair One Run Brushes,armature Tubes,armature Balancers,epoxy,drill Holes,wet Xxxt1zzzmagnets,good Bye You Won't Be Missed By Me!

Born 1980(close Enough) Dead 2007

Yeah i think a 17.5 brushless would have been huge instead of a 27t class.

between 4 cell stock and 4 cell 19 turn so far with about 3 weeks left the birds has a total of less than 20 entries for both classes combined....i think 13.5 is leading the way in entries! yes brushed racing is now dead!

maybe next year? by than it will be lipo/rubber tire/two stage foam/cot body/no wingo/35.5 LOL

I can spend more time in the hobbyshop! That were they sell FOOD!

Another benefit of Brushless:

When your BL motor stops working, or you need a different wind, you can return it to Novak and replace--or exchange (http://www.teamnovak.com/cs/web_options/index_motor.html)--it for a rmf motor for about half the cost of buying a new motor. BL motors, working or not, generally retain more than 50% of the original purchase price.
I'm quoting myself!

But, we just added the 17.5 motor to our replacement / exchange options.

...and then set sail in their brushless powered motorboats :wave:

Powered by a LiPo Battery!!!...

DD

for me its like alot of guys have said, basically maintenance free consistent power every time I go on the track, a 10.5 brushless motor is like the baddest azz 19T I could ever hope to build ......... lol. The thing about letting the fast guys borrow your stuff is true......but i also have the reverse story.

This is back in the whipporwhill days when brushed racing was still the king ....... lol. Anyone ever heard of this Mike Boylan character ? ....... Well before he was master race promotor, Mike used to race alot ...... haha. Anyways at the time he was racing for the Big T ..... I was trying to race Modified and had it in my head I was getting beat by motors and batteries (which we all know especially in the early 90's might be more true then now ) Mike goes out and sets track record ........ So I go over and im explaining to him my theory ........ he takes the motor out of the car he just set track record with, cuts it, tunes it tests it, give me a pack of his batteries (which were team pack and the labels better then mine) gives me the gear ratio etc. Guess what I was 3 laps slower ........ why ? ..... because my car was bad. It was then all those years ago I learned if I didnt learn how to build a good chassis ........ it didnt matter what I spent motors and or batteries ........ fast forward about 17 years.... different batteries, different motors same theory still applies........ the car has to be good or the rest dont matter....... I'm still trying to get this chassis setup deal figured out ........ lololol.

A member on the RCTech forum posted this comment in the Novak BL Touring Car Race thread:


Did anyone else notice how quiet the pits were?

No, I don't mean people weren't talking - They were.
No, I don't mean people weren't watching DVD's on laptops - They were.

I mean all weekend, I did not hear one single dyno rev up. I did not hear people running their motors on a Turbo 35 for break in. Instead of the normal "race" background noise, you heard people talking, the football games on TV, ect. It was actually a really nice change in the racing environment.

I love revisiting OLD threads, especially right at the one year anniversary of them...

A year later ...

I love that I was able to pick up SPARE motors for my other cars in AWESOME Condition for about 1/2 price in the USED Market, and now each and every car has it's own motor, so I don't have to move the ONE motor from car to car. Just like the INFORMERCIAL SAYS "Set it, and Forget it"

When running BRUSHED, and running a fleet of cars for myself and my son (about 8 cars between us) I had roughly 3 motors for each car (In each WIND...STOCK, 19t and MOD which is like 75 motors) , now each car has ONE, and I have two spares..plus a couple other winds for just playing.

Selling off the TURBO DYNO, Selling off several Brushed Motors, and a couple hundred pairs of brushes BOUGHT my original BL setups.... and I've never been happier!

im still all bout the lazy factor of it, thats my fav!!!

My favorite part is no more lines at my pit, and time to actually work on MY stuff...:thumbsup:

Lol!!! Yeah now you are working on cars Toddinator instead of motors.:thumbsup:

I remember going to the track and people would work more on their motors then the chassis. They would brag about their big power numbers then crash into the first turn wall. I got my first track record on carpet without a dyno against people with dynos.
Now with lipo slowly taking over a good chassis is super important and if you don't change something week to week you will be left behind. I'm luvin' it......

You took the words right out of my mouth, with BL motors and now Lipo batts, the playing field has evened up considerably. Now I take only a small box of equipment to each race, if you stay up on the tires and and track condition anyone can be at the front. Now there is a lot more time to have some FUN again, and after all isn't that what it's all about? :cool:

I have nothing to say..........BECAUSE YOU GUYS HAVE ALREADY SAID IT. :thumbsup: ohhhh my seems Brad has posted something I cant disagree with yikes......
Hiiiii Brad see ya nexy week hopefuly:wave:

I remember going to the track and people would work more on their motors then the chassis. They would brag about their big power numbers then crash into the first turn wall. I got my first track record on carpet without a dyno against people with dynos.
Now with lipo slowly taking over a good chassis is super important and if you don't change something week to week you will be left behind. I'm luvin' it......

+1 on that. Back when I first started in racing(big cars) a guy once told me "it's easy to get a car to go fast in a strait line" and that holds true in R/C racing. I have always been more about chassis set up than big power. With the brushless and lipo thing, I can spend more time on my driving skills and chassis set up.
It saddens me to see all the post on this and many other forums that focus on getting more power and going faster. All that power is no good unless you can turn at the end of the straights.(unless your drag racing)
:woohoo::woohoo: