I just happened onto this forum and have really enjoyed reading the posts.

I am a few weeks into building an HO raceway table. I have four kids so progress is somewhat slow :-) I am using Gregory Braun's 4'x8' table construction design (www.hoslotcarracing.com). The layout is a variation of the Scenic Hills 33. I tweaked it a bit to squeeze about four more feet onto the table. The circuit includes four of AFX's new 18" radius by 1/8 turns. As I write this my buddy is in the process of soldering the track joints for me. I am scrambling to have it done by Christmas, but we'll see...

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/511/DSC000082.JPG

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/511/DSC000261.JPG

For pictures you either have to upload them to a photo service and link them into your reply, or you can upoad them from your machine; when in REPLY MODE, scroll down unti you see MANAGE ATTACHMENTS. Click on that option and it will allow you to search your computer for your image, then upload it. When it has uploaded, you can submit your reply and a thumbnail of your image should appear under your reply message. ;)

Also, right under your name is a link which says MY GALLERY. You can upload pics to your own gallery and then just copy and paste the ubb code under the pic and post it into a message.

Thanks. Yeah, I finally figured out how to upload them to My Gallery. I have a few of them there now.

Looks like a fun layout to run. Keep us updated please. :thumbsup: rr

As you can see from the pic above, I am using foam sound barrier on the tabletop to dampen the click-clacking of the cars on the joints. It was mentioned in a different thread (can't remember which one) that this sound barrier material scratches and gernerally gets damaged pretty easily. I found this to be true. I had primed it and then put multiple coats of latex paint on it in hopes of this being sufficient protection. However...

I was just now examining the table and found a small place where the paint/primer were not sticking. When I attempted to pull it off, literally the whole 4x8 coating of perfectly dried brown latex paint with a whiteish primer underside pulled up in one perfect sheet. It looked just like one of those plastic picnic table cloths. I may try it one more time without the primer, because when I was applying the primer I remember noticing that it didn't seem to really want to bond to the foam sheet.

I am using ¼" plywood for my bridgeways and I am also considering scrapping the idea of painting the foam and just filling in the open areas of the table with the plywood, leaving 1/16th of an inch between it and the track so that it does not pick up the vibration and defeat the purpose of the foam.

Before I do anything I would welcome any input.

I've seen in other threads where some guys have used indoor/outdoor carpet cut to shape to fill in the empty spaces. In addition to acting as a cover for the foam, it will "sink" the track surface just like the plywood does. An added benefit would be it's contribution to sound absorption.

An even easier approach would be to glue a whole 4x8 piece of carpet across the entire foam surface and install the track on top of that.

If you want a scenic look, especially if you're going to have any elevation change built in the bridge approaches, the newer type green or brownish scenery sheet or roll "grass" is pretty nice. The new stuff is plastic backed and pretty durable (as opposed to the stuff that looks like bright astroturf and sheds green constantly), and will conform to the shape underneath with a heat gun or hair dryer. Of course, the heat gun will also melt or condense the styrofoam forms, got to be careful. Looks nice, and the powdery "grass" you buy in plastic containers matches it if you want to add or change something.

i used the scenic grass mat, works well and looks good. use wadded newspaper taped down for hills, heat with the heat gun. i would suggest practicing with some smaller pieces before using a large good piece. makes nice little hillocks for the spectators to view from. for my elevation change i used wood to support the track and styro randomly cut for the hill. i covered it with the mesh plaster tape. and painted. added powerded grass and trees voila. Check some of the train sites for ideas. maybe i'll post some links later. mj

I got the brideway cut out and put in place last night. Here are a few pics. Nothing is screwed down yet. That's my next step.

In at least one of the pics you can see the soldered joints catching the light. At this point the track is in about 12 soldered sub-sections. This is because there are still a few steps where I'll need to take the track apart.

Once I've mounted the bridge and drilled the holes for the power taps and the lap counter then I'll have the final joints soldered. Then It'll be time to screw the track down, finish the wiring and play!!

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/500/DSC00033.JPG
http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/500/DSC00029.JPG
http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/500/DSC00027.JPG

Looks really good Ted! :thumbsup:

In reading your initial post, am I correct that the table is 4'x12'?

In regards to sound deadening, you might try using some flooring underlayment under your track.

http://inlinethumb37.webshots.com/33316/2527338120099980462S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2527338120099980462pVEAfm)

... you can see the soldered joints catching the light. At this point the track is in about 12 soldered sub-sections. This is because there are still a few steps where I'll need to take the track apart. ... I'll have the final joints soldered. Then It'll be time to screw the track down, finish the wiring and play!! Ted, could I suggest leaving the final joints unsoldered? The track needs some breathing room, or some slippage, to accomodate expansion and contraction due to temperature changes, or to moisture changes in the table. This is standard model railroad practice - leave some rail joints unsoldered, with some space, to keep the track from buckling. In the 'Scaf's Track' thread, somebody recommends it for slot track, too.

Keep up the good work. The track looks great.
-- D

Ted, could I suggest leaving the final joints unsoldered? The track needs some breathing room, or some slippage, to accomodate expansion and contraction due to temperature changes, or to moisture changes in the table. This is standard model railroad practice - leave some rail joints unsoldered, with some space, to keep the track from buckling. In the 'Scaf's Track' thread, somebody recommends it for slot track, too.

Keep up the good work. The track looks great.
-- D

Agreed -- My track sits on 8' x 16' and it does indeed grow and shrink depending on the time of year, dryness or humidity, etc. When it shrinks it is nice to space the gap across several sections on the straightaways. None of my pieces are soldered or nailed/glued down, and the track has no bumps in it as a result (nothing can 'bind-up' anywhere).

My $.02 worth on your great looking project.

Looks really good Ted! :thumbsup:

In reading your initial post, am I correct that the table is 4'x12'?

In regards to sound deadening, you might try using some flooring underlayment under your track.
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Thanks for the compliment! The table is 4'x8'. I like the underlayment idea, especially because the underlayment would be so much thinner than the 3/4" sound board. One thing I didn't account for is the height of the side boards on the table vs. the height of the elevated portion of track. Where it runs right along the side of the table, but track is only ¼" lower than the side board, not really enough to keep cars on the table as they come out of the turn. Underlayment would address this issue.

Ted, could I suggest leaving the final joints unsoldered? The track needs some breathing room, or some slippage, to accomodate expansion and contraction due to temperature changes, or to moisture changes in the table. This is standard model railroad practice - leave some rail joints unsoldered, with some space, to keep the track from buckling. In the 'Scaf's Track' thread, somebody recommends it for slot track, too.

Keep up the good work. The track looks great.
-- D


Agreed -- My track sits on 8' x 16' and it does indeed grow and shrink depending on the time of year, dryness or humidity, etc. When it shrinks it is nice to space the gap across several sections on the straightaways. None of my pieces are soldered or nailed/glued down, and the track has no bumps in it as a result (nothing can 'bind-up' anywhere).

My $.02 worth on your great looking project.


Thanks for the compliments, guys. Expansion/contraction joints is something I'd never heard about or thought of. Definitely something to consider. One question comes to mind, though: if I'm going to screw the track down, doesn't that cancel out sections of the track being left unsoldered, as every section of track will be rigidly held in place by screws? Lemme know what you think. I'll read up on the expansion/contraction issue.

76, I can only dream of having 8'x16' of real estate for a track. Maybe someday...enjoy it!

Ted, could I suggest leaving the final joints unsoldered? The track needs some breathing room, or some slippage, to accomodate expansion and contraction due to temperature changes, or to moisture changes in the table. This is standard model railroad practice - leave some rail joints unsoldered, with some space, to keep the track from buckling. In the 'Scaf's Track' thread, somebody recommends it for slot track, too.

Keep up the good work. The track looks great.
-- D

I have been reading "Scaf's Track". Awsome track, awesome reading, very educational. He's encountered many of the issues that are in my future and has come up with some cool solutions. (As an aside, I would have chosen track #1 because the section in the short leg would lend itself to a really cool elevated section, like winding up and then back down a mountain pass. I'm in Colorado, so I'm always on a Rocky Mountain high :-)

Before I knew it I was on page 8 of that thread. I ran into two posts addressing the issue of solder: to be or not to be... As I read both of these posts, I started thinking that soldering my track sections may have been a mistake. But the one reason I think I'll be OK: both posts suggested the expansion/contraction issue is [obviously] the most pronounced when the track is in a room that experiences extreme temperature variations. My table is in a full-depth basement and the temp probably varies by +/-5º any given time of year.

I'm hopin' I'm going to be OK with this...maybe I could let the track float free-not screw it down. Then it would simply float on the expanding/contracting wood table. I'm curious as to how this expansion/contraction issue plays out on a routed wood track.

Glad to hear you found "Scaf's Track" thread helpful. I hope it encourages others to do start-to-finish type of threads, as I find them to be very informative and entertaining.

I think the track will be fine with the soldering you have already done, not because of personal experience, but because I have faith in the construction building tips of Greg Braun. I would consider soldering track pieces if I was going to patch all the holes in the track and then paint it, like Greg shows at his website.

One thing I have learned from this thread is that Cordoba did not screw or nail down his track. I would've assumed it was attached. (If you haven't had a chance to gander at his beautiful track, here is a search I did of threads he has started in the track building forum. Lot's of good pics in these threads).

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/search.php?searchid=344322

It just dawned on me that the steps Greg Braun shows at his website; the track gluing, the rail soldering, and putting a screw in every hole, are steps to be taken when you also plan on patching/painting your track. If patching/painting is not part of your final plan, then some of these steps could (and quite possibly should) be skipped. I know I spent a lot of time and money on the process of screwing down my track, and in hindsight, I don't think it benefited me at all. For my next track, I will start without screws, and only put small nails if I see a definite need for them.

(Side Bar: I had a dream last night that I bought a couple of new Tomy track sets to be used on a new non-screwed down track, only to open the sets and find that Tomy had decided to include countersunk holes in all their track pieces...arrgh!)

Couple questions for ya Ted:

When you go to attach all your sub-assemblies together, how is the final fit? Do you find it is slightly off in one aspect, and you need to tweak some of the connections to get it to work?

Have you found the newer 15" straights to be truly straight, or do they have a slight bow to one side? For example, if you set a piece on edge, do the ends touch the table while the center has a gap (and therefore, if you flipped it, you could rock it back and forth)?

[QUOTEI started thinking that soldering my track sections may have been a mistake. [/QUOTE]
I don't think so. I agree with Scaf. You're almost certainly safe with 12 sections and, considering your track's location, maybe even 6 or fewer. But soldering it up solid is probably asking for trouble, and having only a couple of very long sections would be hinting for it, at least as I see it.
-- D

I agree with Scaf: Greg Braun's web site has been my "bible" for this project. Regarding my "to solder or not to solder" quandry, I got a reply from Mr. Braun today and I want to share with you all what he had to say:

Russell,

I've been gluing and soldering Tomy track for over 15 years now, and have never had a problem. The track I'm currently using was built over five years ago and works as well today as the day it was built...

-gb-


After reading this email I am totally confident in my plan to completely solder my track. I do plan on landscaping my layout. Filling in the holes/cracks in the track is part of that plan, but I think once I get to the point where the track is up and running I'll probably stop there for a while and just enjoy it. Also, we tend to move every couple of years, so I think I'm back to my original plan to screw it down. Scaf, that dream you had is totally funny. Sounds like you're feeling my pain-every spare processing cycle in my brain seems dedicated to this project!

Scaf, regarding your question about crooked 15" straights: YES. And they have made my track kind of squirrely in the area of the two sets of track (4-lane course) lining up and looking purdy and parallel. My solution is to completely glue/solder **gasp** my whole course, screw it down using the screws to force everything into place, mark the areas that needed to be forced into place, then use a heat gun to relax the stressed areas. On Tomy AFX track there is a 1/8" gap between the 2-lane track sections. Conveniently, old-school wooden paint stirs are 1/8" thick. I got some for free at Home Depot and will cut them into smaller pieces to use as spacers between the track sections throughout the layout as I screw it down.

I spent over an hour the other night enjoying the pics in doba's gallery. His track is simply amazing. I love that hill with the evergreens peppered all over it. I am also impressed with his creative and realistic use of Legos!!

Unless you're dealing with extreme environmental effects, like huge temperature swings, soldering is a personal preference. You can produce as much anecdotal evidence as you'd like on one side of the debate or the other. I did choose to solder because I like the added smoothness. I also know that when I move on to another track it will be a large scale sectional (WizzTrackz or MaxTrack) or a custom routed track. I'm not worried about reuse. Recycling your track pieces once they've been soldered and filled is going to be a lot more work or practically impossible.

I have not noticed any improvement in electrical performance due to soldering, but I don't have to worry about pickups hanging up on the z-bends in the Tomy track. But I've also raced on plenty of unsoldered commercial tracks and haven't really had any problems with them either.

Greg's site is a huge benefit to the HO slot car community. However, Greg's site reflects his personal level of involvement and compulsion and he takes his hobby very, very seriously. Not everyone plays at that same level. People with a more laid back or casual involvement in the hobby may be intimidated by the number of steps and level of detail with some of his advice. You have to choose what level you want to play at and feel comfortable knowing that everything will be perfectly fine. The entry points in this hobby are very low. Snap the pieces together and put the cars on the track. Learn as you go, and don't worry about achieving the perfect and total solution your first time out. Whatever works for you is the right way.

I spent over an hour the other night enjoying the pics in doba's gallery. His track is simply amazing. I love that hill with the evergreens peppered all over it. I am also impressed with his creative and realistic use of Legos!!

Hey -- just noticed this! -- THANKS!! :thumbsup: Glad you like my track!

Greg's site is a huge benefit to the HO slot car community. However, Greg's site reflects his personal level of involvement and compulsion and he takes his hobby very, very seriously. Not everyone plays at that same level. People with a more laid back or casual involvement in the hobby may be intimidated by the number of steps and level of detail with some of his advice. You have to choose what level you want to play at and feel comfortable knowing that everything will be perfectly fine. The entry points in this hobby are very low. Snap the pieces together and put the cars on the track. Learn as you go, and don't worry about achieving the perfect and total solution your first time out. Whatever works for you is the right way.

This just about perfectly sums up Greg's site. It's a good reference site but not the absolute final word by any means.

This bulletin board has many vocal users who are always willing to share ideas and experience -- I recommend just coming back here with your questions.

Amen to that. I've learned a ton in a short time from just reading the real world experiences of HT contributors at all levels of the hobby.

This bulletin board has many vocal users who are always willing to share ideas and experience -- I recommend just coming back here with your questions.

True dat.

Greg's site is a huge benefit to the HO slot car community. However, Greg's site reflects his personal level of involvement and compulsion and he takes his hobby very, very seriously. Not everyone plays at that same level. People with a more laid back or casual involvement in the hobby may be intimidated by the number of steps and level of detail with some of his advice. You have to choose what level you want to play at and feel comfortable knowing that everything will be perfectly fine. The entry points in this hobby are very low. Snap the pieces together and put the cars on the track. Learn as you go, and don't worry about achieving the perfect and total solution your first time out. Whatever works for you is the right way.

True dat too.

My reasoning for asking Greg about soldering my track is the exact same as the reason I keep returning to this forum: I want to apprise myself of as much knowledge as I can on this project. I also thought that adding Greg's opinion here would add value to this thread as it is yet another opinion and makes the discussion more rich. Sorry if I gave the impression that I don't value the views here :-) This forum has been a great resource for me for answering questions and considering things that I hadn't considered before.

That said, I guess I am the guy who fits the profile in Afx's post: the guy who really likes the level of detail Greg goes into. I like the challenge of trying to do some of the things he's doing. I also have to admit that I draw a certain confidence from a guy who's been into this hobby for as long as I've been breathing! I like what Afx said, though, about learning as we go, accepting your first project as-is, even if it's not perfect and that "whatever works for you is the right way".

I started screwing down the bridge supports tonight, but didn't get far before having to get ready for work. I should have some pics to post in a couple of days. Did I mention that I have four kids? Well did I mention that I'll have five kids as of this April? hehe This table WILL (eventually) get done!!

Just a quick update: Finally got the bridgeway fastened down and the track set up. No need for any more pics as the table looks pretty much the same as the last pics I posted. I'm going to have to do some filing on a couple of the 2x3 bridge supports as I didn't get them exactly straight and the two sets of track sections don't fit side-by-side like they're supposed to.

Tonight my three-year-old (shaping up to be the biggest car enthusiast of all my kids) and I threw a power terminal section into the layout and ran a two-lane course. With only one wall wart powering almost 40 feet of track there were some definite "brown" spots in the track, but that little guy already has a good feel for the controllers and we adapted just fine. The two opposing curved legs in the infield can be run amazingly fast, especially the one with the 18" x 1/8 curves. I was running it almost as fast as I would a straightaway. Pretty soon the whole family including grandma and grandpa were down in the basement partaking in the fun! At this point I don't even have any guard rails up, so cars were flying everywhere! It was a blast.

Thanks again to all for the suggestions and experience that have been shared at this forum. After tonight I'm going nuts with anticipation to get this thing done. All of you who've made comments about this hobby being addictive know what I mean. It's not going to be done by Christmas, but I have more family coming for New Years, so I hope to at least have guard rails up and all four lanes running on wall warts if not the PSU.

Regarding the 'brown out' areas: Did they seem to go away as the cars/track got warmed up? Whenever I first power-up my track, and try to run a car at slow speed, it rarely makes it around the track on the first pass or two, but it seems to resolve itself after a few laps.

I've used a single power tap (wall wart and terminal track) for a 100'+ 2 lane track, and after warm-up, I did not notice dimished power when the car is furthest away from the power source. For my 65' 4-lane track, I went from seven power taps (overkill) to 3 power taps, and am wondering if 3 taps was still overkill.

I never got around to doing the closed circuit testing as was discussed in this thread: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=180460 , but will do so when I get my track set-up again, and on any future track builds. As is mentioned in this thread, dirty rails could be the culprit for a loss of power in a certain area, and not a lack of voltage.

Just something to think about while you determine how to resolve the brown out areas you experienced.

Scarf,

It's easy to use your volt/ohm meter and check misc. spots in the track layout to see if voltage is a problem "Before" you start to run the cars on the track. I'll bet the voltage is fine and you're dealing with slightly dirty rails until the cars make passes to clean them up.

gar

After my last post, 12/07, the holidays came and went and during that time there was much racing using all four lanes with AFX power terminal tracks and wall warts. Spring '08 I tore everything apart in preparation for wiring the table underneath...and that's where I stopped for a whole year...

This spring I finally got under the table and did the wiring - 52 wire runs/102 connections. I currently have power running to all four lanes although I only have two controller stations wired. I hope to get some pics of the underside of the table posted as soon as I figure out a way to get some good shots.

I used extruded foam for the infield areas cut to the thickness of the track to give it that sunken look. The borders were made with MDF. while it does get some nicks and scrapes from guide pins, it's nothing that a little paint can't touch up.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c394/tycobro/HOIV082607.jpg

The extruded foam has a smooth surface so try scuffing the foam a bit to get the paint to bite, the rougher the better and the paint will actually soak into the foam sheet. I also did not use any primer, I painted the green directly onto the foam.