Hey guys,
Have a question and a problem!! I'm installing my borders around my track and this time around, instead of using the MFD board I used on my last layout, I'm using the McMasters Neoprene Foam 1/4 inch x 1 inch strips. Anyway, after installing it, I run my first car around to see how the car would slide and I find out that the car actually gets hung up on it and flips, no slide!! And then on top of that, the car ran off the track 3 times and the guide pin gouged the strip up!! :mad: My questions are, has anybody else used this and have this problem and if so, what did you do to repair it and also is it paintable? Did you apply anything to it to make it slideable? Any help or suggestions or input would greatly be appreciated!!

Thanks,
Tom

The first problem is the foam doesnt sit flush with the track surface so the cars dont like using it for sliding. I used the same foam on my HO scale track and it wasnt quite tall enough to help the tires from coming off the track. I put vinyl decals on top of mine to get that white/red rmble strip look so its actually slicker than the soft foam surface. Maybe thats why my cars dont catch and grab on the foam?? So we have similar results, it didnt help my cars get thru the flat corners either. My suggestion is use the cork looking railroad stuff as its a perfect height against the track and wont grip like the soft cushy foam. Good luck.

While I can't offer any advice I would just like to say that the marketplace is clamoring for track borders. This has to be one of the most desired accesories. The 1/32 scale manufactures are on board why not the HO manufactures?

Compared to new cars and track the tooling for borders seems miniscule.

Jim Norton
Huntsville, Alabama

I used the railroad cork and painted it with a couple of coats of red/white blocks. Once the paint set, a few coats of gloss clear and sliding isn't an issue. Give it a try on one of your turns to see how you might like it. Just make sure your even with the track height. :) rr

Where are you guys finding this cork, and how much is it costing you? I saw some at a LHS that came in 2 foot lengths, and I think it was like a $1.50 a piece. Seemed like it would cost a mint, especially if you wanted to border your complete layout.

Its not that much if you use it sparingly for turns and such. But I heard a rumor that you would buy us anything we wanted. ;) Jeff's buying...all aboard! The local track here used it on their tomy 4 lane setup and it was perfect hieght to match the track so I say its worth it on the outsides of the corners.

You can paint the foam, which will make it a little slicker and a bit more durable.

One of the problems I found with the McMaster/Carr neoprene is that the stick-um on it is fairly permanent. I tried one little piece on my track, then went to move it, and it was a pain to get off all the pieces of foam. I did not try any solvents, as I did not want to mess up my paint finish. For MDF borders, I looped some blue painters tape under each piece, and not only did this bring them to a better height, but they can easily be moved for a track redo. I would suggest trying the tape method even on the neoprene, for those who have not stuck it down permanently yet.

...2 foot lengths, and I think it was like a $1.50 a piece. Seemed like it would cost a mint, especially if you wanted to border your complete layout.
I got my HO cork roadbed at my local Hobbytown USA store for $1.37 apiece. Each piece is 3 feet long, and each one is factory-cut lengthwise and pulls apart into two pieces. That's six usable feet of border for a buck and a half. I thought it was a great deal, considering how easy it is to install. Of course, I just do the curves on a smallish layout.

If you need a big quantity of it to border the entire track, I'd start by asking the hobbyshop owner if he could order you a full carton or two or five, how many pieces are in one, and what it would cost.
-- D

Each piece is 3 feet long, and each one is factory-cut lengthwise and pulls apart into two pieces.

I'd read that before (about splitting the bought piece in half) but the pieces I found were less then 2" wide, so I am sure that was by a different supplier.

I'm ok with MDF pieces I have for now, but I do like the look of the cork. I saw a track this past summer that was approx 5' x 26', all lined with cork borders, and it really looked clean.

I got my HO cork roadbed at my local Hobbytown USA store for $1.37 apiece. Each piece is 3 feet long, and each one is factory-cut lengthwise and pulls apart into two pieces. That's six usable feet of border for a buck and a half. I thought it was a great deal, considering how easy it is to install. Of course, I just do the curves on a smallish layout.

If you need a big quantity of it to border the entire track, I'd start by asking the hobbyshop owner if he could order you a full carton or two or five, how many pieces are in one, and what it would cost.
-- D

Do you recall the brand/part #? I'm planning on bordering most of my 4x8 4-laner. I had serious doubts about the foam insulation before this thread was started. But, I wasn't leaing toward the cork either. I've been planning on using the borders that Greg Braun sells. It appears to be the best soultion. FWIW: I don't enjoy throwing away money, but cost is a secondary conceern to quality where my hobbies are concerned.

AfxToo, what kind of paint are you talking about using on the Neoprene foam I'm using??

I'm kinda screwed with this stuff cause I bought 2 50' rolls of it and used one whole roll for my layout, sticky side down, and yes it doesn't come up once you put it down and yes it doesn't match the height of the track!! That was one thing I was disappointed about!! One nice thing about it though is once you get the hang of it, you can lay it down in long stretches without any seams, which looks really sweet around long curves or chicane types and you don't have gaps to fill in either!!

I was thinking of using red and white electrical tape to stripe it and I think this will bring it up pretty close to track height and would help to protect it against the guide pin gouging it and make it slide-able? I'm going to try a couple different things before I decide to tear it up. It wasn't cheap!!

Question on the cork roadbed, don't the guide pins gouge it up, especially the Tomy type, since it is kinda(pliable,airy,not solid)? like the Neoprene foam? I would think anything that is not solid would get gouged?? JMO.

Anyway, thanks guys for your input and ideas and keep them coming!! Its always a joy to learn new things from HT members!!
Tom

Do you recall the brand/part #? I'm planning on bordering most of my 4x8 4-laner. I had serious doubts about the foam insulation before this thread was started. But, I wasn't leaing toward the cork either. I've been planning on using the borders that Greg Braun sells. It appears to be the best soultion. FWIW: I don't enjoy throwing away money, but cost is a secondary conceern to quality where my hobbies are concerned.

Someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I think the stuff Greg Braun sells may be the same neoprene foam material that is at issue (???)

Greg sent me a sample piece with some items I ordered and it's a rubber-like piece. Black in color, flexible, and could very well be the same material you guys are discussing.

I used a heavy waterproofing paint that I happened to have laying around in my basement. Vinyl tape would work even better because it wouldn't crack if you press hard on it.

I suspect that a rip-stop repair tape used for parachute/tent/kite repair would work very well since it has a strong adhesive made for porous surfaces, is washable, flexible, and abrasion resistant. But it too has a bit of a texture that might alter the sliding action a versus plastic track.

Whatever you do, mock it up on a spare piece of wood and track and see how it works out. I mounted a circle made from spare 9" curves on a piece of plywood to test my border theories before I committed anything to the real table.

The McMaster-Carr foam is a cheap and easy solution, but if I had to do it again I would not use it because it is too soft. I run some serious magnet cars and they will tear it up in no time with their metal guide pins. Stock Tjets are probably not going to be an issue.

The material on hoslotcarracing is a much denser rubber-like material. No problem at all with metal guide pins. It's nice but very expensive. On-Slot used to sell a functional equivalent to the hoslotcarracing product that was less than half the price, but they have gone dark for a few months. I just know there's a supplier out there selling this stuff for some other application, like watertight door gaskets or something similar. There's no way that a supplier would be making it for the application that we are using it for.

AfxToo,
How does the material from GB rate for sliding action?

I'd read that before (about splitting the bought piece in half) but the pieces I found were less then 2" wide, so I am sure that was by a different supplier.That sounds like the stuff. Mine measures 13/4" x 3/16" x36" before splitting. After it's pulled apart, each piece has a flat area for the apron that's 3/4" wide, and an angled shoulder for a total width of just under 1". I like the look of the shoulder, and I've never found a need for more than 3/4" of swing-out space for HO cars, but you could mount it upside down and get nearly an inch. If you need more than that, you probably aren't in HO and all bets are off.Do you recall the brand/part #?Brand? Part no.? To a model railroader (or ex-MR in this case) that's kind of like asking for the brand and part number of tenpenny nails. It's cork roadbed. You just go down to the hobbyshop and grab as many strips as you need.
That said, a quick Google indicates that there are at least two brands, Midwest and Model Power, comparably priced, around a buck forty a piece or a 25-pc. carton for a little over 26 bucks, online (so that'll be PLUS POSTAGE). I don't know if they are exactly the same thickness.

My advice to anyone who's considering it is to go down to the hobbyshop or Hobbytown USA (or maybe Hobby Lobby or other chain craft store), ask for HO cork roadbed, gamble the $1.50 to buy a piece, take it home and tack it down next to your track (or a test loop of track) and run a few cars off the curve. You'll quickly know if it's for you or not. If it is, go back to the same store and ask them how much for a carton (or however many cartons). Probably a bit more than online, but you don't pay postage and the online seller didn't provide you with a nice store where you could look at the stuff, feel it, and buy a test piece....don't the guide pins gouge it up, especially the Tomy type, since it is kinda(pliable,airy,not solid)? like the Neoprene foam? I would think anything that is not solid would get gouged??Actually it is quite dense and tough. One of the Midwest blurbs I found says it's made of cork particles set in rubber. I've never seen it gouged (but then I run T-jets & AFX), and I doubt that it would get gouged, but a $1.50 buys a test piece and you'll know for sure.

Two other things occur to me to say about cork:

-- The thickness of the kind I got is not exactly the same as the track. There's a small drop-off from track to apron. I never found this a problem with old Aurora L&J track. The Tomy track and Tyco track (and probably AFX track) is a tiny bit thicker, so the dropoff is a little greater (I just checked on a couple of test pieces) and might be a problem. You could shim the cork up with scrap material (cerealbox cardboard, pieces cut from milk jugs, whatever), but that's more work. I think, for a permanent installation, I'd just run a narrow bead of silicone sealant maybe a quarter-inch from the track and tack the cork down just to the level of the track surface. Once the sealant sets, it's solid at that height. You can even pull out the tacks, if you want, like the model rr guys do.

-- When you lay the stuff, put whole pieces around the curves first, then (if you're bordering the whole track) fill in between them with what is left over. That way the joints between cork pieces fall on the straights, not on the curves. It's possible to get smooth joints on curves, but it takes a bit more work since the cork ends want to spring outward a little.

Have fun.
-- D

Do the cars slide on the cork?

Do the cars slide on the cork?Yup. If you feel the cork, it feels slightly less smooth than the track surface, but it is not sticky or grabby. I added a light spray coat of flat black paint. The car ends swing out on it and it seems to act pretty much like track surface.

Remember, my experience is almost entirely with T-jets, JLs and old AFX. For the real shag-adelic now-a-go-go hep-to-the-jive magnet cars and G-jets and whatnot, you'll have to run your own tests. But I'd guess you'll be satisfied. (Actually, from my thirty-minutes' experience with current Tomy magnet cars, turn-aprons of any kind seem about as useful as a second belly-button. The things are either on the track or across the room. As Miss Jean Brodie would say, "For those that like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like.")
-- D (just a grumpy old poop)

AfxToo,
How does the material from GB rate for sliding action?

It's a stiff rubber so there is some grip but you won't tip over, you definitely slide.

snip...

(Actually, from my thirty-minutes' experience with current Tomy magnet cars, turn-aprons of any kind seem about as useful as a second belly-button. The things are either on the track or across the room. As Miss Jean Brodie would say, "For those that like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like.")

-- D (just a grumpy old poop)

:D Mwaa ha ha ha. My sentiments exactly. The guys who run them SWEAR that they get loose and slide, but heck if I can see it. I have a whole boatload of yard sale Tyco Magnum 440s because I can't pass up ANY slot stuff I see at yard sales. When I do get to fooling with them, the tiny amount of slide and wiggle they have never seems to let them off the edge of the track anyway...

--rick

That's basically true about high downforce magnet cars, they don't slide around a whole lot. Maybe the width of the traction magnets. Once you move the magnet away from the attraction of the rail, the fate is the car is usually in the hands of - a turn marshal. But you could say much the same thing about high aero downforce real race cars, F1 and NASCAR in particular.

Lighter downforce magnet cars like MTs, XTs, Aurora G-Plus, HP2s, HP7s, do move around a bit, inversely proportional to the strength of the traction magnets. The Tomy Turbo is an oddity. You would think that it would slide a little more with its bar magnet and all. Unfortunately it comes geared totally wrong, which gives it more of an all or nothing behavior than it would naturally have.

Never have, and never will understand why anyone that has a fondness for one type of HO car feels that they need to forsake all other types and crusade against other types. You can, and you should, avail yourself of the variety of different types of slot car racing available to HO style racers.

Lighter downforce magnet cars like MTs, XTs, Aurora G-Plus, HP2s, HP7s, do move around a bit, inversely proportional to the strength of the traction magnets.

Oh, absolutely. I LOVE to switch to MTs and HP2s and HP7s for a change from Tjets. Nail it just right out of a corner, depending on your tires, and you can wag the tail way down the straight. And the new AW Tjet with the traction mag is kinda weird... it feels more like an HP7 than a Tjet to me...

Dunno about old GPlus cars. I don't remember them clearly enough from the first time I had them, and the ones I have now all have the original foam tires on them which have turned to powder over time, haven't gotten around to installing a proper set of silicones. I do like the one Super Magnatraction car I have set up and running...

--rick

I have both cork railroad bed shoulders and McMasters Carr neoprene. The cork does not sit at the right height for my L&J track, so I shimmed with two sided foam tape. Expensive stuff normally, but I have it at my plant by the case. I painted the cork flat black. It performs well.
I redid a section of my track and decided to try the McMasters Carr neoprene. I used regular spray cans of white and red paints to create a border. I nearly used an entire can of white on about 4 feet worth of border. The neoprene foam just sucked it up. After painting the red and letting it dry, it had some cracking when I radiused it around the turn.
The neoprene looks good now, but I think I prefer the cork roadbed.
Jim

Never have, and never will understand why anyone that has a fondness for one type of HO car feels that they need to forsake all other types and crusade against other types.Hi, AFXToo.
No crusading here. Hobbies are for personal enjoyment, and running magnet cars or T-jets, or Fray cars, or vibrator sedans through small-town Model Motoring scenery, or Jurassic Park Ford Explorers between the bobbing heads of mechanical dinosaurs - every one is as good and valid as any of the others, as long as it provides that special personal enjoyment to the guy or gal who's doing it. And I'm sure not trying to convert anybody - T-jet prices are high enough without a whole bunch of enthusiastic newbies bidding them up.

Having bought two Tomy sets to get the great track, I'm the owner of eight - count 'em - eight of the high-tech high-gauss wondercars. And I don't know how long I can resist the appeal of those Cobra coupes. So I haven't forsaken anything. But, being an old guy with bad eyes, slow reflexes, and more nostalgia than competitiveness, I do know what I like (at the moment), as well as what is popular but a bit mysterious to me. And I say so from time to time.

Didn't mean to get anybody mad or feeling hurt. Sorry if I did.
You can, and you should, avail yourself of the variety of different types of slot car racing available to HO styr racers. Umm, can't really agree with this part. No "shoulds" in hobby activity. If somebody is doing something he enjoys, he's under no obligation to do anything else with his precious hobby time.

Again, sorry if I gave real offense to anybody.
-- D

No "shoulds" in hobby activity. If somebody is doing something he enjoys, he's under no obligation to do anything else with his precious hobby time.
-- D

Not picking sides, but this has to be the most intelligent statement I've ever read on these boards.

To be clear, I'm not offended at all by any of the information in this thread. We're all on the same page when it comes to the turn border discussion.

My intent was point out that in HO we have a lot of choices and having choices is the root of the greatness in this hobby. If someone wants to focus in on one thing, that's great. If another person wants to focus in on a different thing, that's great too. The only thing that concerns me is when other people's choices are trivialized in any way, subtle or otherwise, because it overlooks the fact that having the choices in the first place is what makes this particular hobby so enjoyable.

Like I always say, "It's ALL good."

Ive been following this thread a bit.I FINALLY have my track about 99% done.

Except for the turn borders.


Anyone ever cast borders??????? I was thinking of maybe doing it out of plaster of paris.Making a mold would be no biggie,I could figure that out easy enough.

What about using some type of resin or epoxy to cast them????

Heck,maybe if you wanted to,and you had a layout that was permanent like I have,you could just set up mini "forms" like you would if you were pouring concrete for a sidewalk or something,and cast them right to the table.


Just a thought.


Mike

Heck,maybe if you wanted to,and you had a layout that was permanent like I have,you could just set up mini "forms" like you would if you were pouring concrete for a sidewalk or something,and cast them right to the table.
Just a thought.
Mike

Yeah -- you can get black plastic that sets up in a couple minutes too.

Man watching the Packers kick some butt today!... :thumbsup:

I just wanted to comment that stock magnet cars will slide around turn borders. I don't know about cork, but my track has grade A 1/4 plywood inlays to make the surrouding surfaces flush with the track. Turns have no guard rails in most cases. Racing Tyco's can be a riot as they will slide, do 360's or back up and turn around on outside lanes. Especially if you run scuffed neoprene tires. Silicones will slide but not as much. SG+ will do the same, but as AFXToo was saying, the faster magnet car classes usually deslot altogether in corners or hit the wall hard.

I have heard cork aprons can get ripped up by the guide pins.

-Scott

I've seen some really nice borders cut out of masonite, if you have a bandsaw and a steady hand.

Anyone ever cast borders???????

Gee, Mike, you made me remember something I haven't thought about for years.

Back in the early '70s, I tried casting duplicates of Aurora's yellow curve borders ("Speed Corners"), you remember, with the spiffy upsweep to the outside edge. I think I made a press-mold of oil-based modeling clay from one of the Aurora originals, or maybe I poured a plaster mold over the original and tried to seal it with shellac. Anyway, I poured black-tinted polyester casting resin into it. The little tabs to attach it to the track didn't even make it out of the mold. The surface for some reason was irregular and lumpy. And the thing was heavy and fragile. Sigh.

I gave up on it then, though I'm sure I could do it today with RTV silicone for the mold, and some powder or chopped fiberglass inclusion material (my arms are itching just thinking about it). I'd have to sculpt and cast some extensions to carry the border down the straight a few inches.

Casting the borders in place sounds like fun, but I think it would take a lot of sanding in place to get a good surface, which doesn't sound like fun and would create a nice coating of dust in the worst place.

I think I'll stick with cork for borders, but the idea of casting is always appealing. There's something magical about about making a negative space and pouring something in it and creating a whole new object. I often think about playing around with it again - usually when I see the $60 Alumilite complete casting kit at Hobby Lobby, on a week when the weekly coupon on HobbyLobby.com is for 40% off one full price item. Lessee, sixty percent of sixty bucks is ...

Hmmm. That's the coupon this week...

-- D

i dont know if this was said because i didnt read the whole thing but buy really thin lexan and super glue it over top of your foam

I tried the foam and hated it even after painting it.

Im probably going to end up using MDF from a table I made for my son when he was on a Warhammer kick.

Someone posted a good how to here,anyone have a direct link to it????

Still may try to cast them tho.I'll post the results here good or bad.


Mike

lay foam down then glue lexan over it

I have used the strip insulation like you put around doors and put duct tape over the top of it. My 1/32nd scale borders are custom cut from bass wood though, time consuming but look great.

My questions are, has anybody else used this and have this problem and if so, what did you do to repair it and also is it paintable? Did you apply anything to it to make it slideable? Any help or suggestions or input would greatly be appreciated!!

Thanks,
Tom
I have the same foam borders on my track for the last 3 years. When they get a little more chewed up by the guide pins I can just pull up the foam and put some more down. At least with the kind of cars we are racing the scrapes in the foam don't seem to have any effect.

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showpost.php?p=2153350&postcount=9

Hi there, I'm new to the forum, but glad I found it, this is the reason why I joined. I am going to try mdf board myself, it was $5 for a 2x4 foot piece. I made a stencil to cut out the turns. I'm just not too sure how good I am going to be a cutting it. I am making a 4 lane door layout (36x80) out of Tyco track for myself and my sons to use. I just picked up 4 JL T-Jet 500's on Ebay and the kids love them. My 9 year old say's it's better than video games!!! Anyhow, if any of you tried the cork road bed and masonite, which allows the car to slide around better in your opinion? I noticed too that I think I have to shim up the masonite just slightly, probably with some cardboard or something. Have fun!!!! Dave

So I decided to give it a try, my hand is just not good at holding steady enough, that and my 2 year old kept running in the room every time I was cutting it, every time I'd mess up.....I'm really thinking about railroad cork. Dave

Picked up a length of railroad cork on my last hobby shop visit. It was fiarly inexpensive. It bends around the turns well enough, but will need to be fastened down very well to stay put. It will also need to be shimmed up to be level with my Tomy track. It it was the right height, I'd prob. settle. But shimming around cornners AND doing it right will be a major pain. I'll probably be getting a sample of the border Greg Braun sells before I make a final desision.

Picked up a length of railroad cork on my last hobby shop visit. It was fiarly inexpensive. It bends around the turns well enough, but will need to be fastened down very well to stay put. It will also need to be shimmed up to be level with my Tomy track. It it was the right height, I'd prob. settle. But shimming around cornners AND doing it right will be a major pain. I'll probably be getting a sample of the border Greg Braun sells before I make a final desision.

I used cork borders and a small electric craft staple gun to attach them to the table. They are a little lower than the height of the track, so I bought some sheet toolbox liner from Sears. I used the curved track itself to make a template for each size curve and cut the toolobox liner accordingly.

The final step is to glue the toolbox liner pieces on top of the cork border. I used craft glue. It holds well enough, but you can pull up the liner and re-glue if necessary. The thickness of the toolbox liner makes the finished product very close to level with the track surface.

The toolbox liner has some texture to it so it kinda looks like asphalt. My T-jets seem to slide ok on this surface. Click on My Gallery and you can see how the borders look when finished.

WOW Your track looks great. One day when we have a place with a basement that's what I want to do. Is all the borders rr track cork? It looks great!!! Dave

WOW Your track looks great. One day when we have a place with a basement that's what I want to do. Is all the borders rr track cork? It looks great!!! Dave

:) Thanks Dave,

Yes, the borders are HO scale rr track. I used a Black and Decker electric staple gun to attach the borders to the table. I bought rough grade plywood when I made the table top and trying to use the small nails or brads that the train guys use to attach the roadbed was a major pain. I kept hitting knots and bending the brads.

The borders aren't perfect but they do a good job and have a distinctive look which I think is somewhat realistic. The good thing is that if a car ends up breaking the liner loose from the border it can easily be re-glued.

Good Luck on your track project.

I agree with Dave above Tasman - your track looks great! :thumbsup:

I agree with Dave above Tasman - your track looks great! :thumbsup:

Thanks Scafremon,

I've been checking out your other post about your possible track design. Good luck with that. I will say that I really like having a couple of areas of my track elevated. It not only allows for more options for a layout, but adds visual interest as well.

For Tomy track, the cork is great. I paint it flat black and in my opinion it feels and reacts like the track surface.


Bringing it to height is very simple:

Get a few sheets of this sticky-backed felt, available at craft stores, WalMart, etc: http://www.kuningroup.com/cfiles/cr_prestofelt.cfm

Using a strip of cork as a guide, cut the felt sheets into strips as wide (or a hair under) as the cork strips.

Stick the felt strips to the underside of the cork strips.

Mount to table with LifeLike 1/2" Train Track nails, pulling the cork strips snug as you go. The felt will stay stuck to and follow the cork. Nail lightly as needed, nails placed in the middle of the top surface...not the angled side surface. Where two pieces meet, cut the ends at an angle for a better transition. (looking down from top, so they meet like this // not this l l ). Try to keep the ends "out" of the curves. The toughest part is the inside of 6" curves, heating them with a hair dryer as you work them around can help. So can make a few thin V shaped notches.

Race.

Wow, you guys are really giving me some great ideas, thank you very much, the wood actually would have worked other than shimming it up a little bit to meet the Tyco track, but even though I botched up the cuts, it was good enough to give it a test run...... The kids cant wait!!! :thumbsup: Dave

Using a strip of cork as a guide, cut the felt sheets into strips as wide (or a hair under) as the cork strips.
Stick the felt strips to the underside of the cork strips.
Mount to table with LifeLike 1/2" Train Track nails, pulling the cork strips snug as you go. The felt will stay stuck to and follow the cork. Brilliant!!! You don't have to fuss with cutting curves from the shimming material - the felt just bends with the cork! A truly elegant shimming solution. I kneel in awe and hereby acknowledge Swamper Gene as the All-Knowing Master and Big Kahuna of Cork Roadbed. All Hail!!!
-- D

IT WORKED!!!!!! :thumbsup: I bought some corkbed from a Hobby shop that I havn't been in in 20 years. They moved locations, but the same owners (husband and wife) are still there. They didn't charge me much at all. It's not done yet, but the turns that I did work well. I just used cardboard to shim it up to the level of the track, didn't paint it, I'm not looking for looks, just function right now. And the kids love it. Hopefully tomorow I will be able to get the rest of the turns done and tweak the track. Thanks very much for the advise it really worked out!!!! Dave :wave: