Just curious whats the carb of choice? Sprints and Sportsman class.

James

THE WYL 194 ??? Robert

Thanks Robert,

I didn't know and looks like QSAC has a few to choose from as I wanted to pick up one for a spare.

...............

Do I need to run a plate with the 194 carb for a sprint?

I'm going thru the rules now and some areas contradict themselves big time.

James

Do I need to run a plate with the 194 carb for a sprint?

I'm going thru the rules now and some areas contradict themselves big time.

James

8.5 plate in Sportsman only. 10.5 in GN, Sprint, and truck.

Do I need to run a plate with the 194 carb for a sprint?

I'm going thru the rules now and some areas contradict themselves big time.

James

Can you provide a specific example of a contradiction in the rulebook?

Thanks,

Joe Brooks
QSAC Member 39
:thumbsup:

Thanks Scott,

I just got to that area as you posted....

As I read down into the Sprint rules. This is the area I'm finding thats contradicting.

The exhaust in Paragraph #6 reads as a tune pipe can be used if it's confined within the chassis and doesn't extend beyond the rear wheels.

Then further down at #13 it says stock OEM muffler only. Since I hadn't heard anyone runnig pipes anymore I'm going to assume this is an oversight in the rules?
James

Thanks Scott,

I just got to that area as you posted....

As I read down into the Sprint rules. This is the area I'm finding thats contradicting.

The exhaust in Paragraph #6 reads as a tune pipe can be used if it's confined within the chassis and doesn't extend beyond the rear wheels.

Then further down at #13 it says stock OEM muffler only. Since I hadn't heard anyone runnig pipes anymore I'm going to assume this is an oversight in the rules?
James

I'm not seeing "tune" in there anywhere??

I'm not seeing "tune" in there anywhere??
No but it says pipe that can be interpeted as a tuned pipe..... or a modifed pipe to provide an enhancement of back pressure to the engine.

James

I agree James. I read and reread this a bunch of times last year before the dirt nats. The way it is written I thought the exact samething, because how can a muffler extend outside the framerails. personally I think they should let the sprints run pipes. I also think they should run the 260 motors. Why? because the sprints are slower that the stock cars and thats just not normal. The rules say world of outlaw I think there should be some outlaw to the cars. Just my 2 cents of course. :)

Yea I've heard that thye GN cars are faster. That's sad in such a way as back when I raced in the 80's the use of Alcohol was allowed for sprints and modifieds along with the tune pipes. There was no way a GN car could come close to lap times either of those classes back then.
I've been out of 1/4 scales for along time so I'm not real sure why The rules committee changed the rules as they are. Maybe someone can fill me in on this and the purpose behind it.

I do agree if the sprints are to represent the world of Outlaws then open it up so they can run a more of an outlaw type class.
I'd suggest tune pipe, or larger carbs or the larger engine as you mentioned. Also go back to allowing Alcohol for a fuel option. After all this class and the modifieds are suppose to be an open class.

Guess I stirred the pot now......

James

I agree with you. Here is a form that you can print out and send in. If enough of the racers make the same suggestion, I can pretty much guarantee the rule will change. You may even be able to get it done before the season starts (no guarantee there), but worth a try....

http://www.qsac.org/pdfs/2008/2009%20QSAC%20Suggestions.pdf

Ok I just filled out the form and returned it to you and Scott,

This is what I like to see changed for sprints:

#1 Do away with the restrictor plate
#2 Allow Alcohol to be run as a fuel
#3 Allow a larger carb such as the 813 or of the like.
#4 Allow the use of Tune Pipes provided they are available for anyone to purchase them other words no self built or one of a kind pipes. pretty much follow under the impact rules has to be available for all to purchase.

This is pretty simple and I'd think we wouldn't need a larger engine if we can get the majority of those above passed if not then as an option allow the bigger engine.

I hope the rest of you guys that runs this class would also take the time to fill this form out and get it submitted. If we really want to be faster then we need this.
Now I know I'm a nobody in this hobby and I've yet to seen a name of anyone I remember (with exception of Roger Newell) from 10+ yrs ago when I did race the sportsman class. I'm all for keeping it simple and the less rules we have the more fun it'll be. But as mentioned when a 30# car gets around the track quicker than one that weighs 22#'s something just isn't right there. I remember the days back when the GN ran pipes and the sportsman the stock muffler. The Sprints and outlaws ran pipes and alky. One yr when the NCS was in Noel MO i remember Roger Newell racing his erector Mod car with alky and was the car to beat. He took top qualifying spot hands down and pretty much anyone racing this class was racing for 2nd place providing Roger finished. Sometihng happened and Roger got loose out of turn 2 and crashed his car and was done so now 1st place was open to all. Not always the fastest wins but those cars ran like they are known for "super fast" I may be wrong but he was the only one running alcohol so I'm going to assume thats why he was so much faster than the rest. I do have this on tape as well and maybe I should sit down and replay those yrs.

Anyhow guys I hope you also send in a request for a bit of change for the sprints I don't see any outlaws running anymore so it be uselss to politic for that class as well.

James

I would love to see those tapes your referring to. I will pay you to make me some copies, especially if it has supers and outlaws running. Those are my two favorite classes. I would love to see the outlaw class come back but I doubt that will EVER happen. But I am going to fill out the form for the sprinters. One of the big reasons the stock cars are faster is because of the independent rears which I think should be eliminated if we're supposed to be running realistic cars. Whens the last time you seen a nascar have independent rears in them? I know it makes the cars faster and easier to drive but I wish I knew why they ever decided to do away with solid rear axles in the first place. Plus you would eliminate alot of money off the back of the cars.

I'll need to look and find them and hope they are of some good. I don't have a way of recording them though but if they are in good shape I'll see if I can get what I have duplicated and just send you one.

As for the independant rears. They do help in setup and make the cars handle better but..... Back when there were 3 of us running down to Montgomery AL every mos we would take our solid axle racos down there and come home in 1st, 2nd and 3rd place at ea race. I'm sure those guys hated seeing us pull up but oh well. This was back again when you could run foams as well and we used them on the inside. I have to say that Raco was one of the best handling cars I had ever driven and it would respond w/o going wildly out of control at pretty much any move you did. Sighs I sure wish I could get my hands on another one of those sidwinders with plenty parts to spare.

James

First I will address the restrictor plate deal. As of 2008 ALL cars will have a mandatory plate as described for each particular class. This is NOT an effort to slow anyone down or force you to buy a new piece of equipment. It has to do with the parts issue from our motor manufacture. This is addressed on the QSAC web site. Updated today 12-02-07.
Now as for the fuel issue: Alcohol was banned for a safety reason. One you can NOT see an alcohol fire. Sprints were the only class that it was allowed in and we run fine on gas. Made track fuel easier to control at NCS races and now racers did not have to carry it ( alcohol) on their trailers. All cars run the same fuel at NCS races anyway.
Tuned pipes were allowed ONLY on the 1.5hp. motors, NOT the older 2hp versions or the 230rc. Cost is a big reason for doing away with the tuned pipes. With the demand virtually gone for the tuned pipe the cost would have soared. A good 1/5 scale tuned pipe can run $300.00 and up.
Tuned pipes just are not needed in the sprint cars as they can be a handful as they are. It was many years before QSAC has had a viable sprint car class after 1996 you could hardly find a sprint car anywhere out side of the west coast and possibly Iowa. We now have a growing class with a stable set of rules that offer good racing. Some people I see racing have a difficult time controlling the stock cars let alone an open wheel car where rubbin ain't racin it's an accident that just happened. We go pretty darn fast for what we have now. The older cars were just to fragile noway the cars of old would take the punishment we dish out to them today. As for a 30# stock car being faster than the sprints, you have to consider that todays sprint cars are weighing in at around 25 lbs. and up. I have seen some as high as 28 lbs. Therefore the weight difference is not really a big factor. Then again you have wider front tires in a stock car aids in getting thru the turns, you also have independant suspension all around on the stock car. I don't know of any stock car class in U.S. racing (ARCA, Nextel cup) that has that type of suspension. Put a straight axle in the stock cars and we will see where the speeds and times go. Also the sprint cars have that big airdam we call a wing, necessary for a sprint car as we do not have the down force generated by a full body with a 3 inch spoiler.
Would I like to see sprinters turing times like the Grand national class, yes. there are some guys in the sprint class that are doing that now, and some sprinters are running faster than some of the grand national cars, not all but some.
I hope this answers some of the questions you all had. If not I'll try again.
Fred

First I will address the restrictor plate deal. As of 2008 ALL cars will have a mandatory plate as described for each particular class. This is NOT an effort to slow anyone down or force you to buy a new piece of equipment. It has to do with the parts issue from our motor manufacture. This is addressed on the QSAC web site.
Now as for the fuel issue: Alcohol was banned for a safety reason. One you can NOT see an alcohol fire. Sprints were the only class that it was allowed in and we run fine on gas. Made track fuel easier to control at NCS races and now racers did not have to carry it on there trailers. All cars run the same fuel.
Tuned pipes were allowed ONLY on the 1.5hp. motors. NOT the 230rc. Cost is a big reason for doing away with the tuned pipes. With the demand virtually gone for the3 tuned pipe the cost would have soared. A good 1/5 scale pipe can run $300.00 and up.
Tuned pipes just are not needed in the sprint cars as they can be a handful as they are. It was many years before QSAC has had a viable sprint car class. The cars of old would not take the punishment we dish out to them today. As for a 30# stock car being faster than the sprints, you have to consider that todays sprint cars are weighing in at around 25 lbs. and up. I have seen some as high as 28 lbs. Therefore the weight difference is not really a big factor. Then again you have wider front tires in a stock car, you also have independant suspension all around on the stock car. I don't know of any stock car class in US racing that has that type of suspension. Put a straight axle in the stock cars and we will see where the speeds and times go. Also the sprint cars have that big airdam we call a wing, necessary for a sprint car as we do not have the down force generated by a full body with a 3 inch spoiler.
Would I like to see sprinters turing times like the Grand national class, yes. there are some guys in the sprint class that are doing that now.
I hope this answers some of the questions you all had.
Fred


Hi Fred,


Thanks for the info. The point being made by me and others is with the restricted rules for sprints it takes some away from what the class is based off of. As for Alcohol fires not being seen yes this is so but at the events I attended where it was ran and allowed not one time was there an incident with running alcohol. Also it's cheaper over the race gas and the flashpoint for alky compared to gas is higher as well. We've ran alcohol and still do with nito methane in our RC boats and to my knowledge there has never been a fire in those classes either. So in all reality it's as safe if not safer than gas.
As for cost of a pipe at 300.00 There are manufacturers out there (quickdraw for one) I'm sure can build and provide pipes for us for far less.
Point is there were things taken away from this class that would be nice to have back so yes we can run lap times faster than the GN class and to get them back to an open class as the class was setup for in the early years. Since the cars are built stronger today than yesteryears then they should be able to handle the speeds they would be capable of.

James

James-

Bring that car of yours to MPR.

I would love to see you harness all of the power of the current engine to the point where you can accelerate up out of the corner without wheel spin.

If you can do that you will have accomplished quite a task. I cannot even imagine what a tuned pipe would be like on an RC230.

Bob Elliott and myself ran in the upper 5.8 second range around the middle of summer on a near perfect weather day. That is absolutely flying around our track; GN, Truck or a Sprinter. I think the Sprinters could run in the lower 5.7 second range, but that is insanely fast.

We would love to have you and your sprint car at our track. This current crop of engines and sprinters have more horsepower than they can ever use.

I am not a proponent of making them faster; they are more than fast enough as it is.

Joe Brooks
:thumbsup:

James:
I said one reason for the ban of Alky was the safety issue. I also stated that with the NCS races it was desirable that all cars run the same fuel. Not in those exact words but that was the message I was trying to relay. That way no one person could get an advantage by having a hotter fuel than anyone else. Heck when the RC230 engine first came into 1/4 scale we, meaning the few sprint car racers we had were denied the use of that motor. Joe is correct about the amount of power these new motors put out. It is an absolutely awesome amount of torque and rpm. I have been on tracks where an older less powerful motor would be a better choice. I have spun my tires at more than one track and I'm talking good track temp and rubber laid down. they are fast as we need them to be. I remember the outlaw class that a few guys like Terry Rae and can't recall names at this point but they ran big carbs, tuned pipes and such and the class died because the up keep was astronomical (sp). the cars were also hard to control. I have a mild pipe on my Mini Cooper (yes its 1/4 scale) and it can be very hard to control when the pipe comes on. Even with soft compound tires and good track conditions.
I really don't think we need more speed than we have. The races are close and thats good.
Fred

Hi Joe,

I plan to make some road trips this summer. Now my main focus will be running dirt but if I hit a dry spell I'll slap on some street tires and hit the asphalt.

I will say this I'm probably far from being one to push for faster cars. This is my first sprint and I've talked to a few people and been reading the rules and listening to others as well. I was just shocked at how much was taken away from the sprints in the rules. I hadn't seen any run on a tarck to really know how fast they are but compared to the GN cars back when I raced the sprints were a faster class and this was even when they had the independant rears. Now alot has changed from back then I see this new compounds for tires for one and less of them which back then you had to pretty much have a tote full of tires and hosts at any given time to be competitive. I'd venture to say some had as much cash tied up in tires as they did there cars. I know I wasn't far off.

Maybe these Sprints can't handle faster speeds who knows then maybe others don't want them faster, what I like to see changed is that option for those whom wish to have that capability if we want it and only way to do that is open the rules up to a true outlaw style class and let em rip.

So where's best place to get the 194 carbs?

James

James:
I have the 194 carb in stock.
Fred

James:
I have the 194 carb in stock.
Fred


Fred,

Just sent you an e-mail

James

James, you are correct in that some of the all out creativity that the sport had "back in the day" has been lost. I would also call those days the "pioneering" days for what we have now which is more "refinement". Absolutely everything; tires, engines, shocks, drive train effieciency, suspension geometry, durability, handling, driveability, and especially speed, of the cars today is far superior to what "used to be" run. Back in 95 or 96 I remember going up to Hideaway Speedway in Isanti, MN to watch guys I new from 1/10 racing (Roger Newell, Wes Hatton, Eric Condit) race at a NCS Event. Bob Moore had some bad ass outlaw cars that ripped around that place. Sometimes lap times were as low as 6.4 seconds. Jump ahead to this summer and my 8.5mm Sportsman car runs 5.8s... 5.9s if I am eating a sandwich at the same time.

As far as Sprints being slower than stockcars...thats not always the case anymore. With more Sprints running the last few years comes more competition. With more competition comes more speed. Next year the entire field will be faster yet. When you get out there & run I think you will be pleasantly suprised.

I remember when I had gotten mine out for the first time I thought man these are slow but then I started running with more cars and thing happen faster then you can react many of times. The way it is now you run track fuel and there is no question as to what the next guy is running in his fuel. The main reason I got into this (1/4 scale) is because of the tight tech and rules. So lets keep it fast an simple.. I agree with FRED... :thumbsup:

Hey a quick question FRED what do I need to do to a 194 for the winter to keep it ready for spring???

I just pump all the fuel out.
Fred

Is the 194 the sportsman carb?Will they still be legal next year?

Chuck

The 194 is the GN carb. but with the Sportsman adapter it will be legel to run in the sportsman class. The 115 is the 8.5 sportsman carb. and it to will be legel but you still will run the same adapter. Chuck have you guys been on the track after we sealed it yet?

No we haven't been back Jeff.Have any of you run on it yet?So i will still be able to run the 8.5 carb next year?

Thank's,Chuck

I going to go one warm weekend and make a few laps. Ron has been running up there and he likes it better. The 8.5 will be legel with the new adapter plate.

No GN here to much body work LOL I run sprints.

in GN the body has to be somewhat realistic looking. nobody said we were nascar in 1/4 and chassis had to be like a full size nascar. im amazed at how many cars i see weekly on race day, that can't keep from losing the rear end and spin out. they wouldn't finish a race with straight axle.

sprints have plenty of power now. over powered to some degree. just sliding front ends. they are what like 8 to 10 pounds lighter then GN ?

im not in favor of a open class. that is one of major draws of 1/4. tight rules that do more then just tech, they help keep cost from getting out of hand.
if a handful want to spend some more money and play , by all means do. run together if you like. but QSAC doesn't need to be a part of it. and you will not see a large class of that either. cost is high enough. that is another draw of 1/4. for those that have taken the plunge. its actually cheaper then the other scales. you can make it expensive it you want. but for the average person, its not bad once you get the car.
tires can cost a bit if you want to give yourself plenty of options. but they aren't too bad considering how long they last. i've got tires i've used several years now.
when i had my sprint, i realized right away is power is not what i need more of.
i noticed i could get really fast once i got it hooked up. what some are looking for is more power in the straight to make up for not getting the thing to perform in and out of corner. basicly a crutch.

I would really like to see how prices could get out of hand. Have you seen the prices of the 1/5 scales guys are running. There are large numbers of these cars out there and they're spending $3500.00 plus for these cars. How can pipe and maybe a larger motor (260rc) get the prices out of hand. You have people running cracker cars that cost $2000.00 and it isnt even assembled, or have tires and a body. Plus the average racer can't even buy one. What sence does that make. I would love to see the outlaw clas come back. I would be the first to sign up.

As far as straight axle cars that makes no sence at all. The sprinters have straight axles and we somehow get them to hook up. The stock cars would run fine with a straight axle. And talk about money think about how much money you take off the back of a car when you figure 6 hiems jionts three track bars, dog bone, recievers/axles for the dogbone.

As far as these cars being like real cars. That is what 1/4 scale started on. The cars had to look as realistic as possible. Driver figures, window nets etc. So yes someone at some point said they had to be like real cars. But for some reason they got away from that.

Also as far as a "crutch" I dont care how much power you have you can get it to hook up. I race 1/10 scale custom works latemodels, They are extreme in there power but we find a way to hook tham up. Where theres a will there is away.

just my 2 pennies

..........

well considering the person who started this thread is the one who turned it into what "this" is I dont see the problem. BUt I will keep my opinion to myself when I see something I want to comment on if it's not exactly what the topic is. I did'nt realize some poeple take things like going off topic so personal !!!!!!!!

.............

Sorry guys I'm the one that kinda swayed the topic off of the carb as one ? led to another then as i read the rules i saw what looked to be a contradiction on the exhaust for the sprint and thats where it snow balled.

James

:thumbsup: slider, nothing personal, guess It just hit me wrong when I read it.