Saw the previews of the upcoming Tin Man movie coming up on Sunday. It's a remake of the Wizard of Oz.

So what do you think?

I think I'll wait to see it before I comment.

I've been looking forward to this for a long time.
It looks like it will be an interesting take on the story.

And from what I saw on the the sneak-peak show on Sci-Fi it is going to really be cool.

Just as long as it's not like this Michael Jackson abortion:

http://www.broadwaymusicalhome.com/images/wiz.gif

But really, for me, the 1939 version is THE version and they'll still be watching it on the Holodeck in a few hundred years.

" Beehive...BAH! "

Not another classic....

Saw the previews of the upcoming Tin Man movie coming up on Sunday. It's a remake of the Wizard of Oz.Actually, it's been described as a reimagining of The Wizard of Oz. :rolleyes: Given Sci-Fi's track record for "original" films (anyone remember Mansquito?), I'm guessing it won't compare on any level to the '39 version.

NOTHING can compare to the 1939 version. It's just one of those films that does NOT need 're-imagining'.

They ought to just call this current fad of remaking EVERYTHING, 'Un-Imagining'.... That's far more accurate.

( Tin-Mansquito.... now THAT I'd like to see! )

Trying to remake this all-time champion of classic movies is crazy. Even if it is done well, lovers of the original aren't likely to convert. I would rather see filmmakers make a movie about a good story that hasn't already been successfully adapted to film.

THIS is a different critter from the classic musical. It makes no claim whatsoever that it is better or even trying to compete with the classic.

I have joked around in the past (since college, actually) that there should be a new Wizard of Oz that explored the psychological make-ups of the various characters in the book and movie.

In my version, the Tin Man doesn't have a heart meaning he has an inability to be empathetic nor show genuine emotions. The Cowardly Lion is an agoraphobic. The Scarecrow is mentally retarded. Dorothy has amnesia and is homeless.

The liberation of the Land of Oz from the tyranny of the Wicked Witch of the East could take on political connotations relating to the fall of communism in Eastern Europe. Of course, there's still the Wicked Witch of the West (corporate fascism and such) to contend with.

Anyway, I look forward to the new version and just hope that it is fun. :thumbsup:

NOTHING can compare to the 1939 version. It's just one of those films that does NOT need 're-imagining'.Well, I would agree -- except that the source material isn't the 1939 film, guys. It was based on a series of books. It's the same book series used as the source for Tin Man. From the look of things, it will be only slightly less faithful to the source than the Judy Garland film.

Qapla'

SSB

I may get hammered for this, but I enjoyed "Return to Oz" I thought the character design, based on the old illustrations was well conceived and executed. I wished it had taken a "grander" approach to the scenery and design, tho...

Don't forget the George Lucas 'Return to Oz'. All redone, 'to be more true to the book'. It bombed. People wanted to see the same characters.

The commercial does look interesting, if only to see how they changed everything.

Don't forget the George Lucas 'Return to Oz'.That was from Disney; Lucas had nothing to do with it, to my knowledge.

Qapla'

SSB

There were several films based on L. Frank Baum's Oz books before the classic 1939 version. For something really bizarre, check out silent-film comic Larry Semon's 1925 Wizard of Oz, which has almost nothing to do with the book. No modern "re-imagining" of the story could possibly be worse than this curiosity.

Return to Oz has the benefit of being the only film version where Dorothy is close to the correct age!

There were several films based on L. Frank Baum's Oz books before the classic 1939 version. For something really bizarre, check out silent-film comic Larry Semon's 1925 Wizard of Oz, which has almost nothing to do with the book. No modern "re-imagining" of the story could possibly be worse than this curiosity.

L. Frank Baum himself, looking very much like Frank Morgan IIRC, directed some of the silent movie versions of the books very early in the century:

http://www.halcyon.com/piglet/movies.htm

The Wizard of Oz and all the following books set in the Land of Oz have been material ripe for filmmakers for years. The fact that the 1939 MGM musical is beloved by millions should not preclude any other artist from mining the same source material to tell stories.

Filmation made an animated movie sequel which featured Liza Minnelli as the voice of Dorothy.

Disney made the great Return to Oz, which was very faithful to Baum and the 1939 movie, but was a very dark film. Lucas was involved when the director, Walter Murch, got in over his head on the movie. Lucas came in to support Murch for a week or two to get the movie back on track. It was well done, but lacked charm.

One of my favorite retellings of the Wizard of Oz is The Muppet's Wizard of Oz. Funny as hell.

WB did a one hour pilot a few years ago called Lost in Oz, which was a modern retelling of the story, similar to Tin Man. It never aired, but is worth finding a copy and viewing.

A lot has been written about political and economic allegory in the original Oz book. The Emerald City, The Yellow Brick Road, OZ (abbreviation for ounce, as in gold), silver slippers (not ruby, as in the movie). A lot can be made of the personas of a Tin Man, Scarecrow, Lion, Witches and the Wizard. Ultimately creepy is the thought of a group of grown men escorting a lost little girl through a dark forest.

None of the retellings or revisions of the original material can detract from the 1939 musical. That exists in its own world and will always be a shining star. Be there is plenty for room to explore the vast tapestry of Oz and enjoy it! I'm really looking forward to Tin Man.

Steve

Ultimately creepy is the thought of a group of grown men escorting a lost little girl through a dark forest.

Not meaning to argue, Steve, but merely to bring up an interesting point regarding the "grown men" characters:

The Tin Man is neuter (presumably literally in his case if you recall the story of how he came into existence) as is the Scarecrow (he's made of straw, after all :freak: ) and the Cowardly Lion is an animal.

I'd say that they were all "safe," protective characters as far as Dorothy is concerned. :thumbsup:

None of them will ever touch the greatness that is ZARDOZ!!!

Not meaning to argue, Steve, but merely to bring up an interesting point regarding the "grown men" characters:

The Tin Man is neuter (presumably literally in his case if you recall the story of how he came into existence) as is the Scarecrow (he's made of straw, after all :freak: ) and the Cowardly Lion is an animal.

I'd say that they were all "safe" protective, characters as far as Dorothy is concerned. :thumbsup:

Actually, The Cowardly Lion is gay - at least in the '39 version.

Actually, The Cowardly Lion is gay - at least in the '39 version.

We don't actually know that. It could just be that his father was very weak and didn't provide an adequate male role model for him to learn from. Add to that a domineering mother and . . . well--okay, you're right! Never mind!

None of them will ever touch the greatness that is ZARDOZ!!!

:eek: I just knew someone was going to bring that stinker up! :p

We don't actually know that. It could just be that his father was very weak and didn't provide an adequate male role model for him to learn from. Add to that a domineering mother and . . . well--okay, you're right! Never mind!

Its all in the lyrics:

Yeh, it's sad, believe me, Missy, When you're born to be a sissy
Without the vim and verve.
But I could show my prowess, be a lion not a mou-ess
If I only had the nerve.
I'm afraid there's no denyin' I'm just a dandy lion,
A fate I don't deserve.
I'd be brave as a blizzard....
Tin Man
I'd be gentle as a lizard....
Scarecrow
I'd be clever as a gizzard....
Dorothy
If the Wizard is a Wizard who will serve.
Scarecrow
Then I'm sure to get a brain,
Tin Man
a heart,
Dorothy
a home,
Lion
Da' noive!

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/5/50/200px-Cowardly_Lion.jpg

I do love Zardoz. :)

On a side note, Bert Lahr's biography, Notes on a Cowardly Lion, is a fantastic book that vividly details working in vaudeville and on Broadway in the early part of the century. It's a world of entertainment long gone, but populated by the great entertainers of the era. Many of them would go on to stardom in radio and film. It was a different world back then.

Steve

I recently worked on an on-line training presentation on "Courage" for managers. As long as I got stuck doing the voice-over as well as putting the dern thing together, I made the closing slide with a still of the cowardly lion, and closed with my Burt Lahr impression: "CUH-rage. Rrrrrrrrrrwoof! Rrrrrrrwoof!"

The company training manager appreciated to humor, but made me change it. :(

Its all in the lyrics:

Yeh, it's sad, believe me, Missy, When you're born to be a sissy
Without the vim and verve.
But I could show my prowess, be a lion not a mou-ess
If I only had the nerve.
I'm afraid there's no denyin' I'm just a dandy lion,
A fate I don't deserve.
I'd be brave as a blizzard....
Tin Man
I'd be gentle as a lizard....
Scarecrow
I'd be clever as a gizzard....
Dorothy
If the Wizard is a Wizard who will serve.
Scarecrow
Then I'm sure to get a brain,
Tin Man
a heart,
Dorothy
a home,
Lion
Da' noive!

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/5/50/200px-Cowardly_Lion.jpg


Verbage and the meaning of words in our society has changed a lot in the last 50+ years. Sissy can mean something other than gay such as "coward".

Doris Day once was a star in the movie "The Gay Housewife". the word "gay" means "happy" in the context of that movie. Today, if we saw Doris Day in a movie called "The Gay Housewife", the audience would be expecting her to bed with another woman.

And Christmas songs too. Don we now our gay apparel Fa La la FaLAla la la la.

But it's changing again. To most of the people I meet, gay means 'substandard or shoddy'. 'They didn't fix my car. That's gay'.

Verbage and the meaning of words in our society has changed a lot in the last 50+ years. Sissy can mean something other than gay such as "coward".

Doris Day once was a star in the movie "The Gay Housewife". the word "gay" means "happy" in the context of that movie. Today, if we saw Doris Day in a movie called "The Gay Housewife", the audience would be expecting her to bed with another woman.

All true, but that doesn't mean he isn't gay. Next time you watch the movie - pay attention especially to Lahr's hilarious delivery of the word "dandy" in the song. Gay stereotypes existed before 1950. So did gay humor. That humor exists in the lyrics and it exists in Lahr's performance. Nothing wrong with that.

All true, but that doesn't mean he isn't gay. Next time you watch the movie - pay attention especially to Lahr's hilarious delivery of the word "dandy" in the song. Gay stereotypes existed before 1950. So did gay humor. That humor exists in the lyrics and it exists in Lahr's performance. Nothing wrong with that.

You may be right. Check out the man/man team :eek: that wrote a lot of the songs for the movie. Maybe not but sure makes you wonder. :confused:

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/5/50/200px-Cowardly_Lion.jpg

I hate to think where this conversation would have gone if they'd put a pink bow on him...

This start of this thread misinformed me that the Tin Man movie is a remake of The Wizard of Oz movie. I'm okay with sequel and prequel movies based on other "Wonderful Wizard of Oz" related stories.

After Frank Baum wrote "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz", he wrote another 13 books that were related to original Oz story that described the history before and after the first book. My son was on a Wizard of Oz reading kick a few years ago and one of the books he brought home from the library was the Tin Woodman of Oz. I'm thinking that the movie is based on this book.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Tin_woodman_cover.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Tin_woodman_cover.jpg)

The Tin Woodman of Oz is the twelfth Land of Oz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Oz) book written by L. Frank Baum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Frank_Baum) and was originally published on May 13 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_13), 1918 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_in_literature). The Tin Woodman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_Woodman) is unexpectedly reunited with his Munchkin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchkin) sweetheart Nimmie Amee from the days when he was flesh and blood. This was a backstory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backstory) from The Wizard of Oz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wonderful_Wizard_of_Oz).

Here's a link to a list of the 14 original Frank Baum books and another 25+ Oz books that other authors wrote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Oz_books

^Probably not, since the whole cast of characters from the main story is there, including Dorothy and Toto.

But it's not a remake of the 1939 movie, it's a new movie version of Baum's book. People are allowed to make new movie versions of source material that somebody else made a movie version of.

I liked Zardoz. (recording tin man too)

A number of promos and clips of "Tin Man" are up on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrvLciXUvpA&feature=related

IMHO, this is already looking like a complete piece of garbage.

John P,

I saw the ad for the Tinman on the back of the variety magazine that my wife gets. If it's another rehash of the same story, I wonder why it's called the Tinman: Journey Beyond the Yellow Brick Road. It reminds me of that Elton John song, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road.

In the books, the Tin Man becomes the ruler of the Witch's castle and surrounding areas after the wicked witch is killed. Also, in the ad, the Tinman is not made of tin. Instead, he looks more like Indiana Jones. This suggests that he hasn't run into the Witch that cut his body parts up yet.

We'll see what this is about tonight, for better or for worse.

Roland

So far it feels like an incomplete idea. Like the storyboard for the actual movie. Can't... stay... awa...

The music at times sounded like the Stargate theme.

I lasted about 5 minutes.

I started watching it for about an hour, but gradually got busy doing other stuff that was more important. I don't know why I got so worked up about this movie.

It's inoffensive.
The witch is hot as heck! I'll keep watching just to watch her lips :lol:

The music at time sounded like the Stargate theme.
Ya know, this was my thought exactly. This miniseries reminds me of the Stargate episode "The Quest" I believe where the group, Vala's daughter, and Bal are all wandering around looking for the Red Jewel. Finding the home under the ice was the first discovery.

I started watching it for about an hour, but gradually got busy doing other stuff that was more important. I don't know why I got so worked up about this movie.

It didn't really start to get good until after the first half hour passed. It'll be on again Monday night before part 2

I should have known that the sci fi channel would try to turn the Wizard of Oz into somthing like science fiction. The Sorceress and Dorothy are both beautiful. Other than that, I can take it or leave it... I have a test to study for and a research project due which take prededence. Best wishes on the series. Mabey they'll turn this into a weekly series if people like it.

I've only seen parts of the first part of "Tin Man" - but what I saw, I liked. The first hour is rather slow, but things really pick up in the second half.

Let's face it - the whole "OZ" concept is pretty freakin' trippy. This series is having fun with that aspect. On that note, I love the 40s Ford box truck.

I should have known that the sci fi channel would try to turn the Wizard of Oz into somthing like science fiction. The Sorceress and Dorothy are both beautiful. Other than that, I can take it or leave it... I have a test to study for and a research project due which take prededence. Best wishes on the series. Mabey they'll turn this into a weekly series if people like it.

Agreed, why can't they make some good miniseries that will appeal to a wider SciFi audience. I would love to see miniseries made for :

The Forever War novel by Joe Haldeman,
Ringworld
Foundation
The Number of the Beast by Robert Heinlien

Agreed, why can't they make some good miniseries that will appeal to a wider SciFi audience.
This thing got SciFi's its best ratings ever ...
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6509280.html
somehow I dinna think the muckety-mucks are sweatin' 'bout "wider" auds ... at least with regard to this project.

What I like about this mini series is that it seems to be the "anti Flash Gordon" or "anti Galactica"

FG and BSG have been rightly slammed for taking the names of old properties and telling stories that have little resemblence to the source material (Razor's Cylons not withstanding)

Tin Man is different in that you can tell what the references are but they go out of their way not to use the old names (Tin Man not withstanding )

Everytime they get too close to using an exact term, they veer off. My favorite (next to the fields of the "pa-payas" was Azkadellia's line..."well if it isn't the great and terrible Blah, Blah, Blah..."

The Classic OZ survived "the Wiz" it can survive this, too.

D.G.? D.G? I wonder what her initials stand for!
:freak:

This thing got SciFi's its best ratings ever ...
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6509280.html
somehow I dinna think the muckety-mucks are sweatin' 'bout "wider" auds ... at least with regard to this project.

In a way, your link proves my point. The article proves that SciFi fans are desperately hungry for something new and different. it refers to the channel having high ratings during the showing of Steven Spielbergs's Taken series. Then lower ratings with the usual cheap repeats until Tin Man comes along.

Just imaging what the ratings would be if they turned out miniseries based on popular Hugo winning Novels like the ones I mentioned.