We are Nearly finished with our Bullseye Stock Car Chassis, Just need to add bumpers,Sway bar and Radio Gear .....Pretty much All Components made in house on CNC Machinery,

We went with the Standup Motor design just to be different than all the new Models out + we don't feel there is any advantage in the lay down design and feel these are easier to work on,(I know this will be debated and thats OK :D ) Motor and Clutch housing come out together as 1 piece.........

I will let it be known that we basically copied the Lightning Suspension geometry some new style, some old Style and added our own touch so to speak as far as the look of the Frame, Upper and Lower A-Arms,Trailing Arms........

We will be testing as a GN car in the next week or so and go from there...

Feel free to let us know what you think.......

Bullseye Website (http://www.bullseye.9f.com)

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n70/cnccustom/pic1.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n70/cnccustom/pic3.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n70/cnccustom/pic2.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n70/cnccustom/pic4.jpg

nice car! Welded or brazed?

Could you post a couple Pics of bottom of chassis. Thanks.

nice car! Welded or brazed?

This 1st one was Brazed but the Final Product will be Welded....

Could you post a couple Pics of bottom of chassis. Thanks.

I will have to do that tomorrow, the car is at the shop,

I will take some pics in the Morning and post them Tomorrow evening

Nice Car looks like a cross between a Pro1 and a Lightning. Very nice looking car

Nice Car looks like a cross between a Pro1 and a Lightning. Very nice looking car

Curious...

What looks like the Pro1 on it......We have never seen one out here on the West Coast

The open top rails look alot like the pro1 car. very nice when removing the engine.

Ok.....Yes Makes it Nice to get in there and Remove everything at once when you have a tear down........ :thumbsup:

shock mounts look a little on the flimsy side just my oppion other than that great

shock mounts look a little on the flimsy side just my oppion other than that great



After Some Testing the Chromoly Towers are Stronger than the Lightning Towers

Looks pretty good Brian. I have a suggestion for the front shock towers if you are interested. I put gussets on all of our cars and they work well and look good too. I can email you some pics if you would like.


Chance Overholt

Ok please do Chance......would like to see them

btbates1@yahoo.com

car looks good yes i would agree about putting some gussets on the front shock mounts they tend to bend forward and backwards if you hit something good besides that it looks kinda like a lightning nothing wrong with that i like the idea of taking out whole motor with clutchbell in one piece alot easier than taking bell housing off and trying to twist and turn to get motor out .looks good . good job what kind of steering rack are you gonna use. thats the only thing that i dont like on lightnings there good when new but after that your always tightning it up than loosening it up from binding need better racks with some kind of bearing or better sliding material.i like gram cracker ones .just wondering what rack you were gonna use .good luck with car

car looks good yes i would agree about putting some gussets on the front shock mounts they tend to bend forward and backwards if you hit something good besides that it looks kinda like a lightning nothing wrong with that i like the idea of taking out whole motor with clutchbell in one piece alot easier than taking bell housing off and trying to twist and turn to get motor out .looks good . good job what kind of steering rack are you gonna use. thats the only thing that i dont like on lightnings there good when new but after that your always tightning it up than loosening it up from binding need better racks with some kind of bearing or better sliding material.i like gram cracker ones .just wondering what rack you were gonna use .good luck with car

Thanks.....Yes the Gusset idea is a good one

We made our own Steering Rack on the same concept of the Lightning but alittle bit different........ Been using it for years in our own cars with good results........

I like the Bearing idea though and will run that by them.......Thanks

Very nice car. But like several others car manufacturers. Those whimpy rear trail arm's. I personally love the way wcm has theres reinforced. that is a big Plus. I always wondered if they were made out of 6061 instead of 7075 if that would help.

looks very nice. i see pro1 and lightning mix as well. i dont' think the trailing arms
are that big an issue. unless you plan on wreaking alot. i don't and have only bent one in 5 years of racing a pro1. and i fixed it later on and still use it.
would like to see more pics of the car as well.

looks very nice. i see pro1 and lightning mix as well. i dont' think the trailing arms are that big an issue. unless you plan on wreaking alot. i don't and have only bent one in 5 years of racing a pro1. and i fixed it later on and still use it. would like to see more pics of the car as well.

I too see a Pro1 & Lightning mix as well. It looks nice though. I have only bent one trailing arm since 2003. Remember, bending the arm is better than pulling the trailing arm mount completely out.

Could you post a couple Pics of bottom of chassis. Thanks.

Ok here is a Pic of the bottom....

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n70/cnccustom/BULLSEYE002.jpg

We have been racing Lightnings since Terry Rae was making them some 10-12 years ago and I can only Recall bending 1 trailing arm During that time , plus we went with Big a Radius on the Cutouts to hopefully help with the Guys that do bend them... all of our aluminum is 6061......also in that time we have never bent a shock tower but I have seen it happen several times and we will add Gussets to the next car......

This one is strickly for Testing as we know we will be changing things up some..

We finished it up Today....

Also this design will accommodate a Laydown Motor if one so Chooses

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n70/cnccustom/BULLSEYE005.jpg

cnccustom. Thanks for bottom pics. Real nice

Is the servo mount for Brake/throttle for a 1/4 scale servo?

Also do the trailing arms have 2 mounting holes on top, and 2 on the bottom of arm for the links? Thanks Paul

Yes throttle servo is cutout for a 1/4 scale servo....The only way to go here, To much Wear and Tear on a Small Throttle Servo, ...Years ago lightning tried the small Servo's for throttle and it didn't last long before it was changed to a 1/4 scale Servo.....

Only 4 rods in back.. 1 top 1 bottom Both sides........


Next Chassis will have a few more cross braces in the bottom of Frame for added Strength

.........

I know they only have 4 rods. My ? is how many positions the rods can be put in on each trail arm. I hope this make sense.

cnccustom. click on my gallery and you will see the extra holes for more positions of links.

I know they only have 4 rods. My ? is how many positions the rods can be put in on each trail arm. I hope this make sense.

cnccustom. click on my gallery and you will see the extra holes for more positions of links.

Ok....I see , only 1 position on the Arms,

On the Bullseye (Lightning) we set the rods for a certain Camber Gain with this adjustment and never have to move them (up or down) ever again.....

Has worked well this way for Years.....

Do you actually use all that adjustment on these Cars from Track to Track

At times yes? easy tuning tool. have used different holes between heats to free up car etc.
Just something to maybe consider. I personally like them that way.

Interesting......... I think I might make a set like that and try it on our test car and see the effects.....Just a simple Program change to the CNC Mill

Thanks for the tip.... :thumbsup:

I was going to tell you one other thing Brian. I weld on .028-.060 wall 4130 molly tubing for a living. It is not a very well known fact that the strongest way to weld that kind of material is mig (wire feed). Most people automatically assume that tig welding is the way to go. It is stronger because it uses less heat and has a smaller heat-effected zone. Heat burns out the carbon content of the material which is the alloy that makes steel somewhat ductile. Thats why 70S2 filler rod is used, to put carbon back into it. It is kind of hard to explain. Basically the less heat you can put in, the better. Brazing is absolutely the worst way to weld thin tubing, especially molly. If you notice chassis failures on wcm's they generally break right next to the weld because the tubing got too hot and became brittle. Lightnings on the other hand as Im sure you have seen, bend and hardly ever break. It all depends on what you want to do. As a welder and racer I suggest wire feeding the chassis with 70S2 filler.

The other thing I was going suggest is not to worry so much about getting camber gain out of the right rear tire. Although putting a lot of angle in the upper link in the right rear creates camber gain, it also brings the roll-center way over to the right especially as the cars suspension is compressed. The more the roll center is to the right, the more body roll you will get and the more weight (pressure) will get put on the tire. If you guys are interested in talking about playing with roll centers let me know. I wouldnt mind helping. I am actually just getting ready to design a chassis myself! I wish I had some of the toys (tools) you guys have !


Chance

Chance ..email me your phone # and I will have my Brother Call you.... He is the one that will be doing the welding....

We have been Discussing alot on Roll Center and I am sure he will want to talk to you some

I just program and run the CNC Mill


Thanks............... :thumbsup:

btbates1@yahoo.com

Chance,

I always thought that tig was better because the argon gas will allow the metal to cool without the contaminets going back into the metal. That is if you allow the gas to stay on the weld point until cool. More time counsuming but a better weld than wire.

I'm not a welder, but i've done some reading and talked to several people that build racecars. Wire may be faster, but hearder to control, at least for a amature like myself. Please let me know what your thoughts are.

Ok Jim be ready for a novel! LOL. In the aplication of welding on most all quarterscale chassis, most all tubing is made of .035- .049 tubing. Compared to most aplications this is a very thin walled tubing. Because of that, acheving penetration with welds is not too dificult. On most aplications the reason wire feeding is not used is because you cannot achieve the same amount of penetration as tig. On applications of say somewhere around .100 wall thickness tubing, penetration becomes more of an issue and tig becomes more effective. As I said in the last post, the amount of heat put into the material is huge. When larger material is used, heat is distributed a lot more evenly and the content of the alloys is changed quite a bit less. If you have brazTed or tig welded on thin molly tubing before, you will have noticed the material turning to a light gray color around the worked on area. This gray stuff is caused from the carbon being burned out of the material. No gas can help this, it is just a natural thing that occurs when heat is applied. The carbon content in mild steel is what makes mild steel more ductile than molly. The carbon content in molly is replaced with chrome and mollybdinum which ultimately strengthens the material. That being said, when the carbon content of a weld joint is significantly lost due to excessive heat, it makes the material right next to the weld very brittle compared to the surrounding material. This is why a filler that is most commonly used for mild steel is used in this case, to try and add some carbon content back to the joint. Dont get me wrong, mig welding still burns out carbon but it is quite a bit less because it doesnt use nearly as much heat. Most people are unaware of these facts including most weldors. I build piper cub type planes for a living and the fuselages are made of all .035 -.049 round tubing. We mig weld the entire thing. We have done quite a few tests for the FAA to prove these facts. Unless someone is absolutely horrible at welding, no matter whether it is a mig, tig, or braze, the material will always fail before weld. Therefore the idea is to keep the material as strong as we can. I hope this helps, if you want I can delve into this a bit deeper but Im sure I bored you enough!


Chance

what size wire do you suggest and I have a century 150 amp mig welder. What speed and heat should I start with? I have tried to weld before and it either looks like bird turd or burns through the tube. When I get a good weld, it looks big.

Chance,

Thank you very much, that clears up alot. I see what you are saying, and yes have seen the results of the metal getting too hot durring the weld process. The weld is fine, and the failure is on the material.

If I understand this correctly, you would recomend Mig (stick) even over wire feed, if not for the thin wall of the tubing? Mig does seem to transfer more heat than wire feed.

what size wire do you suggest and I have a century 150 amp mig welder. What speed and heat should I start with? I have tried to weld before and it either looks like bird turd or burns through the tube. When I get a good weld, it looks big.


Heat and size of wire varies on thickness of the steel you use.

On the thin tubing used in these cars you want a small dia wire as you can find for your welder. As for the heat the smaller dia wire used the less heat needed to melt the wire into the tubing. At one time I had seen some .025 wire not sure if it's still available or not. If you can find .025 wire start out around 80-90 amps and adjust the wire speed until you get a good crisp cracklin sound. Also find some sheet metal or some scrap tubing of same thickness as you're going to build a chassis with and just practice away. Watch the color of the metal as well once it gets a real bright reddish orange you're fixin to blow thru. Learn to work the trigger in bursts on thin stuff as well. If you're good at bursts you can crank the heat and wire feed up a tad and make some nice weld joints doing this as well.

James

Chance,

Thank you very much, that clears up alot. I see what you are saying, and yes have seen the results of the metal getting too hot durring the weld process. The weld is fine, and the failure is on the material.

If I understand this correctly, you would recomend Mig (stick) even over wire feed, if not for the thin wall of the tubing? Mig does seem to transfer more heat than wire feed.

Mig welding = Gas Metal Arc Welding (GMAW) is frequently referred to as MIG welding. MIG welding is a commonly used high deposition rate welding process. Wire is continuously fed from a spool. MIG welding is therefore referred to as a semiautomatic welding process.

The primary shielding gasses used are:

Argon
Argon - 1 to 5% Oxygen
Argon - 3 to 25% CO2
Argon/Helium
CO2 is also used in its pure form in some MIG welding processes. However, in some applications the presence of CO2 in the shielding gas may adversely affect the mechanical properties of the weld.

MIG Welding Benefits
All position capability
Higher deposition rates than SMAW
Less operator skill required
Long welds can be made without starts and stops
Minimal post weld cleaning is required


Tig welding = Gas Tungsten Arc Welding (GTAW) is frequently referred to as TIG welding. TIG welding is a commonly used high quality welding process. TIG welding has become a popular choice of welding processes when high quality, precision welding is required.
In TIG welding an arc is formed between a nonconsumable tungsten electrode and the metal being welded. Gas is fed through the torch to shield the electrode and molten weld pool. If filler wire is used, it is added to the weld pool separately

Shielding Gases
Argon
Argon + Hydrogen
Argon/Helium
Helium is generally added to increase heat input (increase welding speed or weld penetration). Hydrogen will result in cleaner looking welds and also increase heat input, however, Hydrogen may promote porosity or hydrogen cracking.


TIG Welding Benefits
Superior quality welds
Welds can be made with or without filler metal
Precise control of welding variables (heat)
Free of spatter
Low distortion

Hope this helps you guys

James

I was going to tell you one other thing Brian. I weld on .028-.060 wall 4130 molly tubing for a living. It is not a very well known fact that the strongest way to weld that kind of material is mig (wire feed). Most people automatically assume that tig welding is the way to go. It is stronger because it uses less heat and has a smaller heat-effected zone. Heat burns out the carbon content of the material which is the alloy that makes steel somewhat ductile. Thats why 70S2 filler rod is used, to put carbon back into it. It is kind of hard to explain. Basically the less heat you can put in, the better. Brazing is absolutely the worst way to weld thin tubing, especially molly. If you notice chassis failures on wcm's they generally break right next to the weld because the tubing got too hot and became brittle. Lightnings on the other hand as Im sure you have seen, bend and hardly ever break. It all depends on what you want to do. As a welder and racer I suggest wire feeding the chassis with 70S2 filler.

The other thing I was going suggest is not to worry so much about getting camber gain out of the right rear tire. Although putting a lot of angle in the upper link in the right rear creates camber gain, it also brings the roll-center way over to the right especially as the cars suspension is compressed. The more the roll center is to the right, the more body roll you will get and the more weight (pressure) will get put on the tire. If you guys are interested in talking about playing with roll centers let me know. I wouldnt mind helping. I am actually just getting ready to design a chassis myself! I wish I had some of the toys (tools) you guys have !


Chance
You can repair a cracked chassis. But it is hard to get a bend out of a chassis. Just my 2 cents worth. I run all of them and all are good cars. WCM, Pro1, and Lightning. It like Ford, Chevy, and Dodge. Different strokes for different folks.

Mig welding is the technical name for what is commonly called wire feeding. So no I would never touch a chassis with a stick welder. As far the correct wire I would suggest .023 wire which they do still make. You will most likely have to purchase a new tip to accomidate this but someone already gave the reason for that. It does burn with less heat. I cant tell you where to run your welder as far as settings. The best way I have found is to basically stack a bunch of tacks next to eachother, hitting the trigger in short bursts. The only thing I can suggest is getting scrap pieces to practice on.

Jeff, the problem is if you have two identical joints with one being brazed and the other wire fed, the one that is brazed will always break before the other bends. I have straightened quite a few chassis and it is fairly easy. Lightnings are vulnrable to bending but hardly ever break. I am currently working on designing a chassis that all lightning components will bolt right on to and the chassis should be stronger but lighter at the same time. I have made all tubes and components with a purpose. I will have some pics soon up of the ROCKIT Chassis. Let me be clear about one thing however. For my own personal chassis I will Tig weld it, only because it uses less filler, looks better, and I rarely crash hard enough for that to become an issue. I say that mig welding is the way to go from the standpoint of a manufacturer for durability reasons. Tig is worse than mig from a durability standpoint but not nearly as bad as brazing. If anyone has some serious questions or anything just give me a call. The reason I feel so passionately about this is I litterally deal with this stuff every day.

I say that mig welding is the way to go from the standpoint of a manufacturer for durability reasons. Tig is worse than mig from a durability standpoint but not nearly as bad as brazing. If anyone has some serious questions or anything just give me a call. The reason I feel so passionately about this is I litterally deal with this stuff every day.


I have to ask what makes you think a Tig weld is less durable than a Mig weld?


James

Read my previous posts. It puts less heat into the material. This is about the only situation where mig is the preferred way to go because of how thin the wall is of the tube. If the material was thicker and penetration was an issue, tig would be the way to go. Hope this helps, I delve into it a bit deeper in my previous posts.

Ok I won't get in a debate but i will say this and say it as fact with working and testing structure designs and strength test with weld joints and with riveted seams and bond of composites.

The prefer method of high strength joints for thin tubing is Tig welding. A tig welded joint will hold an extra 4000-6000 PSI over a mig welded joint on thin wall tubing.
We run these tests daily and providing all is equaled with proper penetration and min Porosity in the welds a Tig joint is the choice for durabilty and strength of pressure, vibration and a pull test and all these tests are performed under the ASME guidelines and NDT (non destructive testing) and BPVC (Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code)
Our Welding Processes are (SMAW, GMAW, FCAW, GTAW, SAW etc.

If by any means a tig wekd fails before a mig weld is at fault of the setup and process.

James

I dont want to get into a debate either. I can tell you I went to college for and have an AAS degree in welding which includes metalergy. In most aplications TIG is the way to go, believe me I know, I have done the tests and gotten the certs. Most all things that ASME and AWS covers deals with structural and pipe welding where multiple passes are required. However, with this material it is for a fact opposite. We did the tests a number of times in order to approve mig for the FAA. Im not sure what kind of material you work with but if it is high strength structures, I would assume it is not 4130 structures? This is litterally the exact material I use every day. In the case of a mild steel stucture, the heat affected zone may not be an issue because the material would bend much before break anyways. However in the case of 4130, when you take out the carbon of a joint, you make it way too brittle. But like I said before, this is not a very well known fact. This is probably the only case where it would be prefered. Im not trying to debate but welding is my life, I went to school for it and deal with this material every day. In fact its getting pretty old! I dont expect everyone to agree with this because at first I didnt either! Almost all companies that build plane fuselages like my company either tig or braze theirs and were quite shell-shocked to learn of our findings. We had to document everything for the FAA in the form of tensile, compression, vibration, and shear tests. Believe me I know if you have any form of knowledge of welding it is kind of hard to believe but trust me!

I can only give my knowledge of welding and the effects composition of gases heat and thru out many yrs as a consultant in materials, failure analysis, metallurgical, welding, and forensic engineering fields.

Maybe you know more than I do.

In studies and tests for high pressure applications 4130 steels have been used for air and hydraulics actuators for aircraft produced by Boeing, Lockheed, Airbus,Mcdonnell Douglas, and NASA.

The Acceptance Criteria and Alternate Acceptance Criteria consists of

Liquid Penetrant Testing

Magnetic Particle Testing

Radiographic Inspection

Ultrasonic Inspection


My credentials would be:

HONORS

Graduated Magna Cum Laude
Tau Beta Pi (Engineering)
Alpha Sigma Mu (Materials Science and Engineering)

LICENSE

Registered Professional Engineer State of Tennessee

INDUSTRIAL EXPERIENCE

• Failure analysis • Gas turbine engine components
• Oil and gas pipe lines • Welding and weld evaluation
•Mechanical testing • Forensic documentation
• Ships • Weld procedure qualification
• Heat treatment • Nondestructive evaluation
• Quality assurance audits • Metallurgical engineering
• Aircraft / Aerospace • Fracture mechanics evaluation
• Pharmaceutical plants • Food service industry
• Petrochemical plants • Materials selection & processing



PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE

Acted as metallurgical and welding technical consultant to corporate engineering and construction fabrication facilities worldwide. Conducted metallurgical failure analyses of ships, industrial equipment, as well as oil and gas transmission pipe lines. Established welding procedures and provided technical direction for mechanical and nondestructive testing of weldments. Evaluated welding consumables and automated welding equipment. Developed welding procedures for both pipelines and offshore structure construction. Performed mechanical testing and metallurgical evaluation of offshore structures and pipelines. Responsible for dye penetrant, magnetic particle, ultrasonic, and radiographic inspection of offshore structures and pipelines. Responsible for characterizing and optimizing metallurgical and mechanical properties for the prototype flash butt welding project. This also included enhancing the mechanical properties and nondestructive inspection capability of flash butt welds.

Provided technical leadership for failure analysis, fracture mechanics assessment, welding, nondestructive inspection and testing. Developed welding procedure qualifications for critical welds including attachment points for aircraft stores. Provided expertise and technical support in evaluation and selection of materials, welding, heat treatment, soldering, brazing, plating and surface coatings, mechanical testing, materials and process design changes, manufacturing engineering, metallurgical processing, and related areas. Problem identification and solutions for failures, stress corrosion cracking, fatigue, dissimilar metal corrosion, galling, wear, weld cracking, and evaluation of various weldment or component defects effects on remaining useful life. Served as consultant and worked closely with customer and contractors’ engineering representatives. Nondestructive inspection of aircraft and aircraft stores, including radiographic, ultrasonic, magnetic particle, fluorescent particle, dye penetrant, visual and eddy current inspection of components. Evaluated and solved material problems on castings, forgings, powder metals, weldments, fiber reinforced metal matrix composites, polymeric materials, fiber reinforced polymer matrix composites, electronic boards and solder joints of aerospace and ground support equipment. Developed alternatives to materials and processing procedure issues in production, and maintenance. Fracture mechanics analysis of critical airframe components and weldments.

Managed division's heat treatment facilities, and metallurgical analysis laboratory, as well as dimensional and nondestructive inspection staff. Developed welding procedures and heat treatment procedures for titanium, stainless steel and nickel base super alloy components for jet engines. Project assignments included enhancing brazing, thermal spraying, forming, electrodischarge machining and chemical milling of components. Acted as technical liaison with customers’ engineering representatives to assure product met metallurgical requirements for aircraft engine components. Conducted metallurgical failure analyses and acted as metallurgical consultant for the corporation.

Characterized material properties of adhesives, polymers, and metallic materials at the Corporate Materials Research and Development Division. Evaluated metallic and nonmetallic materials for use in wide range of manufactured components produced at multiple plant sites.


I will say for the application of this hobby, Mig welding will be far more than enough in tensil strength, for it's purpose. That and the fact one can weld 3 frames to 1 over Tig welding which would of course add man hrs to these chassis and cost to the final product.


Anyhow glad I'm not only Geek here.

Time for bed for me.

James

LOL. It all goes to the same old different strokes saying! I wasnt trying to discredit you by any means. I can only offer my knowledge and advice through my experience in dealing with this material quite a bit. I dont believe that tig welding is a bad way to weld the chassis by any means. Brazing definately is. The simple fact is that mig welding is easier, more affordable for the hobbiest, and more than strong enough. It puts in less heat, and therefor has a smaller heat affected zone and in my opinion stronger for this application. I am however glad that some of the confusing things I said made sense to someone! I will mig almost everything on the chassis I am designing right now. Some areas wil require tig however.

Chance

Very informative Chance ,I know who I want to fly with LOL.Let me know when your chassis is ready for a preview. You know you should learn to cut and paste.
Bill

LOL. Yes I should copy and paste a bit more! I am actually going to talk to the Q.A. department when I go back to work on monday and see if they can release some photos and or documentation of the tests we did. Keep in mind that no matter whether you braze,tig, or mig a joint with this kind of material the material will ALWAYS fail before the weld itself. Therefore the process that hurts the material itself the least is theoretically the way to go. As I said before, there are always different strokes for different folks. I will try to post a 3d model pic when we are finished designing it. I am hoping to have the first chassis done by the first of the year. For the most part Lightning suspension will bolt right on.


Chance

Thank you Chance and Dasher!!!!

You guys ROCK. This is all great information and will help the average hobbiest ask the right questions and know the right answer before making the purchase. The can make an informed decision.

Thank you Chance and Dasher!!!!

You guys ROCK. This is all great information and will help the average hobbiest ask the right questions and know the right answer before making the purchase. The can make an informed decision.


Just remember Mig,Tig, or Brazed wont affect the Handling or Performance of a Car.

and all cars will bend if you hit hard enough ....

WCM (Brazed) and Lightning (Tig) Both have Good Track Records.....

i like brazed because i can do it and its very strong

They wont convince me either ,I am not worried about my chassis being brazed .. I have had several different types of Qscale cars ,And my first year of racing ,I sure tore them up , Here are sum instances of what happened and what bought me to the chassis that I race now .
2005 LIGHTINING in a racing incident bent the chassis at the rear motor plate, layed it over 1/4 inch, And they wanted a bunch of money for a new one .
2004 pro 1 sprint car broke the weld and chassis at the front bumper point it was very difficult to repair and cost me ,had to take it to a welding shop he had to splice in a piece of chrome moly , not only did the weld tear but the chassis tore too :freak:
2006 WCM sprint car got stuffed in to the wall [hard]at the NWN , and it bent the front bumper and pulled the front,top bar out of the weld ,no broken chassis just a pulled weld it was easy enough for me to repair[ not a pro welder ] just a guy that can weld a little there was a bent front cross bar but it was easy enough to fix .
The chassis that I run now should be bent and broke but it is [ NOT ] it is straight and no pulled welds .What did you guys call it oh yea A TANK , the car has been in some serious flips Sorry # 24 for bending two of your lighting tailing arms , Was spun on the back straight and got drove through by # 24 and he broke the front bumper channel, upper left hiem joint, bent shock tower, bent shock , pushed back left side aluminum bumper pod , :(
So my testing has come up with some different results as yours ,, Brazed aint bad just tuff :wave: Robert

As I said before, different strokes Bob. Some people cant weld other than brazing and that will definately work. I just got on here to give Brian a suggestion for welding their new chassis. Brazing will work but it is not technically the preffered way to go in my opinion, thats all I am saying. I have the equipment, skills, and know-how to use any process and i am going to wire feed for the reasons I posted previously. I wasnt knocking WCMs down, just stating my opinion on the way chassis are welded because that is what I do for a living. Keep selling more cars Bob, we need all we can get!