When should we expect that brushless motors other that NOVAK will be permitted to be used in oval racing? I understand and agree with the one manufacturer as we have started up brushless oval racing. It appears brushless is getting a broad base amoung oval racers, when should be begin to permit other mfgs product to be used?

Simple answer: NEVER!! :wave:

I can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how we as racers see it. adding more motor manufactures would to me would be getting things back to the brushed motor days where you had to have 20 different motors just to compete at times, on the other hand I can see where it would not be fair to the other maufactures to be able to get involved into oval and take part of the profit from it.. But keeping it at one maufacture I think keeps it more equalize and fair and more comepetive for all racers, When a racers thinks he has to go out and buy all these motors just to keep up, then we just went back to the brushed motor days, With just one manufacture involved it give's you the racer more of a chance to work on car setup NOT ON MOTOR'S.... just my 2cents

JP

if the price of the motors can go from $90 to $30 then thats the only way it should be allowd. notice the prices of BL motors going up latly rather then down? thats the only downside of having 1 motor manufacturer. MONOPOLY! on the racing end of it though i think its probly better for now.

Motor prices going UP? I haven't really seen this, but since the price of EVERYTHING is going up...the price of a motor shouldn't really be any different.

BUY Gasoline lately? How about a Loaf of Bread or gallon of Milk?

Here in Calif. I'm paying 3.47 a gallon THIS week for Gas, a loaf of bread is near $3.00 a loaf, and Milk is almost $4.00 a gallon...and all those prices cut into my RC money.

Here's an idea... How about somebody contact NOVAK and see if they can buy in BULK and 'Fine Tune' a NOVAK motor and slap their label sticker on it. Maybe add a different color center collar..and matching spiral wrap around the sensor wires. Then NOVAK can become the new TRINITY/EPIC of the Brushless motor world.

I always found it funny that we could show up at a race and 99% of the racers were running a TRINITY/EPIC motor with 100 different labels on them...and racers thought the motors were "DIFFERENT" from one another.

My take on the one motor deal is simple. Novak stepped up and created motors for us to run and then did it again for us to run with LiPo batteries. They took our testing to heart and actually listened to what we wanted and gave it to us. They deserve our support and allowing other companies to come in and take a piece of their pie would be wrong of us.

As I have stated before; oval racing sales are not enough for manufacturers to get very excited about. So, let the other companies sell their motors to off road and TC’s etc. it’s not going to make or break them not to sell to the oval racer.

As for the pricing, the same thing holds true, we are a small part of there sales so if they are able to cut prices it will be based on their total sales which is made up of all the different parts of RC racing and the oval section will play a very small part of that demographic.

Plus, as Joe said, we were a one motor company with brushed motors with everyone running Trinity motors of one sort or another (except for modified) so this is not a new concept.

I always found it funny that we could show up at a race and 99% of the racers were running a TRINITY/EPIC motor with 100 different labels on them...and racers thought the motors were "DIFFERENT" from one another.

I always thought the funny part was that they paid 50% more for the label. Then after two runs you rebuild the thing anyway and it's no different then a $20 epic teardown would have been in the first place.

Novak only for BL motors. I have yet to see any good reason to allow anything else.

it is unfortunate but most likely true, novaks in like flint for oval. Brushless is still shake'n itself out as a technology so i understand to limit it to one brand because nothing else is equal in performance but i think its being handled the wrong way by the BRL. Instead of use'n the novak systems as a blueprint they are use'n them as a crutch. Today it wouldnt make any diffrence as novak is really the only choice but that will change in the next few months. Instead of being open to testing these new options compared to the novak blueprint they will not even give them consideration for no other reason i can see than its easy this way and we as racers are forced to buy products down to the part number to play in there sandbox. It looks like ARCOR is going to do the same even tho its in transition and whos to say how it will work out.

How its all being handled has shy'd me away from getting back into oval. I may run 4cell spec but thats it untill something changes. Even the illusion of choice we had with epics was better than the blatant branding thats happening now and at least with 4 cell spec its a cheap date.

I don't think we need another BL motor MFG. Epic brushed motors were fine for all of us for many years why should BL be any different. Why would a single motor mfg keep you out of oval? The BRL is doing things the right way. Keeping control of what is allowed is making the chassis setup the most important speed secret.

TnxRacer,

The problem is...you now have YOUR reason for staying away from OVAL...as do ALL the other people who can find a reason to STAY AWAY and blame something for it.

Where a lot of the guys I race with simply say..."Just so long as I know what the rules are...I'll be there to RACE~" They are the TRUE Oval Race lovers...and find a million and one ways TO race.

it is unfortunate but most likely true, novaks in like flint for oval. Brushless is still shake'n itself out as a technology so i understand to limit it to one brand because nothing else is equal in performance but i think its being handled the wrong way by the BRL. Instead of use'n the novak systems as a blueprint they are use'n them as a crutch. Today it wouldnt make any diffrence as novak is really the only choice but that will change in the next few months. Instead of being open to testing these new options compared to the novak blueprint they will not even give them consideration for no other reason i can see than its easy this way and we as racers are forced to buy products down to the part number to play in there sandbox. It looks like ARCOR is going to do the same even tho its in transition and whos to say how it will work out.

How its all being handled has shy'd me away from getting back into oval. I may run 4cell spec but thats it untill something changes. Even the illusion of choice we had with epics was better than the blatant branding thats happening now and at least with 4 cell spec its a cheap date.you should probably stay with the spec for that reason (it's cheap). i know not everyone is going to agree with what the brl and probably arcor are doing but it keeps the field on an even keel this way and if somebody doesn't agree with it they don't have to run it or they could start there own deal and run it as they like it. i'm afraid the cost would get real high with a motor of the month deal though which might turn alot of people away.

you should probably stay with the spec for that reason (it's cheap). i know not everyone is going to agree with what the brl and probably arcor are doing but it keeps the field on an even keel this way and if somebody doesn't agree with it they don't have to run it or they could start there own deal and run it as they like it. i'm afraid the cost would get real high with a motor of the month deal though which might turn alot of people away.

The motor of the month you are talking about is brought about by those want something slower or to use with lipo's. Novak is only responding to there cutomers.

TnxRacer, I find it interesting that you say that you will stay with 4 cell Spec racing until the whole brushless thing is worked out. That is a true one manufacture class, Trinity motors and Trinity batteries.

Yeah. what McLin said. LOL

The motor of the month you are talking about is brought about by those want something slower or to use with lipo's. Novak is only responding to there cutomers.


Ken,

I think the 'motor of the week/month deal he was referring to is what would happen if we allow ANY and ALL Brushless Mfg's in the sandbox. WHO KNOWS how many motors would come into play...

McLin - My thoughts exactly on the SPEC deal - it's ok for SPEC but NOT Ok if it's NOT Trinity?

Anyone out there can start the "LRP" B/L Series, the "Tekin" B/L series, the "Mamba" B/L seriers... Curious to see how much help they will give you to get started!!!

Just my .02

don't open that pandoras box fellas!

all of the newer brushless motors will have gmmicks.

lighter
different rotor size
built in fans
built in heat sinks
hand wound
claims of being faster

oval heads will always buy newer/lighter/stronger/faster if allowed...

why bother when we can all run the same motor?

please leave the other motors for the on-road nerds

I concur!Simple answer: NEVER!! :wave:

Sorry for putting all the debate ammo in my above post. I guess iv just grown to stubborn for brushless oval and expect at least a chance at a alternative to any brand for the cost of brushless racing. I'll stick to spec for my oval fix and satisfy my brushless desire elsewhere.

I'll sum up my earlier post and trouble you no further.

Simple answer: Novak is going to be the only motor mfg allowed in brushless oval for the forseeable future(at least in BRL) because its easy to do it that way. Otherwise competing mfg's would be considered, tested for approval to the rules/competitive balance and allowed or denied based on the findings.

Sorry for putting all the debate ammo in my above post. I guess iv just grown to stubborn for brushless oval and expect at least a chance at a alternative to any brand for the cost of brushless racing. I'll stick to spec for my oval fix and satisfy my brushless desire elsewhere.

I'll sum up my earlier post and trouble you no further.

Simple answer: Novak is going to be the only motor mfg allowed in brushless oval for the forseeable future(at least in BRL) because its easy to do it that way. Otherwise competing mfg's would be considered, tested for approval to the rules/competitive balance and allowed or denied based on the findings.

The part you are missing is the part where the racers don't want a choice on motor and the BRL isn't a sanctioning body but a series!

Sonny gets it more right than wrong so :thumbsup: to the BRL!

I really do not see any sense in the "cost" argument at all...? If you are starting out getting set up to run in a brushless class is MUCH cheaper than any spec class I have seen, you can NEVER get by with ONE motor and then you have to get all that other "stuff", brushes, springs, lathe, brush cutter etc., etc....some of the people I know in the BRL series (finished in the top ten) have been using the same motor for TWO seasons, only cleaning and oiling....and they havent had to buy the "motor of the month" ..... the only reason I can think of to want to change is an afiliation with another manufacturer ? IMO KEEP IT NOVAK !

in mich. were running a spec class this yr. it consists of spec tires, batterys and a spec motor or 13.5 novak motor old style with the small bearing. so far its worked out great.

Today it wouldnt make any diffrence as novak is really the only choice but that will change in the next few months. Instead of being open to testing these new options compared to the novak blueprint they will not even give them consideration for no other reason i can see than its easy this way and we as racers are forced to buy products down to the part number to play in there sandbox. It looks like ARCOR is going to do the same even tho its in transition and whos to say how it will work out.

How much sponsorship has LRP or Orion or Speedpassion or Trinity put up for the BRL series. That's the biggest reason it is a "novak" only motor series. Have you even touched an LRP or Orion motor? They feel considerably different. Though i have heard they are the "same" on the track. If they were more than one option you would have 2 or 3 brands in your box because that's the way racers are. if you are a racer.

I wouldn't normally get in on a deal like this, but exactly how much sponsorship support would you expect from a Trinity, Orion, Lrp, etc. if products they market are not allowed in that given series?

I race in a series that allows Novak equipment only as well (South West Tour) and that is o.k. I have confomed to the rules as needed to compete. While I don't long for the free for all days we had when oval racing was huge, I still wish we could have some diversity of products. The only real thing I think that prevents this is that manufactures cant leave well enough alone.

Brand loyalty is a big deal, and manufacture's like to sing there praises to all to increase sales. Just like the 99% trinity motor deal, do we not have basicly the same thing with battery's? Lots of matchers names out there, but all IB 4200's, or now EP4200's. People will buy what wins, even though it is esentially the same as another one.

Sorry for being off topic alittle, and the rambling, but it is what it is.

Brad

i tested the 13.5 lrp a little bit and lap times are very close..but they weigh alot less..less weight =better.better = must buy.must buy= more cost. so you allow lrp today...now i want tekin legal and orion..soonit's every man for himself and his poor wallet takes a hit.

my question is this....

outside of product loyalty and just trying to start a fire...

why do you need to buy more motors? why do you need an lrp motor to be legal? who the hell cares what motor we need to run as long as we all have the same motor? why the need to spend money on other motors?

Eventually I see 10.5 as maybe the new modified and allowing many motors - Tekin, Trinity, LRP, Checkpoint, Orion and of course Novak. Sportsman might be kept to one brand. Time will tell.

i would like to see things change. maybe have a pro 10.5 class with a open 10.5 rule or something along the line of keeping one brand of motor for a class like Tekin 10.5 novake 13.5 lrp 17.5 etc...

We have too many BL classes now.

We have too many BL classes now.

once brushed racing goes alway we won't lol

we have plenty of brushless class dave,

lipo 21.5
lipo 17.5
21.5
17.5
13.5
10.5
open mod

let the other guys showcase there one off brushless motors in mod.

trust me after this past weekend I am not convinced a single manufactor is the best way to go.

What's going to happen this weekend?

sorry meant this past weekend

Originally Posted by KenBajdek
We have too many BL classes now

Was looking at the results from the Racer's Haven DIRT OVAL NATIONALS held last weekend. *(I believe there was like 160 entries) and 13 classes

Everything you can imagine from 1/18th scale electric to 1/8th NITRO

This race is always well attended...and it's cool they have so much to offer SO many interests.

Dave, what happen this last weekend? Other than I finihed last in the 13.5 "B".

Alos I see the the Snowbirds 4 cell mod will be brushed and brushless in 1 class.

dave had a bum 10.5 novak motor. ran good for 3 minutes and quits. but let's not bad mouth novak. only IB

dave had a bum 10.5 novak motor. ran good for 3 minutes and quits. but let's not bad mouth novak. only IB


QUIT? I'm curious, try the motor in another car and see if it does the same thing...with a different speed control...

I had a 10.5 that would quit after about 1 minute, (STUPID ME - had the ESC in LIPO mode - LRP - ) Drove me freakin NUTS!~

The difference is IB won't either give you a replacment pack for free or repair you dead pack for a modest price. :)

dave borrowed one of my new motors in the main and ran 4 minutes of perfect circles. not a esc setting a motor issue.

He could have had an LRP motor run for 3 minutes and quit too.

Its like our economy of R/C racing. Keep one motor legal and it will never grow.

I have been running my E40-10.5T Hacker Brushless motor against the Novak 10.5 week in and week out. The motor doesnt give me any advantage but only a different powerband. If rules are put in place there should be no problem allowing other 10.5 motors. Im sure other Brushless manufactures would love to invest some in oval but its hard when only 1 manufacture is legal.

Im sure other Brushless manufactures would love to invest some in oval but its hard when only 1 manufacture is legal.


hmmm, that's funny...cause I contacted a few (can't say ALL) before I got involved w/ brushless (because I was hoping for multiple mfg's to get on the SAME Page) and the general statement I got was...

"Oval racing is too small of a market, and we are not interested"

funny part of that is...the same basic thing was felt with the 19t motors...and look HOW MANY types of RC use That motor now!! (Or did before Brushless swept the nation)

hey all:Some of my thoughts on this may have already been stated,but here goes anyways.First it may not seem right for one company to have a monopoly,but since novak stepped up to help the oval guys and is trying their best to keep up with the technology of brushless and what us racers want i think thats a good thing.Also i think it's the cost factor of not having to have the motor of the moment just to be competitive.Next i think you should keep the brushed classes for the racers that want it and the brushless for the rest of us.One thing i think should change though is allowing any brand of brushless esc to compete in brushless.Finally it's all about having good close and competitive racing and anything that can be done to make it cheaper to do that is a positive thing for everyone. Thanks :thumbsup:

What about mod? Should they allow different motors or should Novak have the monopoly?

Kyle has been running his 10.5 while everyone else has Novak here in AZ and his motor is the same speed as every other motor.

Raymond

It depends on what you want.

On one hand I can see it being anything does in open mod (actual open mod, not 10.5). I can definitely understand an argument in that direction.

On the other hand if you want open mod to actually grow I think limiting it to one motor manufacturer would help a lot.

I always find it funny that people want "diversity" in a spec class. But when you look at the best racing over the years they are always in spec classes(and i don't mean spec as in street spec) where everyone runs the same motor. Look at what a joke handwound 19t racing was you had a dozen winder that all used 3-5 different teardowns which all had there "place" I ran it a bit and certain motors were better on certain types of tracks or conditions. Heck, when we ran 19t 0 degree the Ti teardowns ruled that class, in open timing 19t, they woudn't get out of the way fast enough.

Do you really want to have to buy 4 or 5 brands of 10.5 motors and thrash and wonder if you have the right one in for that track?

No one complains when boylan says Ultrabirds only or Russell says BYO Co27 for ovalmasters.

Why the big fuss over Novak only 10.5?

I don't have a problem with keeping it @ 1 motor in 10.5 or 13.5 classes. But mod it should be what ever you want as long as you make are within rules. JMO

Raymond

No one complains when boylan says Ultrabirds only or Russell says BYO Co27 for ovalmasters.

Why the big fuss over Novak only 10.5?

Well said Danny ! ........ Exactly what I was thinking .......... I guess its because people still think they are getting beat by motor ? .......i don't get it. If everyone is required to run the same motor then thats fine by me ...... and we also have the samce chance of getting a "bum" motor regardless of manuf.

If any brushless manuf is allowed (with the exception of open mod) for example in 10.5 class, then we're right back in the same position as open 19T, handwound motor of the week type problems .......

We have run ultrabirds only in 19t in florida, while not being the most potent of all 19t motors, everyone had the same thing ..........

no one was complaining about not running reedy or orion 19t's back then, you know why.......because the racing was great....... we all knew we were'nt getting beat by the "frankenstein 19t's".

Do the same with brushless ........ require everyone to use the same power plant......

I get beat in brushless by the same guys that beat me in 19T ........ It has nothing to do with motor ......... its in the damn car........ work on your car and stop lobbying to allow other motors into a spec type class ......... wherever you race, decide on a motor from one of the manuf and run that motor and only that motor ........... if you want open motor rules run the open mod class where anything goes and the wallets are bottomless.

Rich Boehmler