Hey guys just wanted to let everyone know to be very carefull with there battery packs.. i know the risks and pack blowing up stories have been said before, but i think this storey might change your habits..

From now on when i charge my packs i am going to try to set them in a spot that keeps them away from the direction of other racers.. Reason being is a local racer here had a battery blow up this past weekend.. I didnt see it happen, but i heard the bang.. I couldnt belive how loud it was.. Sounded just like a shotgun blast.. Anyway when the cell blew the contents hit the guy right in his chest.. He said it hurt pretty bad.. He ran outside right after it happened, and everyone, even the guys racing stopped to go see if he was ok.. Thankfully he wasnt hurt exept for a pop to the chest..The battery wasnt charging it was just sitting, andi thought he had said he bought the IB4200 pack that day.. I think we all remeber the pics of the IP3800 cell that blew up at nats last year that stuck into the trailor side wall.. Someone could really get hurt bad..

I hope wih the new 4600 series of cells they are safer batteries. I know fluke things happen, but with the stories of blowing cells at races, and we are now dead shorting again, its kinda scarey.. anyhoo i just thought id pass on what happened, and hopefully everyone can try to keep the cells in a safe direction so no one gets hurt..

i have personally not seen or heard a battery blow and i would like to keep it that way. i hope, for the safety of everyone involved with rc, that the batteries from now on are a lot safer.

Like Burbs I was there and the racer that had the cell blow up did not even have it connected to anything. it was just sitting there. I ersonally was only 3 or 4 pit stalls away from him. My concern was not that his chest hurt but whether or no t he got battery stuff in his eyes. I personally am going to start wearing asome clear lens glasses while in the pits. I too hope this SERIOUS issue gets resolved by the manufacturers

I witnessed a very similar incident at the Ovalmasters this weekend. The battery pack was charged, in the car, and the guy was holding his car when the cell blew. It sounded like a shotgun. He wasn't hurt, but he did drop his car very quickly. It was only about 10 feet behind me, and it sounded nasty. One thing to think about with these batteries is that we do abuse them according to battery experts. I had a man from Batteries Plus tell me last week that soldering on the ends of the cells was horrible for them, and I know that the amperage we charge at is too high, and dead shorting can't be good. With all the problems we are starting to have, maybe we should be pro-active and try to prevent an accident. The new lipos can be very dangerous when abused like this, so everyone running them treats them with respect and I personally do not know of any accidents. The only ones I've seen blow were in internet videos of batteries that were way overcharged as an experiment. So with the high capacity of the newest nimh cells, we might want to consider treating them with the same respect the lipo racers do for safety's sake. One of the worst possible things that could happen in r/c racing is an injury. Little racecars are supposed to be safer than big cars.

I would have to agree with Sam but I just don’t see it happening. I can here the screaming now……. “Cut back on my charge amps? That would just KILL my lap times!!!……….But LiPo’s……heck no………those things are dangerous!”

Maybe I can’t see the forest for the trees but for the life of me I just can’t understand why you guys keep hanging on to old school technology, ESPECIALLY when THEY are the ones getting dangerous.

It seems to me that it’s the NiMH’s that need to be put into some type of charging and storage container not the LiPo’s

at every big race that ive run this year its to no suprise a battery blows up, 1 at cinncy brl, a couple in detroit at brl, and a few at the oval masters! its a joke, i try t cover my packs up with a thick rag but all that does is get the cells hotter, i am personally tired of strapping dynamite to my rides, and see n my buds gettn burnt! i charge at 6 amps .02 detect and peak at .01 detect and am parnoid every time i hook the dam things up, what gets me is whats goin to happen to a new racer back yard basher with less sufisticated equip who is less educated and one of these piles of crap blows up on him and really hurts him, ive seen no warning on cell wrap from the manufacture about this, in oppion there should b a recall and everyone gets there $ back! we do it with kids dolls w to much lead in the paint! get it right or dont put it out! lets start over w gp 3300

at every big race that ive run this year its to no suprise a battery blows up, 1 at cinncy brl, a couple in detroit at brl, and a few at the oval masters! its a joke, i try t cover my packs up with a thick rag but all that does is get the cells hotter, i am personally tired of strapping dynamite to my rides, and see n my buds gettn burnt! i charge at 6 amps .02 detect and peak at .01 detect and am parnoid every time i hook the dam things up, what gets me is whats goin to happen to a new racer back yard basher with less sufisticated equip who is less educated and one of these piles of crap blows up on him and really hurts him, ive seen no warning on cell wrap from the manufacture about this, in oppion there should b a recall and everyone gets there $ back! we do it with kids dolls w to much lead in the paint! get it right or dont put it out! lets start over w gp 3300

Actually it happend TWICE in Cincy as well... Matt's blew during the drivers meeting, and Honeycutt had one start to sizzle in his pit***Although he threw it out the door and it blew on the sidewalk.. Im with ya on being paranoid..Heck at CEFX when yours was venting I kind of walked away just in case..

almost as scary as those incidents is the spelling of this thread title lol!!

There seems to be a mass "defection" going on now from the IB's over to the EP's. I'm wondering now with more racers running the EP's if we will start to see those explode ? Or is this really just an IB problem ?? Sorry if this has been posted already, but I haven't heard of any EP's exploding -- just wondering.

its bullcrap and i hate it i race w my little nephews and if they get hurt im goin to come unglued, ive got a couple weeks off so i might just get all new 4600 not ibs just to get away from this crap, when the 1st batch made it to our 1st distributor u cant tell me he didnt have problems with theses cells doin this, but no that $ is more important, that burns my a$$, my safety is more important! thats all im goin to say about it but in the next couple of months we will c, im sure we will hear a story were the results are much worce then were hearn now!

The ones I have seen blow from the positive sides - so when you charge make sure to face the battery sideways and away from eye level. This can help in case of something happening.

There seems to be a mass "defection" going on now from the IB's over to the EP's. I'm wondering now with more racers running the EP's if we will start to see those explode ? Or is this really just an IB problem ?? Sorry if this has been posted already, but I haven't heard of any EP's exploding -- just wondering.

I saw 2 EP cells blow up this past weekend in Columbus... They blew in the middle of a charge..I was standing right next to the guys pit when one went off.. The EP's dont have the BANG!!!! that the IB cells have..But I was still looking for bullet wounds when I heard the first one go... about 30 seconds after the first one went the second one blew up..

I have to agree with muddd....start over with GP 3300's....

I have seen a couple EP's blow up but one was a power supply issue and the other was a long lockout issue.

I agree with C3! I have to remind my boy to point the cells away when charging just in case.

I Always To Try Point Mine At Brian0525 When Charging At 12 Amps

I Always To Try Point Mine At Brian0525 When Charging At 12 Amps
i usually just hook mine to a real car battery and put it under his pit table no luck yet but thet battery has some good punch now lol

Just curious if anyone has any stories of those dreaded Lipo's blowing up? Have been running them here for a year without a SINGLE incident to any of our racers? Have only heard of 1 pack going south (bad internal connection) Saw 1 hooked up backwards that just fryed the connector!

Dan,

We've already had 4 or 5 LIPO failures. (None caught fire, none exploded...just failed)

I believe one of those that went bad this past weekend was due to OVERDISCHARGING or OVERLOADING. It was a 10.5/LIPO combo that was 5-6 teeth overgeared...and it killed both the motor and battery.

Captdan, I have to agree 100%, the question is why do people keep going back to NiMH for more of the same thing when there is something available that is much better.

I Always To Try Point Mine At Brian0525 When Charging At 12 Amps



LMAO! that's good cause I point mine your direction..lol got to do something to slow you down!

I have to agree with muddd....start over with GP 3300's....
I think there would be a lot more people racing today if we were still running those cells.

I ran 3300s this summer in 4 wheel offroad. Never failed to finish a race due to battery failure. Car was as fast as others (not the driver). I bought some new 4200s charged, discharged, trayed and they lost all their punch in just a few cycles; so I went back to 3300s. I still have them but bought LIPO.

Which evil do you perfer?

A sack full of burning LiPo's at your front door or a Pi(Ni)apple shape hand gernade ticking away in your pit space?

LiPo's can be sacked or crucible for safety, but sounds to me that NiMH need to be in a bomb disposal vessel. About 2 months ago at our local track a brand new IB4200 blew up and it was scary loud. The hissing cell was quickly escorted out the door before going off almost in the racers hands.

I just ordered cells to make 7 new packs of EP4600's so wish me luck in the foxhole. Bad enough I had to survive 16 months of intense combat to only get taken down by 1.2 Volts.

i dont understand why we dont stick with GP3300. They can have the same numbers if charged right. A 3300 can have as much punch and power as 4200 or 4600. It all has to do on how you charge it and how you setup your chassie.

Captdan, I have to agree 100%, the question is why do people keep going back to NiMH for more of the same thing when there is something available that is much better.

We still drive the "Old" hotrods and muscle cars, don't we??? Newer is safer there too!!!

A 3300 can have as much punch and power as 4200 or 4600. It all has to do on how you charge it and how you setup your chassie.


WRONG

A 1.18 volt battery will NEVER produce the same PUNCH or POWER as a 1.25 volt battery...that is the biggest reason why we change. When NEW packs come out that don't perform as well as old packs...they fall by the way side. But, when they DO out perform - they are quickly jumped to by EVERYONE who wants to GO FASTER.

Ask why people right now would STILL (even with the volitility) stay with, or buy NEW IB4200's over the IP 4200's or EP 4200's, or even most of the different 4600's?

It's VOLTAGE, VOLTAGE, VOLTAGE.

Now, Eliminate ALL IB4200's and you'll get guys to switch to the new 4600's RIGHT NOW.

Its going to take a lawsuit to get safer batteries. When someone gets seriously hurt maybe the manufactures will wake up. If I were a matcher I'd be hoping that my label wasn't on it when it does happen.

Lipos!! :woohoo:

Nitro is the new electric!! :thumbsup:

ive started to block my batteries with something when i charge them. in europe somewhere they banned racing alltogether until they get new batteries.

Its going to take a lawsuit to get safer batteries. When someone gets seriously hurt maybe the manufactures will wake up. If I were a matcher I'd be hoping that my label wasn't on it when it does happen.

I hope that this doesnt happen but with the way people are now a days it just may. I know of 3 matchers that got out of the battery business in the past month just for this very scary reason.

Hopefully the manufactures will wake up and realize this and make us some safe batteries again!!

EA

The following is a quote from an article that I will be putting up shortly but I felt it would go good here too:

"What is amazing me beyond belief is the joking and nonchalant attitude that racers are taking about this situation and their willingness to keep buying more “hoping” that the next batch will not be as bad!

I have to ask; what would you do if you used these batteries on your job everyday and you had to charge and discharge them in some manner all day long. Do you think you just might be voicing a little bit of concern to your boss or more then that…your UNION! Yet all I hear is something to the effect of “…can’t wait until the new BIGGER batteries are available so I can buy more!"

From what i have heard is due to race organisations, the outer diameter of the cell has to be a certain size.. In order to get maximum voltage out of the battery the inside lining would have to be tinner right? I heard a while back that IB kept the smaller diameter cell, but they made the inside thinner to allow for the similar amount of compound as say a larger diameter cell with a larger outer diameter due to this outer size issue, certain cells were not allowed at certain races due to size.. Maybe we need to get the organisations or large race promoters to allow for a larger outer diameter cell so they can make the insides safer again.. The MAH ratings keep getting higher but the cells stay the same size.. I never undrstood what the big deal was with the cell diameter legality.

Its just like boaring out a engine block.. yeah you get more power from a smaller bock , but is the engine just as solid structurally?

Its pretty scary when i hear people saying venting is normal. To me its a tme bomb..Of course were all going to continue to use them because they are the fast way around the track..

I remember when sanyo was the hot cell.. They wer, safer. But they were not just for rc. they were used for everything from medical products, to cordless drills. it seems since the cells have become r/c only purposed the saftey is dropping..

For those that are a little worried about going to lipo's for safety reasons. I have seen a dead short test done to one and it never blew. I have a friend that has tried blowing up a lipo pack for research reasons, and has been unsuccessful. This has changed my opinion about the lipo packs and have decided to only run lipo and nitro next. I have sold all of my 4200's and equipment. I just hope every one will choose to do the same and get rid of these 4200 bombs before some one gets hurt badly. I would like to thank Mclin for what he has done with lipo/brushless also.

For those that are a little worried about going to lipo's for safety reasons. I have seen a dead short test done to one and it never blew. I have a friend that has tried blowing up a lipo pack for research reasons, and has been unsuccessful. This has changed my opinion about the lipo packs and have decided to only run lipo and nitro next. I have sold all of my 4200's and equipment. I just hope every one will choose to do the same and get rid of these 4200 bombs before some one gets hurt badly. I would like to thank Mclin for what he has done with lipo/brushless also.

I did the same test with a pack of Lipos (7.4 two cells pack).

I dead shorted them, drilled a hole in them.
Even pored water on them, which just through sparks in the air.

Did not catch fire which I was very surprised.

I can say Lipos didn't like the water test.


I'm running lipos and nitro until everyone catches up with the new
technology.. :)

Nitro is the new electric. :thumbsup:

I'm running lipos and nitro until everyone catches up with the new
technology.. :)
RPM....Me too

Wait till a lipo blows up because you know somebody will try to push the envelope down that Avenue.

Wait till a lipo blows up because you know somebody will try to push the envelope down that Avenue.

wait till a NiMh blows a finger off or puts an eye out!

Everything is dangerous and I think the lipo fear is driven more by people who saw a video of someone who made one blow up by cutting it and then charging it in the wrong cell count and so on just to see it flame.

I've had a lipo cell go up in flames and a NiMh cell blow up on me. Neither are good experiences.
The NiMh was operator error (was soldering on euro plugs and clogged up a vent I think) the Lipo just went...the ESC had a cutoff so that wasn't it and the pack was rather well protected in the car. :shrug:
Do have a Carbon Lipo thats still kicking, though.

CBear- What was the brand of the lipo that went up? Thanks for using the right term!

I wish people would stop using the term, 'Blow up". They do smoke and emit flame, but they won't blow up. :)

Why does everone keep using the saying "NIHM's are unsafe" What about GP3300's, GP3700's, or GP4300's, Sounds like we have a few safer choices.....Yes IB's are unsafe but it HAS NOTHING to due with NIHM's.......just the company that makes them..... Bring back GP's They are still out there

This is where we need a racing Org. that has some control, not just we made this rule, because we heard that this guy told that guy....ect...

I think all batteries are unsafe if mistreated.

me21, you’re absolutely right and I have been doing the same thing. It’s not the chemistry of the cell that’s bad, it’s this particular manufacturers “batch” that is causing the problems.

You are also right about “…where are the organizations?” Wake up guys, we have a problem over here!

Burbs has the answer I think for what little I know about these things.......change the rules......make the cells bigger and require a safer wall thickness.

But in the mean time....LET'S GO LIPO..........Sorry.......that was just too easy.

I think all batteries are unsafe if mistreated.

Ding, Ding, Ding...we have a winner!

This is where we need a racing Org. that has some control, not just we made this rule, because we heard that this guy told that guy....ect...


Gezer posted a link to I believe it was Denmark where the organazation banned the IB's. I could'nt find the link. Maybe Gezer can hunt it up.

http://www.redrc.net/2007/11/norwegian-federation-halts-all-ep-racing/

Wait till a lipo blows up because you know somebody will try to push the envelope down that Avenue.

Its impossible for a lipo to "blow up" Now it can swell up, rupture and then catch fire in the worst senario but you will never hear it when it happens.

EA

Burbs has the answer I think for what little I know about these things.......change the rules......make the cells bigger and require a safer wall thickness.

What percentage of cars will that make obsolete? There are already bigger cells. They are called "C" and "D".

Ta Man, again, I'm no battery expert but I would think that we are only talking about a few thousands of an inch, not a whole step up to a full C size.

what i mean by bigger cells, is no that much. roar has a millimeter rating system.. It wont take much to increase the safety of the cells.. Right now think of it as a 3300 case with the insides of a 4200.. With a light mm increase they can be safer.. The slight sizechange will not make any cars obselete.. New cars come out all the time.. Everyone wants lipo trays now, so how hard would it be to change the design of a tray to fit the larger cells.. You can do it with any car just by changing the amount you file the slots.




What percentage of cars will that make obsolete? There are already bigger cells. They are called "C" and "D".

what i mean by bigger cells, is no that much. roar has a millimeter rating system.. It wont take much to increase the safety of the cells.. Right now think of it as a 3300 case with the insides of a 4200.. With a light mm increase they can be safer.. The slight sizechange will not make any cars obselete.. New cars come out all the time.. Everyone wants lipo trays now, so how hard would it be to change the design of a tray to fit the larger cells.. You can do it with any car just by changing the amount you file the slots.
If the problem is trying to cram too much into a fixed amount of space, I don't think that changing the size will make a difference for one simple reason: The cell manufacturers will just use the increased size to increase the internal capacity and thus the mAHr rating. The only way to stop that would be to put a discharge rating limit on brand new cells and have them tested at random to reject lots that don't conform (meaning have too large a capacity). And we know how likely that is.