Just finished my test piece of routed track, as pictured below. I've used a type of wire called "stitching wire" here in Australia (not sure what Americans call it, or if it's available there) and it's pretty close to Tomy dimensions for wire.

I put more details on our local forum (under WA Routed - Test Track 1, last page): http://neophytte.mine.nu/forum/forum.pl?fid=05 but just wanted to show off here ;)

Cheers

Richard

Looks great Neo! Hopefully you'll keep us up to date as you progress.

"Stitcher wire" is used in Binderies for holding documents together. Most magazines and periodicals are sewn with wire. Contrary to the common mis-conception that they are stapled.

I only know this because I was an equipment rigger for Xerox many moons ago. The "jogger-stitcher" was a seperate module that attached to the mainframe. It looked like a giant upside down sewing machine. :cool:

The funny part was that the both the roll being used and the extra rolls were store below in a cabinet like a MIG welder. During transport/removal, if the cabinet was not locked or banded, the door would invariably fly open when crossing a bumpy threshold, or traversing stairs and the heavy, spare rolls would fly out and mash a toe. The veterans would howl with laughter when a rookie came back limping, "You've been jogged!...Do ya need stitches?" A painful right of passage and a valuable lesson for the dum dums who refused to wear proper foot attire. :rolleyes:

I still got a roll of it hanging around somewhere's. I kept it, like one would keep a game ball. It had a big chip out of the plastic spool where it landed on my steel toed boot. Could have been my toe! ;)

Hi Bill, thanks for that - some of us here in W.Aust were wondering what it was and how it was used ... I usually keep my website dedicated to the project up to date (but haven't added this success yet), you can see the progress here: http://routedtrack.hobby-site.com

Cheers

Richard

Richard --

Hello again, and I'm glad to see you working on your track again. I thought we had lost you to your wife <grin>. The 'stitching wire' looks like a good find; please keep us updated on how it works.

I looked for stitching wire vendors in the US last night, and found many of them. I see that stitching wire come in both galvanized and copper-coated versions, along with the plain mild steel. Does anyone have a recommendation on which one to use, or which ones to avoid?

Anyway, good luck on your track, and I'm glad to see you are back.

-- Bill

Hi Bill,

Nah, it's just been damn cold down this way, and a mixture of wife, work and other weekend jobs have kept me busy for a while - I must admit I've been pondering on the 'rail' situation for a while as well, not really happy with the alternatives I had.

I'm pretty happy with the results I've got so far - the next trick will be to finish off that damn test track that has been hanging around the garage for so long; I think it'll be a quick whip around the 4 rail tracks with the router set at the right depth, then add the stitching wire and locking wire. All sounds easy in theory ... just like astro-physics ;)

Looks pretty good so far. Like the lane spacing change I see with some of the curves. Keep 'em coming. :thumbsup: rr

Thanks roadrner - this pic is a view of the overall initial test track I started about a year ago, you can see the ongoing progress at http://routedtrack.hobby-site.com - check the "construction" page!

Cheers

Richard

Neo, looks like a cool track...but do yourself a favor!

Before you put all the time, blood, sweat & tears into measuring, routing, sanding, epoxying (is that a word?) etc. into the track, do a corrosion or "rust" test on the proposed rail material first.

While us slot car phoebes expect slot rails to have some corrosion resistance to them....the manufactures of the stitching (or staple) wire aren't so concerned with this and it often contains scrap or garbage metals) etc.. This works fine for stitching or stapling, but can rust in a heart beat!

Just an FYI......I didn't want you to learn the hard way.

:wave:

-------------------------
www.SlotCarJohnnies.com (http://www.SlotCarJohnnies.com)

SCJ --

Are you speaking from experience, or do you have a generalized concern?

I'm no expert, but I've been looking into stitching wire since Richard posted his message. There appears to be quite a focus on rust prevention in the stitching wires that I've looked at. One manufacturer -- not one of the largest -- sells stitching wire with the following anti-rust approaches:

* Galvanized
* Tinned
* Copper Coated
* Liquor Finish (lacquer?)
* Stainless Steel (lower magnetic downforce)
* Nylon Coated (not good for conductivity, but maybe you could remove the nylon from the top surface, and have rust-free sides)

Most 'stitching wire' is galvanized. I've even seen flat brass stitching wire.

I've run across rust testing for stitching wire on the web. The usual approach appears to by to put 10 short pieces under water. Leave it submerged for 72 hours. Then take it out and inspect wire. If there is any rust, the wire fails. I think that's pretty good.

To test for a slot racing use, file the coating off the top of the wire, and repeat the test.

I want to look at the tinned and the copper coated wires more.

-- Bill

Speaking from experience :cry: .........but I'm not saying it's not doable by any means, only that you need to take precautions.

In fact it's my best guestamation that several of the commercial routed track guys use stitching/staple wire, but if your finding manufactures touting the fact theirs doesn't rust you've proven my point. It can be a problem with this type material so check what your buying.

If you contact the manufacture and ask for a small sample they will probably send it to you for free (or at minimal cost) so you can test it before you buy it! In my track building scenario, the guy I built the track for found copper coated staple wire (not sure from whom) but that's what we built the second track with. Keep in mind, copper will still tarnish (just look in your pocket at a penny) and it is only a coating on most "wire" so in theory it could wear off.


----------------------------------------
www.SlotCarJohnnies.com (http://www.SlotCarJohnnies.com)

Here's a fun fact about the so called copper US penny...
In 1962, the cent's tin content, which was quite small, was removed. That made the metal composition of the cent 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc. The alloy remained 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc until 1982, when the composition was changed to 97.5 percent zinc and 2.5 percent copper (copper-plated zinc). It's now a zinc penny... Raunchy

Here's a fun fact about the so called copper US penny...
In 1962, the cent's tin content, which was quite small, was removed. That made the metal composition of the cent 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc. The alloy remained 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc until 1982, when the composition was changed to 97.5 percent zinc and 2.5 percent copper (copper-plated zinc). It's now a zinc penny... Raunchy

Yeah, some of us older slot hacks remember when they made that "change". :rolleyes:

Richard,
I read through your entire thread. Great.
I have a question - what is locking wire?

Thanks...Joe

Joe --

Let me try fielding this for Richard who is probably sleeping at the moment.

Routed, railed tracks typically have a 1/16" wide rail slot. That's significantly wider than the rail, but 1/16" router bits are about as small as you can find.

'Locking wire', is the individual colored and insulated wires inside of what you and I call 'telephone wire'. Locking wire describes what the wire does when used to make an HO track, not what it is normally called. I know that spools of these wires can be purchased separately, but I have not tried to track them down myself.

The locking wire is used to hold the rail in place inside the over sized slot. The insulated wires are narrow, and create a friction fit with the rail when they are pressed into the slot next to the rail. The locking wire forces the rail against the other side of the slot. However, you also need to glue the lock wire in.

These wires do come in different diameters, so you will need to test a sample of the wire in a slot with a piece of rail before buying.

HO World has a video on installing the lock wire. You can view it here (http://howorld.fsmra.com/archives/promotion/howinternational_track/railing_video.html).

-- Bill

Bill,
Thanks for that explaination. I thought that's what was meant by "locking wire", but I wanted to be sure.

Thanks...Joe

Hi All,

Thanks for your thoughts on "rust testing" - I've cut up an old Life Like 9" curve to do some testing; 2 vials contain a test piece of Stitching Wire and Life Like rail, exposed normally (no water), 2 vials have "stock" Stitching Wire and Life Like rail, and 2 vials have sanded back Stitching Wire and Life Like rail - we've got a hot week coming up with most days in the 40's (Centigrade) so I'm hoping the water will evaporate and cause maximum damage to see what rusts and what doesn't.

Joe - what Bill said was spot on (including the sleeping part!!) :)

I showed the other guys at the Perth slotcar meet, and they were impressed and excited, although the rails are sticking above the surface about 0.8mm and they should be around 0.4mm - but this is a test piece, so I'll be a bit more accurate on the test track (soon!). But first the rust test ...

Cheers

Richard

Hey Neo-


If my math is correct (It's often wrong) we should be five days into the "rust test".....please share the results?


-------------------------
www.SlotCarJohnnies.com

Hi,

Well the good news is that we've had some hot and dry weather down here, just the sort to lead to rust - the water evaporated and I refilled it a day later, I haven't inspected the pieces in detail as I was hoping to run the test until Sunday, but the Life Like track looks a bit worse out of the two; admittedly this was an older piece that had been sat in my study for a while and the other end of the 1/4 9" curve showed signs of rust (this was from an eBay buy that I got for the cars). The stitching wire is showing some deterioration where I sanded it back, but mostly on the flat side rather than the top - but I'll let this run until Sunday and post some pics up.

Cheers

Richard

I vendor I knew once kept boxes of 9" 1/4 curves on his back deck throughout the winter in Delaware. They were either Lifelike or Mattel, I can't remember. The boxes were uncovered, but the deck had a roof on it with three sides open.

After the winter, we were surprised at the lack of rust which seemed to be showing on the rails. The track never got wet, but was exposed to the climate. Doing something along these lines may be a more accurate and telling test than having the pieces sit in water. It is however a much longer time frame and maybe the "water test" is a way to quicken the testing period. However, since most of us do not dunk our track in water...

After all, the real reason for the test is to see how stiching wire holds up under normal conditions. However, if it passes your test, it should be more than good enough for normal conditions.

Joe

After 7 days here are the pics from the rust test. The Life Like track seemed to suffer more, as you can see visible rust on the sanded piece of track.

I also re-routed my test piece and got a better result, I wrote a fairly lengthy report on it in our local forum, so if you're interested please visit:

http://neophytte.mine.nu/forum/forum.pl?fid=05&topic_id=1162044390&page=8

Cheers

Richard

May be I missed it, but what are the dimensions of the stitching wire? Also, what are the specifications, i.e. steel, copper coded, nickel coded, etc? Has anyone here in the states found a supplier?

Rick

Hi Rick,

I may not have posted them here, as I generally keep all the tech stuff on my site, and the postings here are broad overviews - broad flat stitching wire is 2.5mm x 0.5mm, Tomy track is 2.4mm x 0.4mm, so the dimensions are very close. It's a galvanised steel wire, thus the rust tests above.

This is from the website where I ordered the test wire from:


Bekaert Stitching wire - for the printing and book binding industry.

We sell Bekaert stitching wire as it is the highest quality wire due to the superior drawing and coating process - electro alloy plated with tin and zinc added.

We stock thirteen sizes of round, narrow flat and broad flat wire, wound on various spool sizes. Many other types of wires are available for various applications and we ask you to contact us for your particular requirements.

From:

http://www.conpack.com.au/ci/bekaert.htm

And this PDF is a one page overview:

http://www.conpack.com.au/ci/pdf/Stitching_wire.pdf

And you can visit my website to keep an eye on progress:

http://routedtrack.hobby-site.com/

or our local (Perth, Australia) forum:

http://neophytte.mine.nu/forum/

HTH!

Richard

After 14 days:

How well does it work for building racetracks?
After all THAT is the important question.....

Scott

Well, the straight test track is a running example, but at around 40cm it's hard to determine downpull, speed, etc. I've ordered some more stitching wire and this weekend changed the depths of my slots to accept it. Hopefully if the wire arrives this week I should have a working test track to have a play around with.

http://routedtrack.hobby-site.com/html/construction.html

Cheers

Richard

Richard,

Kool stuff....Track building you are. WOW!

Bob...zilla

After 21 days, the wire is starting to show some brown spots (this may also be that the water I used was from a bucket full of mulch!). I've ordered more wire (400 metres, I think that's around 1200ft) so hopefully the test track will be finished this weekend.

Cheers

Richard

Waiting on the wire ...

Damn - got an email earlier today from the supplier saying he'd lost my address, looks like the stitching wire won't be here before xmas :(

Richard

The wire has arrived - hopefully get the test track in a test state this weekend .. yay!!

For anyone interested, I've put a couple of videos on our local forum testing the test track with the stitching wire:

Routed track T-Jet test:

http://neophytte.mine.nu/forum/simpleforum_files/attachments/routed_tj.mov

Tomy Turbo test:

http://neophytte.mine.nu/forum/simpleforum_files/attachments/routed_turbo.mov

There are still a couple of high points in the track that need to be sorted, but it's all working in theory ...

Cheers

Richard

And now both lanes are working with most problems sorted:

http://neophytte.mine.nu/forum/simpleforum_files/attachments/2cars_routed.MOV

This page in our forums goes into details:

http://neophytte.mine.nu/forum/forum.pl?fid=05&topic_id=1162044390&page=9

Cheers

Richard

Having problems with the timing set up; what are other routed track makers using for triggers .. reeds or optical??

Thanks

Richard

Richard,
I continue to follow your progress with great interest.

I noticed on your board you mention the problem you had with the tight turns. One thing I have noticed on my Tyco/Mattel track is that the 6" turns can give you a couple problems if you take them slowly.

The first is that you really need inside borders for a 6" curve. If you enter a 6" curve and do not fishtail at all (go very slow), on some chassis the inside tire will fall off the track. You need to fishtail slightly to keep all four tires on the track.

The second consideration, and something you ran into, is the fact that because of the severe tightness of the 6" curve, it is easy for the shoes to lose contact with the rails. If you fishtail around a 6" curve, you are fine. If you do not (again, take the curve very slowly), the car remains somewhat straight and the shoes can leave the rails while the pin is still in the slot. This is also when the tire can fall off the track.

And thirdly, if you take the curve too slow and do not fishtail, the traction magnets move out from directly over the rails. This has the effect of drastically reducing the magnetic downforce. On the old Aurora Super Magnatration chassis, the traction magnets move far enough off the rails to cause the pickup shoe springs to raise the chassis out of the slot. Without the magnetic downforce, the pickup shoe springs do not compress.

Joe

Thanks for your input Joe, I think my problem was caused by the rail track being about 1.5mm over the width of the rail; I kinda put this down to not compensating for the width of the router bit - but as someone else said - "that's what test tracks are for!".

My routed track is on one sheet, so the need for inner borders isn't an issue yet, however I have found that the paint I used seems to be hell-slippy which means that as a car goes around the bend, if it looses magnetic grip, the tyres don't cling well and it zips into a large degree turn (ie it spins out) and looses electrical conductivity.

I've got some T-Jet's that I've been testing, but they don't work as well as magnet cars, probably for the above reason, and that the T-Jet pickups seem a lot more sensitive to the rail width.

I actually haven't found too much of an issue with the cars de-slotting, generally they spin around or stop from lack of electrical conductivity - I think this is because my guide route was as deep as the router bit would let me go, so they stay on the track quite well.

I seem to remember in another post somewhere you were asking about whether routing a track was cheaper than buying plastic, and I seem to find that it is. This whole test track has cost me less than $au50 so far, with the most expensive part the wood that it sits on (2 sheets @ $au10 each). For anyone that is interested in making their own track I'd suggest for them to go ahead, although I think as a second or replacement track, rather than as a first track.

Cheers

Richard

Richard,
As you mentioned, since this is a routed track, there is no need for borders. The other two issues are still present.

However, as I thought about this some more, it occured to me that it might not be a bad idea to use multiple rails on the small radius curves. Your problem stemmed from not having the rails at the correct width. But as I have discovered, even when they are at the correct width, you can still lose contact with the rail - both pickup shoes and traction magnets. This problem could be alleviated by making the rail wider on the tight curves. That would allow the car to maintain contact with the rails whether you fishtail slightly or take the curve slowly.

Maybe in the case of your routed track, you could use extra pieces of rail rather than the locking wire (plastic sleeve) to hold the rail in the slot on the tight curves. While the extra rail would create more downforce (maybe not a bad thing on tight curves??), it would also be possible to use non-magnetic rail for the extra pieces. Of course, T-Jets wouldn't care one way or the other. And non-magnetic rail would not solve the issue of the traction magnets moving off the main rail.

Just a thought.

Thanks...Joe

Completed track pic attached.

For those that might remember some of my previous status reports on my routed track, I have successfully competed one lane with power rails. I had decided to use the electrican fish tape for power rails. There was a lot of bending and fitting of this tape because of it "springyness". I tested the track successfully with both T Jets and magnatraction. Any of the other magnet cars, did operate so well. May be too much magnetic attraction or the rail height may be too high. But is seems to be working for what I need. I install the power rails on the middle of three lanes. I figured this would be the easiest because there are no real tight curves. Which ever I do next will require either more bending or cutting relief notches in the bottom of the rails for the curves. I did have two spots where the section of MDF top part separated from the bottom and squeezed the guide slot almost closed. I had to wedge the slot open, add a couple of 1/2" brads and even re-rout the guide slot. Hope to move on to another lane shortly.

Rick

Rick, you should stop by Mark's Model World in Canton to look at his latest wood HO track. He used welding wire but I'm sure he'd have some tips and advice about proper rail heights and ways to secure the wire into the grooves.

824 12th Street, Canton, OH 44703
330-588-2167
Tu-Fr: 3-0 pm
Sa-Su: 11am-6pm

Rick P, As you are laying your rails and you come to a tight turn, take something round ( a piece of 3" steel pipe, pvc pipe, etc. ) and prebend your curve by bending the rails around the piece of pipe. Use something round so you will not kink the rails. You'll find if you keep pre-bending the wire, you can create the same radius as your slot. This will take the pressure off the routed slots to keep from breaking them. I used stainless fishtape and it's harder than the regular steel fishtape. Worked for me...just a thought... RM

Rick, you should stop by Mark's Model World in Canton to look at his latest wood HO track. He used welding wire but I'm sure he'd have some tips and advice about proper rail heights and ways to secure the wire into the grooves.

824 12th Street, Canton, OH 44703
330-588-2167
Tu-Fr: 3-0 pm
Sa-Su: 11am-6pm

Edit:...wrong rick :)

Nevermind :p

For those that might remember some of my previous status reports on my routed track, I have successfully competed one lane with power rails.
Rick

Hi Rick,

Long time no hear; do you have any pictures of your track?

Cheers

Richard

Hopefully, attached to this message are a few pictures of my track in progress.


Rick

Hopefully, attached to this message are a few pictures of my track in progress.


Rick
Wow.. looks great.. busy this weekend? :p


Dave

Mate, that looks sweet!!!

Cheers

Richard

:cool:
My 2nd routed HO track is under progress at the moment - rather than repeat everything I'll lead you over to our forums in Perth:

http://neophytte.mine.nu/forum/forum..._id=1201760868

Basically a 2400 x 1200 which is a comprimise between the track I wanted to build and the track the wife doesn't want me to build.

Cheers

Richard

Some new pics at the other forum:

http://neophytte.mine.nu/forum/forum.pl?fid=05&topic_id=1201760868

Next is power rail routing :)

Cheers

Richard

Any suggestions for a name for this track? It was going to be "Marathon Raceways" but that was the name for the bigger track, and I'm umming and ahhing about whether to use it ...

Cheers

Richard

Infinity Raceway?

Jump of Death? (hey, looks like a jump!)

What is marathon or infinity in your wife's native tongue? Give it a little flair.

Neodrome.