DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT CHEMICALS ARE IN PRODUCTS LIKE PARAGON AND THE OTHER SMELLY BRANDS THAT IS MAKING PEOPLE SICK. THE ONLY THING THEY GOT LISTED ON THEIR CAN IS OIL OF WINTER GREEN BUT I DONT THINK THATS WHAT IS MAKING PEOPLE SICK. IS THERE ANOTHER TRACTION COMPOUND OUT THERE THAT WORKS AS GOOD AS PARAGON BUT WITH OUT THE HEADACHES.

I believe there is a chemical M.E.K in Paragon.

I do know that there is zylene in the Niftech tire stuff.

Some where, I had gotten an MSDS for Paragon and there was nothing that would be considered toxic in it.

Different people react differently to compounds. Look at "safe" things like pollen. Some people breathe free and others have trouble breathing even with prescription drugs.

I am fine with Paragon but it's "safe" alternative that we used back a few years was TQ8. That stuff would bother my eyes something fierce.

I beleive methyl salicylate is in paragon with some wintergreen oil, probably has more chemicals in it aswell but you would need to get the msds report, they should be able to provide that info to you.

I beleive methyl salicylate is in paragon with some wintergreen oil, probably has more chemicals in it aswell but you would need to get the msds report, they should be able to provide that info to you.


uhhhhhhhhh uhhhhhhhhhhh hey Beavis (Ken) methyl salicylate is oils of wintergreen. uhhhhhhhhh uuuhhhhhhhhh lol

I emailed paragon about a month ago asking for the MSDS and have gotten nothing...

I emailed paragon about a month ago asking for the MSDS and have gotten nothing...

By LAW they have to have that information avilable upon request, Try agian

I know the law...I deal with that aspect of things every day as an EHS technician for a manufacturing company. If I can find the email address again maybe I will do that and see what happens.

To be honest i think alot of it is in peoples heads.. Im not sure why people have reactions to certain smells, but thats how it is.. I have raced on and off for 20 years.. Paragon has been the compound of choice for 99% of those years.. I have never had any reaction to it..

My wife has a few air freshener sprays, which are non toxic sprays. Some of them give me a headache so bad after i smell them its crazy.. she loves em.. I think it has too do with peoples mindset when the smell is around, and peoples overall sensitivity to smells..
For many years all we had to use was paragon, and i never heard anyone complain.. all of a suddon there is choices, then people start..

uhhhhhhhhh uhhhhhhhhhhh hey Beavis (Ken) methyl salicylate is oils of wintergreen. uhhhhhhhhh uuuhhhhhhhhh lol
funny guy, here is the msds repot un just methyl salicylate, http://www.chemistrystore.com/ChemicalMSDS/MethylSal.pdf
"Synthetic Wintergreen Oil"

Weed Killer opps wrong brand

To be honest i think alot of it is in peoples heads..

Yeah, in the form of a headache... Brilliant response. :rolleyes:

In all honesty, I do sometimes get headaches after a night of racing- and it only started last year (been carpet racing since '89). Bad part is, I'm the type of guy who's painted without a mask, uses brake cleaner to clean my hands, stirs coffee with a screwdriver from the shop...

What I've been able to trace it down to is getting it on my hands. Race one class, be careful not to get the stuff on my hands- good shape, even if the place reaks of wintergreen smell. I can hang a weekend at a track full of the smell, that doesn't bother me. But, if I get a lot on my hands, and/or do a bunch of racing/practicing, then I at times wake up in the middle of the night with a HUGE headache, or at minimum a "Paragon Hangover", where you literally feel hung over. And, yeah, at big races, there's been talks of "Paragon Hangovers" for 20 years. There's a medical report out there in reference to methyl salicylate overdoses as well. Click here to read one such report: http://www.healthline.com/adamcontent/methyl-salicylate-overdose

I still use Paragon, as frankly, there's nothing better out there. Anymore, though, I'm very careful to keep it off my hands (dry towel every run to wipe off the tires, etc...) and quickly wash my hands if I do.

Todd have you tried niftech? Alot of us here have switched, not that it smells any less, just seems to work well for us.

Todd have you tried niftech? Alot of us here have switched, not that it smells any less, just seems to work well for us.

I found in slower classes niftech works awesome.. i like that is does not gum up the tires.. I did hear tho that it breaks down the glue on the carpet ad can damage it. does anyone know where to buy it online?? thanks

Burbs....here's where I get mine.

http://www.russellrc.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=81_84_36&products_id=79

I believe there is a chemical M.E.K in Paragon.

I do know that there is zylene in the Niftech tire stuff.
Stay away form the stuff with zylene in it. If you get the msds on that stuff you will be schocked with what it can do to you. I was in the printing industry and most if not all the inks we used contained that stuff. We were regularly checked for proper handling of this junk. undisturbed ink was checked by a meter at 3 ft. away and the ppm count was way too high for safety. stick with a little headache.

Yeah, in the form of a headache... Brilliant response. :rolleyes:

In all honesty, I do sometimes get headaches after a night of racing- and it only started last year (been carpet racing since '89). Bad part is, I'm the type of guy who's painted without a mask, uses brake cleaner to clean my hands, stirs coffee with a screwdriver from the shop...

I still use Paragon, as frankly, there's nothing better out there. Anymore, though, I'm very careful to keep it off my hands (dry towel every run to wipe off the tires, etc...) and quickly wash my hands if I do.

I,d like to add a little to your comments Todd,

I have a long history with chemical contact/inhalation, in the late 70s, I was a fueling specialist in the military, I then became a GM auto tech for 25 yrs, I,m currently a shop foreman at a GM dealership.
3 yrs ago I began to develop severe skin rashes and some minor breathing problems after several months of doctor/specialist visits$$$$, changing hand cleaners and tracking the multitude of chemicals I come in contact everyday and even chemicals I came in contact many years back it was detemined that no single chemical/compound was at fault. Its the long term exposure to a multitude of chemicals/compounds that was affecting not only my skin and respitory system but also my nervous system.
After almost three years of being very careful with chemical contacts, being very aware of proper ventilation, good safety practices and changing employers twice to get into a position where I am not in constant contact with various chemicals I am just now starting to get over my problems.
I agree Paragon is awesome on carpet and GM Top engine cleaner works wonders on caps ( not picking on these two products theres others that contribute to problems, by the way GM no longer makes their original GM Top eng cleaner )
Just be careful, Good ventilation and either gloves/constant hand cleaning or best of all No skin contact are necessary for good health.
Have Fun racing! not sittin in some Docs office.

Todd have you tried niftech? Alot of us here have switched, not that it smells any less, just seems to work well for us.

Hey Tommy... I have tried Niftech, and just wasn't that impressed by it, as it didn't seem to last for me, particularly in 12th scale. I'll give it credit for being a LOT easier to use, though. There are some tracks that forbid the use of it- I'm told it attacks the backing of the Ozite, but haven't seen it personally. I have used Racers Choice (TQ8+ or TQ Mod) with some good results, but seems as though the first couple laps were spooky- like putting a racecar out there on cold tires.

As far as methyl salicylate, methyl ethyl ketones (M.E.K.)... frankly, we can pick apart every chemical we use. Add to the fact we're guys, so we're all too macho and stupid to do things like wear rubber gloves to protect ourselves. We get motor cleaner in our eyes, painted bodies with the old pactra paint (which funny how the body shape sends the overspray right back at you- pretty colors when you blow your nose!). Partially, we're our own worst enemy in it.

And don't forget...Sometimes we wash it down with Beer & Whiskey too!!! http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/images/icons/icon10.gif

Hey Tommy... I have tried Niftech, and just wasn't that impressed by it, as it didn't seem to last for me, particularly in 12th scale. I'll give it credit for being a LOT easier to use, though. There are some tracks that forbid the use of it- I'm told it attacks the backing of the Ozite, but haven't seen it personally. I have used Racers Choice (TQ8+ or TQ Mod) with some good results, but seems as though the first couple laps were spooky- like putting a racecar out there on cold tires.

As far as methyl salicylate, methyl ethyl ketones (M.E.K.)... frankly, we can pick apart every chemical we use. Add to the fact we're guys, so we're all too macho and stupid to do things like wear rubber gloves to protect ourselves. We get motor cleaner in our eyes, painted bodies with the old pactra paint (which funny how the body shape sends the overspray right back at you- pretty colors when you blow your nose!). Partially, we're our own worst enemy in it.
just wondering if anyone else has seen this problem with the tq-8 or tq-mod compounds being a little on edge for the first few laps?

just wondering
Delete!
Ooooopps!

just wondering if anyone else has seen this problem with the tq-8 or tq-mod compounds being a little on edge for the first few laps?

Same for me, like cold tires!

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/500/tide_racinglogo.gif

No Paragon at the Snowbirds this year!!!! :(

You will most likely see weaker traction compounds being used in conjunction with tire warmers to add heat to the tires to soften them for more traction. :freak:

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/500/tide_racinglogo.gif

No Paragon at the Snowbirds this year!!!! :(

You will most likely see weaker traction compounds being used in conjunction with tire warmers to add heat to the tires to soften them for more traction. :freak:
Try soakin with wd-40.That should soften'em up a little.

The thing about traction is that if everyone has the same stuff then there should be no problem with anyone car they all will be fighting the same conditionsssssssss.....

niftech sucks. it dosent work with 10.5 brushless. it migh be good for spec. it dosent last a whole race.

just wondering if anyone else has seen this problem with the tq-8 or tq-mod compounds being a little on edge for the first few laps?

That means >>>Your not wiping the tires anywhere near good enough... TQ8 here is what you do...Start wiping when the race 2 before yours is just starting... then when the race before yours starts WIPE >WIPE>WIPE>WIPE and keep wiping untill your arm hurts... then wipe some more... Come race time you will be MONEY...

Without seeing your car Ill bet money that before a race if I took your car and tried to wipe tires into the track the car would slide all over the carpet..When wiped properly the car will just dig into the carpet and almost stick to it..

Kenwood, how long to you let it soak in?

When using TQ wipe them after they sit for just a minute or 2 and then make sure they sit and dry for about 15-20 min before you run and there will be absolutely no sliding! Like Sean said when you go to scrub them on the track you will have so much grip you can't can't hardly slide them.

Kenwood, how long to you let it soak in?

Depends on the class... Usually like 15 minutes...Typically on a club race night we have 8 rounds.. 10.5 being the last..usually at the end of round 2 I put it on.. then when round 6 starts I wipe the bulk of it off...When I do the filal wipe the tire is sto sticky that the rag is very hard to push across the tire..

As Brian said If you do the initial wipe earlier ***I do in 13.5 or slower*** the tires require less wiping.. But 10.5 I let them sit for 15 min or so before doing the initial wipe.. Mod I wait even longer.. But then have to really scrub the tires before setting on the track..

If memory serves correct I believe you son would let it sit on there for like 30 minutes... I know he had quite a routine for getting tires ready.. I learned by watching foister and kevin when I started back again a few years ago..

I think I was the only one who always had problems with Paragon.
If I went to the track at noon, by evening I had to go outside for fresh air with a bad headache and stomach ache. The next day I usually couldnt get out of bed. Felt like a really bad hangover and my eyes were always swelled up. Living in an apartment I had to keep my racing equipment in my bedroom and I started to have to pack everything up in ziplock bags to try and contain the smell or my recations to it continued all week. Also I ended up with eczema on my hands. Not sure if it was a direct correlation to the Paragon or not but once our track switched to JTG everything was fine no more Paragon hangovers and the eczema went away too.
I do get pretty bad allergies when it comes to things like pollen in the spring and summer so I am sure it had to do with my allergies moreso than a chemical reaction but still it messed me up. TQ products never messed with me either.

Not sure if it was a direct correlation to the Paragon or not but once our track switched to JTG everything was fine no more Paragon hangovers and the eczema went away too.
I do get pretty bad allergies when it comes to things like pollen in the spring and summer so I am sure it had to do with my allergies moreso than a chemical reaction but still it messed me up. TQ products never messed with me either.

It's not just you. I get absolutely disgusting skin stuff if I use Paragon for more than a week.

I think that for some people you could replace paragon with just about anything and come up with an issue.. I mean some people cant eat peanuts without dying, some cant drink milk without getting sick, some cant have anything with wheat in it without getting very ill, some cant have sugar. Personally Ive had more reactions to motor spray than I have to any brand traction compound... About the only health related ILL effect I have from paragon is if the building the track is in does not have good ventilation My eyes tend to get irritated.. But on the same token if there is a cat in the room my eyes get irritated.. or if there is pollen in the air..

The only issue I have with it non health related is my house smelling like it and the inside of my vehicle smelling like the SS ICYHOT.. I do the same as e-rock... I take my tires off and put them in ziplock bags to cut the smell down when I run paragon..I also keep the bottle in a ziplock bag since the can tends not to seal very well.. What I find somewhat disturbing is when I drive home I dont smell it... But when I get into my vehicle the next day its like a punch in the face..

I doubt we will ever find a solution that is GOOD for everyone.. But to be honest I dont run paragon that often.. My Home track in columbus does not allow it... So I usually only have the issue when traveling..

If memory serves correct I believe you son would let it sit on there for like 30 minutes... I know he had quite a routine for getting tires ready.. I learned by watching foister and kevin when I started back again a few years ago..[/QUOTE]

Kenwood, He gave me his receipe but I think it wouild be simpler to bake a cake than soak tires with his routine!!! LOL I'll give it a shot one of these days. Thanks!

If memory serves correct I believe you son would let it sit on there for like 30 minutes... I know he had quite a routine for getting tires ready.. I learned by watching foister and kevin when I started back again a few years ago..

Kenwood, He gave me his receipe but I think it wouild be simpler to bake a cake than soak tires with his routine!!! LOL I'll give it a shot one of these days. Thanks![/QUOTE]

I hear ya there... thats why I simplified it for my patience level... I cant sit there with a stopwatch and follow a tire routine like that... LOL..

but I like the smell of the wintergreen oil.

16 years since I quit racing, my old tire towel still smells of Paragon.