With ARCOR gone, I'm sure some of the tracks that were following their classes may be changing their directions...

What tracks and clubs are planning to do their brushless classes with the LIPOS now that we have 2 GOOD motors to be used in that direction?

Most of our group is planning to do a 100% switch to a LIPO/BRUSHLESS class in '08. Some of the guys have said they will keep some NiMh's incase they need them for specific events.

...just trying to get a feel for who else is going this direction?

Joe, we have seen just this week some discussion of LIPO brushless here in FL. Unfortunely most folks have not been getting any info on Lipos.

Questions coming up are: What motor battery combo to get speeds comparied with what we are running now.

Ron

Using the ORION 3200 LIPO we have found the speed of the 17.5 to be very very close to the 10.5/4 cell. So close we run them both together.

So far both on short tracks and our Velodrome, both can compete with each other.

The 4 cell/10.5 has been a bit quicker up front, but drops off a little more. The LIPO has a little less overall drop off.

The NEW Novak 21.5 w/ LIPO will be a very good STOCK class replacement, but it will be just a tick faster than a good 27t stock motor on most tracks. (Shouldn't be quite as fast as a 13.5 4 cell though)

Several of our racers now plan to run both 21.5 AND 17.5 LIPO

If you want a FAST class, using the 10.5 with the LIPO the cars run pretty close to a 4 cell /3.5 motor.

I'm hoping to see our local tracks migrate to lipos by 08. So far I've been the only one running the pan car class with the lipo /17.5 combo. A few guys have at least been talking about switching to it but so far no one else has taken any action.

From what I have experienced, the 4cell/10.5 combo is just a touch faster than the 17.5 w/lipo (~2 tenths). I'd like to get a 21.5 so I could see how it compares to the 13.5. As soon as I get a little extra cash I plan on getting one to try.

RC

..........

not yet.....still holding breath

Joe
I will be running 10.5/lipo and 17.5/lipo next year. I will also get a 21.5 motor to race a third class on ocassion.

Steve

We will be extensively testing the Lipo/17.5 starting in the next two weeks at our track in S. Sioux City, Nebraska.( SpeedZone) We have the battery and motor in hand. I am really interested in the Lipo/21.5 but haven't gottin my hands on a 21.5 yet. We want to be the first track in the Midwest to offer a Lipo/Brushless oval class and we expect to offer that class in January 08. It's the future IMO in R/C racing.

Bill Murdock

I've bought the LiPo 3200. Just not sure where to put it. I don't have a 17.5 or a 21.5 yet.

Scott, You want me to tell you where to put it? LOL

RC

bill i have been to grande island nebraska last april....how far away are you guys from there?

Scott, You want me to tell you where to put it? LOL

RC
easy boys this is a family forum keep it clean or i'll have to sick casey on you................. hehehehehehe

Bill,

That's great. I had sent Rob some info recently, hopefully that will help get the ball rolling.

Our guys, including guys who have had major sponsorships, are loving the switch to the 17.5/LIPO from the 4 cell 10.5

I can't wait to see the 21.5's hit the street. I think that is going to be an awesome class structure.

Carolina RC Complex has already started a 17.5/LiPo class. I'm sure it will be even bigger in '08.

I can't wait to run at the end of the month,10.5 and 17.5 lipo..and possibly a 21.5 spoiler only car..

Katf1sh--We live in far Western Iowa. As a matter of fact our farm runs along next to the Missouri River. Our track is just across the river in Nebraska. Grande Island is about 3 1/2 hours west of us. My oldest sister lives there. She's divorced and rides a Harley. Wanna meet her!!!!

swtour--Joe we may be testing as soon as this weekend. Rob we'll keep in touch. Lots of racers around here want to get started in it and we may start the class sooner than Jan 08.

Hi Koz-- Remember the ROAR nats in Wisconsin I believe it was 04. How about that heating system we had in Rob's trailer. Middle of the summer and we about froze all week.

Later,

Bill M.

yeah,i was in shorts and a t shirt,we don't need jackets and pants in Cali...

I'm building my brusless/lipo car as I speak. I have every thing except my charger. Carolina R/C Complex has a great br/lipo class going and I cant wait to join them. I can see this being a class that I can run while running nitro!

Koz--I heard California was a cool place. Didn't know you didn't need any pants!! Now I know what they were talking about.

Out here most of the businesses have signs on their front doors that read--NO SHIRT, NO SHOES NO SERVICE. You guys from California start coming out here they will need to change it to NO SHIRT, NO SHOES, NO PANTS, NO SERVICE.
Just kidding.

It was cold but we had a good time in Wisconsin.

Later,

Bill

pants: Koz dont need no stinking pants. He's warm and fuzzy just the way he is:D

Been Running Lipo/ 17.5 about 8 weeks and this class will make you lazy quick.The Lipo pack is 6 months old and still runs like new.I have ran this battery 12 times in one day and it still holds the #'s on the track like the first run.We run about 1 or 2 laps slower than the 19T ran at the Nats.We also added the weight back to the cars for the 4 cell weight.

I might be interested in Lipo's if I knew the first thing about them. Can anyone point me to a lesson in Lipo's, or explain here?

#1 question is definetely how comparable are they from one to another?
are they safe? how much are they? how much do they fade over time? how many do you need to buy to race one class? how long does it take to charge one? do you need a special charger, esc, etc?

Another thing...it would be awful hard to get me to switch to Lipo's. I've never thought to myself while charging or building a pack "Dang this is a pain I wish I had a Lipo". I only buy 2 packs once every few months also, so NiMh aren't really that expensive for me.

Interested in getting educated in Lipo's though.

Here's a good high level overview.

http://www.rc-oval.com/?p=4#more-4

I don't know nearly as much as swtour and those guys but I can take a shot.

1. Are they consistent from one to another?
Anectdotally people say yes, but I keep hoping and asking to see some real data to prove it and have never seen it. I'd like to see a comparison of maybe 100 packs with 10 each from 10 different lots. I'm sure peak performance has lots of data like that I wish it would get shared.

2. Are they safe?
If treated right then yes. The hard case ones those guys have been running sound pretty safe to me.

3. How much are they?
~$80 depending on where you buy them

4. How much do they fade over time?
Another question I've seen little to no hard data on. Some guys say they have been using them for quite awhile, like a year, with little to no fade. I am somewhat skeptical.

5. How many do you need?
Apparently some guys get by with one. Personally i like to pound a lot of packs practicing so I'd probably have 3 or so.

6. How long does it take to charge one.
I think relatively similar to NiMh. Maybe less since you don't discharge them before recharging. Swtour could tell you for sure.

7. Special Charger?
Yes, the charging method is completely different from what we do now. You can get your GFX updated to do them for like $50-$60. Good deal I think.


Personally I think they would be cool for local racing, but for big events I don't see much advantage over NiMh. Probably not the savior of RC racing, but also probably not worse then what we have now.

Also to qualify my opinion, I have never raced them, so really my opinion is probably worth very little.

Pat,

Thanks for the confidence.

One of our 20+ year STOCK racers spends well over $1,000 a year on NIMH batteries to STAY out front. He's a very very good stock class racer, and has very little interest in going much faster than STOCK speeds, but he also can not stand not having 100% TOP LEVEL equipment.

He is very meticulous on how his car is built, almost to the point of BLUEPRINTING it.

Equally he is the same way with his batteries. If he sees ANY drop off in a pack - it won't get run in competition.

He was also skeptical about this LIPO thing...so he got ahold of at least 5 packs from different sources. Some NEW some OLD, he put them through some very rigorous testing...charging, discharging I believe he said 12-13 times in one day. He was shocked with the results...so much to the point that he has fully converted to 100% LIPO.

That's just one of the CONVERTS so far...

We've got several others as well...I believe this driver has his test data...I'll see if I can get it..or if he will answer questions if emailed.

Charge time running 17.5 class so far has been approx 18 minutes average from most of the guys I've talked to..and what I've run myself.

I use the ORION ADVANTAGE charger..others are using the FMA Scorpion, the ICE, the CHECKPOINT..and I've seen a couple others too.

So far I haven't seen anyone who has tried it say anything negative, which says a lot right there.

Racers being what they are will find a way to screw it up eventually. That is sort of what I am getting at when I say it won't end up being better for big races.

...like with everything...there is no PERFECT solution or answers.

We have not seen many issues w/ the LIPO deal yet, but there have been a few small issues so far.

1) We've seen an increased failure in ESC's. We've seen about 1/2 dozen ESC's go up in smoke the last couple months... Was this because of the LIPO? We don't think so, but we didn't seem to have the issue w/ 4 cell.

2) We've seen a few batteries (ORION 3200's) have an issue with a solder joint or something inside coming loose. I've been told by the guys who have had this issue that ORION quickly took care of the problem for them.

We now have another issue, and hopefully we won't jump to it...

ORION has just announced their NEW 3600 mah SEALED LIPO battery. I've been told by ORION there is NO Plan to discontinue the original 3200, but I'm sure there will be pressure to allow the 3600 vs. the 3200. My hopes are that guys will NOT push this. I don't know if there would be an ONTRACK performance issue with the 3600, but I'm pretty sure there would be...even if only slight....and that would defeat the purpose to trying to lock into ONE battery.

Joe,i brought that up with Ruben last night with the 3600.. we are locked in till next year on the 3200 with our 3 lipo classes..I can't wait to run ,kinda sucks we only get 3 races over the next few months.
Keep the contact with jake going hoping we can get the outdoor guy's switched over to at least a 17.5 lipo class for now.
C you soon..
koz

I see SMC is pushing Lipo's now.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=182012&page=21

Kevin,

What sucks more is that I don't think I'm going to be able to do STOCKTON this year.

I've been on a tight string since March (when I lost my job) but unemployment just ran out - and I'm not able to go back to work at the moment...and the money I have put away is going to REALLY have to be stretched for a while...

..I hate it when LIFE gets in the way of RACING~ But, I have lots of 'race' related stuff going on...

2 more SWTour (www.southwesttour.com (http://www.southwesttour.com/)) events (Nov 10th at METRO and Dec 8th on the VELO) plus organizing LOCAL Club races up here...we should have our once a month "club" dates set through January very soon. ( www.centralcoastrcracing.com (http://www.centralcoastrcracing.com/) )

Plus, having the "TOUR" season run into Dec. leaves a very short break until we fire up the '08 season. (Bacically only a ONE MONTH break)

Tommygun,

Lots of people are pushing the LIPOS, and sadly they are getting pushed in different sizes, shapes, and capacities... That is the main reason for OVAL why I've been pushing for just ONE mfg. This is the same reason J.B. was pushing ARCOR in that direction as well.

I just hope as a COMMUNITY of RACERS, we can get and keep a good group of oval racers moving that direction. Some will try to push you toward the agendas of their sponsor companies...and push for THIER products to be legalized, or recognized, or used.

We've been running 17.5/LIPO vs 10.5/NIMH the last few weeks and it runs comparable. Quite afew guys have bought or are looking into buying the 17.5/LIPO combo. I'd say once we get some of the 21.5s we'll have a bunch get these as well to run with the 13.5/MIMH. I know, until we have a total convertion to LIPOs, we'll have to run both classes combined.

Tim Ski

I understand the 10.5 4 cell nimh is very close to the 17.5 Lipo, are you saying the 21.5 Lipo will be very close to the 13.5 4 cell nimh? I,m curious because theres been some talk of running a 17.5 or 21.5 Lipo as a promotors option class in Florida next year. I personaly realy like the Speed that the 13.5 4 cell nimh cars are running now and am hopeing one of the Lipo classes will be comparable.

From what I have read in other post, about testing, the 21.5 with Lipo should be a tick faster than a good stock motor on 4 cells....

I understand the 10.5 4 cell nimh is very close to the 17.5 Lipo, are you saying the 21.5 Lipo will be very close to the 13.5 4 cell nimh? I,m curious because theres been some talk of running a 17.5 or 21.5 Lipo as a promotors option class in Florida next year. I personaly realy like the Speed that the 13.5 4 cell nimh cars are running now and am hopeing one of the Lipo classes will be comparable.

Do you want to do some testing? I've run 13.5/lipo and 10.5/lipo in touring and really enjoy it and getting real lazy :p. Hopefully the FL oval crowd catches on. I have a 21.5 on preorder and will hit the track with it soon. The 21.5/Lipo sounds like my stock class and suppose to be like the 4c stock.

From what I've been reading for oval
4c nimh Stock 27 turn is close to 17.5/nimh and 21.5/lipo.

A good 4 cell stock motored car is still faster than a 17.5 4 cell car.. But it's not the speed that is the point of brushless and lipo stuff....

FL Flash,

We haven't run much of the 13.5 motor, so I don't know how close a 21.5/LIPO will be in comparision.

Compared against 4 cell STOCK Brushed, the 21.5 has tested a tick faster on a flat track, and almost .4 per lap quicker on a banked cap track.

My personal 13.5 experience has been I stuffed one in the car a couple times when I couldn't get the car to come off the corner right w/ the 10.5, so I slowed it down a little by dropping to the 13.5.

Katf1sh--We live in far Western Iowa. As a matter of fact our farm runs along next to the Missouri River. Our track is just across the river in Nebraska. Grande Island is about 3 1/2 hours west of us. My oldest sister lives there. She's divorced and rides a Harley. Wanna meet her!!!!


Bill M.


I TAKE IT YOU DON'T LIKE YOUR SISTER VERY MUCH! LOL

I am ready for the switch. I am not going to buy any more batteries till we do. I'll just have to be slow.

hopefully we (focar) will have a class for them in 08

Well there's always the promotors class for FOCAR and looks like HW is showing some interest. Just need more racers involved.....

for those of you who are on the fence all i can say is jump.i have been running 17.5/lipo for about 6 months and love it. so far it is as fast or a tic faster than 4300/4cell.0ne of the reasons it is faster is i now have the time to work on the chassis. all my time is not spent working on motors and dealing with batteries.from the velo to the short tracks, lap times have improved.i use the scorpion charger and the 3200 orion lipo. i run 1 lipo pack 7-8 times a race day with no drop off in performance and have had no problems with my 2007 lrp sphere esc.the lipo has not come out of my car since i put it in.its all about chassis setup......by the way im in calif :dude:

I can add to the fact that since rcdemon1 went to the LIPO/17.5 deal and had time to work on his chassis...his racing has improved & his car is consistantly FAST now...and seems to be working a LOT better.

Good Job FRANK~

Yet they still want to spend money on the "new" NiMH.................. go figure.

Do you guys have a battery rule 3200 4000 5000 mAh or dose it matter. We are going to do a class of lipo in the start of our winter series.

We have orion\peak 3200 in Northern Cali. only pack that is allowed i 10.5 lipo and 17.5 lipo..and 21.5 lipo once more motors are avalible.

I think most of us are going the 3200 ORION LIPO route for Oval...

Yes, it does make a difference. Higher MAH packs don't pull down the same...therefore giving you a high voltage pull.

We were running a 4800 lipo with the 3200 class and the difference was about the last minute the bigger lipo had a little more top end.

The lipo class is just great I’ve been in about 6 or 7 lipo races and never took the lipo out of the car in practice re peak about 15 min less time then it would take to cool down the motor I own 2 packs but the other pack has not been use yet
I tested the 3200 vs the 4800 and at the 240 second mark at 35 amps the 4800 was .5 volts higher
And with a 4300 motor that’s 2150 RPM
But we only use about 1600 mAh in a 5 min 17.5 race so we don’t need the 4800 pack

Thanks guys that some good info.