Just want to see some good debate and feedback on this topic.

I went to the IIC race in Vegas this week where they handed out Jack the Gripper traction compound. There was tons and tons of traction this year with absolutely no smell at the track. I saw some of the best racing ever. Racers on the road side seem in more support of the Gripper, maybe it is time for oval and the 'birds. I must admit I enjoyed being there without the strong wall of Paragon when you arrive. It was really really nice.

And since we have a nice new hotel and hope to be there for many years to come, we are considering this. Who's even to say we might even be asked to shut down mid-race if guests of the hotel complain, we really don't know how strong or bad it might be. Just things we have to think about. We did run zip-free year one at the Ramada...

Thoughts? Debates?
How many tracks run odorless now?

Thanks!
Mike and the rest of the Thunder Race Crew

Don't see a problem with it. i actually get really bad headaches from it and sometimes i can't see well on the track b/c my eyes water so bad.

I can't make Snowbirds, wish I could, but I am another person who gets pretty sick from Paragon. Headaches and a pretty killer rash when I have it on my hands for long periods. I bet the hotel would also appreciate no paragon.

N-i-f-t-e-c-h

I have switched to tq 8 recently and has worked decent, I dont mind paragon but ocasionaly get head aches from it but niftech is the worst for me, that stuff STINKS!!!! never understood the claim for it to be a odorless product.

I have switched to tq 8 recently and has worked decent, I dont mind paragon but ocasionaly get head aches from it but niftech is the worst for me, that stuff STINKS!!!! never understood the claim for it to be a non smelling product.


I've run TQ8 pretty much exclusively for years.

Mike, your mail box is full

This is is reply to an email I got: Year one we did have some racers claim to mix the traction and this left ill feelings with some racers. But I think today racers will comply completely, as the zip-free was not very good. There was an advantage in mixing back then - and we were rookies with tech and carpet back then - heck a lot of us oval guys were. There have been zero issues the past few years at some real big road races (500+ entries) and this is positive. We will come up with a solid tech procedure and have ZERO tolerance if there is doubt of any kind (if we do this route). We all like to race fair and square, and this means that racers will also be our best tech to make sure things go smooth.

Just a note. Thanks!

10-4 Gary.

I like the Jack Idea, Paragon gives me a headach also....

I think that I said to some one once that I would never put Jack the Gripper next to my tires let alone on them! Stick with Paragon it always works.

-Monti-

Mike you just have to make sure your tech guy has a good sniffer haha.

While Scotty was in vegas putting on the race, we had a chance to run some oval again at his track; Trackside for the first time in a few years. He only allows JTG and I thought there were both pros and cons to it.

The no odor was definately a very big plus. Another good thing I liked about it was that I thought it definately took the battery out of the equation with the far lower traction levels. For me it really didnt matter if I had a practice pack or race pack it ran about the same times. In a way it was more like dirtoval, everyone was working on just getting their car drivable and tightening it up all day rather than being so stuck to the track that your lost at what to change. You definately had to get up on the wheel and I thought it was kinda fun!!!! This was with 10.5's.

The one drawback that I saw though is that is was such a one groove track it made passing kinda tough. We had about 25 cars and some were TC's running rubber tires and it definately took awhile for the groove to come in. I do think that some of the less experienced guys were maybe getting a little frustrated because you had to be right on your marks and have your car real driver friendly. But it is the same for everyone and with help from the top drivers I think that problem can be solved. I'm sure at a big race this wouldnt be a problem as the groove would certainly widen out.

I think it could work out real well at a big race and the traction levels wouldnt be so ridiculous that it may put a little more driver back into it.

How about a Onroad/oval warmup at trackside mike, give scotty a call haha.

In the end it doesnt matter what we run since it is the same for everybody. The good drivers will still endup on top.

I don't think it would be a problem.

Just won't be a real r/c race without a good paragon headache!:thumbsup:

If it aint broke dont fix it! Stay with the way it has been!

i would like to see another traction besides JTR but i do not have a problem with the no paragon rule

im with alan on this one.

R.N.

I like the idea of no paragon. The hotel may have issues with the smell.
In the past the smell has negatively effected some racers.

dont force 1 product just make it odorless if you want to get away.

i dont care what way we go i just dont want to be forced to run a product..

Why not go with none at all? Lets see who can drive and set up a car without it.

Do away with Paragon Mike. Will cut out amell.

Use the one that smells like oranges, after all it is Florida. LOL Then the guest will just think everyone is drinking OJ. In the old location the race was not in an area close to the main guest rooms ( if there were any guest besides racers ) and maybe did not cause any problems for the hotel. Maybe the first year something without odor would be a good thing to do. This location looks much better and it would be nice to be invited back. Maybe with out the odor guest may watch more racing.

I've run TQ 8 and I like it. Doesn't have the strong smell like paragon, and although it doesn't have the same traction, its better than Jack.

Stick-ET!

Unfortunately, I think that it will be next to impossible to tech an ordor. We have to be realistic! How can you measure or prove that someone has not soaked his tires weeks before and sprayed some sort of deodorant to mask the smell.

Unfortunately during these types of situations, there are always some that try to push the envelope. Cheating is already very hard to control without teching tire traction.

For the sake of simplicity, I vote to keep the tire traction rule the way it is and allow any type including Paragon.
Antonio De Nino

I am thinking of go for the first time this year but the thought of being in a room that hundreds of car with paragon are running makes me a little nervure that stuff makes me sick and my eyes water so bad that is had to drive. We have carpet track that run JTG
And it seems to be just fine after a short time the traction really starts to come up

I would stay with the current system Mike. I deal with guys across the country daily or weekly and having heard and seen the results of what jack can do to carpet and tires, you may see a problem. The track will get wet with it and never dry out, turn it into a one groove track, and the carpet will react in a bad way. It works good but does have adverse effects when used. After 20 years of building tires I have seen everything possible thrown onto tires. Some good and some bad.

If you want to get away from smell, put a little something different into things go with go-jo creme hand cleaner. It takes about 3 to 4 laps to come in but will not have adverse effects on the carpet or tires. If everyone uses it it would be something to consider. I myself would still use that stuff but with todays close racing you cant wait those few laps for the traction to come up.

Mike,

Paragon is the only thing that some of these guys use to cover up the odor of 5 days without a shower.

A quick conference call between you Jaco, BSR, TM, RC4Less & Murdoch should be able to come up with a suitable replacement for the Wintergreen Cologne.

I, for one, would love to see something that did not have the lingering effects but you have always made good choices and will do so again!

I'll be at the Raddisson on Thursday for a first hand look.

Peter

Not a big fan of the Gripper but TQ8 I can live with. As for Paragon maybe that's why my suitcase is always being sniffed out at the airport.

Why not use the Paragon Traction Action? Not really a smell and doesn't seem to kill the tire but yet still provide good traction. Just my two cents.

Better put up a BIG FOAM OUTER WALL for Jack the Gripper 6-cell Modified and 4 cell mod... I dont mind if the paragon goes away But I dont care to run Jack the slipper in anything other than stock...

TQ would be a good choice as it still offers grip with a less potent smell... or Nifftec..

I'd much rather take the wintergreen smell then the other laquer thinner smell. Every time I go to a non Paragon track I'm outside puking after about 5 hours of it. Maybe it's because there always seem to be a dozen different traction copounds being used at those tracks when Paragon isn't allowed. IMO running one compound is the best just let it be something that provides traction not hassels like JTG.

I think that I said to some one once that I would never put Jack the Gripper next to my tires let alone on them! Stick with Paragon it always works.

-Monti-

Ditto! Stick with Paragon!

Stick with Paragon

Offer an approved list of acceptable compounds, choose a few. Jack, TQ, Zip Grip, non scented and fruit flavors or leave it wide open.

Although personally I have no problems with Paragon, It would be nice to not leave a "Ben-Gay Bomb" on the new and MUCH nicer place Mike has got for this year...

Valentine: Agreed with you, non paragon tracks give me some of my worse headaches between the ears, sometimes on the track.

Not that it much matters, but I believe the Sandhills crews mentioned something of the non-paragon type tractions killed the carpet life at their track once...? Anyone in the know...

Make a rule, stick to it, it's the same for everyone!! Lots of tracks have traction additive rules and all the racers adjust to it. I remember a boss that once said "If a rule is made for everyone, then it is a fair rule, but if it is applied to a few and not all, then it is not a "fair" rule".

When the "Ultra Bird" motor was made the "motor" of choice, guess what, it was the same for all who complied with the rules, and the racing has always been some of the best.

Pick it and stick to it Mike, just my 3 cents worth..

Tin Man

I found this on R/CTech's forum. Any one tried it?

Believe it or not everything has some type of odor to it. With that said, the "best" odor free stuff that I have used is Paragon WITH about 3 onces of Vanilla extract added. The vanilla REALLY tames down the oil of wintergreen smell of Paragon without seemingly changing its great grip characteristics.

Or just leave it alone with Paragon.

Raymond McCoy

Paragon for President.

Although..if the on road crew is using a mix(they generally seem to not be so stuck on Paragon), we'll still have to deal with the "slick spots" where the 2 tracks share space.
Arnie mentioned non-paragon stuff affecting carpet life. I think that's a solid point. Look back at previous year discussions on Cleveland and Vegas where they went away from Paragon. There was a lot of talk of how the track never took bite and stayed "light" throughout the weekend and the groove never came in. The biggies in on-road are temporary tracks that see years of laps laid down over 4-5 days and lifespan of the carpet beyond Sunday is unimportant. The I think a lot of us started thinking the carpet construction may have been different when it might have been a traction compund effect.
We all know the infamous discussions brought about after the Cinci BRL last year where tire compounds(possibly additive as well) produced a "white groove" that was kind of unfamiliar at a well attended oval race.
No conclusive evidence, just items of note.

dk

Thanks for the great thoughts so far!

I would be willing to use Jack the Gripper. No complaints here.

Suntan lotion hand-out traction compound. I'm kidding...sort of.

I hear a week old coke poored into a paragon can works well. lol

You guys use traction compound..Hmmm I might have to try that this year. :)

My vote would be hand-out traction compound for ALL racers (including on-road). Who is to say what will be allowed in luggage by airlines once the 'birds roll around. If you know that are going to be given traction compound at the track, then that is one less thing to pack.

I've read here on Hobbytalk that various "odorless" compounds cause people more headaches/ill affects than wintergreen smelling Paragon. But I'd rather have the option of having a nice hotel to go back to each year by not upsetting the hotel management this year.

There is an alternative that hasn't been suggested - run the race outside under a tent, then it wouldn't matter what traction compound is being used. I realize that this probably isn't financially practical but it certainly would solve the issue - and it would REALLY make setting up a car more interesting.

As far as masking the smell of Paragon, if there really is a way to do so without affecting the characteristics then that might be the simplest way to handle the problem.

I agree with Miller, If it aint broke don't fix it.

Man I have ran Parogon for 20+ years and I am sick of it. I was puking at the last carpet race I was at. There are alot of traction additives out there and if Mike has a 'spec' traction additive and everyone has to run it GOOD!

Outside I dont care. I use it as part of my asphalt brew. Its good stuff.

If I have to adjust to a new traction additive so be it. Enough is enough.

I like the new hotel too, and hope to come back year after year. And if we use Paragon we wont be back. I promise you that. We do not bring enough money to pay for that smell that will be left behind.

Baddog is right
What happens on the second or third day of racing and the smell is spread all over the hotel and the racing is CANCELED!!
And everyone is SOL!

Remember this is the first time at a new race site!!

I have to agree with tin man. We used to run paragon until the track owner was rushed to the hospital because he couldn't breath. So we went to Jack the Gripper Only. It took some adjusting to, but everyone made the adjustments and we ended up running faster. I think it might force you to look at chassis setup more, rather then depending on the compound.

I have no problem with Paragon.

Any rule on traction compounds is an open door to controversy.

Steve Salvas

run the race outside under a tent, then it wouldn't matter what traction compound is being used. I realize that this probably isn't financially practical but it certainly would solve the issue - and it would REALLY make setting up a car more interesting.




This is something I've always thought would be SO COOL - and after seeing the sub-floor Mike used last year...that could be done in a huge parking lot - OPEN AIR style

WHAT would the Spectators be like with something like that??? WOW~~~