Just interested what the general racer thinks about the following questions:

1. Did Trinity cannibalize their stock motor market by releasing multiple stock motors at the same time? x-stock and CO27.

2. Did multiple motors released by trinity hurt stock racing?

3. Did multiple brands of 19-turn motors hurt 19-turn racing (Reedy, Checkpoint, and Trinity) each with multiple motor types?

4. Would having only one brand of battery legal hurt or help racing?

5. Would only allowing IBs cells help or hurt racing?

6. Would only allowing EP cells help or hurt racing?

7. Would allowing only Orion Lipos help or hurt racing?

8. If the price of any "only brand allowed" item went up $20 should it determine if it remains the "only brand allowed"? How much is a reasonable per year? 5%, 20%?

8. If Tekin released a motor that had the exact performance as the Novak but was $20 cheaper than the Novak, would it be better for for the racer?

9. Would allowing only KSG cars be better for racing?

That list of questions leads me to think you're trying to make a point of some sort. What is it?

If I read between the lines it looks like a question that should have been asked is:

Would only allowing spec classes help or hurt racing?

1. NO, they tried to offer racers needing higher power or higher RPM's a choice.

2. NO

3. NO, the perseption of racers thinking brand X racer had a cheater motor instead of thinking it was just a better driver and better car that beat him.

4. NO, right now there's really only two, dropping to one won't help.

5. One brand of anything won't will only eliminate a one variable and make the other variables more important. Making you try to find any advantage you can in the others items.

6. same as 5.

7. same as 5.

8. If the racers choice to only allow one brand of something and the MFG decides to raise the price, it's your problem for only having one brand. Competiotn between MFG's keeps the cost down.

9. same as 5.

If you want to race spec there's probally a class for you, please leave racing alone.

If I read between the lines it looks like a question that should have been asked is:

Would only allowing spec classes help or hurt racing?

Every class is a spec class. The only difference is the number of specs.

I read the original post as taking a swipe at the whole Tekin BL thing, which is a topic that ought to be done with.

Agreed on Tekin. I was thinking that too but I've seen enough discussion about that issue to last me until next year :).

1. Did Trinity cannibalize their stock motor market by releasing multiple stock motors at the same time? x-stock and CO27. I quit right around the release of the CO27 and the X-stock. This was not the reason I quit racing. I think having mutliple options to win with is good. To be honest I was about the only stock racer alive that preferred the high rpm Epic ROAR stock. Loved the RPM.

2. Did multiple motors released by trinity hurt stock racing? I dont think so. It just gave stock guys more options. Some like Torque = Co27, some like RPM - ROAR stock, some like a balance - Monster and X-stock.
A good Monster (released circa '01/02) can still win any stock non-handout race.

3. Did multiple brands of 19-turn motors hurt 19-turn racing (Reedy, Checkpoint, and Trinity) each with multiple motor types? 19T is a different breed because around the country the class was already torn between handwound classes and machine wound classes. I think that is what hurt the class. Then within the Handwound classes you had many different teardowns. At first it was the Ti torque blank. Then the Ti short stack obsoleted that. Then the Epic obsoleted that. Then the Epic Fuji obsoleted that. Then at the very end the Truespeed obsoleted them all.

4. Would having only one brand of battery legal hurt or help racing?
Probably help it. Pretty much when it came to batteries one brand seems to rule anyway. Sanyo, then Panisonic, then Sanyo, Then GP, then IB

5. Would only allowing IBs cells help or hurt racing?

6. Would only allowing EP cells help or hurt racing?

7. Would allowing only Orion Lipos help or hurt racing?

8. If the price of any "only brand allowed" item went up $20 should it determine if it remains the "only brand allowed"? How much is a reasonable per year? 5%, 20%?

8. If Tekin released a motor that had the exact performance as the Novak but was $20 cheaper than the Novak, would it be better for for the racer?

9. Would allowing only KSG cars be better for racing?

1. Did Trinity cannibalize their stock motor market by releasing multiple stock motors at the same time? x-stock and CO27.

I don't know I was racing BL when the Co27 came out.

2. Did multiple motors released by trinity hurt stock racing?

See above

3. Did multiple brands of 19-turn motors hurt 19-turn racing (Reedy, Checkpoint, and Trinity) each with multiple motor types?

The motors in that class always looked like a pain. That is what kept me out of it. I doubt I'm the only one in the world who felt that way, so I'd say yes.

4. Would having only one brand of battery legal hurt or help racing?

The only way it would matter one way or the other is if every racer in the world in every class agreed to run the one battery. Oval alone is far too small to matter in any way whatsoever.

For the sake of argument if everyone did agree it could go either way. It would help if it allowed the battery mfg. to focus on providing us a stable cell instead of the highest voltage possible. It would hurt if the one mfg. decided to raise prices or provide us with total junk since there would be no competition to worry about.

5. Would only allowing IBs cells help or hurt racing?

See above

6. Would only allowing EP cells help or hurt racing?

See above

7. Would allowing only Orion Lipos help or hurt racing?

The lipo battery world is too all over the map in regards to what the batteries are, safety and quality to just allow anything.

8. If the price of any "only brand allowed" item went up $20 should it determine if it remains the "only brand allowed"? How much is a reasonable per year? 5%, 20%?

In reality the price for a given product should fall on a year to year basis. That is what is expected in the real manufacturing and business world. Assuming there are no drastic changes in raw material costs.

This isn't a realistic scenario. Like I said above, oval racing is far too small to matter on a large scale. If oval racing mandates product X they are not going to raise prices by $20 because they will still have to compete with product Y in every other market, which will probably comprise 99% of their business.

8. If Tekin released a motor that had the exact performance as the Novak but was $20 cheaper than the Novak, would it be better for for the racer?

This would only be a valid question if we hadn't already been racing the Novak motors for 3 years. As things stand now having a motor that is $20 cheaper than the Novak is meaningless to us, because we all already own Novaks.

I think what is best for us as a group is to show that we support a mfg. who has stepped up to support us. In the long run that is what will be best for our form of racing.

9. Would allowing only KSG cars be better for racing?

Silly question.

.................................................. .................................................. ...
I still think your line of questions is intended for you to use to make the point of why do we allow competition in some areas and not others. That point really isn't valid. Each part of the car is unique with competition in some areas being beneficial and not in others. The smartest thing to do is evaluate each area individually and do what is best for the whole group.

Just interested what the general racer thinks about the following questions:

1. Did Trinity cannibalize their stock motor market by releasing multiple stock motors at the same time? x-stock and CO27.

NO

2. Did multiple motors released by trinity hurt stock racing?

NO

3. Did multiple brands of 19-turn motors hurt 19-turn racing (Reedy, Checkpoint, and Trinity) each with multiple motor types?

No, The Cheating in 19 turn is what KILLED 19 turn!
4. Would having only one brand of battery legal hurt or help racing?

neither, racers will buy what is fastest

5. Would only allowing IBs cells help or hurt racing?

Same as above

6. Would only allowing EP cells help or hurt racing?

Same as #4

7. Would allowing only Orion Lipos help or hurt racing?

Hurt, after a few Houses burn down Lipo will be Illegal!

8. If the price of any "only brand allowed" item went up $20 should it determine if it remains the "only brand allowed"? How much is a reasonable per year? 5%, 20%?

Same as #4, Racers will buy what is Fastest price does not matter!

8. If Tekin released a motor that had the exact performance as the Novak but was $20 cheaper than the Novak, would it be better for for the racer?

Same as #8

9. Would allowing only KSG cars be better for racing?

No KSG cars are the wrong color!




Next question!

Hey ... I only race about 6-8 times a year. So my views of what is important to racers is probably considerably different than most. I started racing back in the early 90s and then stopped in 98. I just got back into racing during the last 2 years. I have noticed that racers as a group have always had rules about motors, batteries, and bodies. Some of these rules are pretty strict, some are lenient. It seems many new classes are being formed with much more strict rules than in the past. I don't remember rules about speed controllers until brushless motors came along. The increase in "strictness" might be a good thing ... to be honest I am not sure. I'll try to answer these questions myself as I see them right now.

1. Did Trinity cannibalize their stock motor market by releasing multiple stock motors at the same time? x-stock and CO27.
Yes, but they probably sold more motors in total than if they only sold one. It gave users some tunability in picking motors. It's like Starbucks opening a store around the block from an existing store ... Starbucks sales are still up but might have lowered sales a in close store.

2. Did multiple motors released by trinity hurt stock racing?
No. I never heard someone say that too many choices made them quit stock racing. I have heard "I hate having to buy 10 stock motors to get a good one." (This doesn't seem to be the case as much as it was 10 years ago).

3. Did multiple brands of 19-turn motors hurt 19-turn racing (Reedy, Checkpoint, and Trinity) each with multiple motor types?

I'll agree with Erock on this. I was lucky enough to only run the Fuji's and I bought one Truespeed. All of my motors seemed exactly the same - power and speed wise. I liked the consistency a lot more than the stock motors, but even the stock motors of today seem more consistent than yesteryear. i don't think the handwound/machinewound difference helped at all.

4. Would having only one brand of battery legal hurt or help racing?

Not sure. I don't like the current situation with IBs. Using the cells makes me worried. Cycling at the house makes me extremely worried ... I now only charge when watching them in the garage with a fire extinguisher near by.

5. Would only allowing IBs cells help or hurt racing?

Not sure. I think having only one brand that was extremely consistent would be great for racing. I could see an issue were the performance goes down in general to gain reliability and then seeing "super team" packs that get released like the current packs. I don't think that would be good at all, and I think that unless we are pushing hard for performance that situation could occur. We have seen runtime differences of over 20% with IBs.

6. Would only allowing EP cells help or hurt racing?

Same as above.

7. Would allowing only Orion Lipos help or hurt racing?

Not sure. I have seen no data on the consistency of Orion batteries. What are the actual discharge curves like? If we discharged a 100 of them, what would the standard deviation be? Are they all within 5%? 10%?

8. If the price of any "only brand allowed" item went up $20 should it determine if it remains the "only brand allowed"? How much is a reasonable per year? 5%, 20%?

This is a difficult question, and too vague. It many areas the price of rc cars has gone down (tires, radios, batteries) and when the price has gone up we see an increase in quality (car kits, brushless speed controllers). The main exception is I heard the AMB transponder was much cheaper when first released. While the price is disappointing ... I don't see a uproar about it. I would still gladly pay the $90 for it than deal with track transponders again. Racers are pretty resourceful and if they are getting ripped off ... they will complain (imagine oval racers complaining). Then again with the state of the US dollar, most imported products should be increasing in cost significantly.

8. If Tekin released a motor that had the exact performance as the Novak but was $20 cheaper than the Novak, would it be better for for the racer?

This would be good for new racers and Tekin. It wouldn't matter at all for the people that already had motors. It would add doubt to some racers that would have to buy it and compare. It would be bad for Novak (who spent a lot of time and support doing brushless in the beginning). So I think this might be good for individual racers but possibly bad for racing.

9. Would allowing only KSG cars be better for racing?

I threw in this question in just to see how people would answer. I was expecting the "silly question" type answers. We have seen countless threads about "what car should I buy" and the answers are always the same ... run the car that you get the most support from other local racers from.


After writing my answers I see something that I believe is the common thread. Consistent high quality products are what I think are good for racers and racing. Motors that are all extremely close in performance are good. Batteries that are all the same and safe are good. Speed controllers that all equal in performance and reliable are good. Cars that have all the adjustments we need are good. Even when there haven't been "strict" rules regarding a product we see racers in general gravitate to the consistent products.

1. Did Trinity cannibalize their stock motor market by releasing multiple stock motors at the same time? x-stock and CO27.

Yes, but who else tried? Orion/Peak has one that nobody has even tried that I know of. So it really doesn't matter. They had a corner on the stock motor market from the begining.

2. Did multiple motors released by trinity hurt stock racing?

Nope, really doesn't matter. Agree with previous statements, who doesn't like choices?

3. Did multiple brands of 19-turn motors hurt 19-turn racing (Reedy, Checkpoint, and Trinity) each with multiple motor types?

Nope, again who doesn't like choices? I have my opinions on the demise of 19turn, however brands didn't kill it.

4. Would having only one brand of battery legal hurt or help racing?

Hurt. Monopoly.

5. Would only allowing IBs cells help or hurt racing?

See number 4

6. Would only allowing EP cells help or hurt racing?


See number 4


7. Would allowing only Orion Lipos help or hurt racing?


See number 4. Plus it would kill off the "smaller" battery compaines. Here goes the lipo/nimh debate. lol. Basically do you want to play with a flame thrower (lipo) or a shotgun (nimh)?


8. If the price of any "only brand allowed" item went up $20 should it determine if it remains the "only brand allowed"? How much is a reasonable per year? 5%, 20%?

Should not have 1 brand for anything. That was my biggest argument against the Ultrabird Only 19turn class. In order to keep the competition in the hobby there must be competition in the market. The old philosopy "what wins on Sunday, sells on Monday. To keep the hobby around there must be manufacturer competition.

8. If Tekin released a motor that had the exact performance as the Novak but was $20 cheaper than the Novak, would it be better for for the racer?

Who cares, it's brushless. LOL. It wouldn't matter because everyone would have their own opinions about which is better. So some would still but the more expensive of the two no matter the brand.

9. Would allowing only KSG cars be better for racing?


See number 4


Good thread.

Who cares? I'm racin' the class I like. And there is lots of competition.

1. NO, they tried to offer racers needing higher power or higher RPM's a choice.

2. NO

3. NO, the perseption of racers thinking brand X racer had a cheater motor instead of thinking it was just a better driver and better car that beat him.

4. NO, right now there's really only two, dropping to one won't help.

5. One brand of anything won't will only eliminate a one variable and make the other variables more important. Making you try to find any advantage you can in the others items.

6. same as 5.

7. same as 5.

8. If the racers choice to only allow one brand of something and the MFG decides to raise the price, it's your problem for only having one brand. Competiotn between MFG's keeps the cost down.

9. same as 5.

If you want to race spec there's probally a class for you, please leave racing alone.


what he said

what he said

You are a Mike Valentine Wannabe!!!!

1. Did Trinity cannibalize their stock motor market by releasing multiple stock motors at the same time? x-stock and CO27.

Yes, but who else tried? Orion/Peak has one that nobody has even tried that I know of. So it really doesn't matter. They had a corner on the stock motor market from the begining.

2. Did multiple motors released by trinity hurt stock racing?

Nope, really doesn't matter. Agree with previous statements, who doesn't like choices?

3. Did multiple brands of 19-turn motors hurt 19-turn racing (Reedy, Checkpoint, and Trinity) each with multiple motor types?

Nope, again who doesn't like choices? I have my opinions on the demise of 19turn, however brands didn't kill it.

4. Would having only one brand of battery legal hurt or help racing?

Hurt. Monopoly.

5. Would only allowing IBs cells help or hurt racing?

See number 4

6. Would only allowing EP cells help or hurt racing?


See number 4


7. Would allowing only Orion Lipos help or hurt racing?


See number 4. Plus it would kill off the "smaller" battery compaines. Here goes the lipo/nimh debate. lol. Basically do you want to play with a flame thrower (lipo) or a shotgun (nimh)?


8. If the price of any "only brand allowed" item went up $20 should it determine if it remains the "only brand allowed"? How much is a reasonable per year? 5%, 20%?

Should not have 1 brand for anything. That was my biggest argument against the Ultrabird Only 19turn class. In order to keep the competition in the hobby there must be competition in the market. The old philosopy "what wins on Sunday, sells on Monday. To keep the hobby around there must be manufacturer competition.

8. If Tekin released a motor that had the exact performance as the Novak but was $20 cheaper than the Novak, would it be better for for the racer?

Who cares, it's brushless. LOL. It wouldn't matter because everyone would have their own opinions about which is better. So some would still but the more expensive of the two no matter the brand.

9. Would allowing only KSG cars be better for racing?


See number 4


Good thread.

Couldn't of said it better.... :thumbsup:

Basically do you want to play with a flame thrower (lipo) or a shotgun (nimh)?

Thats funny I don't care who you are.!!!!!!!!!!
Thats also sad but true.

question # 11

what exactly is the right way of doing things?
answer: what works best for you and your racers,not what works best for someone else!