Here's the theory
It seems that there are a lot of master cases out there missing the same 5 cars. I'll bet you would have no problem ordering those cars direct from AW. Just another plot by TL to sell more cars at 14.95 each. He claims to have stopped forcing the collector to buy the regular cars from him at retail , this seems to be a way to direct the collector back for the regular cars once again , You have to give him some credit for his slickness..
Just a theory..

I hope I did this poll correct

It is as they stated, it is a chase type marketing scheme. I am not fond of it and I am happy it will end with r5. I hope that they get more color options with future releases.

I don't think that there is anything slick there...
Just the way things work out...

Scott

I'm not even going to vote. I don't think Mr. Lowe is trying to be " slick ".
He's a business man, trying to run a profitable company. Randy.

some of us really enjoy this forum .Please do not start crap here .take it somewhere else please .Hank will pull the whole slot forum if we dont police ourselfs .how does this poll help our hobby? Tom has said if you dont like the way he does his thing dont buy it. You buy a random packed case and ask for sealed you get what you ask for.nuff said.

I'm just glad I got my Ford GT's for 14 bucks a piece, instead of the 24 bucks some dealers are charging... GO BUDS HO!

some of us really enjoy this forum .Please do not start crap here .take it somewhere else please .Hank will pull the whole slot forum if we dont police ourselfs .how does this poll help our hobby? Tom has said if you dont like the way he does his thing dont buy it. You buy a random packed case and ask for sealed you get what you ask for.nuff said.
I just find it funny that most cases are missing the same 5 cars & there is no problem ordering them at retail from AW..I am not trying to hurt this Hobby , I love this Hobby. Deceptive selling tactics are whats pissing people off & hurting this great Hobby..Read for yourself right here about how many people no longer buy cases , just a few loose cars with all the BS they have been pulling. I started this poll so TL could see what people are feeling. Hey maybe am wrong , but when I got my Masters in business they teach you to be deceptive & sneaky. Its all part of business. Trump 101
I don't mean to offend anyone in this Forum & apoligize to those I did. This is a great Forum for the hobby..

Slots-101

No offense taken. ;)

I'm just glad I got my Ford GT's for 14 bucks a piece, instead of the 24 bucks some dealers are charging... GO BUDS HO!
autoworldslots had them listed at 12.00 & sold them out in 2 days. I got 2 of each for 53.95 shipped. I think he had 15 of each available. Go autoworldslots

I like autoworld too. I just bought a few from them today

Tom isn't gettig slick, but I think his workforce is simply getting bored. "Pack them randomly, please."

Ok....lets see how many cases we can randomly pack the same with the least amount of brain-power used.

A supervisor says "Pack them like this." Gives one example and walks away......
It isn't too much of a stretch for the imagination to see some poor underpaid worker (not Toms employeees) wondering why this "Crazy American car guy" (Tom) wants them all packed the same way with doubles of some cars and missing others. *shrug*

You know, when I pack for a trip the items on top of the stack are the ones most likely to be packed. Same with packing a case, fill the box with whatever is lined up. How and why it got organized that way is anyone's guess. Maybe the first cars received got packed and shipped.

You can criticize the outcome, whether intentional or not, clearly not much thought was given to varying the contents of cases at their origination.

If these were "toys" it would be no big deal, it's SOP, but they're not being sold as toys, are they?

It is more profitable for the company obviously - cars have been purchased that otherwise would not have been, and if returned/exchanged they are not going back to the source. Whether that was due to simple oversight, pure apathy, or somebody looking to maximize sales and profits is anyone's guess. You'll never know the truth one way or the other.

No one has wailed against the marketing stategy of AW more than I. However, the approach AW has taken is well publicized. They make no secret of the fact that not all the cars are produced in the same quantity. Dealers and vendors (and some customers) are also well aware of the fact that the cases are randomly packed.
While I think this approach is wrongheaded and counterproductive, there is nothing slick or devious. It is very straightforward, promoted on their website and actually considered a virtue by AW.
It is your decision whether you wish to spend the time and energy necessary to chase down the car you want. It is the dealer's decision as to whether they wish to order black-box cases and sort out the cars.
If you buy a sealed case knowing it is randomly packed, what did you expect? You could get a case filled with all the same car. Should you really be surprised?
I understand that you may believe TL is holding back some cars purposely. It's possible - anything is possible. But if a vast majority support AW's marketing stategy and "chase" scenerio by continuing to buy the product despite the difficulties, you then reap what you sow.

Joe

I heard the brown Chevy's were hard to get. I bought one today for 12 bucks form Autoworld, so they can't be that hard to track down

Still, Tom is a sharp guy. I have a hard time believeing that anything AW does is by accident, but that's just me.

While I think this approach is wrongheaded and counterproductive, there is nothing slick or devious. It is very straightforward, promoted on their website and actually considered a virtue by AW.
It is your decision whether you wish to spend the time and energy necessary to chase down the car you want. It is the dealer's decision as to whether they wish to order black-box cases and sort out the cars.
I understand that you may believe TL is holding back some cars purposely. It's possible - anything is possible. But if a vast majority support AW's marketing stategy and "chase" scenerio by continuing to buy the product despite the difficulties, you then reap what you sow.

Joe
I just find it funny that you can go to their website & purchase the missing cars at retail with no problem..They don't seem to be missing any of the harder to find cars.. First the whites & now the regular cars too . What next ?

I just find it funny that you can go to their website & purchase the missing cars at retail with no problem..They don't seem to be missing any of the harder to find cars.. First the whites & now the regular cars too . What next ?

As I said, their marketing stategy is wrongheaded and counterproductive. But dealers are ordering and guys are buying.
One could easily assume that AW makes sure that it's inventory is complete. Certainly, if AW is selling complete sets on the website, you can be sure they are not going through randomly packed cases and putting the sets together. They are insuring they have an equal number of each car; otherwise, how could they sell complete sets?
But like I said, it is all laid out there for everyone to see. You may consider it slick, and to a certain extent it is slick, but it is not secretive and it will not sneak up on you. It is slick in the sense that since it is difficult to find some cars with your favorite dealer, you may decide to buy from the website. It is really the dealers who lose in this scenerio and they are really the only people in a position to force changes.
It is certainly not the way I would do it, and I'm sure AW has lost many collectors because of it.
It's quite telling that only the release 2 XT iWheels have sold out; collectors are the guys who would have bought those cars. But since many collectors walked away, the "collectable/chase" cars don't mean that much.

Joe

I would have bought the Release 3 iWheels, but two of them are the sa,me as release 2 and I didn't want to pay for 2 cars I already have.. they needed to change something on them, maybe leave the bird off the TA or something

OH MY GOD ! Tom actually wants his product to sell for retail price. ! Who does he think he is ? Doesn't he know that it the God given right of every BB poster to buy NEW product at way below retail and sometime even below wholesale ! The NERVE of some people . If I were TL I would double the the retail price of my cars. You all pay dash $10.00 for a body with NO chassis and No packaging but B&M when you have to pay a penny over wholesale for a complete car . AND then have the nerve to cry that the product isn't any good. Maybe just maybe if these cars were sold at what they are supposed to be sold at , there would be enough profit to ensure better QC the first time around.

Tom is undoubtedly a very smart guy. In fact, Toms break from RC2 is making him look even smarter now that RC2 has been caught up in the Dangerous Chinese Toys scandal. I'd imagine he is very pleased to have distanced himself from that potential train wreck, unless he still holds stock in the company. RC2 stock has taken a pounding over the past couple of months.

In the meantime, don't let the kiddies gnaw on your slot cars. You never know what's in them.

Joe hit the nail on the head, and it is a time tested, somewhat slick marketing strategy. Buy a sealer case, yes there is a certain degree of chance as to exactly what you will get, but there is also a complete certainty, known to the manufacturer and packager, as to what you will NOT get. Carton content/configuration is entirely done to order, not left up to chance. The only chance would be, as I said, if the manufacturer gave instructions to just pack what came through as it arrived, or however they wanted to. Unlikely, but possible.

The slickness is that it turns purchasers into resellers or traders - free promotion/advertising of the product. Raises the noise level, for free at that. That is, unless the buyer wants to keep duplicates, which is OK for AW but not as good as making product change hands and subsequently drawing a percentage of people in as new collectors or enthusiasts.

Not an unusual strategy at all, though the sealed case/"unknown only to buyer" factor isn't really a nice way to do it, as Joe said.

I like old O gauge trains, and twice in the past month I have been presented with "sets" (not boxed, originally packaged sets) that contained a couple of things I really wanted, but they were for sale only with a bunch of stuff that I didn't want at all. I said no to both, fine if folks feel like they need to work that way, but I didn't want to take on the sellers' work for them in either instance. You make your choices. I don't want to become a defacto vendor for new slot cars, nor old train cars.

The slickness is that it turns purchasers into resellers or traders...

...but I didn't want to take on the sellers' work for them in either instance. You make your choices. I don't want to become a defacto vendor for new slot cars, nor old train cars.

Although it never occurred to me in exactly this way, it is a very interesting and valid point.

The real loser in the way AW markets the product is the vendor. When the manufacturer sells direct, and makes it easier or more efficient to get the product direct via the manufacturer, then the vendor loses. The vendor must be able to sell the product for a price less than or equal to the direct price, and have equal access to all the product. Otherwise, why would a customer buy from a vendor? Why as a vendor would you choose to carry a product if the manufactuer is either going to undercut the MSRP or make all the product more available if you buy direct?

Granted that AW is not undercutting the MSRP. That is good, ethical business. They are however making it easier to get complete sets direct from the website as opposed to your local or favorite vendor. That is a questionable practice, but one which is only of concern to vendors. If the vendors continue to buy the product as currently marketed, the consumer has no dog in that fight. It is the vendor who either must open and sort all the cases, or is left with too many slow sellers. The consumer can easily go to the website and order complete sets.

There's only two ways that changes. Customers stop buying the slow sellers or vendors stop ordering.

No one can argue that AW does not have more access to chase cars than vendors. Logic would dictate that they have every car in equal quantity in their stockroom.

As I said, it is not the way I would do business. I would consider my vendors and resellers the lifeblood of my business and would do everything I could to make them successful. More outlets means greater exposure and greater sales.

Joe

By the economic law of supply and demand, if you want a complete set you are in the minority and you should have to pay a premium. That's the way things seem to be working out. Previously, anyone could buy cases and undercut vendor pricing by reselling via auctions. The effect was price erosion at all levels.

I believe that AW should stop releasing 12-car sets and just produce and release individual cars or small sets like Tomy does with the Chaparrals, Shelby Daytonas, etc.

Are vendors forced to buy cases of Tomy cars which include all the different releases from the past year or can they order just the cars they want? I get the impression from some of my conversations with Bud's HO that he can order what he wants from there.

By the economic law of supply and demand, if you want a complete set you are in the minority and you should have to pay a premium. That's the way things seem to be working out. Previously, anyone could buy cases and undercut vendor pricing by reselling via auctions. The effect was price erosion at all levels.

I believe that AW should stop releasing 12-car sets and just produce and release individual cars or small sets like Tomy does with the Chaparrals, Shelby Daytonas, etc.

Are vendors forced to buy cases of Tomy cars which include all the different releases from the past year or can they order just the cars they want? I get the impression from some of my conversations with Bud's HO that he can order what he wants from there.

I look at this from the opposite viewpoint. Customers willing to buy a complete set should be able to buy at a discount. Why would you charge a premium to someone for buying MORE cars? Just from a logic standpoint it doesn't make sense. The less you buy the lower the price?

As I have said before, if AW packed it's product as one car type per case, there would be no scalping or dumping. Vendors would order according to demand.

Vendors buying Tomy, Tyco or Lifelike products from distributors like REH can buy individual cars, sets, etc. There is a discount if you buy an entire case.

Joe

I think if a dealer wants to buy a case of Ford GTs or a case of '69 Chargers he should be able to. Having an assortment case is fine to make sure you get all the cars in the set, but as a dealer if you know you are going to sell the hell out of a Torino Talladega, you should be able to order it that way.

My $.02 worth.

'doba

PS -- When are we going to get the C5-R and C6 Corvettes???????

Didn't Tom create iwheels to cut down on scalping? Then didn't he also create the new chase car scheme where he seems to be the main seller? Doesn't this place him on both sides of the fence?

Reminds me of when thousands of white lightning diecast cars were found in the Johnny Lightning warehouse.

I think if a dealer wants to buy a case of Ford GTs or a case of '69 Chargers he should be able to. Having an assortment case is fine to make sure you get all the cars in the set, but as a dealer if you know you are going to sell the hell out of a Torino Talladega, you should be able to order it that way.

My $.02 worth.

'doba

PS -- When are we going to get the C5-R and C6 Corvettes???????

I think this would be ideal.

I had to vote. Am I the only person who feels Tom is trying to please everyone with his little tweeks and twists with every release? ALL the tjets from release 4 were just AWESOME looking, and the little magnet helps Seth keep the cars on the track.
Thumbs up.

Ok guys, Talk about beating a dead horse .A hand full of you must do it for a living .No care about trashing in this place .This is not a place for you to come bitch about others business . You know who you are just check the locked threads from the AW board for the list of trouble makers.
NEW RULE : If you don't have something good to say take it somewhere else!http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/14

Again If you dont like the way people do their business .Dont give them your money!

I am asking Hank to close this thread hopfuly he dont close the whole thing down!

Ok guys, Talk about beating a dead horse .A hand full of you must do it for a living .No care about trashing in this place .This is not a place for you to come bitch about others business . You know who you are just check the locked threads from the AW board for the list of trouble makers.
NEW RULE : If you don't have something good to say take it somewhere else!http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/14

Again If you dont like the way people do their business .Dont give them your money!

I am asking Hank to close this thread hopfuly he dont close the whole thing down!


Comment pending....

Hank.

I reread all the posts and there is really no bashing going on just an adult discussion about perceived marketing strategies at AW. I don't see any reason to close this thread unless the participants start getting childish

My 2 cents

Roger Corrie
Virginia Beach, VA

Ok guys, Talk about beating a dead horse .A hand full of you must do it for a living .No care about trashing in this place .This is not a place for you to come bitch about others business . You know who you are just check the locked threads from the AW board for the list of trouble makers.
NEW RULE : If you don't have something good to say take it somewhere else!http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/14

Again If you dont like the way people do their business .Dont give them your money!

I am asking Hank to close this thread hopfuly he dont close the whole thing down!

First of all, let me say that I simply enjoy, as part of the hobby, the exchange of opinions I get on some topics. This is not serious stuff, it is toy cars. But there are times when the discussions are quite enlightening.

I see nothing in this thread that warrants it being shut down. No one has gotten nasty, called anyone names, or challenged someone to a fight in the yard after school. There has simply been an exchange of opinions.

No matter what side of an issue you favor, a point of view can always be expressed in an intelligent, respectful manner. If you believe I am one of the posters who has a secret agenda or has not posted in the manner I described, please point out such a post to me.

However, a post such as the one to which I am responding does no one any good. The good thing about writing as opposed to an oral discussion is that you can choose your words carefully.

Obviously, you are a strong supporter of AW. Great. Your support can be expressed in a positive manner. Create counter arguments to the points raised.

There has been both praise and criticism of AW. Deservedly so. That is the nature of opinions.

I have praised AW in a number of posts. I really appreciate the time, effort and money that Tom Lowe has invested in bringing back the old pancake cars. It has been an incredible contribution to this hobby. I think the bodies are done very well. Having never run an AW car, I can’t comment on the chassis. I have also been quite critical of the marketing techniques, although I believe it has mostly been constructive criticism - how I believe the product could be marketed better to the vendor and customer.

I collect Lifelike cars. In another thread I am trying to determine the new cars which were issued in 2007. It is not easy. Lifelike uses the same part number to issue different sets and cars. I am critical there of Lifelike's marketing technique. They should make new releases more obvious. By not doing so, they only hurt themselves with lost sales; and drive collectors nuts.

I criticize Mattel for the lack of commitment to the slot car line, the ridiculous novelty cars and track pieces they make and for the stupid letter they mold into the track surface.

Point is, I am an equal opportunity criticizer. However no one seems to take the criticism of Lifelike, Mattel or any other company personally. Only with the AW line does it seem that some take the criticism as a personal attack. Granted, there are a few who do take the criticism way too far and appropriate action should be taken.

But in a good many posts, there are valid points raised. To simply silence those criticisms, or censor them out, is not a counter argument.

Now, if it's decided that only opinions that heap praise upon AW are appropriate and no criticisms are allowed, as appears to be the sentiment of the above post, then that new rule should be posted.

Joe

I look at this from the opposite viewpoint. Customers willing to buy a complete set should be able to buy at a discount. Why would you charge a premium to someone for buying MORE cars? Just from a logic standpoint it doesn't make sense. The less you buy the lower the price?

Joe

If you wanted to buy a dozen of a common car, a discount would be appropriate, provided there was still ample supply. But with collectible cars, the idea of obtaining the entire collection in a single purchase implies obtaining something that would be of greater value (higher demand). Increased demand with limited supply = higher price.

OH MY GOD ! Tom actually wants his product to sell for retail price. ! Who does he think he is ? Doesn't he know that it the God given right of every BB poster to buy NEW product at way below retail and sometime even below wholesale ! The NERVE of some people . If I were TL I would double the the retail price of my cars. You all pay dash $10.00 for a body with NO chassis and No packaging but B&M when you have to pay a penny over wholesale for a complete car . AND then have the nerve to cry that the product isn't any good. Maybe just maybe if these cars were sold at what they are supposed to be sold at , there would be enough profit to ensure better QC the first time around.

The price at which a vendor/dealer sells a product has no effect on the profit of the manufacturer. The manufacturer sells a product to a distributor/reseller at a set price; what the distributor/reseller does with that product afterwards is inconsequential. The manufacturer can demand all dealers to sell on an equal footing (MSRP) - that would be in the sales contract.
The manufacturer needs to sell at a price which makes the profit necessary to continue doing business.
There is no connection between the price charged by dealers and the QC issue.

Joe

If you wanted to buy a dozen of a common car, a discount would be appropriate, provided there was still ample supply. But with collectible cars, the idea of obtaining the entire collection in a single purchase implies obtaining something that would be of greater value (higher demand). Increased demand with limited supply = higher price.

I see your point. It is not the way I would do it, but you do make a valid argument. If I could sell a complete collection at one time, I would consider that good for business and would not charge a premium.

However, once you walk down that path, you are implying different prices for different cars. That is what started a lot of the firestorm - accusations that dealers were "scalping" the less common cars - in our case the WLs or iWheels. If it is scalping when a dealer does it, is it scalping when the manufacturer does it?

Joe

For me, the issue was actually that virtually anyone could become a reseller simply by buying a sealed case, scalping the less common cars via on-line auctions and then dump the common cars well below the suggested price. This had the effect of crushing the profitability of the more dedicated resellers who actually added value to the supply chain and threatened the hobby as a whole. The tactics I'm seeing from AW seem to have stabilized things.

I understand how this topic might make others "tense" so if you want to continue, maybe we should take this to the private messages where we can exchange email addresses.

The problem that we have here is both “beating the dead horse” and a perceived attempt to skirt the previous problems we have had on this subject. Also, the subject of the poll itself could be considered inflammatory.

After some thought and feedback (see, I do consider your feedback) I am going to open this thread again. As long as the discussion remains civil and “non bashing” it will remain open. Pros and cons of any company is healthy and at the point where we only allow positive comments is the point where we become useless to our members.

I’ll be monitoring this thread to make sure we stay in the spirit of HobbyTalk. ;)

Now that cool

Thanks Hank

Roger Corrie

I have been on the sales side, dealing with "marketing" for 25 years. Product managers and directors deciding we could or couldn't do something, and sometimes being proven wrong, selling everything from shoes to subcutaneously implantable osmotic pumps. The how and why people do what they do to promote their product does interest me. The notion that someone with major money invested in manufacturing and contracts, packaging and distribution, administration and inventory - that person operates without a plan, or outside of a set strategy? That does not make even a little bit of sense to me.

The other area of my interest is where will all this take the HO hobby? What is the value in trying to get a major piece of a small (and shrinking?) pie vs. trying to also appeal to a broader and expanding audience? A rising tide raises all ships, or instead are we fighting for the best cabin on the Titanic, while the ship goes down unnoticed? One comparitor is model railroading, as they started on this road years ago - the average age of enthusiasts, especially in large scales, is way up there - and when there are fewer and fewer operators left, what would happen to the interest of collectors, and the value of their collections? I look at strategies that model railroading has adopted to try to bring in fresh faces, the shows and operating displays, the "World's Greatest Hobby" promotion aimed at people who have never been exposed to it. Look at the success 1/32 slots have had, and it flies in the face of conventional wisdom. After all, they are too large to set up in modern homes, too expensive for cars and track, parts and acccessories, fallen out of sight years ago, they did LOL.

I see where my son learned about what he wanted as a younger kid and now at junior high age. While everything leads to a website, TV (or internet) ads, promotion in store circulars/mailers, shelf frontage in stores, promoted contests/competitions, seeing the stuff in action, and what his friends like - all still there, like trading cards and diecast. Where is the stuff we discuss on this forum? In bits and pieces on ebay mostly.

Everybody has their preferences and favorites - what does it mean if it ends up that a tinier and tinier handful of people are arguing inline vs flat, magnet vs fishtailers....... nuff said, there's hedges to trim and football on.

The way I see it...we need every manufacturer we can get... :thumbsup:

I think the poll was directed towards collectors. How many of you no voters are or like me were collectors? I wouldn't have minded paying MSRP directly to AW if I could have gotten the car color and window combos I wanted. Now I only get what I like. Works out to be about 80 cars less for this release compared to previous releases.

Since release 4 is out where are the numbers that AW said they would release for the R3 cars?

My other problem with AW is the constant litany of chassis problems. You can be sure that if Tyco, Tomy, Scalemaster etc continually turned out bad chassis you would be reading a lot of threads about them. Unfortunately quality control isn't very good at AW. At no time should anyone have to replace parts to get a new car working properly.

Not to sound totally negative the bodies are always very well done. Maybe AWs future is in selling bodies only.

For me, the issue was actually that virtually anyone could become a reseller simply by buying a sealed case, scalping the less common cars via on-line auctions and then dump the common cars well below the suggested price. This had the effect of crushing the profitability of the more dedicated resellers who actually added value to the supply chain and threatened the hobby as a whole. The tactics I'm seeing from AW seem to have stabilized things.

First of all, I want to thank Hank for reopening this thread. May I suggest that maybe a new forum for the business end of the hobby be opened up, where topics such as this can be discussed away from the nuts and bolts discussions of actual collecting.

TK,
The problem as I see it, from a reseller standpoint, is that when you have to order mixed cases, you either get an equal quantity of each car, or a random selection. In either case, you get (hopefully) high demand cars and low demand cars in the same box.

Let's say the high demand cars outsell the low demand cars 4 to 1 and there are no collectors who buy a complete set; all the customers are the "buy what I like" crowd.

If you put all the cars out at the same price, the high demand cars sell quick and the low demand cars hang around. Let's say there are 4 high demand (HD) cars in each case and 8 low demand ( LD) cars. Put them all out and the 4 HD sell quickly along with 1 LD. Now you need more HD cars, so you open another case. Bang - out go the 4 HD and 1 LD and you got 7 more LD cars lying around to keep the other 7 company. So, you opened 24 cars and sold 10. Now you are still sitting on 14 cars that are going to take a while to sell. Meanwhile, your customers want more of the 4 high demand cars. What do you do? Continue to stockpile the LD cars?

The only answer, when the cases are packed in mixed assortments, is to price the cars according to demand. That means some cars are going to sell for MSRP or higher, while others are going into the discount bin. You have to get the price to a point where all the cars sell equally. I do not consider that scalping. It is the only way for the dealer to have long term survival. The dealer cannot continue to accumulate slow sellers. Only by making money on the cars that sell well can the dealer continue to buy mixed cases.

The quick remedy for all scalping and price dumping, as stated a number of times, is to sell each car in it's own case. This allows the dealers to order each car based on demand and he can then sell all cars at the MSRP because he will not be stuck in the 4-to-1 ratio of the mixed cases.

On another list, the comment was made that the way a manufacturer packaged the product does not effect the consumer. It was mentioned that no one tells Coke or Anheuser-Busch how to package their product. I wrote a response to that, and why the manufacturer's packaging method does effect the end customer.

True, no one tells Coca-Cola or Anheuser-Busch how to package their product. Why? Because the product is sold to retailers by product line, not in mixed cases.
For example, let's take 2 liter bottles of the Coke family of products. Coke now sells each variety in it's own case of 6 bottles. A retailer buys the product by the case; however each case only contains one variety. The retailer is not forced to buy an equal quantity of each case. The consumer doesn't care about packaging because the reseller can order and stock product according to the demand.
Now, assume that Coke decides to package it's product in mixed cases only. Now the retailer must buy each product in equal quantity. Want a bottle of Coke Classic? You need to buy a full case which contains one bottle of CC and 5 bottles of other flavors (New Coke, Diet Coke, Coke Zero, Cherry Coke and one other random bottle).
The retailer knows that Coke Classic outsells all the other varieties, but cannot order more CC than anything else. So he orders a few cases, quickly sells out of CC (because of the demand) and is left with the other flavors. Do you order more cases to get more CC and be stuck with even more of the less popular varieties?
The customer now asks why the store no longer has CC but has tons of other flavors. The customer gets affected by the packaging stategy of the manufactuer.
This is the marketing stategy of AW. And it is why there is scalping (soon bottles of Coke Classis start showing up on eBay) and why, sooner rather than later, the retailer gets stuck with too many bottles of other Coke products and is unable and unwilling to buy more product.
And it is why people (and retailers) then switch to Pepsi, which still packs it's cases to retailers with only one variety per case. The customer likes the fact that all varieties of Pepsi are always available on store shelves and the price remains stable. The retailer likes it because he can order only the flavors he needs. The manufactuer is happy because the sales keep rolling in.
Meanwhile the Coke guy is wondering why no one is buying his product any more.

Thanks...Joe

I always disagreed with the closed thread issue, so thanks for leaving this one be Hank, I would prefer personal "time outs" and suspensions.
Big Kev, this board don't need more moderators, it needs all people to act civil. If you don't agree with someones opinion and want to cuss them out, send it to their email.

In short, on the topic at hand, I love most of autoworlds doings, the "I" wheels could stay, but would be nicer if we could purchase singles, and go back to a few white thunders as opposed to "they all come as rare cars".
Ex: make the hummer, torino and broncos "case" white thunders, but make the ford gt, superbird and 55 chevy "dealer only" , or "I wheel" cars.

I would have to agree with what Sethndaddy said about Mr. Lowe trying to make everyone happy. Unfortunately not everyone is. I don't think he could make everyone happy no matter what he did.

I buy the cars I like. I can't afford to collect. Just too much out there and more coming from Autoworld for me. They've had 3 or 4 releases in the last year if I'm right. Don't get me wrong, I like the frequency of the releases.

Mr. Lowe is probably going to try or do things in the future we do or don't like. I think with the IWheels he made it easier and less exspensive to get those cars without going through hoops and paying too much for them.

As far as the red vs smoke windshields and rarer color cars now, Aurora did that in the 60's and 70's and I like it. History repeating itself. Slot cars were way more popular back then. You could go to major retailers or the local mom and pop stores and pick them up. Nobody had a clue what cars were rare. Most people were running them. Goshen, Indiana had 4 stores you could buy slot cars from. There was 0 for a while currently there is 1. And no major retailer is carrying single slot cars currently. Randy.

The problem that we have here is both “beating the dead horse” and a perceived attempt to skirt the previous problems we have had on this subject. Also, the subject of the poll itself could be considered inflammatory. That was the point in asking it to be removed what it turned into didnt matter. Civil or not later in the thread

After some thought and feedback (see, I do consider your feedback) I am going to open this thread again. As long as the discussion remains civil and “non bashing” it will remain open. Pros and cons of any company is healthy and at the point where we only allow positive comments is the point where we become useless to our members.As I said in the "We need mod thread" if something slot is bad post here for sure Pros and cons of any company is healthy but once you beat the dead horse for a wile burry it before it stinks the whole place up.

I’ll be monitoring this thread to make sure we stay in the spirit of HobbyTalk. ;)

One more thing I do not work for TL or dan or any other slot co. I just like to see posts keep "in the spirit of HobbyTalk".

As far as the red vs smoke windshields and rarer color cars now, Aurora did that in the 60's and 70's and I like it. History repeating itself. Slot cars were way more popular back then. You could go to major retailers or the local mom and pop stores and pick them up. Nobody had a clue what cars were rare. Most people were running them. Goshen, Indiana had 4 stores you could buy slot cars from. There was 0 for a while currently there is 1. And no major retailer is carrying single slot cars currently. Randy.


Back in the 60s and 70s, no one had an idea what was out there. Now everything is common knowledge. It makes a difference. The internet, discussion groups and the ability to order online or access stores thousands of miles away has changed the marketplace.

If you carefully read though my previous posts, I am trying to point out that the marketing stategy of AW is eventually going to discourage vendors from carrying the product. Plus, and here's a very important point, Aurora did not sell direct. The only access to the product was via the mom and pop stores, or the retail outlets. Vendors for Aurora did not have to compete with Aurora.

If a customer knows that all the cars are more easily obtainable directly from the manufacturer than from a local vendor, they will go to the manufacturer. For a vendor to be able to carry a product, they have to know that they will not be price undercut by the manufacturer, and they have to know that the manufacturer does not have an advantage in access to the product. If, as a vendor, you know the manufacturer will sell for less than you can (which is not the case here), has acces to more desireable product than you, or allows special deals if you order direct from the website (like the procedure for the release 2 iWheels), then you are not operating on a level playing field.

Many guys bash the resellers and seem to consider them adversaries. Many believe they do not add "value" to the product. Buying the product from the manufacturer and making it available in multiple outlets, and taking it to local shows, is their contribution; just like any other vendor/reseller in any other industry. What "added value" does a Wal-Mart, Sears or any other store bring to a product? A standard is being placed on slot car vendors which is not applied to other resellers.

When you look back on the JL days and accusastions of "scalping", think about this. In order to get three WLs, a person had to buy a master case of 72 cars. Would you do that, no matter how much you could get for a WL? You still have to sell 69 other cars. It is no way to get rich. I would gladly pay extra to someone for the three WLs to save having to buy 69 other cars.

If you think that the vendor/reseller network is not important to AW or this hobby, then all my arguments mean nothing. We would then need to buy all our slot car products direct from the manufacturers because the vendor network has disappeared. But if you believe that in order for this hobby to succeed, we need full time vendors able to make a living. And part time vendors need to make a profit.

If you are looking for product, do you call the manufacturer or your favorite vendor? What would you do if the vendors did not exist? Would that be good for the hobby?

I would really like to hear some counter arguments. Put yourself in the position of thinking about becoming a vendor for AW, or any company that markets a product the same way. Would you become a vendor? Would you accept and be comfortable with the way the product is packaged? How would you price the product if you are forced into buying product in equal or unknown quantities? How would you move both the desireable and undesireable product?

Thanks...Joe

I'd end up with a garage full of slot cars...

I'm still looking for the downside...

/kidding

The marketing angle and what it leads to....

There is a highly effective strategy in place to sell a small group of people 48++ cars a year each. The high volume purchasers are securely in the fold.

Is there also a strategy to sell to people who might buy only 4 or 5 cars a year? Yes and no, the vast majority of this seems to be through the resale market. It would be interesting to know how many one or two car purchases are made through retail stores, dealers, or direct vs. ebay. Wonder how much advertising revenue is spent on each? Yes, your fees on ebay are dedicated advertising expenses. Not a publicly held company, I guess, or those internal numbers would be available.

Resellers can move the product for you. But, can they grow the brand, or are they just as likely to dump slower moving inventory and drag it down? The age old issue of counting on the agent, not on the company.....

In the short term, sales are sales, whether items are purchased in lots of one or 100.
If you're in it for the long haul, down the road would you rather depend on 100 potentially large purchasers to make your numbers, or would you like to have 25,000 to draw on? How many "outlets" - places to purchase cars from - is sufficient?

Back in the 60s and 70s, no one had an idea what was out there. Now everything is common knowledge. It makes a difference. The internet, discussion groups and the ability to order online or access stores thousands of miles away has changed the marketplace.

If you carefully read though my previous posts, I am trying to point out that the marketing stategy of AW is eventually going to discourage vendors from carrying the product. Plus, and here's a very important point, Aurora did not sell direct. The only access to the product was via the mom and pop stores, or the retail outlets. Vendors for Aurora did not have to compete with Aurora.

If a customer knows that all the cars are more easily obtainable directly from the manufacturer than from a local vendor, they will go to the manufacturer. For a vendor to be able to carry a product, they have to know that they will not be price undercut by the manufacturer, and they have to know that the manufacturer does not have an advantage in access to the product. If, as a vendor, you know the manufacturer will sell for less than you can (which is not the case here), has acces to more desireable product than you, or allows special deals if you order direct from the website (like the procedure for the release 2 iWheels), then you are not operating on a level playing field.

Many guys bash the resellers and seem to consider them adversaries. Many believe they do not add "value" to the product. Buying the product from the manufacturer and making it available in multiple outlets, and taking it to local shows, is their contribution; just like any other vendor/reseller in any other industry. What "added value" does a Wal-Mart, Sears or any other store bring to a product? A standard is being placed on slot car vendors which is not applied to other resellers.

When you look back on the JL days and accusastions of "scalping", think about this. In order to get three WLs, a person had to buy a master case of 72 cars. Would you do that, no matter how much you could get for a WL? You still have to sell 69 other cars. It is no way to get rich. I would gladly pay extra to someone for the three WLs to save having to buy 69 other cars.

If you think that the vendor/reseller network is not important to AW or this hobby, then all my arguments mean nothing. We would then need to buy all our slot car products direct from the manufacturers because the vendor network has disappeared. But if you believe that in order for this hobby to succeed, we need full time vendors able to make a living. And part time vendors need to make a profit.

If you are looking for product, do you call the manufacturer or your favorite vendor? What would you do if the vendors did not exist? Would that be good for the hobby?

I would really like to hear some counter arguments. Put yourself in the position of thinking about becoming a vendor for AW, or any company that markets a product the same way. Would you become a vendor? Would you accept and be comfortable with the way the product is packaged? How would you price the product if you are forced into buying product in equal or unknown quantities? How would you move both the desireable and undesireable product?

Thanks...Joe

I've seen your point all along here Joe. Back when slot cars were king, it was a racer/children's hobby. Like you said, nobody knew what was out there. Sure some guys might've been collecting, but very few.

Now it's a collector/racer adult hobby. I've been looking at this from my racer viewpoint. Someone who just buys small parts of each release and takes them out of the package and puts the volts through them.

The vendors have been working their tails off to get complete releases to those fortunate people that can buy them. I wanted to become a vendor but I've seen and heard from a couple of vendors their confusion and fustration over the current packaging, that nip my idea of being a vendor.

But with the added color of windows/low production of certain car colors it's kept the collectors in there buying.

If single slot cars were in the large discount stores like Wal-Mart, Target, and such. This thread wouldn't exsist.

I hope it gets to a point where everyone is happy. I respect the vendors and buy from them at the shows when I can. I hope they all can make money so I can continue to see them at the shows. Randy.

If single slot cars were in the large discount stores like Wal-Mart, Target, and such. This thread wouldn't exsist. True.

To sell single slot cars in Wal Mart or anywhere else like that you'd pretty much have to sell a track set to run them on too.

However, if sets were sold at Wal Mart (say at Christmas) with limited single cars, catalogs of current releases included, wonder what that would do for vendor business the rest of the year?

Perhaps Tom was conducting an experiment on the 'limited chase car' among the regular issue cars. He sees that it is an unpopular concept, and R5 will revert to the old packaging procedures.

Just a thought.