Yes that system will work with any of the gtb speedos.

Bill yes it will work with futaba's fast systems. You don.t have to get just the spectrum one to work with your radio, you can use the regular 4 cell gtb.

I was just reading through all the latest postings an just have to put in my 2 cents worth once more. Everyones points are well made, but I think Wayne touched on what is realy important here. Racing verses rnning for the record. When I started 19 years ago we were running modified buggies and just racing to win. As the hobby grew and about the time the pan cars reached thier peak at our track I saw things change from RACING TO WIN to- GET OUT OF MY WAY IM RUNNING FOR THE RECORD. Im not saying this to be critical or put anyone down, just a fact. Everyone has the right to run in whichever class they chose, with respect to the other racers, faster or slower. Its my opinion the the best solution comes in stacking the heats to keep drivers of equal skills together. As Wayne stated the slower can learn from racing with the faster. This dosent mean they have to be in the same heats.A 60 lap car thrown in with 64 lap cras usually turns into a 58 lap car. Having to always move over dosent help to learn setup and improve driving skills. Although with help from the more skilled drivers , most will improve. And a heat of 4 60 lap cars will soon become 61-62 lap cars and so on. As for those chasing the record, with the heats stacked and everyone running on thier own clock, those running for the record will have a clean shot at it. Also to repeat myself, lets not get too many classes going if it dilutes the one we have. I would vote for a 10.5 class for the more skilled drivers who want to go faster, as oposed to a 17.5 class. Ther are already classes such as spec-legend and sk mod for the novices to learn setup and hone thier driving skills. To start a 17.5 class would be just like the Bush series with the more skilled dominating and the others will only get fustrated and drop out. I have seen this happen all to often, and in the end 13.5 will be the loser. Think about it as you all put on 10 pounds tomrow, enjoy your Thanksgiving. See you Sat. Ray

Check this out this is from bumps and jumps web site-

ATTN OVAL RACERS

Starting this week - we will have Sportsman gas truck and a general sportsman class - we will combine late models, sprints, and edms into the general sportsman class

These classes are designed for drivers who are not within 15% of the fastest cars Example late models run 48 laps - 85% of that is 41 laps - if you can not turn that many laps you should be in the sportsman class Here is my thought on where the cut off should be for sportsman classes Nitro Sprints 40 laps or less Nitro EDM 40 laps or less Nitro Late Model 41 laps or less Gas Truck 34 laps or less I am hoping that this will improve the racing and allow some of you who are sitting on the sidelines in fear of getting in the way a place to feel comfortable. THERE IS NO ALCOHOL OR DRUGS ALLOWED ON THE PROPERTY IF FOUND YOU WILL BE ASKED TO LEAVE!

Bill yes it will work with futaba's fast systems. You don.t have to get just the spectrum one to work with your radio, you can use the regular 4 cell gtb. Thanks dale and cap 11:thumbsup:

Ray I have been talking to some people about starting the 17.5 class for the younger ones and as soon as there is enough with out us we drop out and either go back to one class or go to 10.5, cause if I help to get 17.5 going I'm still going to run 13.5.

Ray you posted exactly what I have been trying to say in my posts. I hope everyone heeds the words of the seaoned AKA Old fart racers like us and keep the class strong! So far the racing this year is the best it has been since the early 90's and I think everyone is having fun again. To all the guys who think they need help to get better just ask . I think I speak for all the seasoned racers that whatever we can do to get the new or slower guys faster and handling better we will!!
Bonzai just get that system and join the fun.

Hey isn't it too late for you old farts to be up right now.. :lol:

OK now my 2 cents on the classes. The best class to start for a second class should be a slower class for the new blood and maybe some old ones. The speed of 13.5 is faster than what we older and seasoned racers started at. 4 cell stock is just as fast if not faster than 6 cell stock was years ago. Now that the jump to brushless is here, there needs to be a class for them to start at. The 13.5 is at the speed of the old 6 cell mod, how many started in mod? Not many I bet. Legends and SK will not teach enough about what pancar racing is. There's really not too many things that a legend can teach somebody about a pancar, SK isn't much better because the adjustments are so limited. What is needed is a class for them to learn how to set up and maintain their cars with the shot at winning some too. Its not fair to them to be having to move out of the way every couple laps for the guys that are hooked up. The slower class will also help them to hone their skills driving and setup. Once they feel they are ready to move up the transition to 13.5 will be smoother and they should be able to compete. As always help from the seasoned racers will also make it easier to make the jump. The more seasoned racers should leave the 17.5 class for the newer and guys that feel they need the time to improve before running a faster class.

Sorry Shadow, but I disagee with you. Spec, legends etc. may not teach pan car set ups, but novice racers can learn what it takes to make a car respond to changes as well as what changes are needed. Also driving skills are improved by focusing on lap times and concistancey no matter what class one runs in. What good is having the newest, fastest state of the art equipment if you cant drive it? And copying others setups, although always helpfull, is like a cheat sheet for a test, realy dosent help if one dosent understand what the changes do and how they effect the handeling of the car. Of course we all have different levels of ability and some will move up faster than others. Over the years Ive seen too many new people enter our hobby only to leave because they arent fast enough and cant compete with the fast cars right from the start. I truly believe that we need to help the novices learn to walk before thy can run, case in point, look at Franklin. He worked hard, moved up, and with everyones help he is doing great in 13.5: we need more Franklins, and it is up to us to help these upcoming racers if we whant to see the hobby continue, and to have better and cleaner racing.

To add to Rays post, A pan car is also A) harder to build than a legend, spec car or SK mod, B) More expensive, C)Harder to set up, D)Much faster therefore harder to drive for newbies.
I personally agree with Bill Marshalls theory that pan cars are not for beginners. I myself did start with a pan car years ago but I was 25 years old and had the time ,Money and dedication to put into learning to drive the cars and set them up properly before competing against the seasoned racers.
Once the newbies want to move up to pan car they should already be able to drive a straight line and have car control. My case in point would be little Braydon. He started in the legends and spec classes and his transition into pan cars is going smoothly. I think if people start with pan cars (no matter how slow you make them go) they will soon get frustrated with all the adjustments and drop out or go to a different class and we would loose them any way.
Maybe we should encourage the crowd that have been running legends, trucks, spec etc... for years to buy a pan car and move up to 13.5 and continue to grow that class? These racers already know how to get around the track and with a little help from us they might just really take a liking to the pan cars?

And lets not forget young Ed Stada. He has worked his way up as well. All three of these younger drivers are going to be the next generation of top drivers at the track. And again I must stress the point that this is the direction needed. We must encourage racers of all ages to learn and move up. And this can best be done by not only helping others learn, but more importantly by setting a good example on and off the track with clean racing and a good aditude. Over the years many a racer has stated the they wouldnt run pan car classes because of the ruff racing and often poor attitudes. Whether this be the case or not, we need to prevent this type of behavior from keeping others from moving up.

Ray I have been talking to some people about starting the 17.5 class for the younger ones and as soon as there is enough with out us we drop out and either go back to one class or go to 10.5, cause if I help to get 17.5 going I'm still going to run 13.5.

Bart if you want to start a 17.5 class then you should. it might take off who knows. to start out it will be you, dirk, jeromy d, tommy n, and a few more maybe. if thats the line up i can pretty much bet that either Bart or Dirk will win. and tommy and jeromy behind them. i dont see how thats very different then if they just were in 13.5. atleast jeromy and tommy would hav some other guys on the same lap and maybe end up mid feild.

I have a busy day today, the fam coming over and all. I can only aford one class till after x-mas. By then something will be astablished and and easier to make a decision on. As my 13.5 car still needs some tuning and hopefully by then I'll be where I belong with the rest and be able to move up or out.
All you guys have a HAPPY THANKSGIVING and see you on Saturday for some more fun.

Had to end that post abruptly, wife has me on KP. Again dale helps me to make my point. In the time since Dale started racing, the technical level, especialy in pan cars, has grown by leaps and bounds, to what can be called state of the art. Therefore making the learning curve from novice to pro much harder. Here again I will use the Stradas as an example. Young Ed is a talented lad coming from a racing family with a history of sucess and a lot of knowlege. Yet his dad started him in legend and spec etc., and he has learned well and worked his way up, and he will be one of the ones to beat in the future. Im sure his dad didnt start him in these classes just because they are cheaper. But instead his brought him up a step at a time. All to often new drivers feel infeirior if they are not running the best stuff, with the best people. I think egos are best left home, and rely more on common sense and learning. Being a little humble at fist will pay off in the long run. Anyone starting out in R/C racing would be best to follow the Stradas lead and they cant go wrong.

for now im gonna start 13.5 cause im not going o be able to afford a 17.5 with rebuilding my whole car and all

Tnetzley, I don't see a problem you running 13.5. When racing against cars that are faster it doesn't take much to move over and let them go. Communication on the driver stand being aware of who you racing with and common courtesy are huge for beginners and season racers. Ask questions if you need help. Forget about the speed and focus on getting your car to handle the speed will follow shortly. Ask someone else to drive your car and see what they feel.

So who's racing what this weekend?

Walter

wow this is starting to become a problem with the racing alot of ppl are sayingthat some ppl should go down to 17.5 so tht might be a good idea i am going to let you guys decide it for me if you think that i should go to 17.5 i will because x-mas is coming and i am going to be getting alot of money so i could afford one but if you guys are ok with me running 13.5 i will stay in thati just hope that i am good enough for 13.5 so i dont have to spen more money on stuff that i am only going to use for a little while and maybe i can just put that money for the 4600 packs and maybe be able to keep up with batteries and not know that that is the reason i am slower so this way i kow it is the way that i am driving and how the car is set upso for this weekend i am in it for 13.5 if there is anyone that is going to run because with all this talk of the 10.5 and the 17.5 i think that 13.5 is going to dissapate and turn into a 5 or 6 car event and as of right now i like how the classis i am finally getting up to speed so if i have to switch classes it would be like starting all over again so who else is going to run 13.5 this weekend?

I will be coming to race with U guys on Sat. 13.5

JW#62

and i agree with everyone useing your actualle name helps alot you know who everyone is

Disagree thats fine but, you've raced for years and your running 13.5 which is fine. Now the jump from SK, legends or even novice (which is nothing but a demo derby most nights) is too much to pan car and it will take some time to learn. Give them a stepping class into pancars not throw them into a class thats faster than any of us started at. Now there are guys that have made the jump and have done it with some success so far and they are improving each week which is great for all of us. But there are guys that don't race that often and ones that are just getting back into racing that already have the pan cars and feel they are much more comfortable with a class near the speed of 17.5/stock. Thats like telling somebody that raced stock before you have to run 3.5 instead of running the next faster class 13.5. With each step they take will teach them something new about their cars.

Sorry Shadow, but I disagee with you. Spec, legends etc. may not teach pan car set ups, but novice racers can learn what it takes to make a car respond to changes as well as what changes are needed. Also driving skills are improved by focusing on lap times and concistancey no matter what class one runs in. What good is having the newest, fastest state of the art equipment if you cant drive it? And copying others setups, although always helpfull, is like a cheat sheet for a test, realy dosent help if one dosent understand what the changes do and how they effect the handeling of the car. Of course we all have different levels of ability and some will move up faster than others. Over the years Ive seen too many new people enter our hobby only to leave because they arent fast enough and cant compete with the fast cars right from the start. I truly believe that we need to help the novices learn to walk before thy can run, case in point, look at Franklin. He worked hard, moved up, and with everyones help he is doing great in 13.5: we need more Franklins, and it is up to us to help these upcoming racers if we whant to see the hobby continue, and to have better and cleaner racing.

The point is make the effort to start the class for the guys that would rather run 17.5 than 13.5, get some cars to run it each week and get out of it and let them race with each other. It would be a place for them race and have fun. I only said I'd do it was to help the car count and help out with the guys what will be running the class. Hopefully it will get going quick and I can sell the motor to someone that is entering the class.Bart if you want to start a 17.5 class then you should. it might take off who knows. to start out it will be you, dirk, jeromy d, tommy n, and a few more maybe. if thats the line up i can pretty much bet that either Bart or Dirk will win. and tommy and jeromy behind them. i dont see how thats very different then if they just were in 13.5. atleast jeromy and tommy would hav some other guys on the same lap and maybe end up mid feild.

Shadow, your points are well made and valid, I would just like to see everyone talk this over and make the best decision possible. Years ago the same issues arose in 6-cell pan, a B-pan class was created, which only created more controversy and just about killed the pan car classes. The need for a next level class is valid. Dale and I created the BUSH class back in the ninties and have been laughed at and the class put down. Why? When 19t was running 62 laps at what cost?, we were turning 60 laps with a $50 motor and battery. We created that class so that races could move up from spec to pan and still use some of the items they already had. The class also offered an alternitive to the pricey and often elusive motor and battery issues. The class still exsits and can easily be used as a step up, without the need for a new class. also racers new to the pan car ranks wouldnt have to buy brushless systems right away they would only need to buy a couple of inexpensive motors and batteries to get started. Or will that ego thing say thats just not good enough? Makes alot more sense to me for somone moving up to run bush rather than invest in brushless 17.5 . Also because the class and rules already are in place, this eliminates the need for a new class.

You all are making good points but it has come down to where we all need to make a decision and thats not gonna happened for a while so we should make a poll and vote on it

yea i cant beleive i am actually going to say this but i agree with tnetzley i think we should take a vote on what classes people want to run and see if there is enough people to start that class. and i also agree with ray bush is a great class from moving up from spec or legend or sk because it is basicly close to the same speed and you can use some of the same batteries and motors without having to invest more money it is a great class to move up to for a first pan car class

wow this is starting to become a problem with the racing alot of ppl are sayingthat some ppl should go down to 17.5 so tht might be a good idea i am going to let you guys decide it for me if you think that i should go to 17.5 i will because x-mas is coming and i am going to be getting alot of money so i could afford one but if you guys are ok with me running 13.5 i will stay in thati just hope that i am good enough for 13.5 so i dont have to spen more money on stuff that i am only going to use for a little while and maybe i can just put that money for the 4600 packs and maybe be able to keep up with batteries and not know that that is the reason i am slower so this way i kow it is the way that i am driving and how the car is set upso for this weekend i am in it for 13.5 if there is anyone that is going to run because with all this talk of the 10.5 and the 17.5 i think that 13.5 is going to dissapate and turn into a 5 or 6 car event and as of right now i like how the classis i am finally getting up to speed so if i have to switch classes it would be like starting all over again so who else is going to run 13.5 this weekend?


franklin for xmas can you ask santa for a PERIOD! or an EXCLAMATION POINT! lol wow that sentence was long :)

Remember the days when it was 6 cell stk or mod? I do, I don't feel we need a 17.5 class as now that we are getting familiar with brushless racing more racers are going to step up to 10.5. That would be the modern day equivilent of the stk and mod days. This past weekend at Kranzels there was the strongest showing locally of 10.5 cars I've seen so far, it would suck if we wound up right back where we were with so many classes and 5 guys in each. I am willing to help anyone there if they are having a tough time getting a handle on their car and I know there are other drivers who would gladly lend a hand. I will be there bright and early with the 2007 13.5 series champion Johnathan, and I am sure he will help anyone that asks also. Less classes and the thrill of making the big show is the way to go.
Thats me 2 cents


Doug P

doug its not the newer, younger guys that want a slower class. Bart and Dirk want newer guys to have a 17.5 class because maybe they arent good enough yet for 13.5? i personally dont think anyone should go out of the way to bring a new class in. if a new class happens then great but why start it just to start it. i like racing with everyone and im not looking for any records so if i have to slow down from time to time to make a clean pass on a new racer then thats ok. if im good enough on that day then ill be fine and maybe make the A main anyways. i also dont think we are making any new racer start out in to fast of a pan car class. the racers choose to race 13.5 becuase theres not much maintnence and its a lot of fun. if new pan car racers want to start a slower class im sure they will.

happy thanks giving guys :)

New guy brings a full cooler :thumbsup:
What do YENS drink at Marshalls??????????
JW#62

I hope everyone had a Happy Thanksgiving, and is resting and getting ready for saturday.


P.S. lets stop all this talking about extra classes and see were it go's from here

just got home and caught up on all my reading WOW!!
hope everyone had a good thanksgiving,
as that singer Rihanna says "shut up and drive!!"

had a great thanksgiving. i ate like a pig. now lets go racing lol

isnt that canabalism!!! :)

you should talk :) remind me to wall you next time we race lol

I Got 3000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but thats your name, oh and way to go 3000 dont you work!!!LOL

Your make a good point about busch used to be the stepping stone from spec to stock. But since busch has disappeared the next logical thing is to replace busch and stock with 17.5 since some guys have already bought new brushless speedos. Towards the end of the carpet season there were close to 12-15 guys in 19t, 8-10 in stock and around 6 or so in busch. Now that there are more guys running 13.5, mostly the old 19t class and some of the stock guys we're up to almost 20 cars in 13.5 which is great but there are a few guys that ran stock and busch that got let behind and haven't returned this season to a pancar class because they feel the 13.5 is a little too fast for them at this time. My point is they can make the steps up each level in speed. I'll bet in time we'll be asking these guys for help in the future so we can keep up.
Shadow, your points are well made and valid, I would just like to see everyone talk this over and make the best decision possible. Years ago the same issues arose in 6-cell pan, a B-pan class was created, which only created more controversy and just about killed the pan car classes. The need for a next level class is valid. Dale and I created the BUSH class back in the ninties and have been laughed at and the class put down. Why? When 19t was running 62 laps at what cost?, we were turning 60 laps with a $50 motor and battery. We created that class so that races could move up from spec to pan and still use some of the items they already had. The class also offered an alternitive to the pricey and often elusive motor and battery issues. The class still exsits and can easily be used as a step up, without the need for a new class. also racers new to the pan car ranks wouldnt have to buy brushless systems right away they would only need to buy a couple of inexpensive motors and batteries to get started. Or will that ego thing say thats just not good enough? Makes alot more sense to me for somone moving up to run bush rather than invest in brushless 17.5 . Also because the class and rules already are in place, this eliminates the need for a new class.

Can't you read he said he ate like one not ate one:roll: isnt that canabalism!!! :)

Now we got to call you Mr.3000:woohoo: I Got 3000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys have enough racers in 13.5 to keep the less skilled racers in heats away from those with more experience. In my many trips to Marshalls to race, the bigger issue is who ends up with who in their heat. I think Bill Marshall needs to address the issue and properly put the heats together so like racers with like skills are grouped together. I understand at trophy races this should not be the norm, but for weekly racing it's a must. How is a newer racer going to get his car tuned in when he's moving over for a faster racer every lap or two, it's not fair to either party involved. my $.02, Bill B

well sence i don't have school today :woohoo: . i am more than likely going to go and get some practice. i am hoping to finally find the key gear ratio and find the right groove for my car. well hopfully i can find something out so this way i can find a way to get into the upper c main and maybe the lower B main. the car is cappable of it but i am not to sure about the driver lol. so whos in for racing this week in 13.5? and joe i am going to get you, dale, and i the corner. lol well hope to see you all up there today and if not tommaorw.

Hey Bill you sould come down this weekend I here there's going to be a very big crowd and if we get out late you can sleep at dirks lol.

We have a Toys for Tot's race at Turn 4 Sunday, and the drive is much shorter, an hour is much easier than 3 1/2 hours, and that's each way. I may try to get there once more before the Cabin Fever race. I love running there, it's just so far away.

Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving, see ya later, Bill B

well sence i don't have school today :woohoo: . i am more than likely going to go and get some practice. i am hoping to finally find the key gear ratio and find the right groove for my car. well hopfully i can find something out so this way i can find a way to get into the upper c main and maybe the lower B main. the car is cappable of it but i am not to sure about the driver lol. so whos in for racing this week in 13.5? and joe i am going to get you, dale, and i the corner. lol well hope to see you all up there today and if not tommaorw.

good boy! thanks man thats great. and im sure you will be better this week. just need that one perfectly clean heat for 62. and im sure your car will just keep gettin better. hey i need that B L speedo i let you borrow back this week to put in a car. i think this week you should be good with money enough for Dot to get you that speedo. :) see you at the track!

ps ill let you know if i can pick you up later or tomorrow. cyaaa

Question? I'm cycleing my batteries and want to know what are deccent dis chg times and avg volts? I'm charging on futaba and dis chg on competition at 35 amps. Also what should volts be at 240 seconds which is a 4 min race.

I've also been storing them with 1400mah in them. Did'nt get a nurse yet. Is this ok.

Wayne you showin this week next week?

Brett i think you should Pm either of the Salvis brothers. they seem to have more info on batteries then almost anyone.

Brett i dont know if wayne will be at marshalls next week. i think its his b-day or somthing lol. Chris is coming to my wedding so he wont be there. hey anyone thats coming to my wedding next week give a shout out lol im still trying to figure how much beer we need :) Lisa told me if i get drunk she might have to beat the $hit out of me lol ;) niceeeeeeeee

Thanks Joe I ll try that. anyone else? Come on thats what this site is for.