Hi Guys,
A few years back I put together a four lane layout at my parent's house (where I still spend a good amount of time) using some of the original Aurora MM and AFX track I had. I never really put the time into getting the layout "permanent", but I'm starting to do that now, especially since I think I've got the final version of the layout set.
This is truly a "Grandcheapskate" special, as I am using every piece of scrap wood I can find to put this together. This will be the trial run for a huge Tyco (actually Mattel and my stuff) layout I will be doing at my house; the amout of new Tyco/Mattel track I have is amazing. I may even go eight lanes!
Anyway, back to the MM layout. It is on a 7 x 5 board and has two levels. I have a couple questions for those who have worked with, and tuned MM track.
First off, I am using the original Aurora electric lap counters. I have one Aurora power pack per lane, with another dedicated to the lap counter. However the problem I have always had, even back in the day, is that the lap counter track never seems to have enough power for almost every car. Unless you are going fast enough for your momentum to carry you over, you could easily get stuck on that track. How do you get enough power to that track so the car gets enough power?
Also, do you experiance some cars that don't trip the lap counter, or at least don't trip it every time? The only way I can figure that happening is that the car doesn't make contact with the rails long enough while on the lap counter track. Seems impossible the car could "fly" over a 9" straight.
I also had a problem where one of the lap counters would be unable to flip the ten's digit. It would get to 9 and then stay there. I think I fixed that by unscrewing the arm that flips the digits and reseating it. It seems to work now, although the ten's digit doesn't line up in the windows until you get the one's digit to about 4 or 5. The ten's digit uses a magnet to line up the numbers, and I was hoping a stronger magnet would do the trick. I tried putting in additional magnets (from a Tyco 440) in the back of the lap counter, but it seemed to have no effect.
And how about tuning MM track? Right now the track is not screwed down, although that is in the works. In fact, I think I'm going to sink the track in 1/4" MDF board. Dang - I'll have to break down and actually buy something.
Anyway, it seems every car except T-Jets really make a lot noise going from piece to piece, seem to bounce a lot (AFX style) and some cars actually get stuck in certain places. This is either a rail height problem, or a problem because a piece is slightly "twisted" to accomodate elevation changes. There are spots where some cars just stop, while 99% of the other cars have no problem - although they may have problems in other spots. I have one car that refuses to go over one piece of track. No other car has that problem, and this car has no problem with any other piece. Problem is the piece of track is an adapter and I have no replacements.
I know I can put together a file/feeler guage tool and file down the rails to a consistant height. That may require me to pull the track from the table - which I have to do anyway if I sink the track. What I'm wondering is how much work is involved in getting MM track to be smooth and consistant where I can run cars other than T-Jets.
Also, how often do you have to clean the MM rails? Seems after a week or two, the rails are showing some signs of oxidation and a slight going over with very fine sandpaper cleans them up. Does MM track oxidize faster than other brands, even if used almost daily?

Thanks...Joe

Joe, Providing the rail ends arent floating, the contact tabs have been buffed, and the track is GENTLY screwed down and shimmed to level the track surface at the joint; I hand file joints from the high side to the low side which ever way it lays so you dont take material off the already short side. Try and stretch the repair to either side of the joint by approx two inches give er take. You'll actually feel this with the file when your working the area if your paying attention. The file will tell you when it's right. Then Dress the repair with a fine honing stone and use a good abrasive eraser to buff it a little. I like the gritty ole Atlas or Lifelike yellow ones. Always work in the rail direction. To rid yourself of the clickety clacks you have to do the joints that fall away as well, not just the stub yer shoe ones. Is it easy? Hell no! Was it hard on my fingies? Heck yeah! Was it worth the effort? Yoooo Betcha! Night and day!

The rail question is two fold I think. Although oxidation is a reality. I'm thinkin that what we really are seeing is the build up of tire scuzz, grease, and dust. Makes a pretty good insulator! The oxidation comes later where the greasy scuzz isnt prevalent.

Cheap track cleaner. I'll post a picture of my Zoomboni here so ya get the idea. The added monkey motion was more of a lark although it does serve a purpose. The point of attack is the old school hard eraser. Find a magnet car that has suitable body work to hold a chunk of eraser. It should just float/gravity feed. In this case the chunk is captive in the forward cab area between the grill and screw post. WORKS GREAT! Scuzz be gone in short order. Addmittedly the extra shoes of the Zoomboni's tyco truck chassis would be an asset on really oxidized track, but for track that gets used periodically, like mine, a Tomy turbo or some other anti gravity rig with an eraser crammed in the appropriate spot should be fine once you get the joints honed down.

Dont use the old lap counters myself, they just make me mad! LOL.

Had one of those darn pieces of track you described. After considerable aggrevation I finally replaced the darn thing, took it outside and beat the little bastage with my four pound hammer.
Hiiiiyah!!!!.... LOL

Hi Bill,
Would a fine grinding stone, like the one on the old AJ's Track Cleaner, be a substitute for the eraser? I could find some way to rig a stone up to some kind of chassis. It seems a stone, a real fine stone, would do a better job than an eraser. I can clearly tell the difference between a piece of track that has been freshly sanded and one which has sat around for a week or two.
I'm also thinking some of the pieces have very high rails. I got some low profile AFX tires from someone, but I can't use them. Whenever I try, the chassis is way too low.
I can also run some Tyco 440-X2s around and they'll be okay on about 95% of the pieces, but there are a few where the car just hangs up on the rails. Because of this, I have to run large tires on magnet cars.

Thanks...Joe

The stone I'm using is from an exacto set. Run what ya brung I say. It's pretty thick so I can gorilla it a bit without fear of cracking it and it removes material fairly quick. I like the eraser cuz I can hack it to size in seconds. Easy to square up when it gets grooved or channeled from wear. I'm sure the AJ's stone would be fine. As I've had good success with eraser I'm hesitant to excessively hone the rails without cause.

I've had issues with lowpros from time to time, usually with Tyco and an isolated few sow bellie Magna's with dubious chassis. As you said, not much to do but go up a size in tire. Do the trouble tracks have their rails raised? I've noticed that some ancient pieces where the rail is arched/bent up across it's length. Some pieces have subtly shrunken or sunken grade as well. Of course the rail doesnt shrink so low cars will bottom. Seen both on occasion. Especially on track that was gunned down over God knows what for a 1/4 century.

For the record, it was a jigsaw puzzle to get my 'lil test track goin. As I fit pieces I'd mark the highs and lows then shuffle them around so they'd relate to one another better. I have only lock and joiner in this layout so I dont have any usable intel about mixing brands, how ever it seems intuitive that as you went from one to the other; one could concievably find the piece the was a skoshe higher, lower, shim one side or the other to get ya close enough to dress the joints. Although all track was created equally from a specific manufacturer the ravages of time has taken it's toll. That funky piece of L&J with the high end might be just the piece after all. LOL!

Here's to Bill, fooling with old L&J track can be like a stonemason building a wall. Each piece fits a little different, got to match them up! Unfortunately I didn't store my original track flat, stacked in a box in a cool area, I threw it in a box that eventually went into the attic. Funny though, I have tried some track that was stored in the original set box it came in, stacked in the appropriate recess, and it does better. That rail gunk. My old t jets sling oil, and that attracts the dust - Zamboni heck, you need a model maid service!

Something I have found recently that works great cleaning track and rail is the Mr. Clean Erasers. They work like a champ.

Roger Corrie

As seen on TV Roger? They've been running the adds lately.

Are you using them dry? Do they scuff the track, IE: painted lines or surfaces?

Sounds to good to be true. Please let us know.

For the record, it was a jigsaw puzzle to get my 'lil test track goin. As I fit pieces I'd mark the highs and lows then shuffle them around so they'd relate to one another better. I have only lock and joiner in this layout so I dont have any usable intel about mixing brands, how ever it seems intuitive that as you went from one to the other; one could concievably find the piece the was a skoshe higher, lower, shim one side or the other to get ya close enough to dress the joints. Although all track was created equally from a specific manufacturer the ravages of time has taken it's toll. That funky piece of L&J with the high end might be just the piece after all. LOL!

Bill,
I don't think I want to go through the exercise of trying to match the track as you describe above. The layout is already complete and the last thing I want to do is start ripping it apart to compare rail heights. So maybe this track becomes T-Jet and AFX only. I can live with that.
I think the best I'll be able to do is to file the joints so that there is a fairly even transition from track to track.
I am also experimenting with creating what may turn out to be a great track cleaner. I have some Tyco Command Control Obstacle car chassis. Although slotless, these have a piece sticking out the back of the chassis which should be perfect for mounting sand paper. I remove the center pickup shoe and glue in a nail style guide pin (I have some which I think came from MicroScalextric cars). I then use double sided tape and tape a piece of sandpaper under the chassis extension. The sandpaper can then rub the top of the rails as the car is run around the track.
I tried folding the sandpaper over (making it double wide), but that seems to be too high and the rear tires don't touch the track. I am also experimenting with putting weights on top of the chassis extension.
If this works, I'll have a whole fleet of track cleaners.

Joe

Joe, It took me a few trys to find a file that I liked. It's a single mill, about 5" in length and 3/4 of an inch wide. Perhaps a little bigger than you might expect, however the added width helps your fingers to ballance the file on the rail and not gouge the track excessively.

Please post up some pics of the track sander when you find time.

Those 'Bright Boy' erasers from the train section of the hobby shop work well.

... doesn't even mean you stored it wrong or it was abused. I've had brand new Tomy right outta da box be kind of twisty. Some pieces I just chucked. Even after a year or so on my latest layout I still have an HO "meatloaf" here and there that I'm working on smoothing out. Speed-Bumps!... (funny, that's what we call my mother-in-law's meatloaf)....I work these out very gradually. The cars tell you where the trouble spots are, but I use my bare finger rubbing along the course following in the direction of travel to gauge my progress while shaving it down. I use a bunch of different types of sanding tools (sponge backed and regular style sandpaper, sanding sticks, and even the blue/pink emory board from the wife's fake press-on nails kit). You can custom cut all of the regular sanding implements to suite your particular situation too. Personally, I only use good old elbow grease. Like Bill says, this is very hard work and it is HELL on the old fingers...but like he said it is indeed worth it. Dremels are just too awkward and way too powerful. The last thing you need is to make a high spot into a sink-hole!!! nd

Speed bump = mother in laws meat loaf. Thanxs alot 'Nuther. I blew my morning coffee thru my nose and onto the keyboard when I read this!

This spring I hit our first car show of the year. Thought it would be cool to pose my green painted AFX Porsche 911 RSR on Froggy's dash. Grabbed a piece of that "hopelessly weirded out" L&J and set it on the rear parcel shelf. Spent the whole day gabbing with friends and drooling on other peoples cars.

Gathered up all our paraphenalia at days end and low and behold that piece of track looked like a cross between a piece of corugated roof tin and a lasagna noodle. Even the rails were warped! The 'lil AFX car was fine.

Windows were down all day and the rear of Froggy was parked away from the sun!

I've always heard horror stories of track noodling up but this was a valuable first hand lesson. I now surmise that just the normal fluctuations of room temperature are enough to create havok over time.

Sooooo.... now the window blinds are either closed in the slotcave or focused up to the ceiling. Also checked/fine tuned all screws holding track down to ensure they are not overly tight and loading excess torsion into the track.

In retrospect, this is the true realism! Just like the forever changing surface of 1:1 roads plastic track wanders around in it's own peculiar way.

Anybody know where to get an HO scale DOT crew? Or at least the guy leaning on his shovel, and the four important looking dudes staring at the plans and scratching their heads. Cant pay cash!... but will provide lunches in the form of meatloaf.

Anybody know where to get an HO scale DOT crew?

... On a Saturday Bill?... Where else would they be?... There at the HO scale Nudie Bar watching Coleco Electric Football. (perhaps not only watching Football though). :cool: nd

I think I'm going to throw in the towel on MM track. Too many cars are behaving in different ways. I am going to set up the exact layout using Tyco (actually Mattel) track and see if it's a big improvement right out of the box. If so, the MM track will come down, get sold, and I'll just use the Mattel track.
The only real reason I used the MM track was (a) I had it and (b) MM track had 5" and 7" straights. Since I only used a 7" in one place, and I could work around that, the Mattel track will do nicely.

Joe

Grand, if you need a 7" straight, you could always franken-track the length you need. It really isn't that hard to make a couple of custom length straights if you need them to make everything mate up well.

Steve

Boy do I hate to hear your your scraping your MM track. I was hoping you would find the ultimate solution to getting the thing to run smooth and consistant. I have been messing with my old L & J stuff for months. I have a great layout and a good power supply with multiple power taps. I have tried every type of cleaner from just about every post and yet....crap. The only thing I haven't done is try screwing the thing down and soldering the rail tabs. I can't imagine that it would make that much of a difference since I have buffed and checked the rails many times, but I hate to admit defeat and the inconsistancy defies logic.

Many times on MM track the connections are the key...
You must clean all 4 metal tabs on each section and make sure that they make contact with the next track section...
What really helps here is the "repair" clips that snap underneath. Those clips hold the track tightly together... Of course the same clips make it a real bear to take the track apart later... :rolleyes:
Good luck and remember to have fun...
(All to easiely forgotton...)
Scott

Don't know if this will help but... and, I've never had or laid out MM track but...

I was at a bar once where they had a portable MM track set up for racing for a charity event. The bar didn't own the track but called in a called in guy who did this type of stuff for charity events or corporate stuff. The track was basically an elongated 6 lane figure 8 but I did notice something. Between each track section, each rail was connected by a key. Very similar to how a MaxTrax or Wizzard Track pieces are connected. The keys were very slim pieces of metal, almost like shim stock, and pushed down next to the rail (and was below the track surface). I don't know the material, perhaps brass. I hope this makes sense. It looked like a good way to ensure electrical continuity on the track - especially this one as it was plastic sectional track and portable. I would guess it was approx a 4x10 track.

As stated, I've never worked with MM track so don't know if any other mods had to be done to the track to make this work.

Steve

*SNIP*
Between each track section, each rail was connected by a key. Very similar to how a MaxTrax or Wizzard Track pieces are connected. The keys were very slim pieces of metal, almost like shim stock, and pushed down next to the rail (and was below the track surface). I don't know the material, perhaps brass. *SNIP*
Steve

What a great idea...
Thanks
Scott

Between each track section, each rail was connected by a key. Very similar to how a MaxTrax or Wizzard Track pieces are connected. The keys were very slim pieces of metal, almost like shim stock, and pushed down next to the rail (and was below the track surface). I don't know the material, perhaps brass. I hope this makes sense. It looked like a good way to ensure electrical continuity on the track - especially this one as it was plastic sectional track and portable.

Steve

The problem with MM track is not that there is a dropoff of power (there is, but it can be corrected with enough power taps), it's that the track pieces are so varied as to make getting any kind of consistancy out of it a near impossibility, unless you put in the kind of time and effort that Bill describes in an earlier post.

For T-jets, you will not notice much of a difference. But use a magnet car, any magnet car, and no two cars will probably behave the same way. Some will lose power on piece #6, others on #8, some on both, some on neither. Some pieces have rail too high, others too low. It can drive you nuts.

Take those same magnet cars and put them on a Tyco/Mattel track, even an untuned, quickie-put-together layout, and there's no problem. If there is a problem, it is with a particular piece of track for all cars.

I have been working with laying out the Mattel track so I can replace the MM track. I'm playing around with the design because I have a lot more options with the Mattel track since I have tons of 6", 9", 12" and 15" curves; curves which are in short supply in my MM inventory. Maybe I'll even get an 18" curve in there by using adapters.

There is a possible improvement which you can make to your MM track, but it would take time. If you take the end tabs, bend them out straight and then slide them against the rail of the next piece, you may have a better electrical connection - at least one which can be seen from above. But it would be a lot of work.

Joe

Boy do I hate to hear your your scraping your MM track. I was hoping you would find the ultimate solution to getting the thing to run smooth and consistant. I have been messing with my old L & J stuff for months. I have a great layout and a good power supply with multiple power taps. I have tried every type of cleaner from just about every post and yet....crap. The only thing I haven't done is try screwing the thing down and soldering the rail tabs. I can't imagine that it would make that much of a difference since I have buffed and checked the rails many times, but I hate to admit defeat and the inconsistancy defies logic.

While I have not yet ripped the track down, I am afraid that there is no amount of work that I can put into the track which will make it acceptable to magnet cars. And there would still be the work of filing down the ends to make everything mate nicely.

Not all the track was originally mine, and I can see where some pieces got warped from overtightning the screw. With all the Tyco/Mattel track I have, it just makes sense for me to go with the track which seems to give me better results. I hate to admit defeat and get rid of the track too, lots of memories and lots of great pieces. But what good is it if it just frustrates me?

Joe

The old Aurora Model Motoring track can be made to work quite well with magnet cars. The old Aurora track actually has thicker rails and thus more downforce. This year's UFHORA Nationals used an old Aurora track for both TJets and Unlimited. The Unlimited class is the ultimate magnet car racing class and TJets need a super smooth track. I don't even want to think about how many hours went into making that puppy smooth.

Back when I had my Aurora track it was a combination of L&J and AFX snap track. I consumed a ton of those single lane joiner clips (aka "track repair clips"). Those old tracks can be smooth but it's a lot of work.

I consumed a ton of those single lane joiner clips (aka "track repair clips"). Those old tracks can be smooth but it's a lot of work.

Before I had swithched to the TOMY trackback in '00, I was running my old L&J track from the 60s & early 70s. Took alot of time setting it up and tweaking it to get it smooth. I did use those repair clips on quite a few connections (about 60%) just to help the cause. I got it to where it was fine after about a good months worth of trial and tweaking, one way or the other. Then came the maintenance aspect. :freak:

After a couple of years I just undid everything and sent it to epay and then picked up two of the International Sets. But I had some tweaking to do with that stuff as well. Just didn't seem to be as much and the power issue was minimal, it was more a fit and tab(s) kind of thing. :) rr

Those old tracks can be smooth but it's a lot of work.

I'm sure it can be done, it's just a matter of how much time and effort you want to put into it. Clearly if you've already got the track set up and smooth, you should continue to use it. The question you need to ask yourself at the beginning is whether or not you want to put in that effort, or whether it would be better to start with a newer track system.

Joe

What the hack. One last try. I got a little time but, no money. I'm gonna try to work on the connections and screw everything down as I go. I like the ideas of bending the tabs straight and sliding them next to each other but, I don't see how to do that without removing material next to the rail end. I also like the idea of using another conductor between the tabs. Tycoarm wrote a awhile back about using n-gauge rail connectors between tracks for power taps but, I could put them between each tab if they will stay. I also have my track sitting on 1/8 in foam insulation to deaden the sound. I think I need a firmer base. Lastly, those repair clips would be great. The plastic locks just don't hold tight enough. Anyone got a million of these they want to get rid of, or a substitute they came up with. Lastly, does anyone know what the actual rail height should be and how do you measure it. I have enough track that I could be very picky on the pieces I keep.

Not dead yet.

I like the ideas of bending the tabs straight and sliding them next to each other but, I don't see how to do that without removing material next to the rail end.

And that is why it would be a lot of work. Had it been designed that way, I think it would have made a huge improvement.

There are also special pieces known as "Terminal Anywhere". Aurora made them during the AFX era, but I think they would only work with L&J track. They are sort of "T" shaped and have a side tab with four screws like a terminal track. They get installed between two pieces of track and have four metal tabs which touch the end tabs on the each piece, thereby creating a jumper point.

But power is not the only issue; if it were, it could be easily solved. It is the inconsistancy of the rail heights. Maybe this is due to the age of the track and the fact that I got most of the track used. It is possible that if the track was properly handled and cared for when it was new, it would have less problems. It may simply be that old track, any old track with lots of usage (and abusage??), does get to the point where it is too quircky to be reliable.

I believe a good rail height is supposed to be between .010" to .012". If you want to spend the time grinding down the rails, you glue the appropriate feeler guage to a file (in two places - far enough apart to allow at least two rails to go between them) and file the rails until the feeler guage is rubbing the track surface.

Joe

*snip*. With all the Tyco/Mattel track I have, it just makes sense for me to go with the track which seems to give me better results. I hate to admit defeat and get rid of the track too, lots of memories and lots of great pieces. But what good is it if it just frustrates me?

Joe

Joe, you have made up your mind... Go with what you like!
And remember to have fun...
Scott

One technique I've read about is to lay a piece of 1x3 lumber down on each rail joint and give it a whack with a hammer to fully seat the rails in their track grooves. Apparently the MM rails can work their way upward over time. Don't know if nobody's mentioned this because nobody knows it, or because everybody knows it, (or maybe because it doesn't work), but I'd sure give this a try before I started fitting and filing.

A few years ago for a school-buddies get-together I got out my enormous stock of MM lock-and-joiner track that I hadn't played with in years and set up a temporary landscaped 4-lane on a hollow-core door. I found myself thinking "I must have forgotten how frustrating this stuff is, or else I was just more excited about it when I was younger." I found I needed some 6" 1/8-curve pieces to build a chicane and bought some Tomy ones to convert to L&J. Before I started puttying and drilling, I took a look at how they connected, took them apart and snapped them together a couple of times, saw the heavenly light and heard the angel choir, and said, "Next time I'm using this stuff! Even if I DO have to pay money for it!" Since then I've bought the International and the Four-Way Split sets, set up a four-lane raceway on the carpet in a friend's apartment, raced on it with almost no "track tuning" and took it down - all in one evening. Nostalgic memories and my basic cheapskate nature notwithstanding, the next tabletop track I do is going to be with new Tomy track. Still love the T-Jets, but life's too short for lock-and-joiner track.
-- D

but life's too short for lock-and-joiner track.


Now there is a quote!!

Scott

I still have a good sized box of L&J track and I'm tempted to set something up only because of all the variety of novelty pieces. I've got cobblestones, single piece bumps, two piece bumps, crossover turns, crossover straights, y-tracks, single lanes, wiggles, squeeze tracks, a set of turn offs that have never been used, plus all the normal stuff. I'm thinking I could throw together some sort of super twisty, bumpy, squeezy, crossy, wiggly sort of rally track using a bunch of these pieces. It's starting to sound like the Waffle House Speedway.

Go for it!!!!!
Sounds like a blast...

Scott

One technique I've read about is to lay a piece of 1x3 lumber down on each rail joint and give it a whack with a hammer to fully seat the rails in their track grooves. Apparently the MM rails can work their way upward over time.

A few years ago for a school-buddies get-together I got out my enormous stock of MM lock-and-joiner track that I hadn't played with in years and set up a temporary landscaped 4-lane on a hollow-core door. I found myself thinking "I must have forgotten how frustrating this stuff is, or else I was just more excited about it when I was younger." I found I needed some 6" 1/8-curve pieces to build a chicane and bought some Tomy ones to convert to L&J. Before I started puttying and drilling, I took a look at how they connected, took them apart and snapped them together a couple of times, saw the heavenly light and heard the angel choir, and said, "Next time I'm using this stuff! Even if I DO have to pay money for it!" Since then I've bought the International and the Four-Way Split sets, set up a four-lane raceway on the carpet in a friend's apartment, raced on it with almost no "track tuning" and took it down - all in one evening. Nostalgic memories and my basic cheapskate nature notwithstanding, the next tabletop track I do is going to be with new Tomy track. Still love the T-Jets, but life's too short for lock-and-joiner track.
-- D

Attempting to reseat the rails is a noble idea, but if you don't glue them down, I'm guessing that magnet cars would pull them right back up.

As to my experiances with L&J track, they are exactly the same as yours. Whether it's Tomy or Tyco (or even Lifelike), the newer snap together track seems far better and easier to work with.

Joe