i got two 10.5 motors back from novak last saturday...i love novak and there brushless motors..it's no secret...and this is a long story...

i bought a 4300 motor when they first came out..upgraded it along the way...it runs the same as it did almost 2 years ago...this year 2007 i decided to treat myself to a new 10.5 pro motor for the speedway race in daytona..installed new motor and it shuts down on the track after 30 seconds...put motor away to send back..next month i buy a second new pro motor 10.5...it runs 3 minutes and shuts down...put an X on motor to have sent back...buy a 4th motor and it work great! yeah now i have two 10.5 motors...and two bad 10.5 motors..no problem i have superior hobbies send the two bad motors back for repair.

two weeks go by and superior calls to tell me the motors are back...
novak sent me two refurb motors in the blister package marked 10.5 ..the can is marked 10.5 awesome..no charge at all and i get two new motors...

i get to race this weekend on carpet..so i practice with the two older motors for awhile..the best lap i can muster up is a 4.03 all day..... i get my car working good and decide to try a good pack and a new motor...go out and run and still 4.0's are my best laps but the good news is my new motor goes 4 minutes on the track..now i have three 10.5 motors that run! awesome i'm happy...i go back and charge up another good pack and try my second new 10.5 motor...lap times went from 4.0's to low 3.8's ?????WOA! i'm not a dummy...but i was handling on the straights!!!

but i'm also honest.....i am i swear lol.....i take th lap sheet to mike boylan and tell him i'm worried...he is no dummy either and he can see what i'm getting at...mike nor I had brought our meter to read the brushless motors...so i did the next best thing and gave it to dave pull..his car was also in the 4.0 range all day and night...he does nothing but charge a pack and install my "special" motor...his third lap was a 3.79!!!!!!

i'm going to meter the motor tommorow night...bt i'm about 99.8% sure it is NOT a 10.5 it may be a 10.0 or a 9.5 or even a 8.5

we did pull it apart and it is marked 43 on the inside as well as the outside..both motors i got back from novak are just one number apart in the series number order..

is it a 1 in 2 million hot motor?
or is it yet another mis marked 8.5 motor that "slipped" through tech on friday at 4:45 in the afternoon?

guys we cannot have this happen any more!!! i am honest i never used the motor in a race.....but what if this motor was shipped to johhny Q racer? he is going to use it! this will ruin brushless oval faster than anything kisbey could ever dream up!

not to mention in florida we have a 0 tolerence cheating rule in place...

if you get caught cheating you are done racing oval in floirda for a period of one years time! now i here i am with this one of a kind 10.5 motor...

WHAT GIVES?????????
we took 4 steps forward in florida oval brushless racing...now we are 5 steps back again!

if it is a 1 in 2 million motor and it meter legal some how..it sucks for the rest of the florida racers....i could rub the pipe on the outside of the track and win with this motor!

if it went out of the factory mis labled it sucks...because you will never convince us that this is the last time it will happen!

and why ME? i have enough problems here in florida and now i get this delivered to me! i had to sleep with the damn thing so i know i wouldn't lose it over night.

HELP me bob novak help me tom cruise!

Kat

Hopefully you can Get to the bottom of the issue...before more negative hysteria is created about B/L motors... :(

How does the timing on the 2 motors compare?

One of MY issues w/ the Novak B/L motors is the fact that they ALL look the SAME...

This is one of the next issues I'm hoping to see better addressed...so MIS Labeling can't happen (But if packaging and tagging are done by HUMANS...errors can be made)

Try gearing the other motors different! Sounds like you have just hit the sweet spot on that 1 motor! also look at the timing ring and see if all the motors are timed the same!

Oh, check the tires! If they are foams, going slow is a fact of life....

Why make a big deal over this. The motr was probally mismarked, just send it back and get it fixed. Brushed motors have had the same issues, just get over it and more on. Things happen and will always happen no matter which company a part comes from.

I am new to brushless but from wha I have read, wouldn't this be easily caught in tech after winning a heat/race?

No Ralf the Rotor is stamped 10.5 And there was no meter available at the track. That badboy was Faaast!

Katfish, I have forwarded your comments to charlie@teamnovak.com (whom I would encourage you to e-mail directly when problems occur) and Adnan Khan, Novak's Engineering Manager.

Sounds like the motor may have been mislabeled.

Before we "jump to conclusions" lets see what the meter says?

Gotta love the internet some days. In the time it took to type up that post you could have easily thrown the meter on it.

If it's off, we'll take care of it, and give you a big pat on the back for being honest about the whole situation too boot.

I remember the motors that you sent in, I checked them both myself, they didn't do anything wrong when we ran them, so we replaced them just to be safe. I in fact gave both of those motors to some buddies of mine to race. They were fine for them. Head Scratcher for sure.

The motors you got back, were they the "pro" motors?

Actually lets continue this via email if thats okay with you. Charlie@teamnovak.com

Thanks

WORD Charlie is DaBomb~

(what ever that means...)

THE INTERNET - the biggest FRIEND....AND the biggest FOE to HUMANITY~

Try gearing the other motors different! Sounds like you have just hit the sweet spot on that 1 motor! also look at the timing ring and see if all the motors are timed the same!

Oh, check the tires! If they are foams, going slow is a fact of life....



Jimmy this wasn't a gearing issue. that thing had alot more rip than any 10.5 I have ever driven.

Before I would going buying super dupper rotor magnet meter and superchargers, I'd invest in an inductance meter.:) These motors are virtually cheat proof (although I AM SURE someone is trying somewhere). But that little 'ol meter will tell a lot more than you may think. :thumbsup: Brushless motors, like Lipo's takes a whole new learnig process, and not all we know about brushed motors applies!!

These motors are virtually cheat proof.

hehehehe.

We said the same thing about stock motors with fixed endbells.

though it looks and sounds like novak bashing..it is not intended to put anyone out of business...

both zubaks and my motor came back as refurb motors....not sure abour adams though...

my only point is this......not everyone who plays with our toy cars is honest...and in defens of someone who only owns one 10.5 they would never know the difference,they could just figure there car is that good...i knew better and i'm glad i own the motor in question. how many more are floating around at local club/tracks?

i'm thinking very club , series,big race will need to have meter at the tech table and keep it busy all day long...without a meter no one could accuse me of cheating with that motor..it is tagged and stamped inside like every other 10.5 motor out there.

after dinner i'll break down the 4 10.5 motors i own and the 13.5 motor and go from there.i would rather have the motor manufacturer meter and mark the motors after..but as long as humans are involved S happens i guess?

my question is this...

if the host track/promoter does not tech every motor either before or after each race..the racer in question could just say he got his motor from the hobby shop and he had no knowledge of it being a 8.5....with brushed motors it was alot easier to see what you had....

mr. flack this motor was tested in two different cars with the same results..instantly dropped 2 tenths from your lap times....4.0's became 3.8's


charlie i will try to email you but they never make it through the spam filter..go figure,lol.

my cell 386-843-1477

quick test with my meter...my meter reads lower than the one on the novak site.

1)10.5 = 21.5
2)10.5 = 22.0
3)13.5 = 33.0

motor in question = 12.5 lol it wouldn't pass tech on any meter.

those readings were with the rotor in the motor...

Wow! That must have been a 4:45 Friday or an early Tuesday after a holiday motor! Sounds like it just got miss labeled. LOL!

so WOW you mean a motor that is reading as a 12.5 went FASTER by .2 - .3 PER LAP than 2 10.5 motors... or are you saying the 'READING' was a 12.5? I'm so confused...these brushless motors are going to be the DEATH of RACING as we know it...

(Which will be a GOOD THING - because it will start a NEW DAY~)

It read 12.5 on the inductance meter, which I think tells us the motor is a 8.5. As he said, his meter reads a little lower than normal.
http://www.teamnovak.com/Tech_info/motor_tech/index.html

I don't see anything to get worked up about...we have to do tech...big deal. Not directed at you swtour.

Hey Guys,

Well done sir. I applaud your honesty and I'm sure you'll be able to get the motor replaced with no questions. Please send it Attention Charlie and I'll be sure it gets turned around imediately.

Was this a "pro" motor or the original style?

Thanks
Charlie@teamnovak.com

Woops, one last check should be done with "no Rotor". I've seen lots and lots of folks simply botch up the reading with the rotors installed. The only real way to tell what turn it is from inductance is with the Rotor "out".

is it a 1 in 2 million hot motor?
or is it yet another mis marked 8.5 motor that "slipped" through tech on friday at 4:45 in the afternoon?
if it went out of the factory mis labled it sucks...because you will never convince us that this is the last time it will happen!

and why ME? i have enough problems here in florida and now i get this delivered to me! i had to sleep with the damn thing so i know i wouldn't lose it over night.

HELP me bob novak help me tom cruise!


Katfish is TOO funny...

On the Error of a motor slipping through - well LOOK at them.

For the most part they look the same prior to the stickers being placed on them. You have PEOPLE/ (we'll call them HUMANS) and this species is know to make an occasional MISTAKE (Heck, the girl at TACO BELL the other night spent 5 minutes trying to figure out how to make my change on a $9.80 order that I paid for w/ a $10.00 dollar bill... and when I told her she owed me .20c ...she had to dig out a CALCULATOR)

What we DON'T need is Chaos, Confusion and Crap created when things like this are found. They simply need a way to be checked...if a motor at a track LOOKS to fast for a particular class - IT PROBABLY IS~ (That's just one more of the NICE things about the B/L motors...)

I don't know the facts about what's happened with this motor - but I've received phone calls...and emails from concerned racers, a couple of whom are now in PANIC mode over making a switch to B/L motors...and afraid they are going to have to look over their shoulder for demons or something.

I'm also getting the same types of messages from a few about a "NEW" Top Secret "programable" speed control that will allow you to change timing...add voltage...destroy the competition...and BUTTER your TOAST..and scramble your eggs on race morning...and the thing that is scaring them about this NEW ESC is they are hearing... "Only FACTORY SPONSORED" guys will be able to get it...so they can have the EDGE over the rest of the racers...cause NOW everyone is on such EQUAL equipment.... (read the above statement as you will...it's not real...I have no info to back up that statement...but it makes about as much sense as a lot of the things I've been hearing the last couple weeks)

charlie it was a 10.5 refurb motor

i'll check them tonight without the rotor later tonight.

can we say kisbey mis marked those 13 turn motors as well? he is human...

if a person new to oval racing just bought a 10.5 system and had no clue how fast he shuld be this would be a huge problem.the poor guy at a local track would swear up and down he just bought this motor and most likely would have the box it came in a receipt for it as well. most clubs do not own a expensive inductance meter..yes i knew better...but we had two other guys who i consider top level oval racers who claimed ignorance and swore up and down they got there motors from novak...this can and will happen again...i'm sure if 3 of us got a 8.5 motor in a 10.5 can i'm sure more guys own one of these motors.the whole idea of mis-marked motors stinks...that is the last comment i'll make over this whole deal..if you guys think it's cool than i guess i do too.

charlie i'll send the motor back friday regular ups ground. thanks for your understanding . bill

in florida we have a 0 tolerence cheating rule in place...

if you get caught cheating you are done racing oval in floirda for a period of one years time! now i here i am with this one of a kind 10.5 motor...

[/QUOTE]
so if a guy buys a 10.5 from novak and gets teched as a 8.5 he is banned?!!!! :confused:

according to everyone on these boards he should know better and not run the motor.

honestly i couldn't ban him,knowing what i know now it can honestly happen and it did to me.

so in brushless if you get caught with a 8.5 motor we can all just say we bought it that way i guess...

i'm going to tech every motor in the series and mark them from today on. it's the only way to know what each racer has in his car. ugh

he77 most guys can't handle the speeds of a 10.5 the NEWBIE would probably be FASTER if he accidentally put a 13.5 in...

I'm confused.

How can a racer be banned from racing for a year if the race director/promoter putting on the event is not willing to check BL motors for compliance?

There is no point in making rules that you are unable, or unwilling, to enforce.

Please

I thought quality control had this type of mistake under control......... :cool:

if it happend to a 10.5 , whose to say it hasnt happened to 13.5, so know to run a brushless class every hobby shop needs an inductance meter! ouch!!!

he77 most guys can't handle the speeds of a 10.5 the NEWBIE would probably be FASTER if he accidentally put a 13.5 in...

LOL, actually I,m living proof of that :p Except in 13.5 vs 19t. I ran 13.5 bl and 19t Sportsman this past weekend best runs where:

13.5- 55 laps 4:04.09, Fast Lap 4.2
19T Sportsman 55 laps 4:01.65, Fast Lap 4.0

Hmmm ran faster laps in 19t but the same amount of laps in close to the same time in both classes? Why because the 13.5 was easier to drive, for me anyway. 13.5 is now my Favorite class, its Fun.

so now to run a brushless class every hobby shop needs an inductance meter! ouch!!!

yes, just like they need other tech equipment such as scales, ride height gauges etc. I would think a $100 meter from ebay would be sufficient.
Don't forget some people intentionally cheat.

I'm confused.

How can a racer be banned from racing for a year if the race director/promoter putting on the event is not willing to check BL motors for compliance?

There is no point in making rules that you are unable, or unwilling, to enforce.

Well, if the motor is marked 10.5 on the outside and when you disassemble it, it says 43k on it and it appears by all visual aspects that is indeed a 10.5 motor. So you then run it in practice, race it and get checked after a qualifier ...... your toast ........ I personally wouldnt have thought to have to double check it, it came from a 10.5 blister pack straight from novak as a refurb motor.

If that was the only motor you had to put in your car and nothing else to compare it to, you'd think your shizit was dialed in ..... because like I said by ALL VISUAL INSPECTION IT APPEARED TO BE A LEGIT 10.5 motor, only because Kat was running his other motors in practice to make sure they went 4 minutes did this one stand out when he bolted it in.

The point is, it stinks that we now have to double check the 10.5 motors to make sure they really are what they appear to be ......... this is the first time I or anyone else down here that i know have seen anything like this. So we will now have to double check whenever we get a new one i guess.

Novaktwo, point being we as racers should'nt have to double check what comes out of the package if all other indications point to it being what is supposed to be i.e. marked 10.5 inside and out ....... it has nothing to do with enforcing tech rules.

I know mistakes happen, The folks at Novak are human, I would hope you would look into this and try to find out how it happened so it doesnt happen again.

...just thinking outloud...

would it be possible to wind the motors with different color wire - so when the endbell is pulled off - if you see a blue colored wire - it's a 10.5, if it's red wire it's 13.5, if it's black it's 17.5 or something?

(NO - I'm hoping we don't have to resort to things like this...everything we do to make building motors MORE labor intense will also make them COST more money.)

...I wish we didn't have to always have fear of the fact that 2 or 3 people "MIGHT" cheat - and because of this things get out of control before they were ever a problem.

NOVAK has been doing So much in their efforts to work with OVAL racers...(Where as a company, ME personally with all the crap they obviously have to put up with...I'd tell US to stick it like so many other R/C Companies have...) ARE We (oval racers) worth all the B.S. we create?

joe is on to something here.....

let's take this negative and turn it positive asap.

all the mod motors 5.5 4.5 3.5 should have a different color timing ring along with a different color wire for the windings...maybe even a different center ring color as well?

the 13.5 should have a different look than the 10.5 and so on...

let's try to make these things easier to tech..

if novak can't tell one motor from another why is it so easy for us?

just another step in the evolution of brushless....

novak has been awesome with the oval heads,no doubt...let's work toward making teching easier on all of us.

(I know the Identification isn't just an issue among OVAL guys either - It's something I'm hearing from TOURING guys too - some of THOSE guys are confused too - the difference is THOSE guys are CRAZY and want FASTER than 3.5/6 cell speeds in a lot of cases. NUTS I say ... NUTS~)

Has this only ever been refurb problem?

I would think that refurbs would be handled off line and therefor have different quality controls in place. Just looks like they need to add another validation test to the refurb process and we'll all be set. Until then, try to meter your refurb motors to be safe...it sucks but its still a learning process for all.

Hi guys,

Wow, I don't really know where to begin. Making another change to the motor would be a nightmare. The color coding of the timing rings should adress situations like this 100%.

We have remanufactured of "everyting we offer" new for the most part. This is to simply address non warranty services.

Coloring the wire is a fine idea, but really I don't know that is needed. Having a "tech tool" should not be a big deal for Oval Racers.

You guys take everything so seriously, but having the track have a simple tech tool is all of a sudden a huge problem?

I don't get it. I used to be a very serious oval racer myself, years ago I was fast.

It's up to the track to enforce rules, not the racers. The racers support the track, the track supports the racers. A $100 investment by the track is fairly small in the big picture. BL racing is "for sure" putting life back into Oval Racing Right? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've been told by at least a dozen different tracks, owners, organizers, and countless racers, that BL is "saving" oval.

You guys throwing us under the bus on stuff like this is only hurting yourselves.

Now, Katfish's 12.5 Reading "with the rotor" is Still WAY WAY too low to even be an 8.5. This is exactly why, before we jump to a final decision here, we NEED to check this motor with the rotor OUT. Our tech information states this is the only way to truly determine if a motor is legit.

Heres a perfect story for you guys that just happened at the Roar Paved Oval Nats. From a BL Racer. He's on this forum and for sure can back up this story.

Comes up to me says his 10.5 is Slow, We check it all is good, his car is "dialed in", Battery packs are good, everything is fine. You guys know the drill.

Well, no matter what they do, the car is .1 off per lap. This is a big deal. The only thing that I didn't check was the Bearing on the motor, so I simply suggest to install a new bearing. VOILA, gets his .1 back. The motor was legit before and after, but it got faster by a whole .1 simply because of a bad bearing. No Other Changes.

Story sound familiar?

Now to "offically" clarify the other two Mis Marked Motors - One was exchanged with a Novak Employee at a Touring Car race that did not have any 10.5 racing. It was one he simply had in his box that had a 4300 sticker on it. He may not have ever even run that motor in his own car. This was NOT a remanufactured exchange. Human error, we assumed when we should have "checked" Totally our Fault.

The second time was from a racer that purchased his in a Hobby Shop "new", again NOT a remanfactured unit. To this day we can not understand how this happened and are deeply sorry for both situations.

Our staff here builds our new and Remanufactured items the same way, same people, same testing same parts, even same warranty.

I'm not trying to flame anyone at all here, I'm not trying to bad mouth anything, I'm simply trying to show everyone the bigger picture in all of this. Perhaps this motor was mis-marked, perhaps it's not. Until we can confirm all of this, lets not jump to conclusions.

Joe, I truly love your comment, is it worth it.... :)

Yes it is. Novak has a deep love for our R/C Comunity, and we want to do more then just make money off you guys. We want to better the hobby and make it grow. BL is a stepping stone to a bigger R/C Picture. I want to see R/C Cars on TV, I want to see it on Sport Center, but we all have to be on the same page for this to happen.


I truly appreciate everyone listening, and hope we can move to solve problems like this by simply having the correct tools in place to check them.

Thanks Guys
Charlie@teamnovak.com

Oh, by the way, you can always email me directly if you find something funny and don't want to air it out on a public forum... but what fun would that be right?

That was a great post Charlie!

Everything evolves just like 19T's and we all learn together. Thanks for being positive and supporting all forms of racing!

Like most problems a little bit of realistic common sense would do the trick to solve this.

i'm going to tech every motor in the series and mark them from today on. it's the only way to know what each racer has in his car. ugh

Teching every motor is unrealistic and unnecessary. Simply tech and mark the TQ after each round. If the same guy stays TQ and still has his mark no need to retech. Then tech the top 3 in the A-main. Reserve the right to check anyone else who doesn't look right. This is something you should be doing anyway and it isn't overly hard.

if it happend to a 10.5 , whose to say it hasnt happened to 13.5, so know to run a brushless class every hobby shop needs an inductance meter! ouch!!!


If you're that concerned about it and your track can't find $100. Then why don't you buy the meter and give it to the track. They could trade you for free entry fees for a few months or something.


This is a general comment and not directed to anyone specific......
There is one thing I don't get. Why does anything having to do with brushless racing have to be absolutely perfect or it gets mercilessly ragged on?

People come on here and complain about any expense related to BL racing yet they have no problem spending 2K a year to race brushed.

BL motors are many times more consistent then brushed motors could ever be yet if there is any possibility one guy has a minutely better motor then another guy people are on here complaining.

It is easy to cheat at brushed racing and always has been, but if there is any way to cheat at BL racing people are on here freaking out about it.

People go to Walmart and buy cheap Chinese crap that breaks after a week of use, but if Novak has any mistakes or defects whatsoever in their manufacturing process people are on here freaking out about it. If you guys held the makers of your real cars to the standards you hold Novak to we certainly wouldn't have Fords bursting into flames when parked in people's garages.

In the real world "stuff" happens. It's just not a big deal.

Novak is THE only large RC company that gives a darn about oval. I watched Charlie spend an entire weekend sitting in 100 degree heat in SC helping guys out and handing out free gear. Lets give these guys a break.

Thanks Charlie and thanks Novak!

This is a general comment and not directed to anyone specific......
There is one thing I don't get. Why does anything having to do with brushless racing have to be absolutely perfect or it gets mercilessly ragged on?

People come on here and complain about any expense related to BL racing yet they have no problem spending 2K a year to race brushed.

BL motors are many times more consistent then brushed motors could ever be yet if there is any possibility one guy has a minutely better motor then another guy people are on here complaining.

It is easy to cheat at brushed racing and always has been, but if there is any way to cheat at BL racing people are on here freaking out about it.

People go to Walmart and buy cheap Chinese crap that breaks after a week of use, but if Novak has any mistakes or defects whatsoever in their manufacturing process people are on here freaking out about it. If you guys held the makers of your real cars to the standards you hold Novak to we certainly wouldn't have Fords bursting into flames when parked in people's garages.

In the real world "stuff" happens. It's just not a big deal.

Novak is THE only large RC company that gives a darn about oval. I watched Charlie spend an entire weekend sitting in 100 degree heat in SC helping guys out and handing out free gear. Lets give these guys a break.

Thanks Charlie and thanks Novak!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I have seen a 4300 car outrun a car with a 5800 once or twice last season anyways!!! :tongue: .... If your setup isnt money when it comes to BL racing your not gonna be fast, plain and simple!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: to Novak for all the support they give to oval racing!!! that even includes you too Charlie! keep up the great work!

In my opinion this topic got blown WAY outta proportion,... shoulda been handled with a call to Novak. Oval racers luv drama!

Hey Guys, Myself and the staff here at Novak all appreciate your support and kind words.

Katfish, So what did it read with the rotor out? Thats the question I really want to see answered. Then we can fix this and move on. Or if you'd like just send it to me and I'll swap it for "you" for a "pro" motor to avoid this in the future.

Frank I seen you outrun a 5800 with a co 27

Anhyone remember the "skewed" comm stock motors that Trinity let loose in the wild a couple of years back? It wasn't the end of stock racing then.

[QUOTE=CharlieS]

I don't get it. I used to be a very serious oval racer myself, years ago I was fast.QUOTE]







well not that fast.i hear that the "MI maffia" caught up to ya once and seran wraped that butt to a chair.any truth 2 that?

CharlieS: YOUR THE MAN!!! and NOVAK is the best! With all the other forms of racing (off -road, TC) NOVAK does care about the oval racing crowd!! 1,000,000
KODO'S to NOVAK!! To bad for the most part, we are preaching to an empty church. :confused:

As you remember, I too was asking NOVAK to mark the motors with something other than a Sharpie. :) But after actually getting into the heart of these motors, ALL ANYONE NEEDS IS AN INDUCTANCE METER!!!!! It does't matter what the motor is marked, if the markings just "miracously wiped off" or were changed. The INDUCTANCE METER TELLS ALL!!!! What could be simpler to tech? I'd rather tech 100 brushless motors, than 5 brushed motors. Which by the way, should be a no-brainard for tracks, racers etc. There is no reason "every" motor couldn't be teched, other than the laziness of the tracks, tech people and racers to do so.

It's funny how racers can spend $200+ to check the rotor, spend $500+ for a Dyno, yet they find buying a decent inductance meter a "major" expense. This by all means belongs in the tool-box? It's part of brushless racing. If nothing else, racers at "said track" can even go together and buy one.

What has chased more racers away from Oval Racing is the perception that someone is cheating. 99% of the time this is Boy Cow Poop! Yet, tracks lose racers becasue they can't take the time to do "tech" on a weekly basis.

Anyway, THANK YOU FOR STEPPING INTO THE LION'S DEN!! I appreciate it more than I can express!! BTY: If you feel a little light headed, it's because you put your head on the chopping block..:thumbsup:

It was sa-ran wrap, it was the stuff they use to wrap pallets, and I was put in strapping tape handcuffs. Bunch of crazies. They were all mad I was fast on the track so they jumped me in the pits. ..... :)

I'm not scared of simply answering questions and sharing information, and maybe even shedding some light on things. But don't thank me, Thank Novak. I just work for them and do what is right. They sat us all down in a room and told us what we were "trying" to do with this brushless stuff, so far it's going well, but there are always bumps in the road.

Anything new is held to a higher standard, its all in how it's dealt with. No need to hide behind policy, just need to answer questions and address problems quickly.

Hankster -Thanks, it's nice to be reminded that other companies also make a mistake from time to time. :)

Thanks for taking the time to post, Charlie!

charlie

all readings now with rotor removed....

1) 32.4
2) 32.6
3) 19.8

guess what motor does 3.8 lap times.........

I think its a good thing that this is being dicussed out in the open, so people can be aware that mistakes do happen at the factory during assembly while rare, they do happen. So to anyone reading this, just to be safe, if your track has a meter take advantage of that fact and check out your motor.

Charlie no one here is throwing stones at you ....... lol. I'm sure you guys @ Novak will find a solution to help make sure stuff like this happens less often if ever again ....... I think what alot of guys would like is someway to visually tell the difference like a brushed motor. I understand to be completely sure they need to be disassembled.

Now that this has been brought to the attenion of all of us ......... the final responsibility of whats bolted in my race car is MINE, NOT Novak's ......... So I will make sure to get my stuff checked at the next race...... as should anyone else who can at their local track ........ that way if something is mismarked, its found BEFORE the races and no one get dq'ed or gets falsely accused of wrong doing.

For the record I love brushless racing and this is NOT the end of the world by any stretch, it jsut like any other form of racing, as much as we would like it to be nothing is perfect........... but its alot of fun:thumbsup:

Thanks to Novak for joining the discussion and listening to ideas and our problems

Rich Boehmler

hey it is no fun to take ur problems behind closed doors, just ask jr. and his sister.charlie u r cool under fire no way i could do that. u can hang any motor u want in ur car u still have to work on the car.brushless or brushed the cream still comes to the top. let kat keep the motor he needs the help.----dennis meridith