View Full Version : Tyco 440x2


mtyoder
08-26-2007, 07:41 PM
As with any magnet car drop the chassis as low as possibe without dragging the track(maybe slightly dragging in some casses). Yeah, I know its basic 101.

LeeRoy98
08-27-2007, 08:04 PM
Stretch the motor brush springs to protrude from the barrels about 1/4 to 1/8 inch to add some "oomph" to the arm. Use a "dead" ball point ink pen and carefully round the edges between the commutator sections to smooth the arm.
If you run left turn ovals, swap the motor magnets ( and axle gear ) to the right side to make the armature turn to the right (to transfer weight to the left). (don't forget to change the rear gear orientation.

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98

vaBcHRog
08-27-2007, 08:22 PM
Its been a long time since I raced them but the Chassis and Bulkheads make a big difference as cetrtain combinations allow the traction magnet and motor magnets to set lower. I not 100% sure nut I believe it use to be a 4 dot chassis and bulkheads but I won't swaer to it This was for the older narrow X2 chassis

Roger Corrie

A/FX Nut
08-27-2007, 08:26 PM
Use the front bulkhead with a checkmark / Nikie swoosh on top and 4 dot rear bulkhead. Also look for the magnets with a blue or black stripe on the white paint. Randy.

Mike(^RacerX^)
08-28-2007, 12:28 AM
Guys....

Ive read a lot about these but my experience with them is almost nil.
These seem to have come and gone while I was on my 20 some odd year hiatus from slots.

Do a lot of folks still race these?????? Is there a good source for these cars and chassis and parts at a reasonable price????

Id like to mess around with them a bit.

Mike

A/FX Nut
08-28-2007, 08:53 PM
Hi Mike,

You should be able to pick these up at one of the Slot Shows that happen in your area.

I race the slim 440X-2 chassis in our Super Stock Class. We can use Silicone Coated Sponge rear tires, hollow rear axle, after market gears, independent front ends, and silver electrical, but the armature, all magnets, and chassis is to be stock. The body can be Lexan and must be painted.
Randy.

SwamperGene
08-28-2007, 09:30 PM
Mike, Scale Auto sells pretty much every part for the X2, stock Tyco stuff. You can build a whole chassis for probably $10 or so.

RacerDave
08-29-2007, 05:44 PM
Hey Mike. I would definitely try a few if I was you. The 440-x2 was a very well designed slot. Top of the line for a long time. Very fast, smooth, quiet, and very reliable. I never got a bad one. The Nascars they were putting out right up till they sold out were beautiful also. Dave.

Mike(^RacerX^)
08-29-2007, 11:40 PM
You guys have piqued my curiosity on theses.Im going to have to try a few.Might be good for me to use for a beginners class kind of thing.

Ok.Magnet car history questions now.
Am I correct in assumimg that the wiz and slot tech cars are based at least in part on this chassis design????

Im a G3 kinda guy,but I love the Wiz Storms.Have a bunch of Wiz cars in my box actually.Probaby more then G's.

And then theres the car that always really intrigued me.The Decosmo T+.
Now that one I really want to try.

Am I correct in assuming that tis design is based on a G3 and a Tyco???

Mike

vaBcHRog
08-30-2007, 01:28 PM
Try SCJ Slot Car Johnnies he contributes on the board and I'm pretty sure he carries them. The websense at work has his site blocked so I acn't check for you.

http://www.slotcarjohnnies.com

Roger Corrie

zig
08-30-2007, 09:35 PM
Its been a long time since I raced them but the Chassis and Bulkheads make a big difference as cetrtain combinations allow the traction magnet and motor magnets to set lower. I not 100% sure nut I believe it use to be a 4 dot chassis and bulkheads but I won't swaer to it This was for the older narrow X2 chassis

Roger Corrie

If memory serves me correctly...
For stock class racing the hot setup used to be the Malaysia 2 dot chassis the dots are located on the bottom side of the chassis at the rear, behind the axel. This chassis has the axel holes positioned up higher than all the others giving you the lowest center of gravity.

The 4 dot rear bulkhead is the best choice for adding downforce, it positions the chassis magnets the lowest of all the bulkheads.

Last but I think most important is the check mark front bulkhead, it has the best alignment between the brush barrels and the armature center line.

ZIG

vaBcHRog
08-31-2007, 11:22 AM
Thanks Zig it has all come back now :) Been a while since I raced TYCO Super Stocks. At my second HOPRA nationals I flipped the rear bulkhead so the tabs that held the magnets were up top. This allowed one traction magnet to float down and the other floated up just a tad. I adjusted the rear tire height till the magnet that floated down just barley touched the rail. Came in 5th with it. Had a blast it was in Awagma Mass.

Roger Corrie

Slott V
08-31-2007, 01:32 PM
Winning Tyco Set Up from Tony "TMAC" McWilliams

1.) 1 dot maylasian chassis.
2.) check mark front w/ no bushing.
3.) 4 dot rear bulkhead w/ no bushing.
4.) lexan body.
5.) .006 brush spring.
6.) 80% copper brush.
7.) .012 pick up spring
8.) Ski shoe.
9.) Matched Tyco motor mags.
10.) Small window motor.
11.) Phase II traction mags.
12.) .365 front tires.
13.) .446 hard compound silicone tire.
14.) 7/25 tyco gears.

jamiestang
09-09-2007, 01:12 AM
Can anyone answer this ? what is the 2nd best set up if you don't have a check mark front bulkhead and a 4 dot rear bulkhead ?

What about a 1,2,3,4 dot front bulkhead ? or are these a waste ?
What about a 1,2,3 dot rear bulkhead ? or are these a waste ?

zig
09-12-2007, 06:19 PM
I don't think any of them are a complete waste...
NOTE: the "Hot" setup is for stock or super stock racing, where nothing can be modified!

As soon as you start tinkering with anything not stock such as...
1) aftermarket or rewound arms
2) Adjustable brush holders
3) Aftermarket wheels and or axels
4) Aftermarket gears
5) neo, poly, or cobalt magnets
6) Aftermarket pickup shoes and springs
7) Chinese Chassis

All of the "Hot Tricks" go rite out the window :woohoo:

Trial and error is the best bet for finding the "Best" or "2nd Best" setup...
Good handling is often much better than top speed.

AfxToo
09-16-2007, 01:57 PM
Can anyone answer this ? what is the 2nd best set up if you don't have a check mark front bulkhead and a 4 dot rear bulkhead ?

I've found that using other style bulkheads usually means you need to adjust the front and/or rear ride height up or down a little. raise the front up more for 3 or 4 dot front bulkhead and lower it down more for no dot front. The range of front heights will usually fall somewhere in the 0.350" - 0.365" span. In the rear, 0.446" - 0.475". Yeah, a wide range but there are a lot of variables and no "one size fits all" setup.

It's best to experiment a bit to see what works best for you. Be very careful about heat. Invest in a non contact thermometer and try to keep your arm and comm less than 150 degrees Fahrenheit. (Harbor Freight has several models of affordable non contact thermometers.) Those heavy Phase II magnets put enormous stress on the arm with tiny changes in ride height. It's best to start a little too high and start dropping it if you can't get it to handle, while keeping heat under control.

The one thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is cutting the brushes (silver or copper) down to around 0.170 inch in length. It helps a lot with smoothness and heat reduction. Stock Tycos usually have too much brush tension. I also like to space the front of the arm with a 0.010"-0.015" gap and 0.030" gap in the rear.

As with all setups, once you get the whole thing put together and oiled, place it on a piece of test track with the front tires mounted and a rear end setup minus the crown gear in place (or remove the pinion gear and mount a rear end with a gear in place) and break in the brushes at 6 volts for 15-20 minutes, or twice as long at 3 volts. Make sure the car is pointed in the direction of travel so the motor is turning as it will when the car is on the track. Also make sure the rear end is in place so the rear of the chassis is not sitting on the track. I use rear ends from the old JL Thunderjets (AFX size) pullback chassis for this. Just make sure the pinion does not rub on the break-in axle. Monitor the car while it's breaking in and if it starts to squeal give it a tad more oil.

If you want to get more scientific with your break-in regimen, buy a multimeter (I picked up one that's "good enough" at Harbor Freight for less tha $4.00) and hook it up as an ammeter to measure the current draw of the motor while it is breaking in. For Tyco and Wizzard style cars the current draw at 6 volts should be around 180 milliamps, or 0.180 amps with no load on the motor. When you first start breaking the brushes in the current draw will be higher. Once it gets to the target value the brushes are probably set just about right. You may have to adjust the brushes (either way) to get to the target current draw. If your current draw is much higher you are going to eat through brushes and cook your motor. Note that too little brush tension can be as bad as too much, but too much is more common, at least for cars with adjustable brush tension.

Make up a handful of wire jumpers with small alligator clips on both ends. These come in handy for hooking your car and test track up for breaking in brushes and configuring meters for current measurements, which have to be done in series. A 6 volt latern battery serves as a good break-in source and having some jumpers around helps hook it up.

One of the biggest secrets of getting a cool and smooth running car is to be able to operate it over a wide range of voltages and under load while keeping the steady state (not accelerating or decelerating) current draw as close to the baseline value as possible. One of the best ways to achieve this dynamically off the track is with a dyno, but a good first step is to just get the no-load brush setup correct.

When testing and tuning on the track always use a temperature gauge and check your car every minute or so, or if it suddenly slows down. If the temperature does not stabilize at a reasonable value, say 140 degrees or less for SS and 160 degrees or less for Mod/RO but instead keeps climbing, stop immediately and figure out what is wrong. If you are in the middle of a race you may have to make a hard decision. With a stock or hot stock arm costing $3.00 - $12.00 you may decide to gamble. With a $40.00 - $60.00 custom wind you may want to call it it day if your car gets too hot.

Bill Hall
09-16-2007, 04:41 PM
Great intel!
Thanks for taking the time to share.

Slott V
09-17-2007, 03:43 PM
Zig I think you're confusing Box Stock with Super Stock. :confused:

In Box Stock, depending on the rules you are using, only the rear tires can be changed for slip-on silicones.

In Super Stock, the motor (arm and magnets)electrical system and chassis must be stock. However, there are many areas that can be upgraded or improved. You can balance the arm but it must have soldered tabs. Front ends can go to independent, rear wheels and tires can be replaced, electrical system must be stock in design but better grade materials can be used. Gears can also be upgraded and ratios are up to the builder/driver. Lexan or PTE bodies can also be used.

Slott V
09-17-2007, 04:12 PM
We like to run a version of Box Stock Tyco NASCAR stock cars in our group for the level of fun they offer with trading paint, sideways action and big crashes. Here are some tips we have used for years in getting a box stock pan chassis Tyco's to compete:

- Stock rear tires can be greatly improved by sanding them down. Avoid the newer rear tires with the bumpy surface.
- Silicones are a big help but to keep the class even all cars should run the same rear tire.
- Look for the older pan chassis cars (pre-Mattel). Better manufacturing all around and better armatures.
- Avoid the newer, fatter Grand Prix bodies as they handle like crap.
- Drop the nose with shorter front tires on the Stock Car rims, preferrably from the Indy car front wheels.
- Go with the ski shoes and tune them so they have contact on as much surface as possible.
- Some bodies handle better with the windows removed.
- Take the side-to-side slack out of the front axle/wheels.
- If you have directional switches on your track, try flipping the rear axle around to see if the arm runs faster the other direction.

zig
09-17-2007, 09:36 PM
Zig I think you're confusing Box Stock with Super Stock. :confused:

In Box Stock, depending on the rules you are using, only the rear tires can be changed for slip-on silicones.

Hello Slot V
We used to run Stock or what you call Box Stock and Open "Run what you brung"
Super Stock sounds pretty hard to police the rules to me!

Not really confusing with super stock... never raced them, just trying to make the point that tricks used for box stock may not be needed for classes where non-stock parts are legal :cool:

Not really the same subject but... I built a 440 indy car once with wizzard cobalt motor mags and a rocket arm it was wicked fast for about two race nights until it melted the armature bores to the point that the arm touched the motor mags :woohoo:

Wizzard made bulkheads with ball bearings but I just broke the set up and used the cobalts in one chassis, and the rocket arm in another.

Funny thing is... I built an HP7 with a TOMY TURBO motor(TYCOMY) and it ran nearly as fast as the 440 with the rocket arm and stuck like glue, it has ran for years with no trouble... go figure

ZIG

tamiyatim
01-08-2009, 04:48 PM
Does anybody make a simple clip to mount lexan bodies to the narrow 440x2 chassis??
I think Slotcarjohnny does but I'm not sure...

Hornet
01-09-2009, 01:49 PM
If you don't have a dyno,use your ears to tune it.Shoot for it's highest sounding RPM output,throw the amp draw numbers out the window,as they're useless for tuning with.To many guys seem hung up on amp draws,use your ears,they're a far better way to get the most from your slotcars.
I've seen to many guys back the brush tension off,to get to these magical amp draw numbers,only to find out they didn't have enough brush tension,and burn up a motor in a few laps.
To much brush tension is way better then not enough,it'll wear things out faster,but it'll take alot more laps,then not enough brush tension,before it kills the motor
Amp draws only work if everything is perfect,if you've got anything tight,it'll throw your amp draws out the window,and most guys will back off the brush tension,to get to these magical .18 amps,then burn up a motor.
If a dyno is not available,your ears are your best tuning aid,that even works for setting your tire heights,listen to your slotcars,the noises they make,are a great tuning guide,a noisy car is usually a little low,while a quiet car is usually a little to tall.
For you guys who've never done an amp draw reading,you'll need a multi-meter with a DC 10Amp setting,even the cheapest meters usually have this feature though.
The black lead is your common lead,it goes into the "Com" port marked on your meter,the red lead goes into the port marked usually "DC 10 Amp",then the red lead from your meter,hooks to the red or hot side of your power supply,the black lead from your meter then hooks usually to the drivers (left) side pick-up shoe,(depending on how you've wired your track,and it's direction of travel),the black or negative side of your power supply then hooks to the pass (right) side shoe,turn your meter to it's DC 10 amp setting and apply power to the car,the numbers displayed on the meter are your amp draw numbers,and show up as a number with a decimal point ahead of it,as has been described,something like a .18 number,these numbers also depend on the brushes you run,if you like the bigger brushes aka Bigfoots etc.,they'll draw quite a bit more amps.
If your coms are tending to run black on your armatures,you haven't got enough brush tension,contary to popular belief,excess oil won't cause your coms to run black,lack of brush tension causes them to run black

Hangtime
03-16-2011, 10:20 AM
This is good stuff. Bump it up

cwbam
03-16-2011, 02:01 PM
thanx Hangtime !

so with a little tinkering (the right bulkheads) and maybe mattle 3 ohm arm , matching motor magnets, North South traction
I'm starting to see the light.

Ovalhead
03-16-2011, 04:58 PM
This thread came back up at the perfect time, just a couple a weeks ago I started modifying all my older pan X2's, already picked up 2.5 seconds with up-graded traction mags and rear tars. :thumbsup:

That's still using the TYCO NASCAR hard bodies.

I really like the 440X2, always have. One tough cookie !

Thanks for the good read,
Cliff

Arless
03-22-2011, 11:56 PM
Stretch the motor brush springs to protrude from the barrels about 1/4 to 1/8 inch to add some "oomph" to the arm. Use a "dead" ball point ink pen and carefully round the edges between the commutator sections to smooth the arm.
If you run left turn ovals, swap the motor magnets ( and axle gear ) to the right side to make the armature turn to the right (to transfer weight to the left). (don't forget to change the rear gear orientation.

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98 I run my Tyco 440-2 cars at home we do not have a commercial track available, sadly lack of interest shut it down. I have two cars that are factory stock with matched motor magnets and factory 3.5 ohm armature and neo 42 traction mags. the other Tyco 440-2 is the same car, but with a 2.5 ohm green armature and high heat brush barrels and springs and Neo 52 traction magnets. I am new to magnet racing. I run the Tomy track Big Bank oval with high bank turns and the Bristol Tenn. layout. I run my cars clock wise around the track. Question is lighter fluid OK to use on the brushes, to bring back the power when they slow a little thanks a head of time Arless

Ovalhead
03-24-2011, 01:54 AM
Yes, lighter fluid will clean. I use it in a lot of different ways in slot's, from 1/24 to 1/64.
Little dab will do ya. I find it better for me to take it all a part and clean, blow dry, then reassemble. Voodoo will work but it is very abrasive for 1/64, I prefer it for the larger motors and braids.
Also, with the lighter fluid I'm running at about 6 volts on the test & tech block when I apply.

Hornet
03-24-2011, 07:17 AM
edit.

Arless
04-17-2011, 04:26 PM
If you don't have a dyno,use your ears to tune it.Shoot for it's highest sounding RPM output,throw the amp draw numbers out the window,as they're useless for tuning with.To many guys seem hung up on amp draws,use your ears,they're a far better way to get the most from your slotcars.
I've seen to many guys back the brush tension off,to get to these magical amp draw numbers,only to find out they didn't have enough brush tension,and burn up a motor in a few laps.
To much brush tension is way better then not enough,it'll wear things out faster,but it'll take alot more laps,then not enough brush tension,before it kills the motor
Amp draws only work if everything is perfect,if you've got anything tight,it'll throw your amp draws out the window,and most guys will back off the brush tension,to get to these magical .18 amps,then burn up a motor.
If a dyno is not available,your ears are your best tuning aid,that even works for setting your tire heights,listen to your slotcars,the noises they make,are a great tuning guide,a noisy car is usually a little low,while a quiet car is usually a little to tall.
For you guys who've never done an amp draw reading,you'll need a multi-meter with a DC 10Amp setting,even the cheapest meters usually have this feature though.
The black lead is your common lead,it goes into the "Com" port marked on your meter,the red lead goes into the port marked usually "DC 10 Amp",then the red lead from your meter,hooks to the red or hot side of your power supply,the black lead from your meter then hooks usually to the drivers (left) side pick-up shoe,(depending on how you've wired your track,and it's direction of travel),the black or negative side of your power supply then hooks to the pass (right) side shoe,turn your meter to it's DC 10 amp setting and apply power to the car,the numbers displayed on the meter are your amp draw numbers,and show up as a number with a decimal point ahead of it,as has been described,something like a .18 number,these numbers also depend on the brushes you run,if you like the bigger brushes aka Bigfoots etc.,they'll draw quite a bit more amps.
If your coms are tending to run black on your armatures,you haven't got enough brush tension,contary to popular belief,excess oil won't cause your coms to run black,lack of brush tension causes them to run black

All right Hornet, You seem to know a lot about slots. And this helps us novice to 1/64th scale. Question, Do the long silver brushes that are very brittle help with performance. I simply drop the brushes in the end bell and stretch the silver springs out, or use two springs to get enough tension for higher rpm. Thanks a head for your help. Arless

Hornet
04-17-2011, 11:33 PM
edit.

slotking
04-18-2011, 12:18 AM
everything depends on what your running
stock tyco barrels? use an 007 springs & 2 slottech silver brushes
with SS and close to stock silver is the best way

Salt & pepper is better for the faster cars, but I either use silver for SS or less and carbon for hot arms cause If i need more speed, i just use a bigger arm:woohoo:

if using an adjustable barrel, test your options and see what works best for you

Arless
05-01-2011, 09:38 PM
As with any magnet car drop the chassis as low as possibe without dragging the track(maybe slightly dragging in some casses). Yeah, I know its basic 101. The fastest car for home or commercial tracks in its class is a Tyco 440-2 with a green 2.5 ohm armature from Wizzard and other sources. With matched motor magnets. Neo 52 traction magnets, set the magnets for motor mod low down force. Which will help pull a load better. .007 silver brush barrel springs, long brushes. 7 p 25 c gears. round hard silicone rear tires. Use a set of front axles and wheels that are straight, And are independent from each tire. A good 35 ohm Parma hand controller. And if you can drive a race car?? it will out run a hybrid a BSRT G3 905EX and a 906M. A patriot, Wizzard, Slottect A G3 and anything else in its class. The 37 G 2.5 or 2.7 ohm armature is balanced, Trude and the comm is also Trude. If you want the cheapest and fastest car around this is it. Arless:thumbsup: