Im loving brushless so far. ive raced 10.5 a few times and 13.5 once and love it. i also have the 4.5 to play around with and that motor is insane! anyways i notice now theres a 17.5 and a 21.5 possibly coming out? and then using the lipos with them rather then the 4200 ib's. ok so how many classes is there goin to be? i think there might be to many if every few months theres goin to be another motor to buy. i personally wont buy any motor other then what i have till after the winter because im hopeing what i have will be good. i just hope the brushless doesnst get flooded with classes like i feel the brushed did. its boring running against 10 or less cars in a class weekly. just my thoughts. anyone want to share theres?

13.5 for me!

with the exception of lipo's

17.5 should be the stock class
13.5 is intermediate speed
10.5 is the new 19 turn class
open is open mod

the 21.5 would be for lipo racing as well as the 17.5
in the end it's up to the promoter and or track director to put a lid on the classes...

again with the exception of lipo....
i would like to see a oval world with 4 total classes

open mod any motor
17.5 stock
13.5 intermediate
10.5 19 turn replacement
drop brushed motors

worry about lipos when they fit in all oval cars.....just my take on brushless

I know our long term goal is 4 classes...ALL using LIPO, but in the transition...we're looking at classes that can go either way.

LONG TERM PLAN

LIPO/21.5 = CURRENT STOCK SPEED
LIPO/17.5 = CURRENT 10.5/4 cell SPEED
LIPO/10.5 = OPEN MOD SPEED

We've got no real plan to include the 13.5 unless there is a demand for it w/ LIPO...but it will be SILLY FAST too.

We WILL leave the door open for at least ONE 4 cell class TBA also, making the 4th class....as needed.

i can see how the long term plan goes. looks pretty interesting. i didnt realize that till now and seeing a few new classes come up had me worried. i do think that it is up to the track promoter to stay on top of the class count. id like to see a limit to 2 or 3 brushless pan classes at my local track. just makes for more compitition per class. thanks for the input guys!

Bill, when are you going to realize that the cars will have to fit the batteries instead of the batteries fitting the car. They already fit 99% of r/c cars so why should oval be any different? I also think 3 classes is plenty, drop the 10.5 class.with the exception of lipo's

17.5 should be the stock class
13.5 is intermediate speed
10.5 is the new 19 turn class
open is open mod

the 21.5 would be for lipo racing as well as the 17.5
in the end it's up to the promoter and or track director to put a lid on the classes...

again with the exception of lipo....
i would like to see a oval world with 4 total classes

open mod any motor
17.5 stock
13.5 intermediate
10.5 19 turn replacement
drop brushed motors

worry about lipos when they fit in all oval cars.....just my take on brushless

i would like to see a oval world with 4 total classes

open mod any motor
17.5 stock
13.5 intermediate
10.5 19 turn replacement
drop brushed motors


Bingo!!!!!

When everyone gets on this page then we will see some growth!

Li-po is coming and when it does SWTOUR has a good class structure in mind and we will have to make the cars fit the batteries.

We get on average 30-40 drivers a week at my local track. Last week 30 brushed and 3 brushless. It is has been hard to get everyone to switch over. Our local class lineup is as follows:

Sportsman Stock (we call ARCA): 27t with a lap limit
Brushless 10.5 (we call IROC): 10.5s
Sportsman 19 (we call Hooters): 19t with a lap limit
Pro 19 (we call Nextel): Ultrabird 19

The new lineup we are trying in a few weeks is as follows:
Sportsman Stock (ARCA): 10.5/or 27t with a lap limit
Brushless 13.5 (IROC): 13.5
Brushless 10.5 (Sprint Cup): 10.5
Sportsman 19 (Hooters): 10.5/ or 19t with a lap limit
Pro 19 (Nextel Cup): Ultrabird 19

About 6 locals got the 13.5 to run a 'pro stock' class, but have yet run on the track yet. So we will see how that goes. Lot of the 19 turn guys have 10.5s and want to run. But they also want to run the biggest class each week, so that is why we have 3 brushless and 12 pro 19 turns now racing.

This weekend we are doign a pro stock brushed class and have 54 drivers pre-signed up.
Oval is definitely going through changes. Brushed, brushless, Lipos and more. If car counts stay high then great. We have to look at that in the end to see if all this really making an impact. Work on your local level and keep guys racing. Thats the main goal we try to achieve.

i am ignoring lipo in 2007 because we still have nimh batteries and companies are still producing newer cells gp4600 trinity has a new EPcell IB is working on reliabilty issues each day...so until lipo is my only choice or 75% of the guys in floirda switch i will stick with nimh cells..they fit my chassis and have the correct voltage for my needs...it's no secret i want my own 5 volt lipo pack that fits all oval chassis.

we also have a huge 12th scale oval heard at the focar races and that i just plain ugly to make them rig a lipo pack in them...not to mention none of them own a brushless 12th scale and would need to do alot to go lipo. i'm past lipo and looking for a miracle technology that can adapt to 100% of all r/c cars needs.

i like the the idea of lap limits when it comes to using 13.5 and 27 turn together. helps make it a bit more fair and all. i hope this fall our local racing heats up with 13.5 and whatever other pan class is popular

i'm past lipo and looking for a miracle technology that can adapt to 100% of all r/c cars needs.


I reread this out loud and LMAO! Keep the faith, baby!LOL

i am on medication!

there is no way you can run 13.5 with stock, 13.5 is much fasteri like the the idea of lap limits when it comes to using 13.5 and 27 turn together. helps make it a bit more fair and all. i hope this fall our local racing heats up with 13.5 and whatever other pan class is popular

well the guys with 13.5 would reach there limits 40 seconds earlier,lol.

The reason we are going to allow it in our Sportsman class is in case a new racer gets started and wants to buy brushless. It beats sticking him out there with the pros running 13.5 open.

The reason we are going to allow it in our Sportsman class is in case a new racer gets started and wants to buy brushless. It beats sticking him out there with the pros running 13.5 open.


pro's in FL??????

i was assuming lap limits meant that lap time limits? in that case i think it would work fine. but who knows. and yes that would help novice so no matter what technology they have they can still race and have fun.

The reason we are going to allow it in our Sportsman class is in case a new racer gets started and wants to buy brushless. It beats sticking him out there with the pros running 13.5 open. If you want to allow a brushless motor in stock 4-cell make them run the new 17.5 NOVAK motor, with 4-cell it is supposed to be real close to stock speeds.

We have a lap limit in our sportsman classes. A new racer will be spinning and crashing more than turning good laps. So going with a motor like the 13.5 will allow them to move up without buying another motor in the future. The easiest for us was when it was all brushed we had 4 classes, sportsman stock, pro stock, sportsman 19, and pro 19. Trying to blend in brushless and keep head counts is the key and keep guys racing.

It's actually funny the things that brushless was suppose to help avoid is actually taking over right in place of brushed motors.

i agree john. just hope the classes get limited b4 it gets crazy. i hate buying a 13.5 racing it once and finding out i need a 17.5 to race now. lol im sure its not a big issue yet but 79.99 gets expensive quick!

You must be kidding? Woulda spent that much on brushes, springs, comms, teflon spacers, comm drops, etc. etc... for the first motor if you were running brushed motors. Not to mention Dyno time and figuring gearing when your motor wasn't quite the same AFTER the rebuild as it was before.....brushed motors are going the way of the flathead V-8, yeah you will see some people running them but in a few more years it will be mosty nostalgia .......even the RTR's are going brushless !

Ralf i understand how brushless is less expensive then brushed. but if i have to buy a new motor just to be legal in a certain class every few months then the price of racing goes up again. i just hope we dont see 10 different brushless classes with small amounts in every class.

i really just cant wait till fall to run some 13.5 :)

dave you are now a "pro" you raced for money!

It's actually funny the things that brushless was suppose to help avoid is actually taking over right in place of brushed motors.


Which things are these?

Here's my take (As a racer who runs way too many classes)

I have umpteen motors for every class I run

2 or 3 'handout' STOCKS
3 or 4 Street Specs.
7-8 STOCKS
12-15 19t's
over 15 MODIFIEDS

BRUSHES and SPRING combos for ALL of those...a COMM LATHE, BREAK IN MACHINE, BRUSH CUTTER, BRUSH SERRATER, (No MORE TURBODYNO - sold IT to go BRUSHLESS)

When I decided to go racing - I go because there is an event...and I never know WHAT class I'm going to run ahead of time.

Sometimes it depends on HOW I Feel that day - sometimes on how the car is working - and sometimes it depends on which class(es) the race director needs a couple more entries in to make a full class.

I almost always run at least 2 classes - just for the extra track time (Heaven knows I can USE it)

I carry a small SUITCASE for my motors and motor stuff.

Recently I added the B/L stuff to it. My B/L Box includes a LRP Neo1, and the rest are NOVAK's.

5.5
2 - 4300's (old style solder tabs, non sintered)
2 - 10.5's (sintered)
2 - 13.5's (one sintered, one I believe is not)

(NOTE)ALL of these were purchased USED except the 5.5, which was NEW with the GTB purchase...and got put away after it's FIRST run (TOO MUCH FOR ME)

I also have in this box the "TEST" motors we've been testing for 17.5, and now the 21.5's.

The 17.5's I've only run a couple times - normally I have them in sombody ELSES car so they can do the testing and I can record the test info. The 21.5's will be the same way.

But, when this is all shaken down - my BRUSHED MOTOR SUIT CASE is going to be replace by a B/L Motor box with probably 6 - 8 motors, these 6 - 8 motors will give me all the speed ranges to do what I like to do know w/ BRUSHED as far as being able to run ANY class...and I won't be hauling ALL of the other MOTOR BUILDING Crap to the track - no more BOX of BRUSHES, etc. (Don't know why I carried that stuff anyway - I hate building motors at a track...and usually just changed motors...but I hated NOT having it with me)

The AVERAGE guy who only runs one class at a race but isn't quite sure WHAT speed he wants to run - could simply have a box with 3 - 4 B/L motors.

If you want/plan to stay with NiMh 4 cell, your box would/could be

17.5
13.5
10.5

Plus ONE extra for the class which will be your 'PRIMARY' class (cause everyone should have a backup motor)

With the LIPO Plan the options are more like

21.5 (STOCK SPEED)
17.5 (10.5/4 cell speed)
10.5 (MOD/4 cell speed)

Haven't run 13.5 on LIPO YET, but it's going to be FAST too

For MOST Oval Racing - you wouldn't need anything any quicker (unless you are like some of us SPEEDFREAKS who run VELODROMES....then a MOD/LIPO class might be up your alley too)

i hate buying a 13.5 racing it once and finding out i need a 17.5 to race now. lol im sure its not a big issue yet but 79.99 gets expensive quick!

A couple cool things about a B/L motor vs. a Brushed motor is the wear and the retained resale value.

Now, they won't retain a 79.99 value, but that is I believe in great part because so many people don't pay that much for them (I'd guess a lot of guys are getting them closer to 60 - 65.00.

But, if you look at running we'll say a 13.5 and you get 2 race weekends out of it.

3 heats + a Main at each one x's 2 for a total of (8) 4 to 5 minute races. That motor cost you $10.00 per RACE, but now if you find out...you don't want or like that particular motor...and SELL it here on HOBBYTALK for $45.00 Shipped, you just dropped your cost to $5.00 per HEAT on motor expense.

I know a lot of guys who use a NEW set of brushes and springs every heat...plus CUT the COMMS - do the useful life span, and per heat expense of a BRUSHED MOTOR...then try to SELL IT when you are done - GOOD LUCK.

I agree the $80.00 is expensive (which is why ALL the motors in MY box were bought here on HOBBYTALK used - and non were more than $50.00, and most were closer to $35.00.) This turnaround with motors lets the 'upfront' guys keep a fresh motor in their car...cheap - AND keeps a market opened for guys like ME who would rather put my money in the race series promotion..than in my car.

i 100% agree brushless is alot cheaper. in the long run and actually right away for most racers also. im just worried about there being to many choices of classes making less racers in the class then there could be.

17.5
13.5
10.5

that doesnt sound to bad if you ask me. when you put it that way i can see it not bein to bad. and ofcourse once lipos become more common then throwing in the 21.5 and taking off the 10.5 is more favorable id say. and i guess if you can get the lipo guys with a 21.5 to race against the 13.5 with the Nimhs then i guess the classes wont be thinned out to bad. we will have to see this fall and winter. i personally cant wait :)

It's actually funny the things that brushless was suppose to help avoid is actually taking over right in place of brushed motors.

I read this comment NOT as a reason to once again try to compare brushed to brushless costs, but as a true reality that this can easily get out of control if we let it.

Thanks Todd,
Someone got it.

As the swirling has already begun...

I read this comment NOT as a reason to once again try to compare brushed to brushless costs, but as a true reality that this can easily get out of control if we let it.


Agreed...we ARE our own WORST enemies when it comes to killing things...or letting them get out of control.

This comes from everybody worrying more about what THEY want....vs. what is good for the overall health of the Sport/Hobby. (I admit I'm guilty of this myself plenty of the time, but moreso I'm about wanting things to be GOOD as a whole...I can adapt)

Bottom line is we race what is fun to us. I feel that it is up to race directors to guide the racers who show up at their track to the most appropriate class. It is also up to a race director to help promote classes that are most likely to be run locally, regionally, and lastly nationally. If there was a way that race directors could be all on the same page so that they could stay ahead of changes instead of being run over by them, I think that would be ideal.

As brushless becomes more prevalent in oval racing, I hope that organizations and directors help direct racers with what is best for the hobby. But I also hope they don't dictate what has to be run. We have a chance with brushless to keep it under control if the racers and organizers can control themselves.

whens the reverse rotation brushless coming out so i can run my switchblade LSD LOL! :thumbsup:

whens the reverse rotation brushless coming out so i can run my switchblade LSD LOL! :thumbsup:
This probably isn't what you are talking about....but the Novak XBR esc has:

...the next feature to make its debut in a Novak ESC (XBR) is the Built-in Motor Rotation Selector. This feature enables the user to easily select the direction of the motor rotation. This feature is ideal for vehicles with drivetrains that require the motor to rotate clockwise (rather than its normal counter-clockwise rotation).

The issue will always be the same until there are LESS CLASS's! Period! Forget about cars fitting batts and vise versa, Racers need to fit into a class if there were 10.5 and Mod, and that was your choice, belive me you'll choose, and for the racer who says I would'nt race anymore! Then go play with Barbie Dolls!!Back in the early 90's it was 6-cell stock, and MOD, Period! It was nothing to go to a National and see 100 racers or more in a class, All these class's are ridiculas, it's real fun to travel 100'rds of miles to have 14 racers in you class!! Get real. ZUBAK

Back in the early 90's it was 6-cell stock, and MOD, Period!

AND THEY WERE SLOW AS ROCKS compared to todays technology...and we didn't have nearly as good of VIDEO GAMES and/or COMPUTER GAMES and all the other things to fight against to keep peoples interest.

I started running MODIFIED because NORRCA Split classes into EXPERT and SPORTSMAN

STOCK (both expert and sportsman) were too much about the MOTOR OF THE WEEK and spending $$$$ on motor tuning, but when the opportunity to run MOD came up for a large group of us STOCK racers...we jumped on it....because we did the math - and we could GO FASTER than we could handle...and do it CHEAPER than what we were spending racing in the STOCK class.

Of course WE SUCKED at it - but MAN did we have a good time as a group. There is NO way we belonged on the track with a TONY NEISINGER, JOE MACGREGOR, JOEL JOHNSON, GARY HAMILTON, DAVE POTTER and any of the other HotShoes at that time...cause we'd barely outqualify the STOCK guys cause we were so out of control...but DAMN Was it FUN! Funny thing was - any one of us could buy a decent enough MOD MOTOR OTC to be quicker than our TALENT would let us run.

Was the SPORTSMAN/EXPERT Split a good thing? For some reasons it was - but for others it hurt turnouts I believe at some of the bigger shows. (Mainly because guys would show up at a BIG SHOW and CHERRY PICK the SPORTSMAN CLASS for a CHAMPIONSHIP as a class RINGER and that discouraged the 'true' sportsman class drivers.

NOVAKTWO,

I was actually going to ask Charlie about that the other day...

Since everyone is moving the weight to the left so much already - I'm suprised nobodys doing the Rev Rotation and flipped the motor to the other side already.

The issue will always be the same until there are LESS CLASS's! Period! Forget about cars fitting batts and vise versa, Racers need to fit into a class if there were 10.5 and Mod, and that was your choice, belive me you'll choose, and for the racer who says I would'nt race anymore! Then go play with Barbie Dolls!!Back in the early 90's it was 6-cell stock, and MOD, Period! It was nothing to go to a National and see 100 racers or more in a class, All these class's are ridiculas, it's real fun to travel 100'rds of miles to have 14 racers in you class!! Get real. ZUBAK Oval racing will start to grow again when the racers with this type of thinking retire from the hobby....

Ya know, I kinda have to defend Zubie on this one, as he has a valid point. Maybe it's the economy, maybe it's because there's so many other venues of entertainment and hobby that exists, maybe people are too damn lazy, I don't know. But, late 80's and early 90's, you basically had two classes (stock and mod) for oval, off-road, an on-road- and the crowds were huge compared to today.
I'm 32, so I like the technology of today compared to what we had. But, I started in '87, so I've, like Zubie, seen the changes in crowds and attendance both on club and national levels. We see that number of classes has greatly increased, and overall numbers has dropped. I remember being in the "K" at the off-road nats in 89, and proud that there were many mains below that. Find me a "K" main anywhere anymore- not sure the 'Birds can pull that off.
Maybe guys like Zubak and I are looking at it wrong, but there's a lot of people that look at it today and say "what happened?" where someone that started, say, in the last 5 -10 years have never seen. It's what we have to use as a gauge, and for me, it's hard to ignore...

I think three classes as a goal is plenty, maybe four if you want a serious beginner's aka wallbanger class. The bigger issue right now is that the hobby is in a transition period, with brushless and lipo being taken together and seperately. For at least another year you're going to see a struggle to get everybody to fit in somewhere, and the drop in attendance sets a premium on making racers happy and not turning them away.
Slow, Medium, and Fast for classes sounds great, the tricky part is in our current state of technology flux we're not sure where we'll wind up, or how we'll get there.

All these class's are ridiculas, it's real fun to travel 100'rds of miles to have 14 racers in you class!!

We on the west coast don't have the luxury of big turnouts...and we have a pretty small group of guys we race with month in and month out...and ALL of our races are 100's of miles apart - so it's part of OUR racing life. 1/2 the fun is the road trip.

To me what's NOT fun is only having ONE track to race at over and over and over - I like Variety - (and so do most of the guys who participate in our series)

This is why we travel as much as we do even though we are a small group - it's the challenge of being at a different track every month...and trying to make each race as exciting as it can be with the group you are racing against. (I hate NASCAR comparisons...but look at those guys - they race NATIONWIDE but only have 42 other competitiors ...and most of the time there are really only 20 - 25 REAL competitiors.)

I don't have to have 100 people in a class to be involved in a GOOD race. If you have 15 guys in a single class, 8 of which will get to run the A main, transfer one of them from a "B" You've got an 8 car "B" main and a 8 car "A" main and if the field is equal YOU HAVE A RACE that is and will be exciting for all involved. IS IT WORTH a 6ft tall trophy with a NATIONAL TITLE attached to it? NO! But every race can NOT be 'THAT RACE'

Todd and John,
I tried to fight that battle over in the ARCOR thread, check it out if you haven't. Clearly the attitude is if you're not in the A-main right away then racing isn't fun. It's a shame.

Ralf,
You may not believe it, but I would be very willing to bet that the majority of guys who are willing to spend the money to travel feel the way John, Todd and myself do.

It is very difficult for me to justify dropping a minimum of $500 to travel to race against fewer then 10 guys. I can spend $30 to race against more guys then that at my home tracks.

JB, SWTour and yourself keeping telling me all these classes are what racers want, but I certainly haven't seen much growth in ARCOR. Yet at the same time the series that offered 2-3 classes was a huge hit with the racers. To be honest I think that says it all about what racers really want.

main and if the field is equal YOU HAVE A RACE that is and will be exciting for all involved.

My point which I have said over and over is that that almost never happens. If you have 30+ guys racing together you are basically guaranteed some decent tight racing. If you have 8 classes with 8 guys each you typically get 1st and 2nd beating 3rd and 4th by a lap and 5th through 8th by another lap. That isn't good racing. Refer to the results I showed from the ARCOR Worlds on the other thread.

I'm tired of hearing about the 'good ole days' from the old timers where there were 2 classes and hundred of racers. I think you old farts are suffering from selective memory loss or you've forgotten to take off your rose colored glasses. Quit complaining about having too many classes and do something, ANYTHING to promote the class turn-out in the classes that you like to run. But quit BS'ing yourself and the rest of us into thinking that less is going to be more in this day and age. All we hear about is how we need to go back to stock and mod. Well I have a reality check - maybe stock and mod have outlived their viability in the current state of technology.

I rarely see any old timers doing anything at the track to promote this hobby. These guys sit in a corner surrounded by thousands of dollars of equipment and are so into their own world that I'd rather approach a starving grizzly bear than ask them a question. They rarely bother to notice the struggling drivers at a local event, are too busy wrenching on their cars, talking with their exclusive group of friends, or making the rest of us wait while they try to get 30 more seconds of charge before their heat, or disappear back into their pits after their heat and force the race director to beg them to turn marshall.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - There are too many classes today because (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) drove out the fun in this hobby for the other racers. Racers who do this for fun, people who pay out of pocket, and people that just couldn't compete created classes that they could have fun it. Why is it so hard for some of you to accept the reality of this?

As some of the long time racers have tried to point out, cars were a lot slower back in the good 'ole days. Granted the pan cars were different, but I'm sure it is a lot easier to make a wide pan car work back then with a mod motor than it is today to make a stock/13.5 motor work with a narrow pan car. Again, I don't get why some people don't understand that slower CAN BE BETTER. Instead too many of you (myself included) are worried about going faster every time we put our car on the track.

I'll end my rant with this. Fewer classes in general probably would be better. But are people willing to admit to themselves that for the good of this hobby that they might just have race something new/different than what they are running today? It is easy to complain about all those 'other classes' being too much, but maybe the accepted classes of today need to be scrapped to open up more room for the better classes of tomorrow.

Yeah, Pat... I did see your posts on the ARCOR forum... Also seeing the responses you got back kinda keeps me away from ARCOR as a whole. Sounds like some fun places to go, and some good racers. But with the mess that's over there, naaah....

That's my biggest concern- seems like everyone has to be a winner with instant gratification. If someone gets their ass handed to them, they switch classes or make a new one. As my son's ten, I do know there's a need to have stepping stones. While he can drive good laps with my 4300 car, he don't need to be running that fast with other guys on the track. I also understand that there's transitions in racing that we struggle with everyday. We have brush & brushless, NiMH and LiPo on the horizon. There's a lot of new things coming without a lot of regulation on them- that scares me a little.

As for traveling, I love traveling out to New England (Pat, sure I'll see ya at Maximus a time or two) as the racing's as tough as it gets, and fun. Right now, it's stock and 19 turn, with 4300 brushless migrating in. And they get good turnouts, as 4300 seems to be guys "second class" as the maintenance is low. Problem is, I can't practice 4C stock here, and I hate that. But, that's nature of the beast. What I DON'T want to happen is to show up at a new track and find out that they race "something else". Here's an example....
in our northern Indiana area, 4300 brushless is popular (as well as 5800's) I went to head to Pontoon Beach (can't remember the new name) All 13.5. Fort Wayne's regular oval crowd, which is small- 13.5. Hard to argue, as that's what their locals run. But, damnit all the same. I really don't want to see hunderds of little local classes that are all different. I, believe it or not, LIKED it when there was only stock and mod. I liked it when I had to bust my ass to run good.

Darn, I missed your rant, Indy. I will say that I do agree with you on many points, in particular the rude racers.

I'll admit to being one of the old school racers that liked things simple. Maybe it only needs to be 21.5 / LiPo, and 17.5 LiPo in the future. I don't know, and I'm ready to accept the new stuff. What does concern me is when you have 8 classes of three cars, particularly when you race the same people. (Indy, I remember seeing you doing TC oval at JAM's, which looks cool, but is in one of "those" categories if you travel. You raced two other guys and smoked them bad, couldn't have been fun, though...? I understand that's popular down by Indy, but around here, nada.) Guess that's the point I'm making. I want to see the turnouts come back. As I venture into track ownership, I hope to help that on all accounts. I don't care what the classes are, I just wanna race- and that is become difficult in oval racing. (Example: I can take my 12th scale to any road course track that races on-road. Provided there's 12th racers, I don't have to worry about what rules package I have to run...) I can't always do that in oval. Hell, Pat is in the same boat. He races 13.5 in the BRL (rather good, I might add) He'll have to single-handedly bring 13.5 to New England. Last time I was there, I got asked a hundred questions about it, but nobody had one.

Second point, while I think the technology is neat that's out today, I'm also concerned about the item of the week coming back. Us "old timers" were around to see the stock motor boom of the late '80's before the current rules were set. It was MISERABLE. Yokomo, Trinity, Race Prep... 25 degree, 36 dergee, 45 degree... We spent so much (our faults) chasing that elusive ghost called .01 on the clock. Everyone's introducing a BL motor. There's tons of LiPo's on the market (some good, some not) There needs to be someone to sit down and say, "here we go, boys- here's your limits". Us old timers are sitting back, watching, saying, "Uh oh.... Here we go again". The stock motor thing kinda sorted itself out, as I'm sure BL and LiPo will. But, in a time where RC is competing with EVERYTHING under the sun, we need effective ways to build the hobby. I'm not sure we're on that path right now.

One other thought (and I know this is off-topic, sorry) The racers that push the others away, in my opinion, need to be dealt with. I've had my spats with others at times. But, when it becomes no fun for racers because of a particular racer or two, that racer needs to be dealt with. I strongly stand to that. Perhaps if some of the promoters keep these guys under wraps, it'd be less of a problem than it is now. I do have a hard time disagreeing with the statement, "There are too many classes today because (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) drove out the fun in this hobby for the other racers. Racers who do this for fun, people who pay out of pocket, and people that just couldn't compete created classes that they could have fun it."

I'm tired of hearing about the 'good ole days' from the old timers where there were 2 classes and hundred of racers. I think you old farts are suffering from selective memory loss or you've forgotten to take off your rose colored glasses. Quit complaining about having too many classes and do something, ANYTHING to promote the class turn-out in the classes that you like to run. But quit BS'ing yourself and the rest of us into thinking that less is going to be more in this day and age. All we hear about is how we need to go back to stock and mod. Well I have a reality check - maybe stock and mod have outlived their viability in the current state of technology.

I rarely see any old timers doing anything at the track to promote this hobby. These guys sit in a corner surrounded by thousands of dollars of equipment and are so into their own world that I'd rather approach a starving grizzly bear than ask them a question. They rarely bother to notice the struggling drivers at a local event, are too busy wrenching on their cars, talking with their exclusive group of friends, or making the rest of us wait while they try to get 30 more seconds of charge before their heat, or disappear back into their pits after their heat and force the race director to beg them to turn marshall.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - There are too many classes today because (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) drove out the fun in this hobby for the other racers. Racers who do this for fun, people who pay out of pocket, and people that just couldn't compete created classes that they could have fun it. Why is it so hard for some of you to accept the reality of this?

As some of the long time racers have tried to point out, cars were a lot slower back in the good 'ole days. Granted the pan cars were different, but I'm sure it is a lot easier to make a wide pan car work back then with a mod motor than it is today to make a stock/13.5 motor work with a narrow pan car. Again, I don't get why some people don't understand that slower CAN BE BETTER. Instead too many of you (myself included) are worried about going faster every time we put our car on the track.

I'll end my rant with this. Fewer classes in general probably would be better. But are people willing to admit to themselves that for the good of this hobby that they might just have race something new/different than what they are running today? It is easy to complain about all those 'other classes' being too much, but maybe the accepted classes of today need to be scrapped to open up more room for the better classes of tomorrow.

Wow!
I hope this is more a general statement then one addressed at the people posting on this thread!

I'm sorry if you have a beef with some of the guys you race with locally, but don't project it onto the rest of the RC world. The top guys are no more or less likely to be nice guys then the bottom guys are. In my experience most of the top guys are willing to give you the shirt off their back, if you ASK. You do have to ask though, which I don't think is too much to expect.

As for speed part of what you said I don't think anyone is saying the classes need to be fast. The speed of the classes is beside the point, we just want fewer of them. A slow, medium and fast class is all we need. I personally don't care whether my preferred class is included. I'll conform to whatever, most guys who travel would probably agree on that.

As for racing something new and different all the guys you are talking to are BL racers. Personally I started running 4300 in 2004 when there were only about 5 of us doing it, because I thought it was better and I wanted it to grow. I promote it to anyone who will listen, which you should have seen on here.

The norm nowadays is having a zillion classes at the big events. Well it isn't working! Those of us who want to go to 2-3 classes are the ones who actually want something different from the current norm.

Basically you say that the guys who are good have ruined racing because not everyone can win. Well it has always been and will always be that way. Not everyone gets to win, that's life. It's unfair to place blame and be angry at the people who are better at something. Just race in the main that you qualify for and have fun with the guys at your level in that main. Win it and be proud of winning against guys at your level.

Basically it all goes back to one thing. If a guy can't win an A-main he can't have fun. Like I said before, that is a shame.

I'll end my rant with this. Fewer classes in general probably would be better. But are people willing to admit to themselves that for the good of this hobby that they might just have race something new/different than what they are running today? It is easy to complain about all those 'other classes' being too much, but maybe the accepted classes of today need to be scrapped to open up more room for the better classes of tomorrow.

WOW! Sometimes you just need someone to tell it 'point blank'....my eyes have been opened!

(Pat, sure I'll see ya at Maximus a time or two)

Definitely! The SOS race is on my schedule. I haven't decided yet if I'll do 4300 or 13.5 or both.

Definitely! The SOS race is on my schedule. I haven't decided yet if I'll do 4300 or 13.5 or both.

Allow me to help with your decision..........4300!!! :cool:

Allow me to help with your decision..........4300!!! :cool:

LOL alright, but don't say I didn't warn you if I end up holding you up!