I received my case of A/W Release 3 X-Tractions from Jeff at Motorcitytoyz (and a big :thumbsup: to Jeff for his service on the purchase). Now I need to get them all 'race ready', and would like input from you guys.

So far, I have done nothing to them (not even opened but two of them), but I do have some initial thoughts on my next steps.

I was able to win a bid for some of wierd Jack's blem tires, so that is one step (although in another thread I read that some of you guys are actually very pleased with the stock tires these come with).

Another step is to limit the movement of the pick-up shoes, and this one is causing me some grief in doing. Mking had previously sent me some heat-shrink tubing for situations like this, but I think I need a different width of tubing for these shoes. I had some 3/8 tubing, and was able to shrink it down to work, put it was quite a pain. I found you need really small slivers of the stuff, or they will get caught up on the body of the car. The large size also seemed to prevent me from using the tip that Swamper Gene had posted about putting my ColdHeat soldering iron to use for this (I was anxious to find a use for this device). I also tried the rubberband trick, but my first attempt didn't work as the rubberband edge got caught on the front wheel hubs. Again, some real small precision cutting should solve this, and between one of the above choices I think I will somehow master this.

So what else do I need to do?

I do think I need to change out the guide slot 'blades' to a pin type, but not sure what to buy for this. I tried to push a SG+ pin in, but stopped before I broke something. Is there another type of guide pin that slides right in?

Where do I apply oil to these cars, and where do I NOT want oil to touch?

Do I need to be concerned about 'break-in procedures' for these cars, if they are just intended to be runners for my friends and family?

I know alot of what I am asking may be regurgitation of info buried in threads, but I appreciate your help in advising tips here.

Thank you for your help.

Jeff

I used SG+ guide pins, they're a snug fit but better than the blades IMHO. Depending on how fast you want to go I would suggest polymer magnets and possibly Hi-Pro motor brushes and springs. There are plated pick up shoes available (gold and silver) but I haven't noticed any increase in performance with them. Mean green arms are hit and miss so stick with the stocker I'd say. Each has their own oiling process, mine may not be what someone elses is so I'll keep that one to myself. Bill told me a break in method but I can't seem to find it now. Of course, to save those wonderful collectors bodies you should immediately order vacuformed Eagle open wheel bodies for them, that way you can race and preserve the collectors nature of the cars.

Jeff, I'm a diehard advocate of doing what you can with what's there before going wild on a car, doing it this way you become intimate with the details of each chassis in stock form rather than becoming addicted to aftermarket stuff. These cars get a bad rap a lot of times because in my opinion some people get so accustomed to changing so much right out of the box that they can't drive 'em stock anymore.

My idea of tips for you at this stage? Make sure the arm gear is pressed straight on the shaft. Get rid of the factory grease and oil all friction points on the gearplate...arm hole, idler pin, and drive/pinion assembly. soak up any standing oil when done. Make sure your brushes are flat and not pitted. Use a spare piece of track to help set up the shoes...contact areas as flat as possible and adjusted for maximum rail contact. You should not need shoe restriction on XT's. Flip over the stock guide flag and use the pin. True your front tires if ya can, throw on those aftermarket rears, and have at it.

Always question your own skills as much as you question the quality of the chassis.

Now, to back all this up, I'll use a case from this afternoon. Having moved back in March, I just finally got to reassembling the SnakePit. 68' +/- of twisty 4-lane Tomy track...6" curves and all, 18.8V 10A non-adjustable supply. Today the neighborhood kids were scoping it out, after a cleaning I let some of them run some cars, T-Jets and JL/AW cars, tuned but all stock except for rear tires (I am adamantly against starting kids on rail suckers). Inside a half hour, all four of them could make multiple laps with various cars without crashing or deslotting. Here's a rundown of the players:

1 girl, age 5
another girl, age 5
one boy, age 4 1/2
another boy, age 8

That, to me, says alot. Smiles galore, too. Sure it was a little tough at first, but one practice of mine prevailed and made them look at their own driving rather than playing the "'nuther car please" game: If ya crash, ya gotta fix it yourself. :thumbsup:

SwamperGene,

Good advice...my 3 1/2 year old boy sometimes plays the "another car please" game. Once you get them used to one car they can get the feel for it and keep going.

If you find cars that you like to run better than the rest....use those. Changing cars now and then as not to wear out and heat up the pancakes.

I have cars that are shelf queens and then have cars that get run, run, run.

This is basic but, I use masking tape rolled sticky side up on a piece of wood. Once in a while just roll your tires on the tape to clean them. As tape gets dirty just tear off that part and Va,va,va-Vooom you have new fresh tape again.

Have fun racing Jeff, Bob...zilla

P.S. Racing sounds like a good idea. After I get my Willys pics up....Vroooom, vrooom gonna race the wheels of of it tonight along with some other of my ready to race creations.

I have to agree with Gene.
Sorting out what you have is the ticket.

You cant tune a piano if you cant tuna fish.

All AFX/Xtrac shoes are restricted by the original design change from T-jet! Proper shoe tuning can really wake a dog up. Most Xtracs tend to plow the shoes right up front at the base of the hanger window. A little tweak to relieve the front angle is all that's required most times. Once you aquire the feel for moving the contact patch around by gentle tweaks you'll eventually learn to hear the difference between plowing and dragging without even having to look at the wear pattern.

Ensuring that wheels tires and axles are round/true will correct inexplicable handling disorders (Bobzilla calls this the "clown car syndrome"). Gene's "cockeyed armature gear syndrome" is pretty easy to spot by rolling the back wheels and watching to see if the gear is wandering around like a drunk chick.

If you suspect something is out of wack, change one thing at a time ONLY so you know what makes the difference. Nuthin worse than getting somewhere and not knowing how ya got there. :p

Seemingly unconventional, but fundamentals are where it's at. Whenever I encounter an annoying tuning problem it is generally solved by a return to the roots of good tuning practice.

After market parts do not automatically a rocket make! Often they can excaserbate an unrelated/unresolved tuning issue.

Learn to make your cars smooth and handle well before you chase horsepower. Practice, repitition, and paying close attention are the primary tools.

Got a problem Scaf? Post up! The combined knowledge of this group is staggering. :thumbsup:

More basic, good stuff guys.

Bob on the tape thing, I used to stock up on duct tape (color coded for the lanes, even) at a "Dollar Store" but learned quickly that even with tape quality counts. A good brand like 3M, Scotch, Duck, etc. makes a huge difference in the results and if you have a timer setup you will see it immediately. Of course, I say this with a cheapie roll sitting on the track shelf as I type, lol, but it is true.

Bill is right on the nose-heavy shoes, and on Tomy 6" and sometimes 9" curves this can make the cars simulate hitting a brick wall as the shoes actually fall into the rail joints, abruptly hitting the z-bend of the rail. I've seen it happen on straights too, makes for some real cool crashes as the car flips end over end down the track, lol.

As an example of studying the cars a little closer, here's a link to a post I just threw up concerning tight XT gearplates, given you have a quantity of cars might be someting to look at as you go over them: "Cockeyed XT Gearplate Syndrome" (http://slotcars.yuku.com/topic/381/t/XT-s-Sometimes-being-tight-is-a-bad-thing-.html?page=-1) lol

Gene,

Thanks for that link on the Cockeyed Gearplate Syndrome....I will be checking all mine soon. That is an easy fix but, never realy took the time to look. Duh...

Bill,

You are so right on with fixing one thing at a time!

Now after all this you can get a set of Aluminum threaded rims and axles for your favorite ride. There not just for the display case.

Bob...zilla

Bill. I think its "you can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish" and I think it was REO Speedwagon.
And drunk chicks don't wander,their still running from you, ya old pervert, lol.

Bill. I think its "you can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish" and I think it was REO Speedwagon.
And drunk chicks don't wander,their still running from you, ya old pervert, lol.

Har Daddy! I was wunderin if some old fart would notice the journalistic latitude I took. Sorta warped it to make my point.

BTW, Takes one to know one, ya Dirt nap Daddy! :tongue:

Hi Scaf, here's a link to a previous thread, hope it helps with prepping your XT's:

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=95256&highlight=xtraction+tips

i really, really like the XT. i actually prefer the JL versions to the AW versions, becasue i dont like the front end on the AW version. i think the front axle holes are too large for the frnt axle, and it flops around more than i like.

the heat shrink tubing trick i only use on JLTO or Tjets, the XTs do not seem to need it.

here is what i do.

1. remove and match magents. i use a magnet matcher that has a hall sensor, and hook that up to a volt/ohm meter to get a numerical reading. the unit i have has the rear half of a bare tjet chassis glued on top with the hall sensor where the arm would go. put the magnet in the chassis and read the meter. for example, with no magnet in the chassis, the meter reads 51. with a red magnet the meter might read 83. 84-51=34. for a white magnet the meter might read 16. 51-16=35. those magnets are not perfectly matched, the white magnet is a little stronger. i usually do 10 chassis worth of magent at once. i write the numer (34 or 35) on the magnet in black marker.

i should admit that the AW/JL magnets seem to be alot better matched from the factory than old auroara magnets (though i always end up with more strong white magnets than strong red magnets), so you could skip this part. i do it to justify my purchase of a magnet matcher.

2. buff the gears. i havent tried swamper's trick to fix gears that are misalinged. if i get a poorly running top plate i usually just set that aside. maybe i can recover some of those. i put the top plate in a bare chassis, with the gear clamp. i use a wire brush in a dremel. i touch each gear with the wire brush. once you get the hang of it you can drive the gears foward and backward (you want to go both directions). you can see the gears change color a bit as the wire brush buffs the gears. you dont need to use really strong pressure or alot of time. i usually spend a minute or so on the gears. dont forget the gear under the top plate. i do the same trick to the crown gear.

3. clean the brushes by rubbing them on cardstock or slightly rough paper.

4. oil the rear axle before reassembly (its easier). reassemble and oil. oiling points: front axle holes, rear axle holes, crown gear, idler gear, pinion gear (too much oil here will leak downward and foul brushes), arm shaft at bottom of chassis between brushes (oil lightly here!!@! too much oil will foul the brushes).

5. track test.

ive heard about the hi-pro motor brushes and springs ,,,,but where do you get this stuff? any part numbers or dealers. :confused:

Do I need to be concerned about 'break-in procedures' for these cars, if they are just intended to be runners for my friends and family?

Thank you for your help.

Jeff

Seems to be the part of your inital post that most people are missing. In that context:

Pull 'em out of the box, yank the bodies, and throw 'em on the track. Sort 'em based on how they run (or don't run). Take the best few chassis and oil 'em up and add the Rocket Science tires. Pick the bodies you want to run and put 'em on the chassis you that you just prepped. Tweek the pick-up shoes for a full contact patch. Have FUN!

If you have a Ford GT in the bunch: The big front axle holes allowed the tires to rub the body, raising all manner of hell. A narrow O-ring type tire allowed enought clereance to make it useable. The '71 Charger Stocker looks as if the front end was jacked up to "fix" any tire/fender interference problem. I can't come up with any other reason for it to be so high in the front. The first thing I'd check on a chassis that is suddenly a dog after a body was put on is the front tire clearence.

Thanks for all the tips.

I have bookmarked this thread to re-read as I get more comfortable with tweaking the cars.

I totally agree with the 'baby steps', but some of you guys have posted 'marathon step tips' to where I am currently at. :-)

Pete: I should have just pushed harder on the SG+ pin I tried. I was as worried about breaking something on the car with my left hand as the needle nose pliers in my right hand were trying to push in the pin.

Gene: Your tips are some I will need to refer back to later. I did flip over the guide pin though. I like the pin better for easier re-slotting, but it is about 1/16" shorter then the blade, which I would think would make more deslots. The SG+ pin is same length, so I think I will stay with the stock plastic ones for now, until I see a real need to swap in steel pins. I do have a question on the shoe restriction (see below).

Bob: I will do the tape thing - I had heard of that, but had forgotten it already.

Bill: You said "All AFX/Xtrac shoes are restricted by the original design change from T-jet!"
With the apostrophe and all, this sounds important, but I don't understand it. :(

I tried to tweak a pick-up shoe last night, and it resulted in the shoe not touching at all. I'm sure it is just a learned touch I will develop, but the thought crossed my mind of a jig that you could drop a shoe into, press, and then have a perfect shoe. (Probably an overkill solution, but I throw it out there anyway). Some of the shoes of these new X/T's just fell off the chassis when I opened the box.

dlw: Thanks for the link. Have saved it for review.

Mike:
If your post is here --->
My head:


is here: --- >
But thank you, because I have high hopes for my knowledge growth on these things.

twolff: Exactly the baby steps I was looking for. I did what you said - removed all the chassis, and got through about half of them last night. Didn't have any that seemed to be flat out duds, and honestly, couldn't tell much difference between any of them. For now, I am considering those all tested good and equal. :-)

I haven't received the silicone tires yet, and I think I will tread lightly on swapping them on (more baby steps). I'm worried about larger diameter tires reducing the magnetic attraction.

My focus right now is pick-up shoes. Gene stated above that I should not need shoe restriction on these XT's, but to the rookie I am, it looks to me like this is an issue. The stock shoes are just a hair above the bottom of the guide pin when not sitting on the track. I believe that with Tjets this would be an obvious area of concern, but is it not so much of a concern because of the magnets on the XT's? I still seem to be running straight through corners, and I was thinking the pick-up shoes could be the problem. If that is not the issue, then I am fine with leaving them alone. I would attribute it then to me just not slowing down enough when entering a corner.

Some of you might have read in another thread I started about what a great time my family had last weekend on my track, running SG+ cars. My goal is to expose them to these XT's on Labor Day, and hopefully they will have the same fun. I want to give these cars their best chance to impress them, as I fear that since they have been exposed to the faster cars, they will want me to put them back in play (which I will if they request, since it is all about the fun). But I at least want to give these a shot, and it is why I bought 3 more 90 ohm controllers recently.

Thanks for your input everyone.

Jeff the XT's have much less spring tension than a T-Jet, electrically this is compensated by the spring plate being part of the electrical path (ie, the spring is now a shunt as well). Also, I think the overall chassis design coupled with a snap-on body distributes the weight more evenly, helping to keep the springs compressed.


Shoe setup is an art, but when a car is mechanically sound it is the most critical area of tuning. Keep at it, it'll come.

My apologies Jeff. I guess I should have said no restriction needed!
It was a necessary requirement of the AFX's lower ride height and incorporated into the original design. Shortened travel and a softer spring.

Like Gene said shoe tuning is an art form!

Perhaps "bending" is not the right term it's more of a warp or bow that is required. A quality set of medium tweezers and a light touch is all it takes. ;)

Oh stop with the apologies Bill. :)

Believe me, if you and Gene say that I don't need to mess around with rubberbands and/or heat shrink tubing on these particular cars, you can color me happy.

I'll concentrate on getting a good contact patch with the shoes. Be prepared to evaluate some photos to help me better grasp this part.

twolff: Exactly the baby steps I was looking for. I did what you said - removed all the chassis, and got through about half of them last night. Didn't have any that seemed to be flat out duds, and honestly, couldn't tell much difference between any of them. For now, I am considering those all tested good and equal. :-)

I haven't received the silicone tires yet, and I think I will tread lightly on swapping them on (more baby steps). I'm worried about larger diameter tires reducing the magnetic attraction.



Sounds like the overall quality of the X-Traction chassis has improved some since the JL Fast and Furious release era.

Once you try Jack's tires you will not be able to go back. I haven't tried anything that works better on plastic track. They will look more like a sponge tire than a slicone once they start to wear in.

I did find that the white silcones that midshipslotcar on eBay sells are much softer than the stock black tires that come on the X-Tractions.
http://cgi.ebay.com/12-pcs-Org-of-JL-XT-White-Lightning-Silicone-Tires-Sets_W0QQitemZ190135498975QQihZ009QQcategoryZ2619Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
They were also less than half the current price when I bought a batch for my son to try on his AFX chassis (he got all jazzed about the white boots that came on a TycoPro I bought). They work very well on an AFX (non-magnatraction) chassis and wear like iron. BTW: they look like ass; even worse once they get dirty. I've found them nearly impossible to clean. :)

Wow... off to get these things all tried....... see you in a week!!! :lol:

I use the original AFX front ends on all my magnatraction and x-traction cars along with #5 O-ring front tires. And I restrict the pickup shoes on ALL my cars including tyco and super G+. Some not a lot... some a lot... but anything that pushes the car out of the slot is not a good thing.
That is why I use the rubberband trick because I find it much easier to tweak for each individual chassis. Check out the tech tips at www.marioncountyraceway.com for a description of the rubber band trick.
I have never been a great driver, so I have to build a better car to have a chance. Not saying I can, just that I try... ;)

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com

I like the rubber band as an otion (thanks for that tip!) to the heat shrink. The problem I was having when I tried it on my R3 XT's was that the band would get caught up on stuff inside the body. These XT's (only ones I have btw - not sure if all do) have a large plastic thing attached behind the front end of the car. Have no idea what it is for. It's colored like the windows, but isn't exposed to the outside anywhere.

Anyway, maybe if I got real tiny with the rubber band sliver it wouldn't catch, but it is still a tight fit.

Scaf, that's the light bulb holder. Take the body off the chassis and you'll see where you stick the bulb.

How about using little pieces of scotch tape to restrict your shoes. Tape is much thinner than little rubberbands.........A couple loops is all you'll need.

Wow - it's been 8 months since I started this thread, and I am just now getting around to tweaking these cars. They have been sitting in my tackle box since then, save for the short visit into the cornflakes box. :)

Anywhoo, I set up my little production area to restrict the shoe travel with heat-shrink tubing. Even though it was mentioned that the XT's really don't require it, I'm finding it is needed. Previously I had to 'walk' the cars through the corners or they would jump out of the slot. The tubing has helped this out immensly.

One thing I noticed, and which was mentioned in some other thread more recently, are the cracked front tires. Every single front tire on 14 cars I purchased have cracked front tires. A few were split right in half, a few more were split in half by me when I was checking them to see if they were split through-and-through, and others split and flew off the cars while racing. Not sure if they arrived cracked like this, or if they cracked while sitting around.

I went through my bag of Jack's silicone blems, but unfortunetly none were correct size. So, my next course of action is to get replacements for all these front tires. What size tires should I be looking for?

I've got more questions for you guys on these cars (such as how to clean them, which gear is the idler, pinion, etc), but I will search the tuning tips first.

Hey Scaf,

Glad you brought this thread back from the dead. I needed to see some of the things here again to refresh my mind on tune ups. Like the rubberband trick and the shrink wrap to keep the jump down, down, down...

I clean my pancake armatures with a rag and some Mothers Aluminum rim polish.

Bob...zilla

Hi All:

I was at Home Depot the other day and just for kicks I asked the sales person if they had any O-rings. He first took me to the fastner asle and we did find some, however, we then went to the plumbing section.

What we found was a #78 - 7/16"o.d. X 1/4" i.d. X 3/32 O-ring. They come in the little top opening clear boxes with a white and skyblue packing insert. 6 to a pack.

They are thick, however, the work just fine.

Voxxer

Bob,

I'm glad I found this thread too. (Actually, I had it bookmarked, cause I knew there was stuff here I wanted to try, but wasn't ready yet).

I've yet to diassamble one of these buggers to begin the cleaning process. Guess it's time I learn how they go together.

Thanks for the tip on the o-rings Voxxer. I've noted them on my shopping list, and will get some for sure. I still can't believe every tire was cracked on these cars.

I have been using #5 O-rings on the front of Magnatraction and X-traction for some time. The new wide rims can take two O-rings per hub.
The reason I prefer the rubber bands to restrict the pickup shoes is due to the ability to adjust after mounting. You can move them up or down until the exact location is found. But yes, you do have to make them as small slivers to keep from catching on hubs, etc. I also found they are easier to mount with the pickup shoes removed from the chassis.
There was a previous comment regarding using mean green arms in the X-traction. I have found that the aurora armatures have a large collar on the chassis shaft side that is not found on the AW or JL chassis. Therefore there are issues with the shaft clearance through the chassis. I prefer to run the stock arm on the X-tractions.
When you get a new AW or JL, disassemble before ever running them. It appears to me that the china assemblers have greased the face of the comm and motor brushes. They will foul quickly and the car doesn't run well. Clean them both well and oil the chassis correctly before initial break in and they will be much smoother and faster.

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com

I picked up a few of the o-rings with the dimensions voxxer mentioned at my local Ace hardware. $.49 ea - yikes! Hopefully when I check the Depot they have 'em in bulk packaging for less cost. I know, it's not that much $, but it's a little bitty piece of rubber. I was thinking .10 ea.

Their drawer of o-rings didn't use numbers like #78 or #5, but of their selection, these were the only ones that looked suitable for a tire. Maybe some smaller ones for fray tjets also.

Regarding the rubber band Gary, I think it is a worthy solution. I just found the heat shrink tubing was working for me. It's tight enough to serve the purpose (I think), and it can be slid up/down on the shoe if needed, if you shrink it without having an end of the tubing piece overhanging the tip, which creates a stop-point for sliding it down.

Good solutions though, both heat shrink and rubber bands!

Find the thread on AFX Replacement Fronts. You can get a bag of 100 O-Rings for about $2.

Joe

That beats Home Depot. I get o-rings there for $1.97 for a box of 10. Dave.

Find the thread on AFX Replacement Fronts. You can get a bag of 100 O-Rings for about $2.

Thanks for the heads-up Joe. Found the thread. :thumbsup:

Scafremon,

I forget who started that thread but lemme tell ya micyou3 and I bought a bunch of these things... MAN are they awesome. Cheap as all get out too. :) Can't beat that. We actually bought 2 sizes of o-ring fronts and the big ones like you're talking about look & work well on the XT's. I use the smaller o-ring's for cars that look right. I don't put those big ones on too many cars though. The smaller ones rock for racing around my track.

Hey another things concerning tires, and I know it's been mentioned on this thread, weirdjacks tires.... Great stuff. I bought 2 bags and now that I'm just beginning to get into the t-jet side of things I think I'm going to have to probably get another bag of just t-jet types of blems. Nice guy, good product, excellent price. You won't go wrong with him.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Xence

We actually bought 2 sizes of o-ring fronts and the big ones like you're talking about look & work well on the XT's. I use the smaller o-ring's for cars that look right. I don't put those big ones on too many cars though. The smaller ones rock for racing around my track.

Xence,

If you can locate the dimensions of the smaller ones you also bought, please let me know.

Hi All:

While visiting the McMaster site, I was wondering if their is a specific sales person you should go to. If any knows the info, please list. I have talked to several people and they think I'm crazy. Plus what sizes are you getting?

Thanks

Voxxer
www.koinhedz.com

Check out my post in this thread for the size I bought from McMaster Carr.

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=204454