novak has released new larger dia. rotor. So the playing field has another nitch to be addressed
So now we don't have to go to our local machine shop to have a sleeve made. we will be able to get a {quote} tuning rotor at our local hobbyshop or race track

see ya lee

the sky will definately be falling now!! lmao

This isn't good...I'm starting to feel sick.

I do a lot of standing up for Novak and BL racing. This is disappointing to me :(

Easy the sky is not falling.

From the BRL standpoint I will end the discussion before it even gets started.

I was aware this was coming. It WILL NOT be legal for BRL competition. Novak has made this pretty easy to tech so it will not be a problem.

edited

I really can't see how this would that easy to tech, seems to me that the pinion gear would have to be removed.


Well most people can do that in about 2 seconds, so that is pretty easy to tech.

edited

edited

Maybe the CIA will show up in a black helicopter and the 2nd gunmen from the grassy knoll will deliver my special 15.2 mm rotor.

I think you're stretching a bit. Lets be a bit more realistic!

I'm disappointed because I gave them the benfit of the doubt that they weren't planning to do this when it was clear they didn't design the strongest rotor they could have. I was wrong.

As a FYI this will not be the last rotor. The fact that it has a 200C operating temp indicates it is not the strongest Neo material available. The stronger materials are not rated for that high of a temp as far as I know. Last I saw Neo38 was the strongest 200C Neo. They've gotten close to Neo50, so Novak could and probably will offer a stronger rotor yet.

i know I am just joking around. it is like a big circle. once you go around a couple of times it all looks the same.

The new rotors will have a “groove” on the shaft that sticks out that can easily be teched, but not easily removed. If it is removed you should be able to tell.

You can also pull the motor apart and measure the diameter.

Honestly the fear of cheating in the Brushless world is getting a little old. Brushed motors are much easier to manipulate and harder to tech than any Novak brushless motor.

The guys that are on the top level are not knowingly going to cheat because there is to much to loose when they get caught. Those that will try to cheat are probably the same mixers that were doing it with a brushed motor. In most cases they don’t have enough talent to make a difference.


As you can see the R/C world is switching to Brushless and everyone is going to want a piece of the pie. Over the next few months and years you are going to see an onslaught of new Brushless product development from several manufacturers.

Just because you see something new is no reason to through up the red flag and proclaim the death of oval racing. The best that you can hope for is that your favorite series, track, or race promoter is smart enough to develop or follow a sensible rules package that helps control cost and puts some limits in place on all the new development.

Just so you know where I’m coming form as the BRL promoter/owner. I am a die-hard oval racer with almost 20 years in the hobby that wants to see oval racing grow again. My position and contacts in the industry allow me to have a pretty good overview of what’s happening or is going to happen. The rules structure I put in place for the BRL is done with the intent of being in the best interest of my racers. Some will agree with my rules some won’t. Honestly I don’t care either way. Those who like what we are doing will show those that don’t are free to go elsewhere. I simply don’t make enough on this deal for money to be a motivating factor. I’m focused and happy with the path we are on. I think if you ask the guys that attend our events they are happy too. (Well some would like more practice time...LOL) :wave:

:wave: yes Ineed all the time I can get thats why I was caught practicing with the 13.5 guys :thumbsup: The new rotors will have a “groove” on the shaft that sticks out that can easily be teched, but not easily removed. If it is removed you should be able to tell.

You can also pull the motor apart and measure the diameter.

Honestly the fear of cheating in the Brushless world is getting a little old. Brushed motors are much easier to manipulate and harder to tech than any Novak brushless motor.

The guys that are on the top level are not knowingly going to cheat because there is to much to loose when they get caught. Those that will try to cheat are probably the same mixers that were doing it with a brushed motor. In most cases they don’t have enough talent to make a difference.


As you can see the R/C world is switching to Brushless and everyone is going to want a piece of the pie. Over the next few months and years you are going to see an onslaught of new Brushless product development from several manufacturers.

Just because you see something new is no reason to through up the red flag and proclaim the death of oval racing. The best that you can hope for is that your favorite series, track, or race promoter is smart enough to develop or follow a sensible rules package that helps control cost and puts some limits in place on all the new development.

Just so you know where I’m coming form as the BRL promoter/owner. I am a die-hard oval racer with almost 20 years in the hobby that wants to see oval racing grow again. My position and contacts in the industry allow me to have a pretty good overview of what’s happening or is going to happen. The rules structure I put in place for the BRL is done with the intent of being in the best interest of my racers. Some will agree with my rules some won’t. Honestly I don’t care either way. Those who like what we are doing will show those that don’t are free to go elsewhere. I simply don’t make enough on this deal for money to be a motivating factor. I’m focused and happy with the path we are on. I think if you ask the guys that attend our events they are happy too. (Well some would like more practice time...LOL) :wave:

Sonny is there any chance all brushless company would talk around a tabel and get there motors closer together, so you could use other brands. I am very satisfied with novak, but other people that are sponsered or prefer to use products other than novak are left out. flipper

Sonny is there any chance all brushless company would talk around a tabel and get there motors closer together, so you could use other brands. I am very satisfied with novak, but other people that are sponsered or prefer to use products other than novak are left out. flipper

Flipper,

I agree! Not so much for the sponsored guys but so there is a standard set of specs. I do not like what Novak did here. They are opening up a can of worms that could hurt them in the end. Get roar or ARCOR to set some specs like we had with brushed stock motors and then others can get their motors approved. How long will it be before some series or track decides they will only allow Tekin or LRP motors? Then oval racing will be fractured again into little pieces.

Personally, i can afford the motor (or rotor) of the week but it is not good for the hobby.

It is time for a "standard" that all manufacturers can use for design and approval.

Sonny, you are the authority on BL racing and have the respect of all of us, your thoughts?

Peter Coll

let tekin in they have a real brushless motor you cant have a spec motor that has adjustable timing like novak thinks they do!

Flipper,

I agree! Not so much for the sponsored guys but so there is a standard set of specs. I do not like what Novak did here. They are opening up a can of worms that could hurt them in the end. Get roar or ARCOR to set some specs like we had with brushed stock motors and then others can get their motors approved. How long will it be before some series or track decides they will only allow Tekin or LRP motors? Then oval racing will be fractured again into little pieces.

Personally, i can afford the motor (or rotor) of the week but it is not good for the hobby.

It is time for a "standard" that all manufacturers can use for design and approval.

Sonny, you are the authority on BL racing and have the respect of all of us, your thoughts?

Peter Coll

Peter: Specs such as you requested will be finished by mid week and posted, added to the rule book etc. As for allowing other manufactures to submit motors based on these specs, other than NOVAK, would be a serious mistake for the growth of Brushless "oval" racing. Think in the long term and the good of the hobby. Right now NOVAK is coming out with new products, but they are not "aimed" at oval racing. Other forms of racing besides "Oval" are being done and unfortunatley these forms go by ROAR rules, which allows anything that comes down the pike as long as it meets "specs". NOVAK is a business and they have to "keep up". But as brushless grows in oval racing, we do not have to keep up with the latest and greatest. This has been one of the big downfalls of our oval racing hobby, from batteries, motors, chassis, etc. There has to be some "control". This what Sonny and ARCOR are trying to do. I might add that we also have the "support" of NOVAK in this indeaver, but they cannot stop advancing and become stagant for the sake of oval racing. We are not the only form of racing in this world. To quote Sonny: "Some will agree with my rules some won’t. Honestly I don’t care either way."

JB,

Thank you for your reply. I respectfully disagree however this has little to no bearing on me. I will buy whatever goes fast and is allowed by whatever track, series or event I choose to run. If "X" companies speed control has an advantage and is allowed at an event I want to attend, I will buy one and not think twice. I am not sure others will do the same. They may choose to stay away.

ARCOR has been very good for the hobby and I know you have a broader view than I.

At first I was concerned about having only one manufacture being novak, but when you think about it, it is the same as stock. Most stock races are a hand out motore or limit you to one motor. I like the one motor rule. Especially being that I run at a dozen tracks it keeps me from having a bunch of diffrent motors that run better at certain tracks.

PS I think we spend to much time racing on hobbytalk and not enough time at the track. I am included in that.

Joe DiGirolamo

JB,

Thank you for your reply. I respectfully disagree however this has little to no bearing on me. I will buy whatever goes fast and is allowed by whatever track, series or event I choose to run. If "X" companies speed control has an advantage and is allowed at an event I want to attend, I will buy one and not think twice. I am not sure others will do the same. They may choose to stay away.

ARCOR has been very good for the hobby and I know you have a broader view than I.

Al: Don't be totally confused by the 1 manufacture rule. ARCOR will only limit the speed controls to the 21.5 (COT Class) and the 4300 Spec Truck class, to a specific speed control, the old NOVAK SS - SS+ and the new XBR. All the other classes will be open to "any manufactured" speed control.

When you see the final rules for the NiHm Brushless and the Lipo Brushless, you will find that, other than the two mentioned classes above, you can run in any of the other classes, with only a motor change. :thumbsup:

One manufacture will mean that only Novak motors and only Orion Lipos will be allowed. If tracks want to play motor and battery games, that is their decison. But I think they will find less "dead" merchandise in the showcasse, if they stick to one motor, one battery.

Al: But I think they will find less "dead" merchandise in the showcasse, if they stick to one motor, one battery.

This is very true!

Great Post Sonny! Focar Will Not Allow The New Rotor As Well. Save Your $$$$

Was anyone really under the assumption that with new technology there wouldnt be new products introduced or designed along the way ? ........if that were true we'd still be running macubuchi motors with wiper arm speed controls in our tamiya hornets.

Look each improvement or advancement in technology whether it be brushed or brushed needs to be implemented by each sanctioning body, race track or club so as to be introduced in a way not to make everyone have to run out and buy the latest thing if what they are using now is working for their series or track.

Anyone thinking brushless would never change or have something new come along is just kidding themselves ....... brushed racing technology never stayed stagnant, why should brushless ?

Easy the sky is not falling.

From the BRL standpoint I will end the discussion before it even gets started.

I was aware this was coming. It WILL NOT be legal for BRL competition. Novak has made this pretty easy to tech so it will not be a problem.

Sounds good Sonny!!

Just keep everything the way it was for the first season. It didnt break.....so why fix it?

CANT WAIT FOR THE FIRST BRL RACE OF THE YEAR!! (Michigan?)

Al: Don't be totally confused by the 1 manufacture rule. ARCOR will only limit the speed controls to the 21.5 (COT Class) and the 4300 Spec Truck class, to a specific speed control, the old NOVAK SS - SS+ and the new XBR. All the other classes will be open to "any manufactured" speed control.

When you see the final rules for the NiHm Brushless and the Lipo Brushless, you will find that, other than the two mentioned classes above, you can run in any of the other classes, with only a motor change. :thumbsup:

One manufacture will mean that only Novak motors and only Orion Lipos will be allowed. If tracks want to play motor and battery games, that is their decison. But I think they will find less "dead" merchandise in the showcasse, if they stick to one motor, one battery.

So when will the 21.5 motor be released?

Thanks Sonny, JB, and Katfish. If the new rotors had been allowed it could have been the start of the brushless decline. The brushless motor has been a great step forward for Oval racing because of it's long life and simplicity, all the motors seem to be about the same. It has been a hugh success, please don't allow that to change.

That is fine but what the h@#% is next bi rotors and tri rotors. Heven help you guys. For me just pass the 30% nirto.

Ben Giles
Qusac10@aol.com

how dare you ruin our chat with the N word! errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

how dare you ruin our chat with the N word! errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr



NITRO*
NITRO*
NITRO*
NITRO*

* This was intended towards the smelly, ugly lookin, katfish guy only!

reminds me of a southpark episode!wheel of fortune.

reminds me of a southpark episode!wheel of fortune.

I will take a G, R, N, and an E.

The question is........People who annoy you......

HAHAHAHA... Great Episode.

Sounds good Sonny!!

CANT WAIT FOR THE FIRST BRL RACE OF THE YEAR!! (Michigan?)

Think a little farther South for Race 1. (No Katfish not that far....yet)

Schedule should be posted in the next 2 weeks.

dooo beeee dooo beeee doooooo

Why are we calling this the "Oversized Sintered Rotor"? It looks like it is around the same size an the original bonded rotors. Shouldn't we be calling the first sintered rotor the "Undersize Sintered Rotor"?

Here is a response Steve Weiss (Novak) posted to another forum:

Just wanted to drop in here to address some people's concerns/questions:

Implications for spec class racing.

We realize that there are MANY 13.5 and 10.5 motors out there being used in various spec classes with the original sintered rotor.

With this in mind we added a visible groove to the 13.0 mm rotor shaft so that it could be easily identified as DIFFERENT from the stock sintered rotor that is currently being shipped in all the Velociti and the Pro series SS motors.

This way if your series/track has a rule, you can rest assure that everyone in your class is running the correct (stock sintered) rotor with a simple look at the motor's exterior.

Gearing Changes

In touring car applications we have found it necessary to gear the car up approximately 10% from where we were with the standard sintered rotor.

This means that if I was running a 19/116 in my xray 007 with six cells, I would now run 21 or 22/116. So most of the time this means 2-3 teeth up with 64 pitch gears.

With 5 cells you will need to gear up another 2-3 teeth from this.

Feel changes:

I like this rotor because of how it seems to add better driving consistancy not only through accelleration out of the corners but almost more importantly when decellerating and slowing down into corners.

The brakes feel more consistant from low to high speed and I feel that they are overall stronger as well.

Also, the motor power/braking seems to stay more consistant to me throughout a hard run as well.

Great Post Sonny! Focar Will Not Allow The New Rotor As Well. Save Your $$$$Katfish- Thanks for doing that! I was wondering what FOCARS was going to do with this new development. We'll do the same here @ HW.
-George

very cool george! if it costs us money it's bad! lol

Great to see the promoters stick together and make the traveling racers lives less hectic , not to mention that ONE rules package across the board is good for everyone.

The BRL (Sonny Brown) has really pumped new life into oval,,, carpet and dirt.

Thanks



Wolfman

...I'm personally only opposed to the NEW rotor because of the confusion it would cause in the OVAL world.

I kind of think it would work like the old MOD motors with a FULL wind (or PACKED wind)

Less RPM...and a different power curve.

To me, the smaller arm will wind like a 6x1 as far as RPM goes, and the lower the turn of the wind (ie: 10.5, 17.5, etc...) I'd bet we see less of a change.

Now for the SUPER Hot motors like the 3.5's, I'd bet the larger diam. rotor will tame those motors down a little.

If all that falls true, the larger rotor WOULD put out a higher and wider POWER band...yet actually make the motor easier to drive off the corner.

ANY Experts agree or disagree?

Suppose Novak had come out with the larger diameter rotor first (what they call the "tuning rotor") and the smaller diameter rotor 6 months later?

Would the smaller one be declared illegal (because it was different) by all the organizations that now declare the bigger one to be illegal? Or would the bigger one not have been approved to begin with? Any why?

Let's add or remove laminations to stack of a brushed motor vs the 2 different rotors...big deal. As long you can tech it w/o taking the motor out its fine by me.

It would be nice to see Novak take the tech issue a little farther. I would like to see a stamped number to tech the different motor w/o having to take apart or use a meter on. I would like to see the winds stamped on the solder tab side of the motor to id it quickly. The colored timming rings are a great start. I have seen cars sneak through tech with a 5800(8.5) and fool the meter to read 4300(10.5) numbers. It isn't hard to do. The only way to really get a true reading is to take out the motor and rotor and unsolder it.

Does anyone know the diameter of the sintered rotor in mm? I measured my stock (black) rotor and the upgrade (gray) rotor and they both measure 14 mm. If the new one is oversized, (13mm) what size is the sintered one?

It says on Novak's website. I seem to remember 12.2mm, but you'd have to look to know for sure.

Does anyone know the diameter of the sintered rotor in mm? I measured my stock (black) rotor and the upgrade (gray) rotor and they both measure 14 mm. If the new one is oversized, (13mm) what size is the sintered one?

The person who thinks the new rotors are "oversized" is the one who started these threads..... ;)

It says on Novak's website. I seem to remember 12.2mm, but you'd have to look to know for sure.
So if the original one is 12.2 and the newest one is 13 MM, that leaves room for a 13.5MM rotor and a 14MM rotor.

If the 13MM one is called oversized, What will the 13.5 and 14MM ones be called?

So if the original one is 12.2 and the newest one is 13 MM, that leaves room for a 13.5MM rotor and a 14MM rotor.

If the 13MM one is called oversized, What will the 13.5 and 14MM ones be called?

Look at the post above yours. Novak didn't name it the oversized sintered rotor. The person who started this thread dubbed it that.

to answer the legality issues with series...

the current rotors work well in oval cars ...because the new 13mm rotor will be a hop up part and not work it's way into production 10.5 and 13.5 motors there is no need to make everyone run out and buy one

13 mm rotor is a hop up part
13mm rotor will not come stock in any 105 and 13.5 motors
why spend money we do't have to?

Look at the post above yours. Novak didn't name it the oversized sintered rotor. The person who started this thread dubbed it that.
I know that. I was wondering what that person would call the 13.5 and 14MM rotors.

13 mm rotor is a hop up part
13mm rotor will not come stock in any 105 and 13.5 motors
Not yet. But there was a time when the original sintered rotor did not come in a 10.5/13.5 either.

With all the changes we have seen recently with brushless motors, who is to say that this can't happen at some time in the future?

What does the new rotor do as far as performance?