hey all:Got two brushless oval questions for y'all.First will we see at any point brushless used in 1/12th oval classes why or why not?Second i've read that the novak 10.5 is the replacement for the novak 4300 brushless motor and if this is true will brushless rules be changed to allow the newer novak 10.5 brushless motor?Thanks for the info :)

Yes, it can and will be used in 12th scale. The only hinderance is less space for the speedo. There just simply isn't much 12th scale oval racing, so change has been slower there.

The 4300 and the 10.5 are the same thing. They just started calling the 4300 the 10.5 so the name would fall in line with what they call all the other motors, 3.5, 4.5 5.5....13.5 etc.

Yes, it can and will be used in 12th scale. The only hinderance is less space for the speedo. There just simply isn't much 12th scale oval racing, so change has been slower there.

The 4300 and the 10.5 are the same thing. They just started calling the 4300 the 10.5 so the name would fall in line with what they call all the other motors, 3.5, 4.5 5.5....13.5 etc.

If you are running 4 cell, we offer two versions of the 4 cell GTB---minus the heat sink and fan. Easier to mount in a 12th scale car.

Also, two 10.5T version motors---SS Pro (sintered) and Extreme Sport (bonded).

I love this stuff, GREAT JOB NOVAK! Now just reinvent the battery and racing will be perfect.

The battery has been reinvented.......... it is called "LIPO". :)

true but I am even more interested in those a123 lith-ion cells

Some observations I have seen with BL:

Pro's:
Cheaper - meaning you dont need a bunch of motors like Brushed racing. (although I think people including myself put too much emphases and bought too many motors when racing brushed motors). Also, gone are the days of com lathes and dyno's. I guess there will be some cost with having multiple rotors but still probably overall cheaper than brushed racing.

Larger class sizes (BL-only races) - 13.5, 10.5 and possibly mod - covers the whole gammet. Spec and stock racers have 13.5, upper tier stock and 19T guys have 10.5 and mod guys have Open BL or even 10.5 as a 2nd class which is pretty quick.

Con's
Manuf Monopoly - Novak, not to say this is a bad thing, cause I like to take options away for cost reasons, but some will argue that monopolies are bad leaving one manuf to dictate. What about Tekin, LRP etc ?? If you open it up, it's going to be the motor of the month club. Tekin's will be quicker than Novak, so Novak will have to come out with their 10.5 v2. Then LRP will release their 10.5 X, then Tekin comes out with their Outlow 10.5.....so on and so on.

Lower class counts - If brushed and BL continue to co-exist, you will have 80 cars at each big event (minus the birds) with 10 cars in each class. Freddies is a great example. Awesome race, Nearly 80 cars for a summer race turnout is pretty good in my eyes, but with 10 or so classes only 2 classes (stock and 10.5) had B mains. People invest way too much money to travel to run against 9 other guys.

Honestly I dont know what the answer is for Oval. All I know is good turn-outs is what drives the small segment of the hobby we have. So that should be the ultimate goal. Keep costs down so people can enter and the hobby and have some fun.

There is that common misconception again, that 13.5 = stock brushed motors. NO way, in actual races everyone pretty much agrees that 13.5 is 2-3 laps (min.) quicker than stock brushed class cars. Stock still needs a slower motor. Hopefully the just released 17.5 will be a true replacement for the stock brushed motors... waiting for time to see.

Lower class counts - If brushed and BL continue to co-exist, you will have 80 cars at each big event (minus the birds) with 10 cars in each class. Freddies is a great example. Awesome race, Nearly 80 cars for a summer race turnout is pretty good in my eyes, but with 10 or so classes only 2 classes (stock and 10.5) had B mains. People invest way too much money to travel to run against 9 other guys.


E you just need to come to a few BRL events this season. Last winter we averaged 35 in 13.5 class and 40+ in 4300. I think the season high was 53 in one class at Vinton.

I still think we are deep in transition... It is a slow painfull process. When I go to Easley and see Johnny Broyles testing 10.5 it is obvious the winds of change are blowing but it would be nice if we were all on the same page. I look at it like I am paying my fair share to help build the new stronger oval racing for the future... It appeaars to be paying off with bigger 10.5 turn-outs

joe retherford

I may be in a very small minority, but one of the things we're working on is trying to find combos that can RUN TOGETHER (Unlike the STOCK/13.5 deal that DOESN'T work)

This may only be a transitional thing, but to have the ability to have both Brushed and Brushless Co-Exist IMHO gives a little bit of comfort to some. (While driving others crazy I know)

Add to that the Battery Deal - and the fact that I'm hearing every day MORE and MORE guys 'wanting' to go to the LIPOs...that adds ONE more thing to the mix.

Right now we have a combo that can allow

4 cell/ 10.5's to co-exist with 3200 LIPO's and 17.5's. IF a 19t guy wants to run WITH them - he could (but he'd be slightly OUTGUNNED)

On that note - if a track has a 13.5 class going - the 19t motor is actually closer to the speeds of that B/L motor.

NOVAK is currently working on a NEW motor that should run very very close to current STOCK 4 cell Speeds w/ the LIPO packs, if that does pan out the way we're hoping...one more alternative could be

4 cell STOCK
4 cell 17.5 B/L
LIPO - NEW MOTOR

All co-existing together (at least at CLUB LEVEL events) I don't think I'd want to mix them at BIG EVENTS just because of the TECH issues~

By the middle of '08, I'm almost banking we'll see 85% of ALL oval racing done w/ B/L motors...and hopefully we'll actually have something that runs STOCK type speeds that DOESN'T require a NATIONAL CHAMPION CALIBER driver to wheel them.

We got along with one motor mfg for how many years with brushed stock and mod motors. What's the difference with Novak only. Epic produced most of the types of motors everybody wanted to race in stock or mod. The same deal now with batteries IB has the market now.

..I agree and laugh when I hear guys complain about only being able to run ONE motor MFG.

Since I first started racing some 22 years ago - there has really only been 2 motors that really counted most of that time.

YOKOMO and EPIC

Yeah, there's been a few others (AYK, AIR SUPPLY, etc) but 99.2% or so has been from EPIC and YOKOMO and of that, I'd bet EPIC has been 85% of the 99.2%

E you just need to come to a few BRL events this season. Last winter we averaged 35 in 13.5 class and 40+ in 4300. I think the season high was 53 in one class at Vinton.

Sonny, I agree. I guess I should have edited my post to say, the Birds and BRL events. But the biggest races for most people in the count in the non-BL series area are still ARCOR and ROAR events. Having both BL and Brushed is killing class counts no matter how you shake a stick at it.

80-100 cars in oval is great nowadays. Even with the minimum of 6 classes (Stock, 19T and Mod, 13.5, 10.5 and Mod BL) that is 13-17 cars per class which isnt that many. Now with only 3 classes, class counts would become more respectible. I'm not bashing BL, I guess I am just saying oval needs to pick one or the other (Brushed or BL).

There is that common misconception again, that 13.5 = stock brushed motors. NO way, in actual races everyone pretty much agrees that 13.5 is 2-3 laps (min.) quicker than stock brushed class cars. Stock still needs a slower motor. Hopefully the just released 17.5 will be a true replacement for the stock brushed motors... waiting for time to see.

Very true, I just threw 13.5 out there for the sake of arguement, 17.5, 20.5 whatever it maybe somebody, probably Novak will create a slower motor equivalent to stock speeds.

My point is keep it simple, if oval is going to migrate to BL motors exclusively dont kill oval again with 14 classes.

For club racing do a spec class, 17.5, 10.5 Open BL
For Big events do 17.5, 10.5 and Open BL, that way it makes it worth traveling again. All classes will have 30+ cars each hopefully making it a good race.

One of my buddies recently sold out and his biggest reason was that he was sick of spending $600-$1000 for a racing trip to run against the same 10-20 guys from around the country. I could never make the snowbirds due to my work schedule so it was the same thing for me towards the end. I tried to make all ARCOR and ROAR events and I could name approx 90% of the guys that would be there before I even went.

To solve the motor and battery of the week I would propose a max wattage produced by motor and a max WattHour capacity for the batteries.

I would propose a 24Kwh limit on battery packs and a 100W limit on all motors for stock. Modified, should be anything goes (to a point)

For motors, the wattage must be rated for the battery pack combo.

So a 3000MAH 7.4 lipo with 17.5T would be rated the same as a 13.5T with 4200 4.8 NiMh
and some other things may be considered, if one set-up seems faster, then sandbagging with extra weight could help.

Motor Battery of the week????????????? My speed controls are over a year old and my motors except my 13.5 are 2 years old, batts I used last fall, where is this motor and battery of the week track at?

I have been running the same motor for 4 cell for 3 years!! My six cell mod car is only 2 years old. The 4200's have been the same for about 1 year now. You have to replace them about every 2 months to beat the hot shoes. Club racing is about 2 or 3 times per year for batteries.

To solve the motor and battery of the week I would propose a max wattage produced by motor and a max WattHour capacity for the batteries.

I would propose a 24Kwh limit on battery packs and a 100W limit on all motors for stock. Modified, should be anything goes (to a point)

For motors, the wattage must be rated for the battery pack combo.

So a 3000MAH 7.4 lipo with 17.5T would be rated the same as a 13.5T with 4200 4.8 NiMh
and some other things may be considered, if one set-up seems faster, then sandbagging with extra weight could help.


Dude you just need to step away form the keyboard. With every post you prove that you have absolutely no freaking clue.

Couldn't have said it better myself!!!http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/images/icons/icon10.gif