Hi,

I know this may have been discussed but I have some questions to Moebius and anyone else here.

due to the size of the Seaview model, will this make any difference in what colors to choose for the hull and underside? Will a large model require a darker or lighter shade?

Moebius, will your instructions contain color references?

tia

Probably the best thing you can do is look at episodes of the series on DVD and pay attention to the surface shots. The Seaview miniatures, especially the 8-foot model, were also heavily shaded to bring out the contours in the underwater photography, so airbrushed darker gray around the sonar domes and in the channels above the flange that runs down the length of each side of the ship as well as around the engines and forward manta fins is in order. The underside is off white or a very very light gray. The sub was never painted blue to my knowledge, that look was always just an artifact of the underwater photography and color processing.

Once again, and for what it's worth...

Some of you may be familiar with Paul Lubliner’s work. He produced the Seaview model I built, and is generally ragarded as the world’s foremost expert on the submarine Seaview in all its various incarnations. A few months ago he forwarded the following in response to my query re: the sub's paint scheme...

Hi, Rob.

For all of the 8 window miniatures, refer to a good ORIGINAL copy of the Feb '65 T.V. Guide photos. The title shot with David Hedison holding the 4 footer out of the water mimicking the emergency surfacing of the feature's opening is a very accurate color rendering. Yes, the underside of the feature and 1st season Seaviews was a light gray-green! The top side was a dead ringer for a federal standard color # FS 36118 (no doubt what they used on the miniatures when first built,) a medium to slightly dark gray with a hint of blue. I have color chips of these colors. VERY close colors may be found in the Tamiya spray can range, colors #'s: AS 10 (RAF Ocean Grey) for top surfaces and I believe it is AS 16 for the underside (don't have a can on hand, but I think that's the number.) but somewhat lacking that hint of green.

The Flying Sub versions are another matter. I have seen all of the miniatures or the surviving pieces. The "Hero" 8 footer nose you know I molded. The top surfaces may best be described as a mired (mucky!!!) grey/green brown or yeccch as MAD Magazine would describe it to be accurate. This was airbrushed along the side nose fins and "chines" (side keels) in a darker shade of muck. The underside was a neutral light grey. Period. The 17 footer's top surfaces were essentially the same base color as the 8 footer but devoid of shading. The underside, the same light neutral grey. I have photos of all and can prove what I am saying. Those who claim the underside was white don't know what they’re talking about.

There you have it, hope I have been of some assistance.

Regards.

Paul

My mantra in these matters is always "choose whatever paint scheme looks good to you," but if screen accuracy is something you're striving for you might want to check out the shades Paul references above.

I used the Tamiya AS 10 "RAF Ocean Grey" and was so pleased by the results, that I am slowly but surely repainting my Seaview "fleet" with that color. I also used Testor's "Ghost Grey" for the lower hull.

I tend to prefer the "paint it so it looks like the sub you saw on TV" approach instead of the "paint it like the filming model" approach.

Huzz

If the choice is between Mad Magazine Yecch and TV screen blue I'd be inclined to go with the latter. :)

I posted Paul's comments simply so those interested in this sort of thing would have a frame of reference. This is clearly one of those whatever floats your boat situations.

For my various Seaview build ups, I have found that The BEST colors for the Seaview(2nd season on) Is "Walmart" brand Grey Primer for the whole upper hull and "Model Master camoflage grey" for the bottom. To my eyes, This seems to be the best combo of colors. Yes the Walmart brand is a cheap rattle can brand, But looks perfect.

Regards,
Beatlepaul

Years ago, I bought a painted casting of the 8.5-ft Seaview's bow from Paul Lubliner, and I've also seen the original bow. I agree with Paul's description of the dark gray topside color as "yeccch" - perhaps with a touch of "bleccch." I've seen color photos of the 17-footer, while it was hanging from the ceiling at the Planes of Fame & Cars of the Stars museum in 1977, and the topside was painted the same dark gray color that Paul described.

On the other hand, I've been making screen caps from the 'Voyage' DVDs, and up through the first half of the 3rd season, it seems that both the 8.5 and 17-foot Flying Sub versions sported a different topside color scheme: the upper hull appears to be a medium gray, with darker gray trim on the sail hatches, along the ballast slots, on the missile hatches & the raised spine between them, and on the anti-skid walkways on the sail planes.

The models were evidently repainted numerous times over the years. On Paul's casting, I can make out the paint buildup on the hull, where they didn't bother to remove the upper deck before painting. The question is, when did the 2-tone gray paint scheme change to the overall dark gray color? Was it during the late 3rd or 4th season, or after the series ended? Clearly, more research is needed.

At his website, Phil Broad has b&w photos of the 17-footer sitting on a pair of saw horses at the Cars of the Stars museum, and the model doesn't appear to be as dark as in the color photos of the model when it was hanging from the ceiling. I realize that I'm comparing apples and oranges, so perhaps Phil could post his thoughts re. the color of the sub when he saw it in the 70s.

Gary

It could be my eyes, but the darker gray on the sail hatches,missile hatches, etc., appear to me to be blue gray to me.

There is detail picked out on the sail, Upper deck(the hatches and Missile hatches). Also you guys are correct in saying the "stripe", if you will, running the length of the ballest vents is also a bluish grey. I actually saw the 17'3" Sub in person when it was hanging from the ceiling in planet Hollywood. Now this was after it was restored by Dave Merriman. So my guess is that Dave is the guy to ask about the Seaview's actual color. I believe he had it in his possesion for some time. But the Basic hull color match up to me is the Walmart Grey primer.


Regards,
Beatlepaul

I actually saw the 17'3" Sub in person when it was hanging from the ceiling in planet Hollywood. Now this was after it was restored by Dave Merriman. So my guess is that Dave is the guy to ask about the Seaview's actual color.

That's where I started. Dave refered me to Paul. To quote Merriman, "When it comes to the Seaview, Paul's pretty much the man."

Trying to arrive at a precise color match from photo reference is a bit of a fool’s errand IMHO -- especially if the "color" in question happens to be grey.

The pix below were taken by the same camera, and depict the same model under different lighting conditions. Which one, if any, appears to your eye be the closest match?

Short of gleaning a specific color/shade reference from a reliable source, any painting scheme one chooses is apt to be highly subjective. There are too many variables for it to be otherwise.

Carson, that is, without a doubt A BEAUTIFULL MODEL! And I agree about Paul Lubliner. I was really hopeing he would eventually release his Kit.


High Regards,
Beatlepaul

Yeah, I don't think the movie version has ever been better captured...love those control surfaces on the forward fins!

A thing of beauty, Carson!

Jeezum crow, Carson! No WONDER I'm so obsessed with that ship!!!

Was Mr. Lubliner involved in the development of the Moebius Seaview kit?

Thanks for the compliments guys, but most of the credit goes to Lubliner. He really did an outstanding job on this kit. I just wish I'd purchased a few dozen more when I had the chance.

Was Mr. Lubliner involved in the development of the Moebius Seaview kit?

No.

As most of you know, Lubliner has been trying for years to get his own Seaview replica(s) to market, but for various reasons has been unable to do so. Time will tell if the Moebius model can fill the void. From the hints Jeff Bond and other "in the know" sources have dropped it sounds like it's gonna be a pretty sweet kit. Fond as I am of the original eight-windowed sub I'd jump at the chance to own a well executed kit of the Flying Sub version.

Don't know that this'll make much of a difference to the colors discussion or not, but noticed yesterday (or was it early last night?) that there's a link to the ChrisW artwork for the Seaview on the Moebius site: http://www.moebiusmodels.com/the_seaview.html

Hi Gary,

About my photos, which you mention in post #8, the model was displayed in a simulated "undersea grotto" type of setting and was therefore quite dark. The model was very difficult to see at all, being in an area of deep shadows, so only the high speed film in the camera was able to capture the images (the "minds eye" was not). It seems to me that the model was in overall grey upper surfaces but there was no way to judge the color of the underside unfortunately. I would build my model, if based on the 17 footer, with the medium grey upper surfaces and ghost grey undersides as mentioned here by others. But, as Carson points out, the builder should go with what looks right to them, there is no "correct" answer.

I fondly remember painting my Aurora Seaview a really bright electric blue when I was seven years old. We had a black and white TV in them thar days!

Huzz

Chris's painting is Beautiful!! I know this is going to be an AWESOME kit, and the art makes me want it NOW!!

The Science fiction museum has a very large Seaview on display. It is listed as the filming model used for surface shots from the TV show. It is in need of a restoration. For what its worth it looks to be blue/grey on the top and cream on the bottom.

That would be the seventeen footer purchased by Paul Allen a few years ago from Planet Hollywood via Profiles in History. Dave Merriman restored it in the late 80's, but it is indeed in desperate need of another makeover.

I'll be in Seattle week after next and I'm DETERMINED to get pix.

Good luck! I really want to see what other stuff is up there as I've only kind of heard secondhand what miniatures have been bought for display in the museum.

I assume Allen purchased the hero Proteus last year, but so far as I know it has yet to go on display in his museum. I spoke to Greg Jein about this recently, and he still doesn't know if Allen was the buyer or not.

One way or another I will return with shots of the big Seaview.

Don't know that this'll make much of a difference to the colors discussion or not, but noticed yesterday (or was it early last night?) that there's a link to the ChrisW artwork for the Seaview on the Moebius site: http://www.moebiusmodels.com/the_seaview.html

The front looks weird. Too big or something. FS1 is dead on though.

I was recently in Seattle and saw the 17-footer. It is suspended in the upper level of the museum and is lit with blue floods - causing it to appear a deep blue in color. Dave Merriman stated that the color that he painted the upper hull during the restoration was Dupont 131s grey primer and the underside was painted white.

Rob - if you are planning to take photos, use a small camera and tuck it into a pocket or fanny pack to keep it out of sight while you are entering the exhibit area.

Weekdays during business hours are best, for there are fewer patrons and quite often the upper levels are virtually empty. A security person will stroll through about every ten to fifteen minutes. If you are observant, you can see them coming.

Also, do not use flash. That will draw attention very quickly and you will be duly set upon by security. Hold still and shoot with existing light. Even at my advanced age, I can still hold my composure long enough to get a fairly decent shot, so I know it's possible!

The Star Trek models and costumes, as well as the Star Wars items that are part of the special exhibit are in the same area. The Klingon ship is not far from the Seaview.

This all sounds a bit sneaky. But, it is necessary if you truly desire photos of the exhibits to justify your trip. It's no fun to travel nearly 1200 miles and not be able to take pictures.

Good luck.

You guys know about these pix ?

http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/html_lib/voyage-props/index2.html

Ron

That would be the seventeen footer purchased by Paul Allen a few years ago from Planet Hollywood via Profiles in History. Dave Merriman restored it in the late 80's, but it is indeed in desperate need of another makeover.

I'll be in Seattle week after next and I'm DETERMINED to get pix.


Good luck, I tried but it is mounted up high and the lighting is low. That plus the fact that it is HUGE make it very hard to get a good photo. Here is the best photo I could get. The first is raw, the next is touched up with iPhoto.

I've posted the link in another thread, but if anyone is cares here is a link to some Sci-Fi museum photos I took.

http://home.comcast.net/~alterio/

The Vanderpool site is one of my faves. Robert has assembled a truly impressive collection.

This all sounds a bit sneaky. But, it is necessary if you truly desire photos of the exhibits to justify your trip. It's no fun to travel nearly 1200 miles and not be able to take pictures.

I'm shocked... shocked by the suggestion that I would stoop to taking photos without permission...

Once again, and for what it's worth...

Some of you may be familiar with Paul Lubliner’s work. He produced the Seaview model I built, and is generally ragarded as the world’s foremost expert on the submarine Seaview in all its various incarnations. A few months ago he forwarded the following in response to my query re: the sub's paint scheme...

Great info from Paul, Rob! Thanks for posting that! :thumbsup:

The front looks weird. Too big or something. FS1 is dead on though.[IMG-LEFT]http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=43971&stc=1[/IMG-LEFT]



Does this help?

One way or another I will return with shots of the big Seaview.

Rob, if you decide to accept this mission, if you are caught or killed, we don't know you! :p

Somewhere, I have film photos of the large Seaview model from the old Planet Hollywood display when it was just sitting on sawhorses. I should dig those out and scan them.

Have your camera as "pre-set" as possible to minimize fiddling with the controls. Practice using it in low light to learn how it will behave. And, take a second memory card. You can install it after you get your pics and hide the other one in your sock. So, if you do get noticed, you can hand over the blank card from your camera but keep your pics.

Huzz

I used intermediate blue straight from the spray can on my PL movie versionSeaview. I used white mixed with a little intermediate blue for the underside. I wanted that shiny darker grey blue look the sub had when we first see it breaching in the arctic.

I'm under no illuisions about the quality of the Seaview pix I plan to take. Given the existing lighting condidtions they will, in all likelihood, suck.

I just like the idea of violating the museum's irritating No Photos policy.

The front looks weird. Too big or something. FS1 is dead on though.

Much as I like Chris' rendering, it does remind me why I prefer the lines of the eight-windowed Seaview over those of the Flying Sub version. The former is so much sleeker and more graceful looking.

Try not to hum the Mission Impossible theme as you go through the turnstiles.

Huzz

That'll make the "training" you got watching all those old spy movies come in handy! ;)

I just like the idea of violating the museum's irritating No Photos policy.

Whatever you do, don't post your plans on a public forum! :eek:

You can adjust the camera for low light photo's by going into the menu and raising the light it captures. It's called exposure compensation.

Here are a couple pretty good color shots from the auction catalog. http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/RonH_photos/Auc17_555.jpg