NOVAK is working on a slower motor to be run with LIPO batteries. IF they come out with a new motor that ran like a "spec" motor brushless, ie. slower, would The BRL start a class for it? Thanks Ralf

NOVAK is working on a slower motor to be run with LIPO batteries. IF they come out with a new motor that ran like a "spec" motor brushless, ie. slower, would The BRL start a class for it? Thanks Ralf

I remember Sonny addressing a similar question or topic awhile back. I couldn't find the post to quote, but I'll paraphrase as i remember it.

Next year the BRL will have satellite State series races. I believe Sonny said he was open to having a beginner class at those races, but not for the national races. The idea being that beginners ought to be learning at their local tracks and supporting them.

My opinion on this topic in general is that we should not add any more classes to the national events. The racing is best with only a couple classes. Where the new slower motors ought to fit in are in the local spec classes that practically every track has their own variation of.

I think that there are some of us that want to run brushless but the 13.5 is a little fast to start up with, especially if you have just run spec or stock, and I WILL NOT go back to brushed motors, I'll quit first. Also would keep some of the slower guys out of the way of the better drivers in 13.5. IMO Ralf

I hear what you're saying and I don't disagree really, I just don't want to split up the classes at the series races.

Could bring in more racers that are staying away from the 13.5 as being too fast for beginers, or people who just can't race at that speed. IMO Ralf

Most of the guys that fall into the categories you mentioned are not that into traveling. They typically won't go 60 miles from the home track to race let alone 400. I'm not saying that what you said doesn't apply to someone, but I don't know of any around here.

Most of the tracks do run under someones established rules, and the tracks I know of follow the BRL rules for brushless. Just wondered if the BRL was looking to attract new racers also. Ralf

RALF the answer would be yes we are looking to attract new racers. That’s one of the main goals behind the BRL. It’s impossible to make everything happen overnight but I think you will see over the next year we will be expanding our efforts outside of the R/C world to bring new blood into the hobby and more importantly back to the local tracks.

While some choose to debate entry level motor formulas on-line they fail to realize it really does nothing to bring new racers into the hobby because they don’t read R/C message boards anyway. Usually it just sucks existing racers into yet another class. My goal is not to split up existing classes but to help them grow. When we add new classes it will be thought out in a way to attract former racers back to and/or bring new racer into the hobby.

As far as a slower motor yes we are working on a rules package for novice/rookie racers. As Pat said I feel the best pace for these racers is at the local tracks where they can get more track time and probably more support then at a National event. Once they have a reasonable level of car control the 13.5 class is a pretty good entry point if they wish to attend a National event.

While some choose to debate entry level motor formulas on-line they fail to realize it really does nothing to bring new racers into the hobby because they don’t read R/C message boards anyway. Usually it just sucks existing racers into yet another class. My goal is not to split up existing classes but to help them grow.

And one of the cool things about the BRL is they are ONLY 'brushless classes', so unlike a lot of other clubs, tracks, organizations, etc. They don't have to worry about trying to kill one class and/or merge in a NEW product for a smooth crossover.

I'm thankful for having these boards to share ideas...get input...opinions...comments (both positive and negative), having the insight of guys like Sonny, along with input from MFG's. makes for a lot of open communication in my mind...

Sonny, Do you have an idea yet on the age break off for the Truck class ? Just checking.........

right on the $ Sonny :thumbsup:

Sonny, Do you have an idea yet on the age break off for the Truck class ? Just checking.........

I think it should be 25! ;)

Sonny, Do you have an idea yet on the age break off for the Truck class ? Just checking......... I think you should have to show your AARP Card !!!! Ralf

I think it should be 50. after all 50 is the new 40

I think it should be 50. after all 50 is the new 40 Yeah, But 60 is like the new 50! Ralf

I think you should have to show your AARP Card !!!! Ralf


The funny thing about that is the people at AARP actually sent me the card and signup offer about 2 months ago. It said now that I'm 50 i should enjoy the benfits etc of AARP!

By the way I'm 26!!!!!

Sonny, Do you have an idea yet on the age break off for the Truck class ? Just checking.........



I’ve not made the final decision on the minimum age for the Masters Truck Class. I’m still debating between 40 and 45.

i think 50 is the right age. the pga seniors starts at 50

Theirs a hole bunch of racers in the 40 to 45 age range. A truck class is fine, just dont put a age range on it. Just weed out the cherry pickers. Im stickin with 13.5 Its the sh%t!

What about the racers that are going on 40 but still act like 13 (like me)!!

I say limit classes in the BRL for big races, but help everyone figure out what a good "beginner" motor should be for local racing. If there is an accepted slower motor then it will make it easier for people who do travel to other local tracks to bring a friend or child racer with them because they will know there is an accepted entry level motor.

I’ve not made the final decision on the minimum age for the Masters Truck Class. I’m still debating between 40 and 45.

You have all of our email addresses from the entry forms, I think. Maybe you should send out a mass email, find out people's ages and see how the numbers shake out.

I hear what you're saying and I don't disagree really, I just don't want to split up the classes at the series races. No one asked to be included in a points series race, just run the class and create the rules. I know some of the fathers would love to have a slower cless for their kids to start in without the hassles of a brushed motor... Run a slower class but leave it out of the points thing. MO Ralf

Hey Ralf, I wish this brushless thing would have started a couple years earlier when we were racing at the old place.

When the first 5800 motors came out, we kind of sat back to see how good they would be. They worked pretty good on the dirt ovals but were too fast for most carpet oval tracks. Then the 4300 came out and it looked good to a lot of guys, until we got the cars dialed and the rollout figured out. Almost 100 cars at Allen's for a one class, one race deal. Pretty good turnout. Then the 13.5 came out and a lot of the guys that ran stock brush liked it a lot better than 4300 and the class took off. Sonny has done a great job of organizing the brushless oval racing. The 13.5 motor now seems just a little to fast for a novice class and Novak is coming out with a slower motor which will be great for Sportsman class at the local level.
The BRL Series right now is mostly aimed at the racers that like to travel to the big events. As time goes on I'm sure Sonny (with maybe a little input from other racers) will develope the BRL rules so beginning racers will have a class to start out with at the local level and then move up to the Series races.

Just my thoughts.

What is the Masters Class going to be?

Is it going to be a class just to add another car in to have fun or a take it serious class?

Fun class-40 and up, have fun.

Serious racing- 50 and up, no one from the top 10 in points,no one from the bottom 50 in points, and maybe no track owners from Illinios.:D

Hey Mike. I wish they would have had brushless back then too, never would have had to buy a Dyno. I am hoping for a slower brushless motor as the 13.5 is a bit much for me right now and would rather quit than go back to brushed motors. Seems like I was getting the hang of the oval racing when the Pontoon track got jerked out from under us, then the move out here to NC and I quit for a long time. Got the itch and found a carpet track in Greenville TN (just outisde Bristol) only about an hour and twenty minutes drive, but only got a couple of runs in and the track "closed" for the season. Starting to get the car dialed in and getting used to it all over again. Good outdoor tracks near by and everyone races there for the summers. Two tracks that are running brushless classes outside are each about 2 1/2 hours away from me, get done racing about about 9-10 and then a LONG drive home. We had it great at Pontoon, racing twice a week really helped me start picking it up. Going to go to the local track next weekend and just run and see what happens, when they sign up and there is no place to run I will pack up, short drive and some practice at least. Maybe I can convert a few people to brushless. Still hoping for a little slower motor for 4-cell as I think it will be a while before they open up to LIPO, though they ARE running them in the off-road cars in the area? You guys running regular at the new track in IL, or mainly traveling? Might get to STL on a weekend sometime. Is that boy of yours racing? Ralf

Mike is that over 50 thing for my benefit? LOL

Mike is that over 50 thing for my benefit? LOL

Nope, I took care of you with the top 10 rule.:D

MK, are you still racing dirt O in the summers? Any of the guys out there running LIPOs in the dirt? The new COT that ARCOR is working on sounds very interesting, LIPO and a new brushless motor to go with. Ralf

A "spec" class from the BRL, I think would be a great idea along with a "seniors" class. The idea of using a slower motor also good news, the less experienced and youthfully chalanged of us probly need it, whether we'll admit it or not. These not being full touring classes but local or state sieries makes good sience also. I believe the BRL is making exelent progress bringing good racing and concistant rules to oval racing for the benifit of all.
Just my .02

If people want to run a brushless spec class why not run a 13.5 motor with spec tires, spec batteries and a gear or roll out rule. This would help slow things down for the beginners, and when they are ready to move up to regular 13.5 they would already have just about every thing they need.

13.5 is a quick motor and Im sure we will have something slower in the future, but it would be easy to slow down an entry level class to a managable speed for new comers I think.

1- 13.5 BL motor W/Gray or Black rotor (no sintered)
2- Truck Body with no wing & no back end cut out
3- Id say low mah battery but there are not a lot of great options there anymore so leave it 4200 in case they are able to move up
4- Possibly a spec chassis of some type. Something with no bells and whistles to confuse the new guy or cause discouragement right away because they dont understand the adjustments.
5- Low end speed control possibly. Wont slow them down really but keep cost down

Keep it simple

I agree with Rob on everything but one thing..........don't make them use a spec car cause if the ever want to move up into another class the they have to buy a new car kit. The idea of brushless is to work on the car so here's their chance.

Later,
Rick Liehr

I ran our 17.5 test motor for the first time on 4 cells last weekend in a 'Sportsman Stock' class. This class I would say is run similar to a lot of 'spec' type classes and usually runs 3-4 laps slower than the 'Expert Stock' class.

The 17.5 motor was really good on the one run I got to make - but I'm not going to try to sell it w/o more testing and gear changing...I think it WILL go faster still..

(There are some partial results and comparisons in the Brushless Spec thread)

I agree with Rob on everything but one thing..........don't make them use a spec car cause if the ever want to move up into another class the they have to buy a new car kit. The idea of brushless is to work on the car so here's their chance.

Later,
Rick Liehr I agree, give them a spec car that they can move up with and NOT have to start all over. Wish the chassis mfgs. would make a chassis with the assoc. front end, standard pod, BUT just fasten together without the T-Plate and three shock set up to start with. Then as they improved and moved out of spec, they could add the t-plate and shocks and still use the chassis etc..

Whats the matter with the classes we have already, Why would we need another one, two or three. The great thing about this series is there is more than 10 guy in your class. I don't want to see that narrowed. I just don't hink there is enough racer to add all these classes, ( yet)

Whats the matter with the classes we have already, Why would we need another one, two or three. The great thing about this series is there is more than 10 guy in your class. I don't want to see that narrowed. I just don't hink there is enough racer to add all these classes, ( yet)
we don't need anymore classes. let the locals handle the speed issues and when they are ready to run in the brl they will no what they have to run. i don't believe sonny started the brl for beginners to run in. thats why we have local tracks for the beginners to learn what it takes and to have fun. then if they want to advance they will have the brl to compete in.

we don't need anymore classes. let the locals handle the speed issues and when they are ready to run in the brl they will no what they have to run. i don't believe sonny started the brl for beginners to run in. thats why we have local tracks for the beginners to learn what it takes and to have fun. then if they want to advance they will have the brl to compete in.


I don't know about Sonny and the BRL, but myself as a travelling series guy, I rely on tracks local attendence to mix with the travellers.

If ALL the tracks that a series goes into has similar classes, it makes it a whole lot easier for racers who are not paticipating in the entire travelling series to come out for the occasional race or two...adding even more to the success of each event.

Personally, I like a 3-4 class structure.

Stock (or equivilant)
Limited Mod (or equivilant, 4300, 19t, etc.)
Modified

these three offer for the most part a full spectrum of competition...but adding one or two "FUN" classes to events makes great time fillers so guys who do run 2 classes can do so w/o killing themselves running back to back.

Whether this be

NASTRUCK
S/K MOD
Spec Stock
HOBBYSTOCK
USAC SPRINT/IMCA MOD
1/12th Scale

...to me the goal in that is to give a little less intimidating class for a new guy to run in...and then get him HOOKED on the 'BIG CLASSES'

Sonny's formula seems to have been very successful in the first year - hopefully that will continue to grow at a steady pace...and all the racers who didn't/couldn't make any events in the freshman year...will join in for the upcoming events.

I think you have to look at this as two different things guys:
You have the BRL National Racing Series; and then you have the BRL sanctioning body and rules package.

Basically a spec or entry level rules package handed down from the BRL would be beneficial, but as long as it is run at a local or regional level. The national events should continue to have the integrity, intensity, and level of driving that it showed last season.

Whats the matter with the classes we have already, Why would we need another one, two or three. The great thing about this series is there is more than 10 guy in your class. I don't want to see that narrowed. I just don't hink there is enough racer to add all these classes, ( yet) Some people do NOT have the skills to jump into 13.5 and drive with experienced people, you need to bring new people in or the sport will die eventually, any hobby/sport needs new blood. What class do you race? Where did you start? Did you have help? Take a chassis you have never driven, put in six cells (or a lipo) a 5800 motor, go to a track you have never seen, and see how you do with the local Mod guys? Unless you are one of the top drivers you will NOT fare well, don't recognize your name so suspect you are NOT of that caliber. That is what it is like to be new at Oval. I would love to have a slower motor and someone to race at that level with until I find my way again. I had only been doing it for about a year when I had to stop just as I was getting a feel for it. Ytrying to get started again with brushless, but the 13.5 is a LOT faster than stock motors and therefore the cars harder to drive and trickier to set up. New guys need a slower class to learn in while racing at speeds they can control, and not have to just worry about staying out of the faster guys way. IMO

Alot of the guys and ladies that raced 13.5 were newbies. The fast guys seen an opportunity to race another class. I think the old fart class would be a flop. Theres alot of fast old farts.. But dont make any other classes..

Some people do NOT have the skills to jump into 13.5 and drive with experienced people *snip* the 13.5 is a LOT faster than stock motors and therefore the cars harder to drive and trickier to set up.

If you need to practice your setup and driving skills without the speed of the 13.5, drop about 6 or 8 teeth. Will take the rip right out of the motor and give you a chance to hone your skills.

I think any spec class should be left up to local tracks. Let the BRL be for the serious racer. The ORL this year Outlaw Racing Legue in the northeast had a spec class this year and it was a flop. Spec drivers did not want to travel. I thought the spec class brought down the racing.

I wish we never had to hear the word spec ever again!

With that said a slower motor for folks to run that don't have the top notch skills will be coming sometime this fall, I would assume and then everyone will have a class to suit there liking at there home track. If a motor does come out like this and it catches on all over and the racers want it then I am sure Sonny will give it looking over but until that happens this talk is just that, talk and nothing more.

LARCGuy is right on the money with his advice! Slower is faster sometimes till you get control and then you can get faster as your driving and setup allow! A guy with a slower car that has control and can hold a line is better than one up to speed on the straights and swerving all over. Save money on parts too.

I don't see how 13.5 is all that fast. If it seems too fast to you, you probably need more practice time to find a line that works and you can run that line consistently.

A couple of concerns to me are

A) guys who CAN handle the speed of ANY motor...like to say "If you can't handle it...practice more" Sometimes that is NOT an option.

B) not EVERYBODY who enjoys racing...wants to be a NATIONAL caliber driver, some enjoy racing in a class they feel comfortable driving in...with guys they enjoy racing with.

C) as far as what classes get run, at what races...that should be dependant in part on LOCATION, TRACK and PARTICIPANTS.

While the BRL did some really cool things this year, they are far from what I'd consider a NATIONAL anything... If you map out the tracks of the BRL it was a very regional set of events.

http://southwesttour.com/images/amb/brl_map.jpg

But regardless of that, ALL racers don't travel..and all travellers won't make EVERY event. Some tracks are FAST - Some tracks are unforgiving - Some racers are GOOD - Some racers are GREAT - while some racers are just OK, but have a lot of FUN.

Some guys work very hard to be at the top of their game..and take r/c racing very seriously...while others work very hard to keep their families fed, mortgage paid..and at the end of the week just want to get away, relax and have a little low key FUN...

Do those guys NOT belong at the track YOU are racing at? (Not aimed at anyone directly, just in general terms)

I would say 20 of 40 regular guys in our deal spend less than 1 - 1 1/2 hours working on their stuff between monthly races...and if they get to race more than ONCE a month, they've got a lot of racing in....but they just as the guys who are racing as much as sometimes 3 times a week..and at the top of their game...are all equally welcome, and I will and do everything possible to create a class for them to run in within their ability and enjoyment level.

I am hoping one BRL race will be near enough to me to attend, hope that by then MAYBE there will be a class for the new 17.5 motor. There are a enough guys at the Greenville Track (TN) tha I think we will be running it as a stock class, maybe run WITH brushed stock motors for a while. I have my motor already and sales seem to be pretty good. Either way, Have a GREAT season again this year.

Ralf you might want to check back tomorrow night for the answers. :wave:

I will be waiting anxiously......