Just was wondering what the opinion is about the need for a slower motor for getting started in brushless oval. Racing 4-cell 13.5 is definatly faster than stock and a bit much for beginners to get started with. I think there is a need for a motor that was stock to maybe a little slower than stock brushed speeds with a brushless motor running 4-cells. Thanks for your opinion. Ralf

I would like to see a slower motor. Something even slower than stock. I have raced for quite awhile, and seen a lot of people leave because they never "get it". I think a slower class would be great. I mean we could throw 4 cell spec packs on the brushless motors too. I think there just needs to be something slower than current stock or 13.5. Honestly I have seen a lot of people that cant even handle stock move to 13.5, and just scare a lot of good drivers from "moving up" to 13.5. I know I am one of them that doesn't want to move up because I dont want to rebuild my car every week. I'll stick to brushed stock and 4300 for now untill we have a class suited for beginners, and people who need some help with driving skills. JMO

Joel White

Hang in there guys, NOVAK is working with ARCOR and Southwest Tour, developing a slower motor, like you are asking for. The motor is being tested at this time. One that will work with regular batteries and Lipo's...JUST BE PATIENT:thumbsup:

I agree something slower is probably needed. The only issue could be that with 4 cell on larger paved tracks guys might run out of gear. Right now I'm rolled at 4.64 in 13.5 on a 366' asphalt cap tire track.

Gears are being made as small as 76 for spurs and there are pinions 61 thru 65 in the works from PRS so I don't think gearing will be a problem long term.

Gears are being made as small as 76 for spurs and there are pinions 61 thru 65 in the works from PRS so I don't think gearing will be a problem long term.

Excellent! Nevermind the gearing thing then.

When Is That Solid Rear Axle/ Cluth Deal Gonna Come Into Play Like Karts

As JB said...Please be patient.



JB- Since you still have one of the original TEST motors and are closer to some of the short track stuff than I am...maybe someone can do some testing w/ that motor w/ 4 cell.

I would have to say though, with that thing only turning an approx. 12,800 or so RPM unloaded...It will need a HUGE roll out...

It doesn't look like I'm going to be available to do any short track testing until mid-June or so.

I also agree a slower motor is needed, I know that SWtour and JB are working on that and I'm sure that something will be worked out soon.

For the longest time all i ever heard was, why dont they make a faster stock motor.. I want to go faster.. Now that is basically what we have... its the perfect speed..

Excellent! Nevermind the gearing thing then.

Pat they have em at the triclone.. 76 tooth i believe.. Thats what i am using on my ae pod..

Yeah I knew about the spurs, didn't know they had bigger pinions in the works too.

Could you put a roll out rule on the motors or would it damage the motors to run at high rpm's w/o a big load?

It wouldn't hurt anything.

Rollout rules are just tough to police.

not any harder to tech then any other rule ,at our track we ask everyone to run the same size spur , and with the rollout program it only takes a second to figure,

If it works for you guys that's great. It all depends on how tightly it is enforced and how close to the edge the guys push it.

Give the same foam tire and same calipers to five different guys and see if they all tell you the same diameter. That is the problem.

I still believe that we need a slower motor for the beginners and the guys that are totally on a budget. Some of the guys that ran the BRL were faster than the average 4300 guys, with the proper setup the 13.5 is very fast and as guys get their setup more refined they are even faster than before.

Pat Simkins was at Marshalltown a couple of weeks ago and he was faster with a 13.5 than most of us with 4300's.

You need another choice, "A motor that is slower then the 13.5 to work with lipo's." Forget the 4 cell thing ;)

I still believe that we need a slower motor for the beginners and the guys that are totally on a budget. Some of the guys that ran the BRL were faster than the average 4300 guys, with the proper setup the 13.5 is very fast and as guys get their setup more refined they are even faster than before.

Pat Simkins was at Marshalltown a couple of weeks ago and he was faster with a 13.5 than most of us with 4300's.

That is happening up here too!

At the beginning of the last oval season here in Central Michigan, the 13.5 class started pretty small. Mostly made up of guys that could not [for whatever reason, budget, skill etc. etc.] or did not want to keep up with the top dogs in the 4300 class (read Michigan Militia).

About 3/4 of the way through the 2007 season the number of 4300 heats went from 3 or 4 per race day to 1 or 2 heats per race day. One time there was no 4300 class because they were all at a BRL race. Meanwhile, the 13.5 class was growing and growing. It was even attracting many of the 4300 drivers as a second class! Some of these guys were putting a 13.5 motor in a car that is already set-up for 4300 and kickin' some butt! They simply took the wing off and switched motors, for the most part. No rule about the back of the body being in place. And they were setting the bar a little higher for the rest of us. Generally, that is a good thing for those of us that like a friendly challenge. Others.... not so much.

A slower motor will be a good thing for the guys on a budget and the guys that are truly here for the fun of it. Maybe it'll be slow enough to be 'too slow' for the speed freaks!

...did a little 'informal' parking lot type run w/ the new TEST MOTOR with the LIPO

IT Deffinately got the speed knocked out of it...I don't think I was able to get it anywhere close to tall enough on the gear ratio

TEST MOTOR w/ LIPO and CAP TIRES geared 88/55 still felt like it topped out in 35 ft. So I'd expect w/ foamies it would need 78/60 LOL ...can't wait to try it on a short track.

i think a lot of guys want a slower motor just from the shock, the first time i tried to run at last years tri-clone brushless race i bought three right lower control arms before i pull the 4300 and put back the stock motor this year running pratice with a 13.5 i have improved my times by 5 tens a lap and couldn't be happier i've learned more about chassie set-up in the last three weeks than in the last 5 years. Once we all run for a while and get use to going faster and tune the chassie more i'll bet the cry for slower motors will die down... we have a brand new (this winter) racer who runs are beginners class on a 339 line high bank cap tire track and is doing just fine.

I've seen some New racers adapt to the speeds really quickly...I've also seen others who have been doing RC Cars for years that still find STOCK hard to drive...

Different people have different abilities...and some will never be top level drivers...I just hope tracks, clubs and racers don't EVER leave these guys out of a local program.

You need another choice, "A motor that is slower then the 13.5 to work with lipo's." Forget the 4 cell thing ;) Would love to forget it but don't think I can for as long as it will probably take for the in-door tracks to accept a bunch of Oval nuts charging lipos in their buildings! Can see outdoor races with the LIPOs but think it will be a while before they will run indoors, and as long as it took to get most to switch to brushless, LIPOs will take a while... IMO Ralf

...............

We have enough BL motors to choose from right now. 4 cell 13.5 is VERY slow to me. Too many to choose from now 3.5,4.5.5,6.5,7.6,8.5,10.5,13.5 now the 17.5 and 21.5??? IMO there should be 3 pan car classes 4 cell 13.5 for the newbies because of the slow speed and 4 cell 4300 for the rest of the group and 4 cell mod for the speed freaks(whatever BL motor you want).


I watched 4 cell stock guys and 4 cell 13.5 run and nobody lifts the trigger, that isn't the way to drive any race car. I feel you need to have that need to control the throttle. It s great for the beginners until they learn how to control the throttle.

ive never not lifted on my 13.5, stock yes, i agree thow lots to choose from

Ken,

You are basing that on 4 cell classes. ALL of the testing we are currently involved in is based on testing w/ LIPO batteries. I can tell you LIPO 13.5 is FAST

Is LIPO Battery going to be for everyone? NO, but neither is Brushless.

My hopes with the help of NOVAK and ARCOR is to be able to find equals, or close enough equals to give racers a choice of TECHNOLOGY or OLD SCHOOL and have them be able to fit together.

STOCK and 13.5 4 cell DO NOT BELONG Together...but my hopes are we'll find a B/L motor that can be used w/ a 3200 style LIPO pack, and lay down identical lap times to a TOP Quality STOCK MOTOR with the BEST 4200 pack. NOT MORE - NOT LESS

That would allow guys who are afraid of LIPOS to still race in their same class, but would also allow the B/L motors and the LIPO Batteries to slowly work their way into the mix w/o CReATiNG NeW classes.

WILL IT WORK? Dunno - but we'll NEVER know if we don't give it a hell of a good chance.

We have enough BL motors to choose from right now. 4 cell 13.5 is VERY slow to me. Too many to choose from now 3.5,4.5.5,6.5,7.6,8.5,10.5,13.5 now the 17.5 and 21.5??? IMO there should be 3 pan car classes 4 cell 13.5 for the newbies because of the slow speed and 4 cell 4300 for the rest of the group and 4 cell mod for the speed freaks(whatever BL motor you want).


I watched 4 cell stock guys and 4 cell 13.5 run and nobody lifts the trigger, that isn't the way to drive any race car. I feel you need to have that need to control the throttle. It s great for the beginners until they learn how to control the throttle.

I sort of resent the comments on how slow 13.5 is and that it is for newbies. My guess is you haven't run a 13.5 that was geared right or set up right. Right now 13.5 is as fast as 4300 was two years ago. Just using one specific track as an example, at the Tri-Clone at the 04' paved Nats the average lap time (over 4 minutes) for a middle of the road mod run was probably around 5.6 seconds. This summer 5.6 second laps up front will probably be routine in the 4300 class. It's getting pretty hard to consider 4300 the class for the masses and 13.5 the class for newbies.

That being said I do like how things have gone.
13.5 = Former stock guys
4300 = Former 19T guys
3.5 = Former mod guys

That works for me, but where does that leave the spec classes? Most tracks have their own version of a "spec" class (for lack of a better term). What motor are those guys supposed to run? 13.5? A motor that is as fast as 4300 was a couple years ago and will probably be as fast as current 19T within another year or two. That will definitely not help with keeping new racers.

I agree... My home track (c-Bus) goes like this for records..
4300 70 4:00
19t 68 4:00
13.5 67 4:00
stock 64 4:00
All classes there have had top level guys run in it...so it should be a pretty good representation..

Then on the sintered 13.5 versus non sintered 4300...

Last year I ran SCH arcor BL nats... I ran 59 4:02 NON SINTERED...

This year at SCH nats I ran 13.5 and ran 59 4:02 twice,,that included some bumps as well...

This year My 13.5 car qualifiers would have qualified me 5th in the 4300 A-Main.. or 3rd overall at the non sintered 4300 race the year before.

they hardly seem slow... IMHO I hate to see more classes added but Ive seen a larger gap in 13.5 racing than I do in 4300... I would NOT consider 13.5 a NEWB class.. Its way closer to 19T than it is stock everywhere Ive run it.

Im also with Mudd>>> I blip the throttle in 13.5 as well at most tracks..

I agree something slower is probably needed. The only issue could be that with 4 cell on larger paved tracks guys might run out of gear. Right now I'm rolled at 4.64 in 13.5 on a 366' asphalt cap tire track.

Is that the Tri-Clone?

GEARING is going to be the HUGE concern with a slower motor I'm sure...especially for 4 cell.

The gearing I'm looking at for the NEW NoVAK Test Motors...I don't know if I can get...

(Hey PRS - wanna help a guy out doing some testing... I need a batch of the NEW HUGE Pinions...and some of the Spurs smaller than 88) biggest I go is 88/55 currently and that AIN'T gonna get it... and other than doing this testing, I don't know if I'll run that tall of gears or not, since I don't race STOCK I usually run Mod or 19t type classes.

(I go from 14 to 55 on pinions - and 88 - 128 on spurs) ..and just bought two of Briano's pinion holders to accomodate the larger gears anticipating that I'll be ordering some really soon..but I just bought 3 LIPO chargers, 3 - 3200 LIPOs, and 3 sets of VELO tires - so the TEST budget is getting tight.

Is that the Tri-Clone?

Yup, although most are having success lower then that.

................

IF they have to start out in 13.5 you probably wont get too many new racers, need a slower class, more like STOCK motor speeds, and 13.5 is NO WAY like a stock motor. Brushless motors are a great way to bring people into Oval Racing but 13.5 is way too fast for a newb and the older guys whos reflexes are stating to slow..IMO you NEED a slower motor to get people into racing so they can MOVE UP to the faster classes with some driving experience. This "speed" will keep the sport small, if you want to grow you need an entry level class. Another question, why do you think the traveling classes all need to be FAST? Ralf

IF they have to start out in 13.5 you probably wont get too many new racers, need a slower class, more like STOCK motor speeds, and 13.5 is NO WAY like a stock motor. Brushless motors are a great way to bring people into Oval Racing but 13.5 is way too fast for a newb and the older guys whos reflexes are stating to slow..IMO you NEED a slower motor to get people into racing so they can MOVE UP to the faster classes with some driving experience. This "speed" will keep the sport small, if you want to grow you need an entry level class. Another question, why do you think the traveling classes all need to be FAST? Ralf

I agree totally....especially if/when Lipo's take over.

Patients guys.............patients

Is it true that LRP speedo adds 6 dedrees of timing to the motor just some thing I heard?

Is it true that LRP speedo adds 6 dedrees of timing to the motor just some thing I heard?

I would have to vote NO on that. I have and LRP Sphere COMP and a GTB. I can not tell the difference as far as performance.
I won't elaborate here about the reliability issues with the LRP.

Most lrp owners do NOT want to elaborate on reliability OR customer service issues! IMO Ralf

I would have to vote NO on that. I have and LRP Sphere COMP and a GTB. I can not tell the difference as far as performance.
I won't elaborate here about the reliability issues with the LRP.

Im in the same boat and agree 100%.. IF It does add 6 degrees Im not noticing it on the track. And reliability.. I wont even open that can of worms...

Is it true that LRP speedo adds 6 dedrees of timing to the motor just some thing I heard?

It also does your taxes and mows your lawn. :thumbsup: :drunk:

In reality it may or may not switch coils with slighty different timing then the GTB, but that doesn't seem to really equate to difference in performance just a different optimal gearing.