Hi im getting into brushless lots of interest here i was wondering why the brl only alows novak motors? thanks :thumbsup:

because there support for oval racing is above and beyond.they also stand behind there product and if you have a problem they dont make you feel like a jackass and wait for 3 months for your stuff to get back to ya after repairs.

WOW who does that sounds weird?

were starting alot of brushless out here and we are going to run what ya brung let s see who has what seams kind of weird in racing to only have one motor? wheres the competition?

competition is on the track where it belongs!

Dave,

I personally think it's more about controlling the environment. NOVAK did step up big time to help out the BRL and get B/L racing on the map, but in the future I think we'll see more mfg's allowed...but NOT until they've been track tested and it's proven they are not out of line with the Novaks performance.

I've seen a few responses citing things like: TRINITY was allowed to make FASTER STOCK MOTORS, etc. But, TRINITY's biggest competition was TRINITY. What was the last non EPIC based stock motor that had huge success?

NoVAK set the stage, to which the rest will be measured.

If a NOVAK 10.5 class is created and a "other brand" builds a 10.5 to a different set of standards and runs like a 12.5 or a 8.5 they will not fit within the boundries of the class. I've seen some of the other mfg's. state that if they can't build a SUPERIOR/FASTER product then why build one at all?

I personally hope a set of 'specs' can be put together allowing only ONE type of wind, a basic motor weight, and other restrictions and tolerences as well. I also hope that when these standards are written we can find every possible Bug and Loophole and CLOSE THEM before they are opened. Diameter or Rotor, weight of Rotor, size of wire, sensor vs. non-sensor, etc.

Until then - LOCK OUT ANYTHING ELSE.

well it seams like its a club that does not want to alow other new members in not trying to be a smart ass just trying to see where the trend is going.

Dave,

I personally think it's more about controlling the environment. NOVAK did step up big time to help out the BRL and get B/L racing on the map, but in the future I think we'll see more mfg's allowed...but NOT until they've been track tested and it's proven they are not out of line with the Novaks performance.

I've seen a few responses citing things like: TRINITY was allowed to make FASTER STOCK MOTORS, etc. But, TRINITY's biggest competition was TRINITY. What was the last non EPIC based stock motor that had huge success?

NoVAK set the stage, to which the rest will be measured.

If a NOVAK 10.5 class is created and a "other brand" builds a 10.5 to a different set of standards and runs like a 12.5 or a 8.5 they will not fit within the boundries of the class. I've seen some of the other mfg's. state that if they can't build a SUPERIOR/FASTER product then why build one at all?

I personally hope a set of 'specs' can be put together allowing only ONE type of wind, a basic motor weight, and other restrictions and tolerences as well. I also hope that when these standards are written we can find every possible Bug and Loophole and CLOSE THEM before they are opened. Diameter or Rotor, weight of Rotor, size of wire, sensor vs. non-sensor, etc.

Until then - LOCK OUT ANYTHING ELSE.

yep i agree on say a can size but for say a mod class as long as the can is the same who cares what go s on underneith?

arent there meters to make sure what guys are running are in spec? a monopoly in racing is not cool :thumbsup:

Part of the popularity is the parity between motors! Everyone wants the motors to be the same speed and that is what has people excited about brushless.

yep i agree on say a can size but for say a mod class as long as the can is the same who cares what go s on underneith?

arent there meters to make sure what guys are running are in spec? a monopoly in racing is not cool :thumbsup:

Mod should be just that whatever you want! I and most were speaking of 13.5 and 10.5 classes that are based on a specific motor.

do you think if out here we went with brl rules that other s will be aloud once the are deamed on par?

Sonny has stated multiple times that the Novak motors will be the ONLY motors for the forseeable future. As it should be.

If you look around a little bit you'll see this has been brought up several times.

To be honest this a mute point. There are no other motors on the market that are built to the same specs as the Novaks. I haven't heard anywhere that any of the other companies are interested in doing that either. There is zero incentive for them to bother.

why dont you think there is incentive for them? there are other companys coming in to the market place. other competition is better for everyone keeps them on there toes .

I agree with Pat, I also think that there is no benefit to the racers if other manufacturers are allowed, you know the mentality, a new motor of the week club, and then it becomes very expensive.

hmmm but what abought factory guys who want to race brushless you are not allowing competition to come in? okay i see the point in say 13.5 maybe even 4300 but guys like phil marebela and such cant and wont race arent we closing the door to them?

any time there has been anykind of spec racing over the years the series has failed because racers are exactly that racers always looking for that little bit more id like to see a pro class opened up and lets see who has what novak lrp or whoever? again thanks for replys :thumbsup:

I beleive that in 13.5 and 4300 it should be one motor keep it simple. For 19T most places use one motor (ultrabird, komodo) Look what happened when the handwound 19t came out there was a drop in racers in that class. However for mod there should be some type of specs and let any manufacture compete within those rules. That is how it curently is in brushed racing.

got cha joe what do you think we should have for marshalls and such are we saying novak 4300 only?

dave w1 here is a quick cut & paste from another post I made a few weeks ago. I think it pretty much sums up the info your looking for.

I’ve also been informed ROAR is going to update there Brushless rules package and only allow Sensored systems. As you know LRP and Novak have system that currently qualify and one other major manufacturer will have a system that meets this guideline in the near future. ROAR is also developing a rules package for the 13.5 class. This should allow more manufacturers to play in this market.
From the BRL stand point I will say this again we are staying exclusively with the Novak 13.5 &10.5(4300) motors. I feel allowing other motors would likely only drive the cost up and NOT make for better competition. We have a proven motor package that works and I do not see the need to change.

One other item. I don’t know what the exact dollar figure is but I would have to say the amount of support Novak has shown to the oval community over the last couple of years in the form of race sponsorship and prizes for the BRL, ARCOR , ROAR, Snowbirds, or local events would be the highest of any company in the oval market. Just something to think about next time you're looking at an ESC.

We do have a Mod class that allows Novak and LRP motors and has rules in place to allow other systems in the future.

roar is not going to alow only sensored motors dont know who started that rumor but its false thanks for the clarification

Sorry not a rumor, better check with the head of the ROAR Tech committee.

. I am not going to get into all that I talked to them

> about. Again, for everyone else ROAR is not considering a sensored

> only rule.

thanks

In the end the guys running in the BRL only want 1 motor. I bet 95%+ would agree.

I highly doubt the Novak only motor rules in 4300 are keeping anybody from running who wants to be. The only example you gave was Phil Marabella, who interestingly enough does already run a 4300 motor only class in the ORL, see results below.

http://www.outlawracingleague.com/07points.html

As far as competition goes I doubt you'll see a price drop. Novak already has a ton of competition in the backyard basher market and in other forms of racing that are much larger than us. That'll be what pushes prices. Even if this did effect prices it would not be for the better as we'd all have buy motors more often and pay the MFGs development costs trying to out do one another.

Lastly, and maybe most importantly is loyalty. I haven't seen any other MFGs step up and show any interest whatsoever in oval. Novak has and to the tune of thousands and thousands of dollars.

okay so if another manufactuer came to the brl and said we want to be a major part of this here s a ton of cash they cant play and yes i know all abought phil hes a fried and a team mate and wont be running a novak as soon as the tekin is ready

we want to run brushless out here and will but i guess we will make are mistakes and learn along the way

the brl seams like a great thing anything to help oval is a plus :thumbsup:

. I am not going to get into all that I talked to them

> about. Again, for everyone else ROAR is not considering a sensored

> only rule.

thanks


They may have changed there minds in the last couple of weeks It’s happened before.

Honestly I don’t really care either way since ROAR really does not do much for oval racers anyway.

Run what ever rules you like. I think most are happy with direction we are going with the BRL.

okay so if another manufactuer came to the brl and said we want to be a major part of this here s a ton of cash they cant play and yes i know all abought phil hes a fried and a team mate and wont be running a novak as soon as the tekin is ready

What difference do "what ifs" make? This is a pointless discussion. What manufacturer is looking to build motors that would mirror the performance of the Novaks? None that I know of. I don't think anyone is going to be falling all over themselves to spend hundreds of thousands to develop and tool a motor exactly like a competitors, so that they can sell a couple hundred a year to oval racers.

...I guess I'm kinda lost on some of this...

If a track/club or a NEW organization wants to have brushless racing and only allow the MAMBA MAX motor/speedcontrol system - nobody is stopping them.

If a track/club or a NEW organization wants to have a brushless racing and only allow the TEKIN or ORION or...TRINITY motor and/or speed controls - nobody is stopping them.

I commend Sonny on his BRL rules - THEY Work for him and his group.

At the same time, the rules we'll run for our deal will be very similar - but not identical because we are testing to allow LIPOs. The LIPOs will totally change the face of all the classes since they are so much higher voltage. With our current testing, there's a good chance we'll be using a 17.5/Lipo vs. the 4 cell/10.5 class. The 13.5 or 10.5 might become a Limited Mod class and so on.

For those who ReALLY want speed - We'll offer a OPEN MOD class. In this class you'll be able to use your MAMBA, NOVAK, TEKIN, ORION or whose ever motor/speed control as long as it passes basic requirements...which will be determined at a later date.

NOVAK in my opinion only, my 2 cents :thumbsup:

thanks guys!!!!!

Dave,

The ORL allows the tekin SC but unfortunately it needs a software update before it will work with the Novak motor. I can only assume it works with the tekin brushless motor. I agree we need more motors and we should get Henning to allow others that meet the same "class" as the 4300 etc. Does tekin have a 4300 equivalent?

You know Who......See Ya at Seaford???

Dave,

The ORL allows the tekin SC but unfortunately it needs a software update before it will work with the Novak motor. I can only assume it works with the tekin brushless motor. I agree we need more motors and we should get Henning to allow others that meet the same "class" as the 4300 etc. Does tekin have a 4300 equivalent?

You know Who......See Ya at Seaford???

The software will be on the speedo when they hit the shelf in the VERY near future to "work" with the Novak motors.

They will have an equal motor in power (RPM's per Volt) for both the 4300 and 13.5 Novak Motors.

Thank you. The near future means.......???? Days?? Need a new Speedo in 10 days!

Near future. I think I remember hearing that line back in September. :)

Near future. I think I remember hearing that line back in September. :)

Well, if the Novak motors were a little easier to work with ...........they would have been on the shelf already......

Near future. I think I remember hearing that line back in September. :)

LMAO...I think it was May though!!

EA

pete il make sure you have a speedo no problem il take one out of my car :wave: The last thing tekin is going to do is put out something that will have problems while other companys might they wont .The cambells should be acknowledged for all they are doing to bring new products out.Not made fun of because they want to make sure its right as for money being spent on development they have it to spend and are

I think the worst thing BRL could do is allow other manufacurers motors in any class except the open mod. The only reason I got back in after almost four years is the brushless and ONE motor, do not want to get involved in another motor war thing. My 00.02 Ralf

is it just me or has this turned into a tekin vs BRL thing? if so sorry as its a lost cause as i KNOW for a fact that NOVAK and the BRL has way more supporters the tekin ever will.........why is that????

NOPE NOT AT ALL we are starting alot of brushless out here and would like too explore all options.And why the hate for tekin anyhow? developing products is a bad thing?

I do not HATE any manufacturer, it is just that NOVAK spent the money, and got there first and we need to show support for that and not dilute the competition with another motor war, what is the point? Ralf

i just like the fact that the competition is so close, the motors are so close, we've had enough upgrades for one year, i think the novak motors hav found a happy medium with the sintered arm, i will not buy a new motor for 2008, no need they are all so close, now i do not run novak speedo's, i run lrp's, which service blows, id b willing to try a tekin when they are avalible, and legal, but the motors that novaks got are so similar in speed. ( quote from sunny brown) i gave his motor back to him after winning the fortwayne race and he offered to sell it, no one wanted it because they knew the motor in there cars were identical,,,,,,,,,, dont see that happening when we throw different motors in the mix, nothing against tekin, just think the novaks are the way to go,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,no motor war, why try to change something so succesful
C3

You can pretty well call 10.5 and 13.5 spec classes. Did anyone else other than Trinity build spec motors for the spec classes?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Sonny and the BRL have done their homework in oval. If a new track wants to adopt the BRL rules then it just makes it easier for other racers to travel to that track. I've read enough posts on Hobbytalk to know that one set of rules may work at one track and fail miserably at another.

I've seen plenty of open rules/run what your brung type classes fail. The reason they fail is because people want to win at all costs. They also fail because the average racer doesn't feel like it is a level playing field. Some factory guy/sponsored racer comes in and starts winning and drives away the average racer.

Since the BRL 10.5/13.5 classes are a more level playing field it has actually attracted racers in the Midwest instead of driving racers away. People are talking about chassis setup instead of the brush/motor of the moment. I see this as a good thing. However, the U.S. is still a free country and the BRL does allow an open mod class. Plenty of room there for everybody else.

sonny wanted to be like the oval heads in florida that only allow one 19 turn motor! imagine a oval class where everyone has the same motor in there car.

if you start to allow the 5 other 10.5 motors and one or two brands are the hot ticket for a paticular track than everyone is forced to buy one of every motor out there.

it all comes down to close racing and cost control..

and the fact that NOVAK stepped up and has been on board with the oval heads for over a year now.

open mod is a great place to showcase the latest and greatest.

i want a tekin speedo more than anyone else..but i don't want to have the tekin outdate all the other brushless speedos in 07....again it's all about keeping costs down. if the new brushless tekin speedo proves to be on par with the other speedos and not a advantage over them it will be legal in the focar series august 07 if thats what the racers vote on. i like the tekin speddo because of the case size ..it's small...but if it makes the other speedos obsolete than it would be costly to all to upgrade to run up front.

again keep costs down and keep the racing close...
why have racer A worry about a lrp 10.5 motor not being fast enbough to run with the tekin 10.5 motor or the novak 10.5 motor..pick one motor and thats it...racing is very close ..teching is easier....

13.5 novak
10.5 novak
open mod anything goes

think outside the box it's not all about bigger better faster..we need to attract racers not bust there wallets each month..........

and i wouldn't attack the brl series it is here and it's not going anywhere any time soon..work with sonny not against him...they guy is moving forward and doing one heck of a job with his series..i'm not sure how many racers understand what it takes to do what he does...

keep up the good work sonny and do what you know is right bruther!

peace mother focar out!

Thats a good Idea for a Open Mod class next year Sonny, Open Brushless with any system, any motor. That would be perfect for the other brand brushless systems to showcase what they have..... That is if they are serious about breaking into the brushless oval racing world. :thumbsup:

Our mod class on the left coast is like this already. Run whatever you like. It's worked out very well.

Which seems to be the fastest system?

Very well put Katfish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Haven't really noticed much difference on the short tracks - the MAMBA/MAMBA 7700 has the quickest single lap on the velodrome though..but the GTB has the record run.

The sensorless Mamba does have issues not wanting to spin the right direction on occasion too.

I'm hearing the Mamba 7700 puts out a TON more power than the Novak 3.5, but I haven't seen any dyno data backing that up.