I'm sitting here and wondering what would be the smallest can motor assembly out there? What application would it be in and would it be adaptable to slot cars?

I was thinking N or Z-scale model train engines would need to be pretty small but I can't seem to find any sources online to even view one.

The reason I am wondering is because I always wanted to try an accurately sized HO sprint car or other open-wheeler with a really narrow chassis.

??????????????????

'doba

How about a Zip Zap type motor?
Of course 6 volts may be too much for them let alone 18 volts...

Just got an AW camaro from epay, it had a life like dot chassis conversion. the can in it looks pretty small

Dont quote me 'Doba, but I'm thinking that the train motors are engineered (no pun inteneded) more for torque than top end. I'm just lookin' down the track. Maybe they would work due to the fact that they wont be required to haul a bunch of freight, and you'll gain some R's. Heck might not even come into play on a short track where torque is the ticket.

If I come across an N guage loco, I'll be sure and kill it, skin it, and let you know! Great concept 'Doba. It would really open some doors.

Bill

I looked into the same thing about a year age...

The Wingmaster sprint from HO Racepro uses a KATO n-scale train motor,and a GMP 1/50th scale diecast car.
When I started looking for one I soon learned that KATO is like the top of the line in n-scale trains and $alty!
So I built my own wingmaster style car powered by a lifelike T Chassis motor.


The wingmaster is a 1/50th scale... I wanted to build a smaller one out of a 1/64th scale diecast car... that led to zip-zap motors.

I used the monster truck sized motor it runs pretty good on an 18 volt lifelike pack... but don't know for how long yet?

The tiny ones for zip-zap cars will really scream for about 3 seconds on the same pack... :eek: They will need some kind of voltage regulator or voltage dropping diode because they were made to run on like 2 volts.
Radio shack has a 5 volt regulator but it's bigger than the motor .

I think the little motors were first made for use in pagers and cell phones to make them vibrate.

ZIG

You could always try turning a can motor up on its side if you need it narrower. Might create some height problems, but its an idea, anyway. OR, if you can score some fairly cheap, didnt the tyco motorcycles use some kind of narrow can motor? Never seen one up close.

How bout a motor from a tyco motorcycle. Those are narrow xept for the brush tubes.

I used to dabble with Zip Zaps and those types of micro RC cars 4-5 years ago. Radio Shack used to offer a hop up engine kit that included a motor known as the "NOS" (nitrous Oxide) motor. That motor was tiny, but powerful......in fact all of those little can motors were extremely small.

You'd definately have to design or build the car with the proper resistors or etc. ....otherwise these tiny motors would just nuke.

The smallest I dabbled a bit in was the LifeLike Tchassis can motor.
I have actually layed 1 flat in a JL tjet chassis. A little grindin here,cuttin there,and some tweeken and gear play to get it to line up. But presto.It fits :thumbsup:
As TX said the zap motors are to small for the power.It would be like 3mile Island on 18 volts. Nuculer meltdown.

I have some old Z-Scale trains, pretty small in width but the arms are pretty long. These are some huge torque motors, not too much on speed. But the Zip zap motors are really durable, I've run the monster trucks on 9 volts before using aftermarket radio boards, talk about insane power and the Stage 2 motors will handle it if you can still find them.

what resistor do you need to make a zip zap motor safe for slot cars?

The smallest I dabbled a bit in was the LifeLike Tchassis can motor.
I have actually layed 1 flat in a JL tjet chassis. A little grindin here,cuttin there,and some tweeken and gear play to get it to line up. But presto.It fits :thumbsup:
.
Do you have a picture of that chassis? I would like to see it....

I think you'd have to rewind those Zip Zap arms with heavier wire for 18v operation. Could be an interesting experiment. :)

Do you have a picture of that chassis? I would like to see it....

I second T-Jet Racer too...

Gear Buster give us some pics of it

I think you'd have to rewind those Zip Zap arms with heavier wire for 18v operation. Could be an interesting experiment. :)

The one that I ran for about 3 seconds before it went POOF was disected,
It has no comutator brushes just wire springs to get the power to the com.

The com was OK... the little wire springs are what burned up!

I don't know if the bigger zip-zap motor for monster trucks has brushes or not, havn't disected one yet. But it really does run on 18 volts :thumbsup:

ZIG

It would be like 3mile Island on 18 volts. Nuculer meltdown.


HAHAHAH, now that's some picture that you've painted Steve :tongue:

Here is a KATO GM5 motor from an N Scale Train...
http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/511/KATO_GM5.jpg

It probably is the smallest can motor that can handle the volts or HO Racepro wouldn't be using it in the Wingmaster Sprint.

A lifelike T motor set on it's side will fit into the same 1/50th scale diecast car and probably turn a lot more RPM's

Zig

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/511/medium/3_lil_Motors.jpg

Lifelike T chassis motor / zip-zap monster truck / zip-zap car

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/511/medium/InSlim.jpg

In line Slimline anyone :tongue:

ZIG

Will post a pic tom.of the chassis. Need to get a clear shot ..

This way the elders don't got blind trying to see the pic.
ok where did the screen go:freak:

here's sumpun i stuck up here a while back,look in round 2/auto world pg6;"suggestion for tom lowe racing car release"page 3,#43.the chassis is a p-cicle stick and yes it runs!

Cordoba
If you take a Tyco slot car motor assembly and glue the bulkheads and magnets together to make a pseudo can motor out of it you get a pretty small package if you trim the excess bulkhead parts off flush with the magnets. I started to make a more scale f1 car a few years ago that would have worked pretty well if I'd finished it. This assembly turned sideways might work for your sprint car idea. I wanted to also try a scale rail dragster but didn't get around to it.

How about a Z train motor?
I found picures but no dimensions...

http://www.ztrains.com/pages/tech/3_pole/motor_1b_lrg.jpg

How about a Z train motor?
I found picures but no dimensions...

http://www.ztrains.com/pages/tech/3_pole/motor_1b_lrg.jpg


I WANT ONE !!!!
ZIG

Here it is.The T chassis motor in a JL tjet chassis.
Will try to take a little clearer pics later. :cool:

New pics posted.Enjoy :wave:

Here it is.The T chassis motor in a JL tjet chassis.
Will try to take a little clearer pics later. :cool:


WOAH!!! Now that'd be a smokin' fast Tjet for sure.....hmmm...might just have to try that soon :thumbsup:

Dig it! Looks really clean. Have you done one for a road course car?
BH

excellent job stuffin that t motor in a t-jet. I want to try both the zip and the t. The zip motor would let you drop the body down. Does anyone know what size resistor to use with it?

This looks interesting...Model Motor with Worm Drive
http://www.technobots.co.uk/en-gb/dept_247.html

the zip motors are so small, you could probably build an all wheel drive chassis... I just need to know, what kind of resistor would I need to knock the votage down?

For your calculation of a voltage divider, try this http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/voldiv.html

For example, a resistor of 4.7kOhm and one of 1kOhm will give a result of 4V of output with an input of 16V

Anyone know the dimensions on the zip-zap armature? Or have a photo of the arm only? Especially the car one.

http://www.nigellawton009.com/MiniMotors.html
This may be the smallest can motor assembley that "could" work for an HO car. It's 12 volt rated,so it will be the most likely to withstand 18v that most folks use.
It nets out to .390 dia. Not stated what the com/brush matl. is.
I think they could be pretty cheap.
If you all go to some of the surplus electrical sites, they have alot of interesting stuff.

Smalltime

http://www.nigellawton009.com/6VMicroMotors.html

Here's another one
MUCH smaller, sold with voltage adaptor.

smalltime

Thanks for the replies guys-- is the diameter for the armature or the whole assembly? I'm looking for the armature diameter and shaft length if that is known.

For your calculation of a voltage divider, try this http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/voldiv.html

For example, a resistor of 4.7kOhm and one of 1kOhm will give a result of 4V of output with an input of 16V

Back in the olden days of radio control car racing, Before electronic speed controls and BEC "battery eliminator circuit" there were voltage dropping diodes that could be soldered between the speed control resistor and radio reciever to reduce the power source down to around 6 volts to power the radio reciever.

I'm thinking that this type of diode may be what were looking for here, the diodes were real small. I'm not an electronics wizard by any means but I think a diode works kinda like a dam and only allows a certain amount of voltage thru it, without heat buildup like a resistor would have.

ZIG

Edited 4-1-07 diodes reduced voltage down to 6 volts equal to 4 AA batteries @ 1.5 volts each.

Zig-
You could be thinking of Zener Diodes. This subject is pretty complicated, but in simple terms; general diodes limit the direction of current flow to one direction. If the current is reversed it will not flow through the diode. Zener diodes are designed to allow the current to reverse once the current reaches a set limit. It will also reduce the reverse voltage going through it to some extent, though the diode can be burned up if this is not controlled to the spec of the diode rating.

An example of these diodes can be seen in the old Ultra 5 AFX slotless cars.

http://www.modelmotorist.com/web-data/Components/chassis/ault5btl.jpg

A burst of power from the Ultra 5 controller would allow the front wheels to turn and cause the car to lane change. The problem with this set up was everyone leaned on the turning button because it added more power to the arm too, forcing the diodes to get really hot. Makes sense since the only way you could pass was by going faster. :( In some cases the soldered connections on the chassis's melted. I had one of those cars. The design was meant for brief bursts of "overload", not constant reverse current.

http://www.planetofspeed.com/slots/ultra5carmeltedsolder.jpg

Have I lost everyone now? :freak: :p

I guess to follow up on the diode idea:

A diode wouldn't be practical in a proportional (varying) voltage application like a slot car. You would still need a resistor to do that job.

Another good use for a zener diode would be adding LED lights to cars. You want a constant light to emit from the LED. (which is a diode itself) You could use a zenor diode to keep the voltage constant, providing you have a resistor to reduce the power to the LED. Sort of a poor man's voltage regulator. ;)

These are the diodes I was thinking about...
http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/511/diode.jpg

They do look like the same zener diodes in the ultra 5's Hmmmm?
ZIG