I got tired of going to 3 or 4 different threads so I figured that we could start a thread. I would like to see the "electric" racing grow and feel that the lipo/brushless class might be part of the answer. I know cola has shown us at Medina that a BL/lipo truck can be fast, fun, and an alternative to gas for racers that want to run long electric mains.

This is what Columbus electric director has come up with:
1) LIPO will not be run in stock class. stock will stay with ROAR battery rules. at this time we will allow the 13.5 brushless system if it starts showing to much of an advantage we will put a gear requrerment on it. OR like carpet guy's call it a roll out rule.

2) lipo will be allowed in mod class. along with brushlees. So if you have a 3.5 brushless and you can control the power bring it on.

3) we will stay with 5 min mains through out the points series after it is over then It will be my suggestion to go to 7 min mains for stock and 6 min mains for mod.

I agree with most, one thing that I would change would be to have 5 min. qualifiers and 10 min. mains. I'm sure if we come up with a game plan and show it to the track owners, they would be more than happy to do it.

One thing I don't want to see is to run to many different classes, then your thining everyone out, and will run into time constrants. So we need to come up with classes that will be far to all, but will also let lipo/brushless move forward. Let me know what you guys think.

Mike

Good points Mike! We really don't need a seperate class for bl and lipo. If main times changed, I don't see why a matched 4200 battery and a hand wound mod motor couldn't make 10min. It would be cheaper to run a lipo compaired to a matched battery because all you need is one battery, unless you don't have a charger that is lipo compatible then it would get a little pricey. I hope we can get some more people to run electric this summer. :)

Thanks,
David

Thanks for starting this thread Mike!

Here is my take on it. I am all for longer mains. And David brings up an excellent point, 4200's with as hand wound mod motors should go 10 minutes. But, will that setup do it more than once? I don't know, probably will but I know that most of the mod guys I have spoken to (brushed motor mod guys) did NOT want longer mains because of wear and tear. This was last season so maybe this season will be different.

I stand by my thought that this needs to be an all or nothing type of thing. If a person does not have the 4200's and cannot run 10 minutes forcing that person to run longer would not be fair (as Mike pointed out this needs to be fair for all).

I hope Jason M. and some others will chime in on this as they have a lot of experience with this type of thing. From my point of view making the electric mains longer like the gas mains would be awesome. Not to mention more fair from a cost point of view (the electric racer pays the same entry fee as the gas guys do). As a matter of fact I was THINKING and I stress the thinking part, about adding an additional qual (4 total) for the electric guys to help even out the track time. This would require that the electric mains be run last though so everyone would have time to charge their batteries for the mains. So I am not sure how running electric last would be recieved. Although I am SURE to people that live around the track would like it!

I too hope for a better turnout for the electric classes this year. I hope the Open format will help. We tested this concept last year and yes Mod does have an advantage (with the right driver) but a good driver with a stock motor could run right up there with the mod guys. I know Wayne and Jason have both told me they like 19t instead of mod most days (unless the bite is WAY up). And if it becomes too unfair we will look at putting a stock class back in place.

I will end by saying I think Brushless motors and Lipo batteries are the life blood of keeping electric racing alive and Medina R/C Raceway will support any racer that chooses to run them!

As always if you guys have ANY question please feel free to ask. I want to make sure I do my part to help EVERYONE have a good time racing!

Chris

I currently don't have the abillity to charge lipo but I have seen the benifits and will be upgradeing soon. I am all for the new technology. It is not out of the price range it is very close to the current "old school" stuff. Losi even sells a RTR brushless truck so even the new guy can get in with out loosing an arm and a leg.

This is what I was looking for. Not saying that if you don't run BL or Lipo that you can not run the class. I think you can run Nimh and a mod motor and still make it. It would be to your advantage in the long run to run BL/lipo because of the wear and tear on equipment. With the longer mains it might even start to end up like gas truck were you only have 2-3 out of a main finish. But as in 1/8 scale keeping your stuff together is part of racing.

Here is my thought on classes:

Novice-As stated-5 min. qual., 7 min. mains

2wd stock- 13.5 BL, NO lipo, Nimh, stock motors, 5 min. qual., 10 min. mains

Stock Truck- 13.5 BL, No lipos, Nimh, stock motor, 5 min. qual., 10 min. mains

Pro 2wd-4wd- any brushless, lipo, Nimh, mod. motors, 5 min. qual., 10 min. mains

Pro Truck- any brushless, lipo, Nimh, mod. motors, 5 min. qual., 10 min. mains

Again, I wouldn't want to thin the electric guys out to much, so we would have to see how it goes. But we do need to set down some standards before the season begins and not frey from this. Some racers will have to understand that an equipment change might be needed to be competitive. I wouldn't want it to be like last year were we are deciding on the forum what everyone wants to run (19T, stock, mod., etc.) the week before the races. If you know what the classes are going to be then you can prepare for the season on what class you want to run.

Mike

I'll chime in on this with a couple of points.

1. I agree with longer mains to a point. I think 7 mins should be the max. for reasons of battery. (I have 3800's). Also for the reasons Chris mentioned about wear 7 tear on motors.

2. I see what you mean about to many classes thinning things out. But, I don't see how you could tell someone thay can't run X class. If there are enough to make a class, it should be run. Number for the class is determined by the race official. Don't think you can change the current system. I WAS just thinking about the old days when you had 4wd & buggy only!

If my Turmoil doesn't sell I'm thinking about a 1/8 electric conversion. That class is coming as well. Rick A

One thing I forgot to mention,

Just as in Gas racing only the A's would be longer the B's down would all be at 5 minutes.

There is a bigger problem than just thinning the classes out....we have an 11:00 deadline to get all the racing done. So if we have 3 extra heats becasue of additional classes plus longer mains we are going to run into time problems. Last year we were normally done by 9:30 - 10:00, 3 additional heats and long mains puts us over the deadline even starting a 1/2 hour earlier than we did last year. Starting even earlier is not a good option as some of our regulars are going to have a hard time getting there at 3:00 as it is, we just can't move it up any more.

We will be running 12 cars in the qualifiers to help minimize the number of heats but this will not help the total number if we get 3 extra classes that only have 4-6 entries.

Great idea getting the classes sorted out before the season starts! I thought that everyone had agreed on the Open class idea as I never heard anyone say otherwise. So I think all that is left to decide is the length of the mains!

Chris

Open is fine we just need to push for the 10min A main!

Great points Rick. Let me reply to some of them:

1. Running 7 minute mains defeats the whole purpose of moving the electric class forward. If we are going to do this then you have to split up the guys that only have 3300's to run together and then a class for 3800's, etc. In gas there is such a wide variety of .21 motors but we don't split the class up. And we don't change the class because someone has a stock 3 port compared to a modded 5-7 port.

I'm not saying to turn anyone away. As you stated the track director can make the call if he has a racer that's wants to run 19t with 3800's in there truck.

We can make the stock classes just 7 min., this would help with the time constrants and wear on the cars/trucks.

If need be you can run the stock together and the pro together this would also help with time.

2. We don't want to turn anyone away, we just want to show what the new technology can do for electric racing.

Chris- time for qualifiers and mains should be the same as in gas for the pro electric classes. 5 min. qual. 10 min. A mains, all the rest 7 min. mains.

Rick. Aren't you running the 5800 in it? With that motor and a 3800 you should easily be able to run 15min with it. I have run 10min with my 6.5 and a 3300, so I don't think you will have any problems with run time.

I guess my 3800's will run awhile with my brushless. I need new batteries. My 3800's will only take 3500! lol

How long will a 3800 run with a brushed modified?

Chris- time for qualifiers and mains should be the same as in gas for the pro electric classes. 5 min. qual. 10 min. A mains, all the rest 7 min. mains.

Mike, we run 5 minutes lower mains for the gas classes. However, normally the 1/8 scale and Arena Truck A's are 15 minutes. We cut them short (5 minute) if we run into time problems.

Chris

At Medina, 12 min tops.

At Medina, 12 min tops.

David I wasn't saying we should run a 15 minute pro truck main just pointing out the times we run now. Besides 15 minutes on a brushed motor would be a killer.

Chris

I know that my 13.5 is pretty fast and will run 20min. on a 3300!

I can be the test pig, I have 3300. 3800 brushed and brushless. We will have to run some timed test runs.

I can be the test pig, I have 3300. 3800 brushed and brushless. We will have to run some timed test runs.

Thanks Doug,

Keep an eye on comm wear. Oh and it would be great to see if/how much the laptimes drop off on the brushed motor compared to the Brushless. That data would be really helpful in determining the main time.

Chris

David I wasn't saying we should run a 15 minute pro truck main just pointing out the times we run now. Besides 15 minutes on a brushed motor would be a killer.

Chris

I was talking to Rick about how long you can run a 3800 and a mod motor.

I was talking to Rick about how long you can run a 3800 and a mod motor.

Oh......then never mind........you will now be returned to your regular programming.....

trouble maker!

I plan to run 4wd and 2wd truck. I have the bl in the 4wd and it runs for a long time, but at 10 minutes, the 4200's are hotter than the motor! I do like the open format, maybe we'll need a pit stop if you only run 3300! I am going to get a bl/lipo for the xxxt, so any promotion of the electric class would be great.
see y'all soon

Can't wait to run with you again Jeff.

I Can't Wait For The Dirt !!!!!!!!

Oh, and it will be fun getting lapped by you again Doug.

and again

I plan to run 4wd and 2wd truck. I have the bl in the 4wd and it runs for a long time, but at 10 minutes, the 4200's are hotter than the motor! I do like the open format, maybe we'll need a pit stop if you only run 3300! I am going to get a bl/lipo for the xxxt, so any promotion of the electric class would be great.
see y'all soon

When I ran 4wd last yr. the same thing happened to me. I would literally melt the weld off the comm cause it got so hot. But I figired out a good setup, gearing, and a pace that would finish the race and put me in front and not destroy my equipment.

I think this is going to part of the whole thing. You have to run at a pace that will make you finish at the end. When I ran 1/12 scale and we were running 1700's you didn't have the advantage that you have now. I'm sure Chris and others that have ran gas can chim in, you know you can run for 7,8,9 min. before you have to come in and pit, but if you can tune your motor and set a pace that you can make 10 min. that's one less stop which might help at the end.

This is all going to be experimental at first, but we'll all learn off each other and it will be a lot of fun when we get it figured out.

I hear you Mike. That is why I said my 13.5 can run 20 min. I am willing to bet I can run just as many or more laps with it than a mod.

I'm sure Chris and others that have ran gas can chim in, you know you can run for 7,8,9 min. before you have to come in and pit, but if you can tune your motor and set a pace that you can make 10 min. that's one less stop which might help at the end.


well if you can settle in and just drive , you can save your motor for when you actually need it.... i noticed this in the last race i ran at... without mistakes you can find yourself ahead of the pack and then it is a matter of using judgement and self control to conserve fuel... as chris says " i was only using half-throttle while your were behind me!! :freak: "

However mike you are almost forcing the not so experienced racers to pony up the cash to get into a BL combo instead of a RTR situation ... so this will ultimatly divide the class... stock and mod once again....
this is where gas has the advantage cause fast guys could take a stock RTR .21 and compete with good driving and beat guys with a modded whatever...

gas will run for a minimum 6 mins.. unless you cant tune.. will this be the same for electric stock cars and mods running at the same time in the same heat/ class ???/ i dont know i am not a sparky !
just a curious thought
b

I am so glad to see the electric guys trying to get this going. I said a long time ago to start a electric thread so more would see it. I race nitro only but have some electrics. I started in electrics.
You guys seem to have only a few problems with what you classes will be. I hope to see you guys get it working and come out to medina more often this summer. There were several electrics running at Bumps today also and they were doing just as good as the nitros.
Keep up the good ideas guys.

Losi Makes A RTR Brushless Xxxt That Is Cheaper Than Buying A Pro Kit And All The Electronics.

Losi Makes A RTR Brushless Xxxt That Is Cheaper Than Buying A Pro Kit And All The Electronics.
ok so the manufacturers seem to understand the progress of technology ,,,,,, that is good and will help entry level drivers .....
one ??? why doesnt ROAR accept BL ?? :tongue:
b

They actually do except Brushless. Now Lipo...that another story!!!

They are even talking about, or have made Lipo's in transmitters illegal. Seems like they better ban cell phones in the pits then too!!!!

Someone in ROAR didn't get their payoff. Plain and simple.

They actually do except Brushless. Now Lipo...that another story!!!

whoops .... ok so it is a political thing.... they have no companies willing to kickback for them ?? Why not start another sanctioning body? one with better values for the racers , not the manufacturers!
b

Someone in ROAR didn't get their payoff. Plain and simple.
Dave, roar has already been payed off by ernie provetti he is the owner of Trinity. Which is why lipos are not legal per roar rules. Just a thought.

It would be cool if there was a way you guys could run triple A mains.

what do you mean hess.... triple A ....

Run 3, 5 minute A mains with a point sytem.

Dave, roar has already been payed off by ernie provetti he is the owner of Trinity. Which is why lipos are not legal per roar rules. Just a thought.

I understand that "ernie" payed them off part...But why are they not legal then? I don't understand that part. Does'nt Trinity have lipo's ? If so whay if he did his thing are they not legal??

Run 3, 5 minute A mains with a point sytem.
OIC :thumbsup:

Dave, trinity does not sell lipos and they are the biggest importer of batteries.

B- I think we will always have a stock and mod class, we can not get away from that. What I don't want to see is the racer that is still running a 27 turn stock motor with 3300's get made and not come back because he has to race in the same class with someone that is running a BL setup. As you know there are plenty of racers out there that feel they have to have more HP to win. So they'll go get a $400 .21 motor and be in worse shape than before.

Again, this is all going to be new, and if the BL in stock class is to much of an advantage we can go from there.

Hess, you type faster than I, and you are correct, Trinity and few others have a warehouse full of batteries and they are not going to dump them to except lipo. I worked in the RC industry for about 8 yrs. and I seen it happen first hand. I think that's part of the reason we have the Pro Series and the JBRL series out west. These guys are thinking "out of the box".

Mike

Thanks for the good explanitation.

Brushless stock does not have an advantage over brushed stock. I n stock truck in Ashtabula a brushed motor wins almost every week. I choose to run brushless because I run more than one class and don't have time to tear motors apart and I don't touch my truck during the week. They are fast every time you run with NO maintenance.

As you know there are plenty of racers out there that feel they have to have more HP to win. So they'll go get a $400 .21 motor and be in worse shape than before.


Mike



:cool: you pointing at me ???!!!!!!!! lol :wave:

I'm sure he wasn't talking about you Bryan!!!!

I heard threw the grapevine that someone got a Sirio so they could be like Ryan. They felt they weren't fast enough with there 3 port.........now if I can just remember who it was?????????????

That guy is going to be OUT TO LUNCH this season!!!!

Oh, and they weren't $400.....LOL!!!!

OK fellas, lots of good discussion on the electric class! This is what we need! As far as electric class rules/run times this summer, here is my opinion:

Brushless motors are definitely becoming more popular. The 13.5 is a great motor, and in my opinion performs extremely close to that of a well tuned stock brushed motor........up until the 7 min. mark! At this point, the brushless has a clear advantage simply due to its efficiency and lack of drag. More and more people are recognizing the advantages of investing in a brushless system if they are going to race. With that said, the 13.5 should definitely be allowed in stock class racing, but only with currently legal batteries up 4200mah (NiMh). Qualifiers should be 5 minutes, A mains should be 7 min. This will ensure that racers who still prefer brushed motors, or those who do not have brushless yet, will have as fair competition as possible. If there is not enough of a turnout to seperate stock & mod classes, the "Open" class is a great idea, but we should still stick to the 5 min. quals & 7 min. mains. An extra (4th) qualifier is great if time allows!

I am all for pushing racing forward with the new technology. I ran a brushless system for the first time today at Columbus & LOVED IT! I think as people realize the benifits, this class will become huge. Same with Lipo, just not as quick as the brushless transition. Let's just keep in mind, as we move electric racing forward with new technology, that the most important thing is keeping PEOPLE in the hobby. This may require smaller "baby" steps, rather than leaps & bounds. Let's not forget about the average guy just coming to have fun with the brushed equipment that he already has! If he has fun & comes back, he may bring a friend next time!

We should all make an effort this year to get at least ONE new person involved in our hobby! Bring them to the track to show them how much fun this stuff really is! THEY WILL BE HOOKED, JUST LIKE US! Just don't let their significant other know how much they spent!!!!:lol:

The weather was great today......is it opening day at Medina yet!

See ya!
-Jason M.

Jason, great stuff, this is what we need. Just to recap this is a thought for classes:

Novice-As stated-5 min. qual., 7 min. mains

2wd stock- 13.5 BL, NO lipo, Nimh, stock motors, 5 min. qual., 7 min. mains

Stock Truck- 13.5 BL, No lipos, Nimh, stock motor, 5 min. qual., 7 min. mains

Pro 2wd-4wd- any brushless, lipo, Nimh, mod. motors, 5 min. qual., 10 min. A mains, all others 7 min.

Pro Truck- any brushless, lipo, Nimh, mod. motors, 5 min. qual., 10 min. A mains, all others 7 min.

I think this is a good progression for anyone. If they are just starting out, they would be in the novice class. Then they can progress from there.