As many of you know, I am completely new to this hobby. (If you didn't know this already, I'm sure this thread will prove it.) :)

A forum member here (Mking) was gracious enough to send me some cars and controllers on loan, so I could check them out, and hopefully get a better understanding of the differences between them. I'm guessing that my "What's a pancake motor?" in another thread might have been the motivation that Mike needed to realize "This guy needs help!" ;)

Mike put each car in a baggie and labeled the baggie, so I would have an idea of what I was looking at. I then removed them all from their identifying baggies so I am now clueless as to what each one is. :cry:

http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/521/2294111280099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2294111280099980462YIrBYu)








Actually, I did not do that. I took a picture of each one before removal. My test at the end of this class will be to place them back in their proper homes without having to refer to the baggie pics.

http://inlinethumb05.webshots.com/3012/2150916990099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2150916990099980462PgTEae)

What I would like to do is post my observations of each car and have you all chime in with additional info, or to correct me where I go astray.

I know this will be valuable information to me, and hopefully there are others who can benefit from my real basic review and the the input from those in the know.

Reviews will start popping up soon.

http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/416/2645129440099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2645129440099980462sxXRmV)


Scaf

Cool....Like other things....we all have plenty of opinions... :cool:

Over the past couple evenings I have had a chance to give most of the cars a few laps around the track. Aside from one car that really grabbed my attention, the predominant factor that stuck in my mind was the differing sounds of the cars. They all sounded different then the Tomy/AFX Indy cars I have been running. It was a nice change for the ears, and one that, at this point in my hobby, I believe will play a factor in what cars I choose to run. Some seemed to amplify ever little fault in the track layout, clacking at many track joints, and even though they may be fast, the sound diminished the enjoyment. Others seemed to simply whir around the track, and were a pleasure to listen to.

Tonight, I decided to concentrate on a car for analysis.

As I believe is normal practice when doing this, the procedure is to flip every car onto it’s top, and then see which car rights itself first, to determine which car is to be run first.

http://inlinethumb47.webshots.com/2670/2663778920099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2663778920099980462jRRzWe)

The Tyco HP2 made a strong move, but it was the (2) Tyco 440x2’s that virtually tied in righting themselves.

http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/2959/2098665840099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2098665840099980462KDERbf)

(I had to go to my baggie pics in order to identify them.)

http://inlinethumb59.webshots.com/1338/2776151250099980462S200x200Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2776151250099980462KQFVFl)

http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/937/2169157360099980462S200x200Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2169157360099980462urFbjv)

Aside from the baggie info, the note from Mike also told me the Lexan covered car was a ‘racing’ chassis. I went to my Tyco reference book by Dan Esposito, and confirmed the Indy style car as being a Tyco 440x2 chassis (car 40 on page 35), but did not find a ‘racing’ chassis in the book. I’m guessing therefore this is a customized version of possibly the same chassis.

I started by racing a few laps using the Indy car and my 45ohm Parma. The sound was nice, and the magnetic traction was enjoyable. Maybe not as much magnetic traction as the G+’s, but it was a very fun car to run. The Tyco 440x2 chassis is one I have often seen mentioned in forums and on the bay, and from this experience, it is one I will definitely consider for future car purchases.

I decided at this point to hook up one of the controllers that Mike had sent me, and see if I could tell a difference. I chose a Parma with a 90ohm resistor, that also had a switch to select between 70, 80, and 90ohms.

http://inlinethumb32.webshots.com/1055/2333547520099980462S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2333547520099980462itDSWC)

Set at 80 ohms, I ran a few laps, and was able to notice a difference. I was able to use much more of the trigger travel as I ran the car around the track. With the 45ohm, I was probably using about ¼ to ½ inch of travel, save for some faster blips, much like the G+’s. With the higher ohm controller, I was moving the trigger much more, giving more detail or control at different speeds. It was taking some getting used to though, since I had already developed a feeling with the 45ohm unit. I deslotted a bit more with this controller.

And then, after what seemed like a fairly benign deslot, the car stopped performing like it had. I was having to give much more power to get it to move, and it would frequently just stop. After a few bumps to get it going, it finally just stopped altogether. No power to lane. After some troubleshooting, I realized I had blown the in-line fuse on the controller wire. I’m glad the fuse blew before I damaged the controller, but it is making me wonder if the 5A slow-blow fuses I put at each station are properly sized, since this was a 1A fuse on the controller.

I put the Indy car on a different lane, went back to the 45ohm controller, but the car was still not running normally. It was stalling out constantly. I set is aside for the moment, and ran my G+’s to compare. They were running normally, so I gave the other 440x2 a run.

Oh…My…Gosh!

This ‘racing’ version of the same chassis hauls butt!

For reference, my average lap times with my G+’s are just under 8 seconds. It takes a bit of work to get up to that, and on a rare occasion I can drop a lap time under 7 seconds for a single lap. With this lexan covered 440x2, I was mid 7’s at the start, mid 6’s after a few laps, and for the first time ever dropped in a lap under 6 seconds!

Plus, it sounds awesome!

I flipped the two 440x2’s over on my table to compare them.

http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/3113/2225546240099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2225546240099980462mmhXkG)

http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/3340/2667819370099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2667819370099980462WoZPOn)

The green motor jumped out at me right away. I have heard mention of green motors, and I am guessing this is a major hop-up. The shoes are also different, as are the rear axle gears, and then more obvious things like the front wheels, and of course the lexan body mounts. The magnets on the racing version are much more powerful then the other car also.

I have no idea which of the differences make the major difference in how it races compared to the other car. Maybe it is just the pink rear tires. In any case, it was a real treat to run.

One big thing I noticed on both cars was the spring for the shoes. It is not a spiral slinky spring like I am used to, but a bent wire.

http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/1715/2861989840099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2861989840099980462VBjNIB)

I then noticed that on the Indy car, one of the shoes was much more stiffer to compress then the other. I think something happened to the tension on the spring when I deslotted this car, and this then led to me burning the controller fuse. I don’t know how to fix the tension, and am reluctant to even take off the shoe to investigate it more. But something seems to have went astray here.

If you read all of this, I applaud you. I have (12) more cars to check out, but I don’t think I will be able to go into this much detail on them all. However, if you insist, I will see what I can do. :-)

Scaf

Great humor! I'm looking forward to more posts in this series Scaf.

We insist... :)

Half the fun is experiencing things for the first time,enjoy!
Chris

Great Job, I enjoyed this immensly.

My hats Off to Mike.......To not only send cars but also Parma controllers for a new guy to try out is really a fantastic gesture and a real opportunity for scaf to not have to take his "Hits" while learning.
If there were a Hobbytalk Medal for helping out a member, you certainly would have earned it !!(sure hope they were doubles, sounds like you may not get that 440X2 racing chassis back ......:) )

From JC O'Connels chassis pages:

http://members.aol.com/hifisapien/tycochas.htm

The TYCO 440-X2 Magnum Chassis (1983)

Original 440-X2 (narrow) Chassis version 1

In 1983 TYCO updated the 2 year old 440 magnum chassis ( maybe at AFX's pushing..they released had their Super G-Plus chassis in 1982). What they did was scrap the bar traction magnet used in the 440, and replaced it with two smaller but more powerful magnets on each side of the chassis similar to the configuration that the CHHP2 used. The result was fantastic. This chassis was simply the best ever at it's time of release in 1983 & remained on the top of the heap until about 1990 when the TOMY Super G+ chassis was unveiled. The 440-X2 is still the current top of the line TYCO chassis 13 years after it's release. A new 440-X3 chassis was planned for release in 1996, but it was cancelled or at least postponed indefinitely due to increased power requirements & safety concerns.

1. The stock Indy chassis has sucky tires. My bad, I didnt check it very closely. Its just a runner from my pit box. Wanted to give Scaf a chance to experiment with different chassis.



2. The "racing" chassis was an eBay! (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=1606754&mpre=http%3A//www.ebay.com)! purchase that someone did a pretty nice job on. Appears to be polymer motor magnets and polymer traction magnets, silver electricals, and a balanced racing arm. A very fast chassis, a bit faster than a stock Wizzard. I remember getting a pretty good deal on it, $30-35 or so.

The 3 position parma is from NJ Nosatalgia Hobby. On my home track I have magnatec braid, not rails (like Ed Bianchi's routed tracks)

http://www.horacepro.com/track.html

i am forever shorting controllers, so I put pretty low amp slow blow fuses in my controllers. lots easier to replace a cheapie fuse than a controller resistor.

my track looks alot like this:

Scaf: here is an easy upgrade to a 440X2. stronger traction magnets

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-SLOTTECH-POLYMER-TRACTION-MAGNETS-TYCO-PANTHER_W0QQitemZ320089233931QQcategoryZ2619QQssPa geNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Scaf -
this thread is great. As a relative newbie myself, I've only had a chance to run Super G+ cars with my stock tomy controllers, so this is pretty beneficial to people like me!
Continue with all the detail you can handle! :)

There are several "green" motors that are higher performance.

Aurora Tjets origianlly came with christmas tree arms (one pole green wire , one pole red wire, one pole orange wire) or orange wire/grey tip arms. these arms were 16 ohms or higher

Aurora then released a hop up arm with green wire that had a lower ohm rating. That started the "green" motor = high performance. Aurorar released other hopup arms as well, including a blue drag arm.

Mabuchi makes can motors that are used in artin, marchon, tomy, and tyco slot cars. the term can means the motor and brushes are encased in a frame, so you usually replace the can as a unit. the 440X2 and super G+ use a different design, where the arm and brushes can be replaced independently. the motor wire used in Mabuchi can motors includes gold, red and green. tomy motors are usually red wire, older tycos are gold wire (with some green wire motors), and marchons/artins seem to vary alot (ive seen gold, green and red). some people have a preference, believing that the green wire motors are better. i do not know if macbuchi ever planned to make different grades of motors using different wire. i do know the old tyco can motors and the tomy/artin/marchon can motors are a slightly different design, and the newer can motors in the tomy/artin/marchons are better motors than the older style can motor used in the tycos.

many of the chassis Scaf has to test use can motors, including: 2 marchon chassis (newer can motor), a tyco HP-2 chassis (older style can motor), a tyco HP-7 chassis (older can motor), an artin (new can motor), and a tomy turbo (new can motor).

the "green" motor in the racing 440X2 chassis has an aftermarket arm in it. aftermarket arms are usually marked some way to help differentiate them from stock arms. they can have anodized stacks, painted stacks, etc. different customizers use different markings. that motor just happened to have green stacks. i dont remeber the color of the wire; i am guessing red.

Ok....

Since Crimnick advises that you guys insist, I will try and review a couple more cars tonight. :) May have to do it with the garage door closed, because if my neighbor across the street sees me tinkering in there, he will bring over a couple beers and want to flat out race.

Staying with the 440x2's for a moment though, no one has commented on the shoe springs being different from what I am used to which are little slinky springs like the G+'s have. Are these wire springs common on more chassis' then just 440x2's?

One of the springs on the Indy style car is definitly (edit: at least I think the spring is the reason) putting more pressure on it's shoe compared to the other, but both springs still appear to be properly in place. Do you adjust these springs somehow?

I think this increased tension is what caused the car to first sputter (other shoe was not touching the rail because the too-firm shoe was holding the car too high), and then eventually caused the blown fuse (as I tried to fix the sputtering by....well.....giving the car more juice :) ).

A old Tomy pick-up spring trick,was to squeeze the springs between your fingers till they gave a little click,might be worth trying

Tonight I paired up two more similar chassis. These are Marchon chassis, and per the baggies, can be purchased for a bargain (like $4 each).

http://inlinethumb04.webshots.com/1923/2275656630099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2275656630099980462UHHXJi)

http://inlinethumb05.webshots.com/3012/2150916990099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2150916990099980462PgTEae)

Mike also advised that aside from different lexan bodies, (and stronger magnets on the red car), both chassis are PN# 22463.

http://inlinethumb17.webshots.com/720/2897050590099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2897050590099980462gGPiXr)

A couple things caught my attention on these cars when I started to really look at them. One was the screws that hold the lexan body’s on – they are attached from the top!

http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/473/2403233480099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2403233480099980462nfMxjM)

What’s up with that?! The rear one isn’t even centered on the car!

http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/992/2636289090099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2636289090099980462TPfvhi)

I don’t know much about Marchon, and don’t recall seeing them mentioned in forums like the other popular cars. Are they still around manufacturing HO cars? I could see this top-mounted thing being an issue with customizers utilizing their chassis product. I also have not been a fan of lexan bodies (although last night’s experience with the 440x2 racer did change that some), but these exposed screws are kind of a turn off.

Having said that, the cars told me that they weren’t here as part of a fashion show, and I should give them a few laps. So I did.

And I liked them.

I’m beginning to think that any lil car that allows me to race it around my track I am going to like. I know what you guys are thinking, and wanting to ask me.

"Yea, but how did they sound!"

Well, they sounded pretty good. A little clackier then the Tycos, and not as much whir sound, but they sounded good.

The cooler looking red car sounded a bit better I think, but I did not really notice a difference with the stronger magnets that is has, either when racing, or when doing my lift-from-track test.

http://inlinethumb38.webshots.com/2853/2851923040099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2851923040099980462FSNtcS)

A few other things I noticed about the cars:

The chassis are orange (nothing gets by me).
The shoes are wider.
They have can motors (sure, Mike mentioned this above, but I did also notice it).
The chassis is wider, and would require modifications to do an open wheel body.

In conclusion, the car seems ok. The body mounts may limit what you can do with it (Not sure what type of original bodies these puppies ship with). The price is affordable at just $4 each, which I like. If you cannot get a sweet looking body on it other then a lexan body, and not knowing what you can do performance wise with it, then you might be better off investing in a chassis that allows more flexibility. I’m starting to think that if you plan on using a lexan body, then the chassis should be a screamer, for if it is a marginal performer, it should at least look real good.

Next up (maybe even yet tonight) some thoughts on controllers, since I used a few different ones tonight on these Marchons, and last night's racing-chassis Tyco (Indy Tyco is still in the shop), and my Super G+'s.

Ohhhhmmmmmmmssssss

Ok....

Since Crimnick advises that you guys insist, I will try and review a couple more cars tonight. :) May have to do it with the garage door closed, because if my neighbor across the street sees me tinkering in there, he will bring over a couple beers and want to flat out race.

Staying with the 440x2's for a moment though, no one has commented on the shoe springs being different from what I am used to which are little slinky springs like the G+'s have. Are these wire springs common on more chassis' then just 440x2's?

One of the springs on the Indy style car is definitly (edit: at least I think the spring is the reason) putting more pressure on it's shoe compared to the other, but both springs still appear to be properly in place. Do you adjust these springs somehow?

I think this increased tension is what caused the car to first sputter (other shoe was not touching the rail because the too-firm shoe was holding the car too high), and then eventually caused the blown fuse (as I tried to fix the sputtering by....well.....giving the car more juice :) ).


The wizzard cars use a simular spring set up...with two arms instead of the single...they can be tweaked by hand as was mentioned..

Bear with me guys/gals - I warned you in advance I am new at this.

After posting the above, I was sitting here wondering how the lexan body on the tyco was mounted. So I checked it out, and now things are starting to click better.

The lexan bodies could have been mounted differently on these Marchon chassis, by adding lexan body mounts to the sides of the chassis, or even using velcro like another car Mike sent me.

Color me embarrassed for much of my post above regarding dissing the mounts of the bodies. Still, these chassis may not be good for custom non-lexan bodies (he says, pending more thought and yet another retraction).

Scaf

(dang...just when I thought I was getting good at these reviews)

i like these chassis, lotsa bang for the buck

to answer Scaf's question about stock bodys, stock marchon bodies tend to be very heavy and not all that pretty (ok the planes and monster trucks are cool)

http://cgi.ebay.com/MARCHON-MR-1-Slot-Cars-Collectors-Guide-Book-1988-1996_W0QQitemZ140092902027QQcategoryZ2619QQssPageN ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item140092902027

the top mounted screws may not look pretty, but are an easy mounting solution. the aluminum tubes on the tyco racing chassis are alot more work, even though they look better.

it was interesting that Scaf didnt notice much of a difference between the chassis, on my track the chassis with the aftermarket magnets is much faster (i guess magnatech braid has more magnetic attraction than tomy rails). i bet you would notice more of a difference on lifelike track.

btw, the screw holes on the marchin chassis were originally to mount a funky siren/light unit.

http://www.slotcarworld.com/Mar22463.jpg

One thing is for sure: There is a lot for me to learn about the various cars. I am just entering the learning curve, and there are some very basic aspects of the cars that have not been ingrained in my head yet.

How the bodies mount to the chassis is one of them. I got caught up last night on those screw posts, and I was actually wondering how a non-lexan body would look on the chassis, with a couple screws poking out the top. It didn’t dawn on me until later that the Marchon chassis is intended to take a clip-on body, much like the G+’s I have. Doh!

Mike’s photo above showing what those posts are intended for helps the picture become clearer for me.

Another interesting thing I encountered last night was that the red Marchon with the stronger magnets did not trip my lap timer. I ran about 10 laps with the car, and noticed not a single lap was counted. I put a different car on the same lane, and the laps started being counted. I need to do some more tests on this tonight to verify this. If I don’t mention it again, it means I was wrong.

I also want to post some thoughts on the controllers tonight or tomorrow. I am starting to better understand the different ohm ratings, and how the cars react with different rated controllers.

they have some ok bodies, their porshe carrera is nice.
I like their chassis slot to, real work horses that can take a beating

Marchn bodies will also snap onto a tyco chassis.. or at least a few of them that I have do.

Really enjoyable topic. I have zero knowledge beyond Aurora, and aside from my lone option - blindly buying stuff where it can be found - I would have no way to compare brands, chassis and modifications. Now I am peering under the few Tyco cars I have picked up and am understanding a little more.... Thanks!

Controllers

When I was researching tracks, I often read how the stock controllers received in the track sets were the ‘weakest’ part of the package, and that upgrading them would improve my enjoyment.

So I bought (2) Parma 45ohm controllers even before I built my track.

Below are a couple of links regarding controllers that I read over and over to try and understand, and from where I decided to go wiht the 45ohm units.

http://www.scaleauto.com/parma/recommnd.htm

“For those not familiar with the effect of ohms on the controller, just remember that fewer ohms means a quicker response and higher ohms means a slower response.” This is from the above link, and while it is very straightforward, it still had me confused. It seemed to say that if I could just decide what type of response I prefer (quicker or slower), I could choose my controller rating. I think it should have went on to say that the type of car and even your track layout need to be considered when deciding whether you want a quick or slow response, and why.

http://www.hoslotcarracing.com/Controllers.html

“A properly selected hand controller should allow your slot car to slowly creep away when the trigger is squeezed just a fraction of an inch. As you continue to squeeze the trigger, the car should accelerate in a linear fashion throughout the controller’s range. If your hand controller behaves more like and on-off switch then a variable throttle control you have selected a controller with too low of an impedance rating”

This is from the above link at Greg’s website, and this helped me to understand what I should look for in a controller.

If you are not familiar with resistors (as I wasn’t, and still possible am not), here is how I would describe what they do, and how they relate to our controllers.

The resistor burns up some of the power that otherwise would be going directly to the track and the slot car. Likewise, your car gets all the power less the power the resistor is burning off. When you just slightly squeeze the trigger and move the wiper to the tip of the resistor, the full rating of the resistor is in play. If you have a 45ohm resistor, then your car is getting full power less 45 ohms worth (may not be proper electrical speak, but I think it describes it). As you pull the trigger more, the wand moves down the resistor, and less of the resistor is being used, less power is being burned up, so the car gets more power.

Here are my experiences with a few different cars and some controllers that Mike lent me.


Super G+ and 45ohm


http://inlinethumb19.webshots.com/82/2695540110099980462S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2695540110099980462fTtYOf)
http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/871/2109004680099980462S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2109004680099980462vLZwZj)

This is a good match for my track. With a slight pull of the trigger the car creeps away, and I can creep it all around the track. I have the full distance of trigger travel to control the car, even if I can only really use half of the travel and keep the car on the track, except for some faster blips on the straights. Plus, I am already used to this controller with these cars.

With 90ohm:

http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/2952/2108063240099980462S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2108063240099980462IqxCeB)


Not a real good match. I have to pull the trigger about 1/3 of the way to get the car to creep. At this point it then works fine, and quite possibly is giving me more control of speed during the balance of the trigger travel. The problem I encounter is trying to quickly let up on the trigger the proper amount to get back to a slower speed I need to manage a corner. A lot more trigger movement is required in a very quick instant to maximize your speed. With the 45ohm unit, I am safe to let up completely, and then start my squeeze to get back up to speed. I could see however that some people may like the 90ohm better. I could also see that a 60ohm unit may be a good compromise between the two. Since I already have (2) 45ohm units, I will be ordering (2) more of same, and I should be happy with these and my Super G+’s.

With 35ohm Professor Motor:

http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/1003/2394713700099980462S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2394713700099980462SmsXZl)

This was too fast for the car at creep speed for the corners.

Autoworld ThunderJet (Box Stock plus silicone rear tires) and 45ohm

http://inlinethumb23.webshots.com/22/2043344580099980462S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2043344580099980462pTOUJc)

Not a good match for my track. The creep speed with this controller puts too much power to the car for my tighter corners. I have to bounce the trigger between off and creep to manage the tight part of my track. This will become even more of a problem when I start to tune-up the TJet and it becomes faster.

With 90ohm:

Much better match. I can creep the car with a slight trigger pull all around the track. A 60ohm controller might also be a decent match with this car, but I think the 90 could be the best. I only have a single TJet right now, and it isn’t tuned good, but once I add another and they start seeing some track time, I could see having to invest in a couple 90ohm controllers, or maybe at that point, I will be willing to upgrade to an adjustable unit.

With 35ohm:

Waayy too much speed at git-go.

Red Marchon (with better magnets) and 45ohm

http://inlinethumb55.webshots.com/1398/2430798390099980462S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2430798390099980462YvNzbn)


(update: I was able to feel the more powerful magnets after more test laps with this car when run on the same lane as the stock magnet Marchon)

This one surprised me. I would consider this car closer to the Super G+ then the TJet, and was expecting the 45ohm unit to be a good match. But, the creep speed was almost too fast for my tighter corners. The 90ohm controller let me get through more laps without a deslot in a corner. I have to attribute this to the magnets being less powerful then the Super G+. A 60ohm controller might be a good fit for this car.

Tyco 440X2 Racing Chassis and 35ohm

http://inlinethumb38.webshots.com/1701/2631319100099980462S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2631319100099980462ESiSsm)


The speed of this motor and the powerful magnets made this the best match, although the 45ohm unit also worked well. The 90ohm as you can probably imagine was not a good match at all.

I did test the ohm ratings of each controller. The 45ohm Parma and the 90ohm Parma were dead on. I could not get a reading on the Prof. Motor 35ohm electronic controller, and the stock controller ratings were bouncing all around between 200 and 1900 ohms, so something wasn’t right with my test here. In use, the stock controller did seem to be closer to the 45 then the 90, so the 60ohm rating I have read for it sounds about right.

In summary, I think I will be happy for now with the 45ohm units, since the majority of my racing is going to be with the stock Super G+’s. I do think the non-magnetic cars are going to become a part of the hobby for me, probably sooner then the real fast racing cars, so some 90ohm units will probably be a future purchase, once I get a few more TJets.

If someone who currently has Super G+’s and expects to move toward faster cars and/or also improving the traction of their Super G+’s, then a 35ohm or lower controller might be the best investment, or additionally if you are planning a faster track layout.

I initially wanted to find the ‘must have controller rating’ for my slot car hobby. I thought that the controller should be a ‘given’, and not a ‘variable’, and once I found it, I would move on to the other aspects of the hobby. I’m realizing now this is not the case, but more importantly, I am realizing that it is a good thing that it is so subjective and varying, and that your controller requirements can change as you change with the hobby.

It’s just another reason why this hobby can continue to be fun, and not something you can quickly master and burn out on.

A couple more car experiences to post.

First up is an older style Lifelike “M” Fast Tracker chassis.

http://inlinethumb48.webshots.com/2287/2481880390099980462S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2481880390099980462FOCZWq)

Running a larger style body on the track is a nice change of pace. This car ran very smooth and has a nice sound to it. It seems similar to the Super G+ Big Block Battler cars I have. There were a couple things I noticed about the car that hopefully Mike or someone else can explain. One is that the rear wheels spin much more freely on this car then any other I have seen. When you hold the car in your hand and turn the rear wheels, these wheels and the motor turn smoothly, and do not grab like other cars. I don’t know if this means anything ornot.

Another thing I noticed on this car that is similar to the Tyco 440X2 is the area circled in the following pic (faint red circles behind front tires, in front of motor).

http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/1556/2866702220099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2866702220099980462cpdXBw)

I’m not going to try and identify these parts, or what they do (because I don't have a clue), but this is a different design then the other cars I have seen. I'm talking about the round bars on each side if the motor shaft.

In summary, I enjoyed racing this car.

Next up are (2) Tomy Turbo cars.

http://inlinethumb46.webshots.com/2925/2068970160099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2068970160099980462xQijvZ)

The red car has red wheels, and aftermarket magnets. Aside from that (and the differing body styles) these cars are the same….or are they ?

http://inlinethumb04.webshots.com/2435/2684049300099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2684049300099980462UvEXdx)

I had much different experiences racing these cars, more so then I think the magnets and wheels would account for.

Both cars were a bit louder, more clackity then most of the other cars I have been running. Not bad loud, or annoying loud, just not the whir I have been experiencing with some of the other cars Mike sent. Both were fun to run, with the red car hugging the track better due to the magnets, and the Fast and Furious car requiring a little more trigger action to keep in-slot.

I ran both cars on the same lane using my 45ohm controller. What was odd was that I could creep the F&F car fairly slowly around the track, while the red car was a rocket as soon as it started to move. Granted, I was probably giving the red car a little more trigger to break it free from a standstill, but it didn’t seem like it was much if any. (…I’m going to run them again to check).

Same result. Both cars seem to start at nearly the exact same amount of controller trigger, but that red car definitely goes faster.

I started examining the cars for any differences, and found what I think are a couple, although they may be meaningless.

The areas in front of the gear, and behind the motor seem to be different. I have circled them in the following pics.

Fast and Furious Car

http://inlinethumb64.webshots.com/2431/2666965990099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2666965990099980462DmUyob)

Red Car

http://inlinethumb28.webshots.com/1371/2474019080099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2474019080099980462ilQcEV)

The red car is much more open in this area. Maybe this is just because the other car has magnets that sink down into this area, and the neo mags on the red car do not. Maybe the gearing is different?

Here is something else I saw, and again, it may be nothing.

F&F Car

http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/791/2535868790099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2535868790099980462HYjahF)

Red Car

http://inlinethumb43.webshots.com/362/2686437080099980462S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2686437080099980462CNtiuI)

You may not be able to tell it from the pics, but that little white plastic doohickey at top of motor shaft is different between the cars.

In summary, both are fun cars, but big difference in driving between them, even if it was just the magnets and wheels.

Quote:
"I’m not going to try and identify these parts, or what they do, but this is a different design then the other cars I have seen. I'm talking about the round bars on each side if the motor shaft."

Those are Brush tubes....they hold the comutator brush and brush spring....held in by a hex set screw...

Wizzards, BSRT, some tycos(440x2) and some AFX/Tomy cars (G+) use this design...

On high end super mag cars...changing these parts to silver is a speed upgrade...

On "restricted open" cars...you might even find a shunt wire soldered between the end of the pick up shoe and the set screw for a better flow of electricity to the brushes...

Brush tubes - Thanks for the info Crimnick.

I need to find a blowup detail of all the basic motor parts to get educated on them.

1. The magnet area: the more open space in the neo car is simply because the stock tomy turbo magnet is a pretty big bar magnet, with a notch in the top to give room for the gear shaft to pass over the magnet. i made the neo magnet custom by removing the bar magnet, glueing (using black max: basically super glue with rubber added to it, for more shock reisistance than normal superglues) plastic bar stock of the appropriate thickness to the chassis, and gluing neo magnets to the plastic bar stock. i did that modification several years before the Tomy SRT came out.

The Tomy SRT is a stock production chassis based on the tomy turbo, but where the turbo bar magnet is replaced with two samller neo magnets. much cleaner design than my modification, with about the same performance. I like SRTS, there are a very simple pretty high performance design.

2. The armature. I never noticed that before. I expect that is just a Mabuchi design modification to lower production costs without sacrifcing performance.

For Scaf to get the same amount of creep with the neo modified car, he would need a lower ohm controller. This is becasue the static friction of the neo magnet car is much greater than the static friction of the stock tomy turbo (w/ the F&F body). i cant remember, but i think i needed to use taller tires on the neo mod. taller tires move the traction magnets away from the rails, reducing static friction. for stock cars, a performance trick is to use the lowest tires possible (lowering the car so it doesnt drag on the rails, or just drags slightly). this gets the traction magnets closer to the track, increasing static friction and increasing cornering speed.

Scaf noted the rear wheels in the Lifelike turnjed freely, with little grab. I beleive that most of that is an indication that the motor magnets are weaker in the older Lifelike chassis. The stronger the motor magnets, the more they attract the metal stacks or laminations in the armature. that grab comes from the magnets "grabbing" the stacks as they pass by the motor magnets.

These inline armatures also have two bushings that support the armature shaft, in front of and behind the motor magnets. this Lifelike chassis also might be very well broken in, so there is minimal friction in these bushings. i beleive a performance tweak to the G plus chassis is to ream those bushings to reduce friction, but i have never done that.

Scaf noticed an important relationship between magnet cars and controllers. the stronger the magnet, the more power needed to overcome the static friction to get the car rolling. if you need 1/2 the trigger pull just to overcome static friction, there is not much control left for actual driving. so matching a controller to a car is important.

Electronic controllers use other components in place of resistors. The professor motor controller tested by Scaf doesnt have a resistor, and thats why Scaf had trouble measuring it. based on my experience with resistor controllers, i find the professor motor controller i sent to Scaf to be useful for Super G's, 440X2s, but not Tjets.


Many electronic controllers have dials where you can adject the sensitivity of the controller, letting you drive more different types of cars with one controller. however, i still havent found one elctronic controller that covers the range of say, 25 ohms to 120 ohms. a super strong modified magnet car does best at a low ohm controller, a JLTO or fray car does well at much higher ohms (110 and 120 ohm fray controllers are common).

Traction magnets really change how you drive a car and how you race it.

A traction magnet is an "extra" magnet, ie, a magnet that is not a motor magnet. cars with traction magnets include Tomy Tubros, Tomy SRTs, Super G+, HP7s, 440X2s, Marchons, Artins, LifeLike T chassis, and most Wizzards (Patriots and Storms).

Some cars without traction magnets have the chassis configured so the motor magents are not completely enclosed by the chassis, so the motor magents get close to the rail and provide some "traction" (attraction to the rails). These include Xtractions, Magnatractions (the first chassis designed to use motor magents for traction), Aurora G plus chassis, Amracs, and Lifelike M chassis.

Tjets, JLTO, TYCO Pros, and AFX chassis have the motor magnets pretty isolated from the chassis, so they provide little traction effect.

The more traction effect, the less forgiving the car is in turns. for a really strong magnet car, like the racing 440x2, your either glued to the track in a corner, or your flying off the track. you have very little feedback from the car as you approach the point in the turn where centrifugal turning forces become greater than the traction force. without any feedback, you need alot of practice to know just how fast you can go in a turn.

The less traction effect, the more feedback you get. For Tjets, JLTO, and even Xtractions, the rear end will start to slide in a turn, giving the driver feedback that he is approaching a deslot.

In racing, the amount of traction effect you have determines whether or not you can pass in a turn. At the fray (a Tjet race), you DO NOT pass in a turn. the car in front of you will be occupying part of your lane (or viceversa, if your inside of the car your passing) and when you hit the car in front, you will deslot, and the car in front will likely keep on going (tho sometimes the car in front also deslots). In a Super G plus race, you can pass in a turn, as each car will stay entirely in its own lane in a turn, until it deslots and flys off the track.