On several threads across hobbytalk and rctech there is arguing about brushless . Always having to buy the newest equipment to keep up . Be it a speedo of the month , the motor of the month , or the arm of the week . Brushless is adding up to be way more money than brushed motor racing ever costed me . Sintard arms at this track but not allowed at this one . Now looks like everywhere well have to use them . I see people putting new speedos and new brushless motors in the cars every month just to make a local Amain . Its killing racing at smaller tracks .

No offense but pretty much everyone is going to disagree with you. An arm is $30 and it will last you a year +. The BRL series is the most competitive brushless racing taking place anywhere and no one is putting in new motors for every race to make the mains and no one is replacing rotors every heat or any of the other junk you might have heard.

thats news to me i hope it doesnt happen to us. from everyone ive talked to that races it weekly for the past couple years loves brushless. less hassle and less expensive then brushed racing once you buy it initially. i guess if you blow a speedo up then yes it could cost more but ive seen alot ofpeople blow up brushed speedos also. in the long run i do hope brushless doesnt ruin racing thats for sure.

Guns don't kill people...PEOPLE kill PEOPLE...

BRUSHLESS doesn't KILL RACING - PEOPLE KILL RACING

It's more the "MUST HAVE" idea...and the "HAVE TO OUT DO THE OTHER GUY" mentality...it's happened the 20+ years I've been into R/C

From Batteries, Motors, Chassis, Tires, Bodies...and some people would have you believe it's the RADIO CHANNEL or the STRAPPING TAPE, or what ever that makes them faster...and if racers BUY INTO IT...then THEY have to have THAT product too.

On several threads across hobbytalk and rctech there is arguing about brushless . Always having to buy the newest equipment to keep up . Be it a speedo of the month , the motor of the month , or the arm of the week . Brushless is adding up to be way more money than brushed motor racing ever costed me . Sintard arms at this track but not allowed at this one . Now looks like everywhere well have to use them . I see people putting new speedos and new brushless motors in the cars every month just to make a local Amain . Its killing racing at smaller tracks .

U R WRONG!

briano,

I don't know if I would go so far as to say...he's

how did you put it???

WRONG

I have heard some tracks struggling on whether to allow brushless or not, and not sure how and what to do with them...

Thank you swttour . And belive it or not I dont hate brushless just the money part of it . I love not working my motors . And just working on my car that part is great . Something just wrong with all the money I am seeing thrown at it . Just to half to turn around and buy something else .

It's a shame it's hurting some tracks because it has really helped oval racing at many tracks and events all over the countrybriano,

I don't know if I would go so far as to say...he's

how did you put it???

WRONG

I have heard some tracks struggling on whether to allow brushless or not, and not sure how and what to do with them...

Cliff,

This is what I appear to see w/ B/L out our way just so far.

Late last year toward the end of the season I announced we'd have a B/L4300 class this season. We have a decent "Sportsman Modified" group, and several of the guys in that class mentioned they had planned to try the 4300 class. Along with those guys we've pretty much lost our 19t class in part due to all the 19t motor issues of last season and beyond..so MOST of those racers are also moving into the 4300 class.

We're going to have a really strong 4300 class for a good part of this season, but I'm afraid there will be several guys left scratching their heads wondering "What the HELL did I get myself in to" before seasons end.

I would like to add, WHAT EVER WE DO WITH BRUSHLESS - KEEP THE LID ON IT - KEEP THE RULES TIGHT - SONNY and the BRL has created a good starting point...LET'S NOT LET IT GET OUT OF CONTROL...or IMHO It IS going to get UGLY~

We have been running brushless for a few years now. Dirt track sprints, and pan cars.
Sprints can run any motor and be fast. We have been to tracks in Illinois. All have one thing in common. You can run a 5800 with a car that is hooked up, and beat everyone that has the 5.5, or the 6.5. You don't have to have the latest and greatest.
We have run our 13.5 motors in our pan cars all year. I had my best results after 14 weeks of racing. The motor seems like it has plenty left in it.
In my opinion, brushless is the future of racing made easy. Sure like not having to cut motors every couple weeks.

Jason

Brushed ....brushless what ever is raced I'll race it and for those who don't want to go brushless can get together and have a brushed motor class. Then there are racers like me and a buddy of mine. We each have a car for brushed and one for brushless ( well once I get my brushless system) and will race them when we can and where we can. I don't really see a problem with this once the dust settles we will more than likeey have classes for both motors. Those of us running brushless will be the ones grabbing ZZZZZ's between rounds and be all nice and rested for the round :D

Thank you swttour . And belive it or not I dont hate brushless just the money part of it . I love not working my motors . And just working on my car that part is great . Something just wrong with all the money I am seeing thrown at it . Just to half to turn around and buy something else .

Be more specific on what these expenses are. I have been racing 13.5 all winter and haven't bought a thing. Well other than the motor in the first place, obviously. I've been performing decent without buying anything.

Had I been racing brushed I probably would have gone through multiple motors and easily 30 pair of brushes.

Also, I was racing 4300 since it started and spent virtually nothing there so I'm not new to this.

I have bought 5 diffrent 13.5 . One greatly out preforms the other . Upgrade after upgrade since the 4300 came out . New rotor every two or three weekends in the 4300 before the sinterd came out . 6 New speedo diffrent brands since this started back when 5600 and 5800 motors were first out . Why even keep changing the motors . I can understand once a year but do you guys realize how many changes {upgrades}the 4300 has had this year alone . First you have to find a gem 4300 motor after buying four or five to find one that stands out then you have to go mod. it out . And do the same if you want another one for a back. Not to mention stay up with all the latest upgrades that come out every 2-3 months .

I have bought 5 diffrent 13.5 . One greatly out preforms the other . Upgrade after upgrade since the 4300 came out . New rotor every two or three weekends in the 4300 before the sinterd came out . 6 New speedo diffrent brands since this started back when 5600 and 5800 motors were first out . Why even keep changing the motors . I can understand once a year but do you guys realize how many changes {upgrades}the 4300 has had this year alone . First you have to find a gem 4300 motor after buying four or five to find one that stands out then you have to go mod. it out . And do the same if you want another one for a back. Not to mention stay up with all the latest upgrades that come out every 2-3 months .

Work on your car, you'll go alot faster then you'll ever be spending money looking for a "gem motor".

I bought 1 motor and 1 upgrade kit back in September, and have been running it all season!!

First you have to find a gem 4300 motor after buying four or five to find one that stands out.

I hear ya have to buy 10 or 15 and dyno them all to get a good one... :wave:

I hear ya have to buy 10 or 15 and dyno them all to get a good one... :wave:

So THATS what you do Frankie......p-r-e-t-t-y t-r-i-c-k-y.............

I have bought 5 diffrent 13.5 . One greatly out preforms the other . Upgrade after upgrade since the 4300 came out . New rotor every two or three weekends in the 4300 before the sinterd came out . 6 New speedo diffrent brands since this started back when 5600 and 5800 motors were first out . Why even keep changing the motors . I can understand once a year but do you guys realize how many changes {upgrades}the 4300 has had this year alone . First you have to find a gem 4300 motor after buying four or five to find one that stands out then you have to go mod. it out . And do the same if you want another one for a back. Not to mention stay up with all the latest upgrades that come out every 2-3 months .

I haven't heard anyone complain of that issue with the 13.5s. If you have one that performs well why did you buy more? This the third carpet season people have been racing 4300 and there have been 3 rotors and one necessary endbell upgrade to use the two newest rotors. Those are the only upgrades. Novak has had two speedos the GTB and the SS/SS+. The GTB has been out a year and a half and there is nothing outperforming it.

I'm sorry but I haven't seen anyone I know to be a fast racer saying it is necessary buy a bunch of motors to hunt down a gem. Most believe the motors to perform very evenly although the sweet spot for gearing seems to vary a little from motor to motor.

Like I said before I have been racing the BRL, which is the most competitive BL racing going and I have seen none of these issues.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this stuff isn't happening where you race, just that it isn't necessary and the racers doing it are mind F'ing themselves.

I hear ya have to buy 10 or 15 and dyno them all to get a good one... :wave:

I am pretty sure that's what Sully does so he can try to get faster!!!...

Dave D

I am pretty sure that's what Sully does so he can try to get faster!!!...

Dave D

Then it's been work'n cause Sully has been crazy fast lately, it sounds weird but he has been driving good too this season. :thumbsup:

Darkwing- You have me curious where is your local track? What is the largest class weekly?

Then it's been work'n cause Sully has been crazy fast lately, it sounds weird but he has been driving good too this season. :thumbsup:

We get to race with Sully weekly so we just think he is just CRAZY and not to sure about that driving either. I quote Mr Brown "an ace fighter pilot".

Dave D

"an ace fighter pilot".

Dave D

LOL....

Just ask Zubie and Makus about his kills....

I belive they are not all equal but alot more equal than one guy building a bad ass brushed motor and a newer guy building a so so motor.

It gets the new guy closer.

Spending a Grand or so to find one good motor thats has to be a joke :cool:

I am sure it will get out of control people just cant leave well enough alone.They just cant beat people they need to beat the piss out of them.

I guess I am just happy with having fun and brushless makes it easy.

Our track went to Brushless and now we can all run 2 classes with out alot of trouble.

Jake

LMAO Thanks Sonny,

Dave D

Just ask Zubie and Makus about his kills....

Speaking of Zubie, I had the pleasure to watch him try and race 1/12th onroad last sunday.... All i gotta say is people should of had to pay admission to watch the wheel skillz. It waz priceless!

Speaking of Zubie, I had the pleasure to watch him try and race 1/12th onroad last sunday.... All i gotta say is people should of had to pay admission to watch the wheel skillz. It waz priceless!


They call him Ricky Bobby

l :roll:l

They call him Ricky Bobby

l :roll:l

Zubies 1/12th scale looked alot like Ricky Bobby driving down the street blind folded.

Just ask Zubie and Makus about his kills....

Its like TJ & Terry say.......:devil: "you just got sullytized" :devil:

Me and Mike were talkin about making stickers for each time Sully got you, like an axe ur somethin. But we figured ur car would be covered up too quick.
Just Kidding Sully!!:thumbsup:

Hey MARK#10 - Are you still doing Vinyl?

Hey MARK#10 - Are you still doing Vinyl?

yep. Need somethin?

Not yet, but I'm going to be needing another 1/2 dozen sets soon...

You still using all the same info? (I've got the font templates saved someplace)

BTW: As far as motor consistence I would have to rate it as pretty good.

- Lets see Sean Cochran just one the Snowbirds he has 1 motor (I think he said he also ran the same pack all weekend)

- Frank has between 2-15 motors depending on what rumor you here. (I think it’s closer to 2) He has 2 BRL Wins this season

- Danny B might be up to two motors now (he has 1 BRL 4300 win)

- I have the Motor that TJ used to win the Novak race last year (it was mine and about 3 months old at that point) gave the same motor to a friend of mind for the Vinton race 2 weeks later, he missed the set up and ended up in the C. Added a sintered rotor and still use it today.

-At the birds this year I found myself in the racers trap of my car is a few laps off the pace it must be the motor. I bolted in my back up motor made some chassis changes and went a couple of seconds quicker. Gave the first motor to a friend of mine and he makes a run that was 2 laps faster and put him in the A.


Bottom line the motors are all pretty good it’s the chassis set up and driving that make the difference.

I haven't had the chance to run 4300 yet - I bought a 5.5 to run in our Sports' Mod class cause I too wanted something I didn't have to rebuild (Cause I REALLY Hate rebuilding motors) I haven't got it figured out yet, this coupled with a NEW KSG Gen2 car - I's gots LOTS of Figuring to do~but I'm looking forward to somethings getting easier.

Its all in the setup.. Two nights i ran i was two laps off the pace.. The other cars just had so much more rip out of the turns.. i instantley thought they had killer motors.. I worked on my setup, and by the 3rd round i had taken over tq, and won both days.. I did not touch the motor.. With brushless your cars efficiencey is so much more important.. Its like a shot of nitro..

I hated brushles to begin with, i liked building motors as well.. But now i dont have to lug around all the extra stuff, and i get to relax and chat more at the track.. i love it.. In our area our numbers have gone up 3 fold, and i hope they keep going. I have only heard of 1-2 people have any issues with there motors.. Most of the time it is a user fault.. People who have alot of wrecks seem to have issues as well. you can only bang on something so many times before it gives..

SWTOUR, you know it! Met one of your racers,Scot P, sounds like a group of good guys.

I am on my 2nd 4300 motor ever. The first one lasted 2 seasons on carpet and 2 outdoors till 106 degree temps outside got it a little too warm. Next motor, ran out of the package then added a sintered rotor and endbell. That puts me to a total of $175 for motors for 2 1/2 YEARS, NO WAY that could be done with brushed.No new speedo all the time either.

YES, I have dyno'd mine and all my friends motors, they were all within 2 watts and few hundred RPM difference.

If B/L isn't your thing, run what you want and have fun,those that are in the BRL and run weekly with B/L have a blast.

The only problem I have with brushless is the BRL! My fault, not theirs, I don't live in the midwest and I have only raced on carpet one time since 1989 and that was at the old Bolink track (big Daddy's). I think Bulit Bill was just throwing me a curve on the set up just so there would be at least one guy slower than him, lol. I will be happy if/when the BRL migrates southeast where we run on paved out door tracks and the only carpet is the one you wipe your feet on before you enter the hobby shop!:D I am still running my original 4300 motor (it was one of the first out) I am going to buy another one before the Daytona race, just because I am itching to buy something motorwise and shoot, who needs brushes?

I have bought 5 diffrent 13.5 . One greatly out preforms the other . Upgrade after upgrade since the 4300 came out . New rotor every two or three weekends in the 4300 before the sinterd came out . 6 New speedo diffrent brands since this started back when 5600 and 5800 motors were first out . Why even keep changing the motors . I can understand once a year but do you guys realize how many changes {upgrades}the 4300 has had this year alone . First you have to find a gem 4300 motor after buying four or five to find one that stands out then you have to go mod. it out . And do the same if you want another one for a back. Not to mention stay up with all the latest upgrades that come out every 2-3 months .

We've been racing brushless here in Michigan for 3 years now. The biggest thing that racers are having a hard time getting over when they first start is the speed difference in cars. IT'S NOT THE MOTOR. IT'S NOT THE SPEEDO. IT'S NOT THE HORSEPOWER.

People have a hard time accepting that their car is 2 laps off. I have been through this. Last week, I ran my backup car with a 1 year old GTB and a 2 year old 4300 motor. I had the fastest car on the track. It's not because everyone else was slow. I just hit on something with the setup. My "good car" with all the latest greatest stuff was 2-3 laps slower. A tire can be a lap. Moving the batteries can be a lap. Moving the LR tire can be a lap, and so on and so on.

The guys buying several motors and speedos are just trying to buy laps, when they should just be working on thier cars harder. The motor wars are over. I bet the guys that have 5 motors still don't have a "good one". Sure there is probably a little variances in the motors. I don't think it makes a bit of difference on the track.

Just my .02

Brushless motors are the single greatest thing to happen to oval racing in years. Put the motor in the car and go racing, spend time working on the chassis not building motors that don't even come close to the next guys on a dyno. Chassis set up is more important than the motor. If I knew then how much the chassis setup was worth I would have spent more time on that and not worrying about motors.

Dave D

I bought a (1) GTB and (1) 4300 set up "used" the first part of this winter. It had already been raced for a year by the previous owner. I have two packs of 4300's that I got new for the Oval Masters. I finished two seconds off (in 2nd) from the winner who just bought the 4300 system that morning and was using packs he got for the Birds. Both of us had the Sintered rotor. Our lap times were equal, he just drove a better line then I did. (He's young and I'm old LOL)

In my opinion, the brushless racing is going to quickly show who has been "buying" their way in and the ones that have been doing their homework.

I have bought 5 diffrent 13.5 . One greatly out preforms the other . Upgrade after upgrade since the 4300 came out . New rotor every two or three weekends in the 4300 before the sinterd came out . 6 New speedo diffrent brands since this started back when 5600 and 5800 motors were first out . Why even keep changing the motors . I can understand once a year but do you guys realize how many changes {upgrades}the 4300 has had this year alone . First you have to find a gem 4300 motor after buying four or five to find one that stands out then you have to go mod. it out . And do the same if you want another one for a back. Not to mention stay up with all the latest upgrades that come out every 2-3 months . THEN YOU ARE A FOOL!! BECAUSE IT'S NOT NECESSARY!!!

I have bought 5 diffrent 13.5 . One greatly out preforms the other . Upgrade after upgrade since the 4300 came out . New rotor every two or three weekends in the 4300 before the sinterd came out . 6 New speedo diffrent brands since this started back when 5600 and 5800 motors were first out . Why even keep changing the motors . I can understand once a year but do you guys realize how many changes {upgrades}the 4300 has had this year alone . First you have to find a gem 4300 motor after buying four or five to find one that stands out then you have to go mod. it out . And do the same if you want another one for a back. Not to mention stay up with all the latest upgrades that come out every 2-3 months .

I can't imagine what you spent on brushed racing...:rolleyes:

I'm not sure what else can be said here but,
The main reason we have huge turnouts for the pancar classes at the tracks I race at is solely because of BL. I would not be racing pancars if it were not for BL.

We also have BL buggies, trucks, touring cars, and 1/18 scale.

McLin said...
In my opinion, the brushless racing is going to quickly show who has been "buying" their way in and the ones that have been doing their homework.

McLin has a good point. Just because you can afford a BL setup does not mean you are going to be fast. You still have to set it up and then wheel it.

McLin, let's not bring the LiPo thing into this conversation, yet.:D

saturday I ran a brushless for the frist time, 4300 with rotor and endbell, dam it was quicker than I expect, also ran open mod the same day with a second car.

4300 bolted motor in ran it 6 times, mod replace motor each run, 6 times, adjusted gear for each motor and spent Sunday cutting arms,

4300 was fun and relaxing, best thing since having a personel motor guy to do all that stuff, will work on setup every run, priceless!!

McLin-

That was a great race the other day. Your motor that was over a year old was great. You were not that far off. We still need to find out what Jamie Hanson is doing though. That guy is "bad fast"!!

Joel White(the young guy mentioned above)

Sonny,

Can you tell me the difference between the stock 4300 motor and the sintered motor? Im new to this brushless thing and I wanna run it at the Arcor open, but I didnt know if there was a difference? Thanks again!

Mario

I feel like it depends on the area that u are in if it has hurt or not. I feel like it has hurt down here but has helped up north.

Sonny,

Can you tell me the difference between the stock 4300 motor and the sintered motor? Im new to this brushless thing and I wanna run it at the Arcor open, but I didnt know if there was a difference? Thanks again!

Mario

Mario the sintered rotor is an upgrade to the original 4300 motor (NOV3401).

As you may know the 4300 motor has been around for about 3 years, over time the magnet in the original rotor would degrade due to heat build up. Most racers just added a fresh rotor every season for about $27.

This year Novak developed the sintered rotor that was stronger for there high powered modified motors. It was also about the same cost. The magnet was much better and had the added benefits of being able to withstand higher temperatures without degrading and also running at a much cooler temps. (Eliminating ESC thermal issues)

It’s a little torquer than the original rotor but a lot more efficient. Lap times don’t fall off so they do run faster overall. It’s debatable how much but most feel is as little a 2 seconds to over a lap at some places.

So the short answer to upgrade a 4300 motor you should order (NOV5923) which will get you the sintered rotor and larger bearing cap that is needed.

Soon you will be able to order a 4300 motor complete with Sintered rotor. That would be the new PRO 10.5/4300 motors (NOV3410). Long term this should make it much easier and less confusing for racers to get involved with brushless.

Thank you swttour . And belive it or not I dont hate brushless just the money part of it . I love not working my motors . And just working on my car that part is great . Something just wrong with all the money I am seeing thrown at it . Just to half to turn around and buy something else .

I'll tell you what I went brushless and have actually saved money. I sold all my motors, brushes, all the stuff to break in the motors and the stuff to adjust and make the motors faster, and yes the speed control to and bought a new brushless speedo, motor, sintered arm and upgrade endbell and still had money left over to buy other things. So You say the initial cost is high but it actually isnt just sell all your brushed stuff and plus you will have more time to work on car and talk to more people.