Hey guys,

I have a few questions about this brushless stuff. Seems brushless could be the wave of the future so I've decided to get on the band wagon. I have a few questions that already may have been asked but I hate to read through hundreds of pages so any and all help would be appreciated.

1. Gearing differences between 13.5 brushless and 27 turn stock?

2. Gearing differences between 4300 brushless and 19 turn?

3. Speedo profile settings?

4. Drag brake.........yes or no?

5. Has anyone programed a GTB profile for oval racing?

6. Does more timing really help? (4300 and 13.5)

7. How many licks does it take to get to the center? (of a lolly-pop) lol

Hey guys,

I have a few questions about this brushless stuff. Seems brushless could be the wave of the future so I've decided to get on the band wagon. I have a few questions that already may have been asked but I hate to read through hundreds of pages so any and all help would be appreciated.

1. Gearing differences between 13.5 brushless and 27 turn stock?
A: I have not run this motor

2. Gearing differences between 4300 brushless and 19 turn?
A: I would say more gear, keep going up until motor comes off @ 145 deg

3. Speedo profile settings?
A: Wide open!

4. Drag brake.........yes or no?
I run a 305" outdoor track, we don't run it.

5. Has anyone programed a GTB profile for oval racing?

6. Does more timing really help? (4300 and 13.5)
I have not changed mine.

7. How many licks does it take to get to the center? (of a lolly-pop) lol
Dunno but a tootsie pop is 1, 2, 3, "CRUNCH"!!! 3.Not sure what type of track you are running on but I am sure you will get all sorts of answers from many different types of tracks

Not sure what type of track you are running on but I am sure you will get all sorts of answers from many different types of tracks

Thanks ECHE.........it's a start. I did not post track size because we will be running brushless on several different size tracks. So any and all info is needed.

1) a whole bunch more
2) A whole bunch more
3)leave it factory
4)no
5)you can program but really no need factory settings work great
6)yes and if someone says no then they really haven't got there car good!
7)who cares..lol

1) a whole bunch more
2) A whole bunch more
3)leave it factory
4)no
5)you can program but really no need factory settings work great
6)yes and if someone says no then they really haven't got there car good!
7)who cares..lol

Wow, lots of info here. lol lol lol Thanks Brian. You really don't like suckers huh! lol

1) Dont know
2) for reference most of the fast guys at Snowbirds were running 3.02-3.05 in 4300. I haven't race 19t in oval in so long I don't really know.
3) Factory profile.
4) Turn drag brake off, we don't even run it in mod it heats things up a lot more when it is on.
5)Like Brian said
6)If you had the choice to run 24* or 28* which would be faster??? It really does depend on your car to feel a difference.
7) Tootsie pops are delicious

Tony sorry my info was to detailed..lol

gear the 13.5 like a 21t then add more until when you touch the motor you say "whooo that's hot"!

Gear the 4300 like the 21t but don't add as much for you to say "whoo that's hot"!


When you say "whoo that's hot" you may be over geared a bit you have to then back it off if your times on the track don't show the improvement with the gear.

Some follow the method below!

Stack on the gear until the motor turns of from the heat with about 20 secs to go in the run then pull the blue wire out of the plug.

Bottom line is that you won't see a huge difference with a 1 tooth change. My car last week for 13.5 was rolled out .50 higher than someone else and my motor was cooler at race end so don't get caught up in what someone else runs just play with it and find what works for your set up. If you want a starting gear for either for a particular track size shoot me an e-mail and will put you in the ball park! brian@vannco.com

Hey guys,

I have a few questions about this brushless stuff. Seems brushless could be the wave of the future so I've decided to get on the band wagon. I have a few questions that already may have been asked but I hate to read through hundreds of pages so any and all help would be appreciated.

1. Gearing differences between 13.5 brushless and 27 turn stock?

2. Gearing differences between 4300 brushless and 19 turn?

3. Speedo profile settings?

4. Drag brake.........yes or no?

5. Has anyone programed a GTB profile for oval racing?

6. Does more timing really help? (4300 and 13.5)

7. How many licks does it take to get to the center? (of a lolly-pop) lol


1. Snowbirds size track about 3.20 roll out

2. Snowbirds sixe track about 3.00 (4 minute) 5 would be a little less)

3. Profile 1

4. No drag brake

5. Not needed

6. Not really overall speed but it does change your gear selection. (Those that think it makes a big difference should probably race against some better competition and prove it. FYI: Heat is not a great way to gear the car lap times are much better.

7. Depends on the flavor but Monti & Koback have already developed a hypothetical formula in which they have done it faster then anyone else.
(Note: they did have to spray first) :tongue:

Brian, you guys need to bring those 4300's down for the next Southern 500!

6. Not really overall speed but it does change your gear selection. (Those that think it makes a big difference should probably race against some better competition and prove it. FYI: Heat is not a great way to gear the car lap times are much better.

Agree, big difference, no, some difference, yes! Please name the fast guys you refer to that don't turn up the timing. Sounds like more of the same talk to me like the sintered rotor doesn't make you faster. You can be fast and even win without either but both will pick you up slightly. I am not talking laps. I am talking maybe a second or 2 over a run.

I guess we can just disagree.

Oh and the "whoo that's hot" thing was a joke sorry I forgot the "lol"

I like the motor hot and I don't look at lap times...Darn maybe that's my problem..lol

Oh wait no it's the driver that I am sure of!

The dreaded timing argument!

My conclusion, for what it is worth, is that the ideal timing varies greatly from motor to motor. On some motors 0 degrees runs the best on others turned nearly all the way up runs the best and on others it is anywhere in between.

That is why opinions on this topic vary so much. Racer A's motor runs the best at 0 degrees, for how he gears and sets up, so he says turning it up does nothing. Racer B's motor runs the best turned almost all the way up, for how he gears and sets up, so he says you gotta turn it all the way up.

So what's the best answer? Play with it and find out what works the best for your motor and your style. In the end The difference is pretty nominal, but at least you'll have the warm fuzzies thinking you've got yours in just the right spot.

Agree, big difference, no, some difference, yes! Please name the fast guys you refer to that don't turn up the timing. Sounds like more of the same talk to me like the sintered rotor doesn't make you faster. You can be fast and even win without either but both will pick you up slightly. I am not talking laps. I am talking maybe a second or 2 over a run.



Probably agree to disagree. I really don't think it makes any overall difference. Everybody plays with it a little but I would say most of the faster guys have come back to the stock setting.

I know Frank likes to bump them up but I don't really think that's why he's fast. His car works and he's up on the wheel right now.

Jamie Hanson would be a good example of someone who run a stock setting and is in pace. Also with the exception of the Birds this year my stuff is usually been pretty good and it's at a stock setting also.

I guess the good thing it it's easy to try so everyone can make up there own minds.

I just happy we have peopl;e taking about Brushless...

Hope to C-ya at the ROAR nats. :wave:

I agree! And will be there!

The dreaded timing argument!

My conclusion, for what it is worth, is that the ideal timing varies greatly from motor to motor. On some motors 0 degrees runs the best on others turned nearly all the way up runs the best and on others it is anywhere in between.

That is why opinions on this topic vary so much. Racer A's motor runs the best at 0 degrees, for how he gears and sets up, so he says turning it up does nothing. Racer B's motor runs the best turned almost all the way up, for how he gears and sets up, so he says you gotta turn it all the way up.

So what's the best answer? Play with it and find out what works the best for your motor and your style. In the end The difference is pretty nominal, but at least you'll have the warm fuzzies thinking you've got yours in just the right spot.

BINGO!

would you explain how to bump the timing on a 13.5 ?

would you explain how to bump the timing on a 13.5 ?


You'll notice a notched black plastic ring at the "endbell" end of your motor. Loosen the the 3 screws that hold the cover on the back of the motor and you can turn this ring. This adjusts the timing. Turn it counterclockwise to increase just like a brushed motor. What it does is moves the circuit board that contains the Hall chips that commutate the motor. Moving their postion relative to the rotor adjusts the timing. You cannot turn the ring all that much so when it stops moving don't force it.

If you want to know where the "neutral" postion is look at the back cover screw that is directly opposite the solder tabs. When the timing is in neutral position one of the notches on the ring will line up with this screw. It would be a mistake to call this 0 degrees technically. This spot is just about where the center of travel is.

WOW, thanks for all of the input here guys. I appreciate the "special" one-on-one about the gearing Brian, but I was just wanting some info for my TC.

I installed a GTB (w/heatsink, fan, and cap) with a 13.5 in my HD Assassin and man is this beast fast. Like Brian said "A Ton More" on the pinion vs. a CO-27. The fastest I went with my TC in stock was a 52 4:00 and last night I went a 54 4:03. The motor was only coming off at about 120-125 so I'm gonna keep adding gear until I hit the 150 range and/or lap times start to drop off.

With a CO-27 I was able to run a few 4.4's and would finish with 4.7's. With the 13.5 I was able to run a 4.3 and finish with 4.5's. I am running the motor with stock timing, stock speedo settings, the big "V" purple heatsink, ribbed endbell, velocity rotor, and 3 purple aluminum screws in the timing plate! lol.

I did re-solder my GTB with all 12 gauge wire. I had seen this make a difference at the Birds. Flipper was "Spanking" a well known BRL racer guy, and then this BRL racer guy rewired his GTB and started to spank Flipper. (poor Flippy) Big wire can tranfer more current, so just a little FYI if your interested in something to try. On a pan car make sure to have enough "loop" so the bigger wires don't restrick pod movement. I used GS (General Silicone) 12 gauge as it's big azz wire but very flexable.

Just as a side note, big thanks to Sonny Brown for all of the info hook up at the Birds. Pitting 2 rooms apart, well I was yacking his ear off all week. :)

Thanks Sonny, Brian, and the rest of ya'll for sharing your thoughts. I've been racing for almost 25 years and this brushless stuff is like starting over! I feel like an FNG, but man is it fun!

The dreaded timing argument!

My conclusion, for what it is worth, is that the ideal timing varies greatly from motor to motor. On some motors 0 degrees runs the best on others turned nearly all the way up runs the best and on others it is anywhere in between.

That is why opinions on this topic vary so much. Racer A's motor runs the best at 0 degrees, for how he gears and sets up, so he says turning it up does nothing. Racer B's motor runs the best turned almost all the way up, for how he gears and sets up, so he says you gotta turn it all the way up.

So what's the best answer? Play with it and find out what works the best for your motor and your style. In the end The difference is pretty nominal, but at least you'll have the warm fuzzies thinking you've got yours in just the right spot.

Where do you notice the on-track performance gains when you up the timing? More top end, more bottom end, cooler temps, etc?

1) Dont know
2) for reference most of the fast guys at Snowbirds were running 3.02-3.05 in 4300. I haven't race 19t in oval in so long I don't really know.
3) Factory profile.
4) Turn drag brake off, we don't even run it in mod it heats things up a lot more when it is on.
5)Like Brian said
6)If you had the choice to run 24* or 28* which would be faster??? It really does depend on your car to feel a difference.
7) Tootsie pops are delicious

More FNG questions. How does turning off the drag brake allow things to run cooler? Does handling change when doing this?

drag brake is controlled by electronis resistance. Resistance = Heat. The car rolls really free so your set up will change a bit.

Where do you notice the on-track performance gains when you up the timing? More top end, more bottom end, cooler temps, etc?

See my previous post about the timing.......

The dreaded timing argument!

My conclusion, for what it is worth, is that the ideal timing varies greatly from motor to motor. On some motors 0 degrees runs the best on others turned nearly all the way up runs the best and on others it is anywhere in between.

That is why opinions on this topic vary so much. Racer A's motor runs the best at 0 degrees, for how he gears and sets up, so he says turning it up does nothing. Racer B's motor runs the best turned almost all the way up, for how he gears and sets up, so he says you gotta turn it all the way up.

So what's the best answer? Play with it and find out what works the best for your motor and your style. In the end The difference is pretty nominal, but at least you'll have the warm fuzzies thinking you've got yours in just the right spot.

I did re-solder my GTB with all 12 gauge wire. I had seen this make a difference at the Birds. Flipper was "Spanking" a well known BRL racer guy, and then this BRL racer guy rewired his GTB and started to spank Flipper. (poor Flippy) Big wire can tranfer more current, so just a little FYI if your interested in something to try. On a pan car make sure to have enough "loop" so the bigger wires don't restrick pod movement. I used GS (General Silicone) 12 gauge as it's big azz wire but very flexable.

No offense, but I find it doubtful that wire guage was the difference between someone going from "being spanked" to doing the spanking. Comparing results from one heat to the next is dubious at best. I'm sure we've all had times where we've gotten a lap faster from one round to next without even touching the car.

But if it makes you feel good go for it!

No offense, but I find it doubtful that wire guage was the difference between someone going from "being spanked" to doing the spanking. Comparing results from one heat to the next is dubious at best. I'm sure we've all had times where we've gotten a lap faster from one round to next without even touching the car.

But if it makes you feel good go for it!

"Spankin" was a loose term, a difference in on-track performance was noticed. Just ask Sonny Brown............

Just as a side note, big thanks to Sonny Brown for all of the info hook up at the Birds. Pitting 2 rooms apart, well I was yacking his ear off all week. :)


WOW...Sorry to hear this Sonny!! I'll buy you dinner next time I see ya as I am sorry you had to be that close to Tony all week!

Hi Tony:wave:

EA

WOW...Sorry to hear this Sonny!! I'll buy you dinner next time I see ya as I am sorry you had to be that close to Tony all week!

Hi Tony:wave:

EA

Note to self: "Remove EA From PRS Team Driver List!"

Hello EA :( lol lol lol

More FNG questions. How does turning off the drag brake allow things to run cooler? Does handling change when doing this?

I'm not really sure about the technical aspests of how the BL motors Brake, but I know the first time I ran mod it got really hot, especially the speed control. plus it made the car do weird things. Turn it off the car rolled a lot more and things were considerably cooler. It seems the the BL motors especially with a sintered rotor have much stronger brakes than a brushed motor. For instance, I hit the brakes with the 3.5 to avoid a wreck and removed several teeth of the spur...lol That really at a lot to do with big spur/ little pinions we have to run but you can slow it down really fast when you need to.