I was wondering if anyone has came across any shady brushless stuff yet.

Just read a thread about a guy wanting to know how to advance a arm and made me think. :freak:

Jake

Well I got all excited, thought you were gonna give us the inside scoop or something lol.

To add his question...how much truth is there about the multiple motors needed..."they all run different" the critics say. ??

Will be interesting to see how brushless goes at the birds.

As far as 1 motor being faster than another, I dont really think thats the case. You certainly dont need 5 motors. I've had 3 different motors over the last year and they all run the same as far as I can tell. The thing I will say is if they get hot repeatedly say 190+ you might cause damage to them, but this isnt much of a problem with the sintered rotors anymore. What I do think matters is finding a rollout that works for you with your motor, I think they are a little different that way. For instance 1 motor you might need a 2.60 rollout, but with another you might need a 2.55. to run the same time. The line you drive, and how much you lift, and your setup factors in alot to what rollout you need to be running. As far as the timing being advanced, the difference is pretty negligble from what I have seen.

I would have to agree with Hays Jr. I run 13.5 and one of the guys I run with stays real close to a 2.60 rollout. My car seems slow or overgeared with anything over 2.52.
Chassis Setup and drivng style/consistency is everything in my opinion.

OvalTrucker, what is the size of the track ?

I am not sure exactly, but both of the tracks I run at are under 125' runline.

I am not sure exactly, but both of the tracks I run at are under 125' runline.
26 x 60 i believe

you can be 1.5 teeth high or low if your car is RIGHT.
this class is for car tuning and driving, too much emphasis on the motors.

no need for 4-5 motors. carry a spare if you like, but if I burn one up then I will buy another.

Is there a way to dyno a BL motor ?
I think it was RC Driver who tested it on a Robitronic but I cant remember for sure.

Is there a way to dyno a BL motor ?
I think it was RC Driver who tested it on a Robitronic but I cant remember for sure.

Yeah you can dyno them...you just need to have it connected to the ESC and power the ESC through the dyno.

RC

what does dynoing a brushless motor help? does it give numbers that you can compare better or worse?

what does dynoing a brushless motor help? does it give numbers that you can compare better or worse?

I've never dyno'd my brushless motors but I know a few guys that have. Yeah it will give you numbers to compare, but from the people that have dyno'd them, I'm hearing that there is not much varience among them. So I guess I can't really say what help it would be.

RC

Like Mr. Wolfman and RoadSplat and me and a ton of others have stated ad-nauseum. The difference between motors seems to be so minimal that the only way to go faster is to have a killer setup.
And nothing will beat a real good wheel with a killer setup.

i wonder if some of the really fast stock guys that know all the secrets with the stockers dont like brushless because now there advantage is less with brushless?

or any of the brush motor classes. if you have motor building talent you must have some advantage over someone else. in brushless its looking much less of a factor. still gotta wheel the car well and know how ot set up the cars. thats always constant

That is a good point Porksalot4L. I guess I never thought of that. I was never much of a motor builder anyway. As a matter of fact I did not race pancars until brushless started here in Michigan a couple years ago.

at our local track theres a few guys that watched my buddy dale with his brushless pan car running and got pretty interested in pan cars cause of it. they are mostly legend and spec racers. so maybe it could help the class grow? anything is possible

i wonder if some of the really fast stock guys that know all the secrets with the stockers dont like brushless because now there advantage is less with brushless?

Hey Joe, good point but I gotta stick up for the fast stock guys.
I think in stock racing, the motor means the least cause you dont have the power to dig you out if your car is wrong. So it forces you to really nail a setup.

I think a fast stock guy would really do well in BL racing.
I know Jody Miller picked it up recently and made the show at the Birds.

Some stockers might be better than others but I never thought there was any real tricks with them. Make sure the hoods are cleaned, aligned, fresh brushes, bushings broke in, keep em clean, zap the magnets every now and then and run them alot and see which seem to run better and keep those as your race motors.

what does dynoing a brushless motor help?

When I was thinking about a Dyno for B/L, it is to have a more exact RPM number based on input voltage and amp load...(same reason I dyno Brushed Motors)

i know eric. cream rises to the top! i just like having 1 less varable. alot of the guys at my track feel that way because we are very competative with eachother. then almost any out of towner comes and beat us. lol its disheartinging to some and at times can make you feel its a motor thing. especially after i heard about the possibility of some using diff magnets. i woudlnt even know how to change that stuff if i wanted to. how do you get it in and out? i dunno who thought of this lol. must of been someoen smarl!

Porksalot4L I know what you mean about the out of town guys kicking butt when they come to your track. It was the same way with me years ago before I did a lot of traveling; the out of town racers would come in and clean our clocks and I never understood why at the time. After all I raced there every week and had “the” setup! What I found out was that they had no pre conceived notions to what “the” setup was so they tried things that I wouldn’t and by the time they left, “the” setup was a lot different from what I was using.

It was only when I started traveling that I really started to learn about setups. When I go to a new track, I only had a few hours to learn what the “home boys” had weeks to try. Sort of puts things in a different prospective. The biggest one thing that I found out was that I never strayed too far away from “standard” tuning and that usually, odd setups with special springs or tires that people would say “only works at this track”……..were usually wrong.

The best advice I could give anyone that feels like they have their car as good as they can get it is to take a weekend and go to another track. Scrap all of your notions of what works at your track and try to make it work there. You will probably learn a thing or two. After 20 years, I still learn things when I go off.

good post Lin.
I know when I started racing I was so scared to change my setup at my home track for fear my car would go to crap. then i started traveling and noticed when i would race back at the home track that I changed my setup every round always looking for that half a tenth. Only way to get better.

I race at the same two tracks most of the time. And I am always working on my chassis.
With brushless, that is all you got to do - try new things with your chassis and learn to be a better driver. The guys I race with, week in and week out, are so competitive! :devil:
If you don't try something [because they are trying something] you will not be there for the big show! :)

good posts guys! your right atleast now ill have more time to play with setup on chassis rather then motors. ask anyone that knows me and they will tell you im not a motor guy at all! so this should be a big help running brushless

porks, i dont tottaly agree with you, remember the last few bigger races, us locals are usually in the front,yeh you get an out of towner that comes in and is fast but there not just anyone there some of the fastest guys in the country, some of the (better than average out of towners) come in and get there butts kicked

your right Cutter. i guess it depends on who the guys are. at the ORL/NEOT race the locals got mutilated though! thats the race im talking about. i dont think any of us sniffed the A. i could be wrong ? i have a bad memory.

We used to do the same thing with a full sized mod, go out of town and kick but. We would win the big shows too, my car owner came to a rc race and ask why I did not change any thing on my car. he started to mess with shocks and the motor was not a problem any more. brushed or brushless

traveling is great, and gettn my tail tanned is good to, makes me try to work that much harder,,,(scramble), just nice to know if ya want to travel there are people runnin the classes u run,,,,,,, but as far as the motors they are all pretty close, just whos on the wheel that day, but i still love my brushed motors as much as brushless!

As far as the brushless being equal.

I would like to add that at the Bird's 4300 class several of the top runners replaced rotors like the were one run brushes. Now I am not saying thats what it takes but don't we all take note of what the fast guys are doing?

Now matter the class, it depends on what level your trying to run a class at that determines as to how far you really need to go.

Do you really need a new set of tires every round at the Birds?
Do you really need ceramic bearings?
Do you really need snythetic bushing lube?
The list goes on and on!

Just ask yourself, whats in my budget and what kind of racers am I racing at the moment.


Brian Deel

As far as the brushless being equal.

I would like to add that at the Bird's 4300 class several of the top runners replaced rotors like the were one run brushes.

Brian Deel

They were wasting money then.

They were wasting money then.

Isn't that what racers do...to have an edge? Replacing things not needed to be replaced makes great psych or mind games...cause other racers are more worried about what THEY are replacing...instead of working on their OWN car...

At least I know this use to work WELL with the guy who Dirt Late Model I worked on...

As far as the brushless being equal.

I would like to add that at the Bird's 4300 class several of the top runners replaced rotors like the were one run brushes. Now I am not saying thats what it takes but don't we all take note of what the fast guys are doing?

Now matter the class, it depends on what level your trying to run a class at that determines as to how far you really need to go.

Do you really need a new set of tires every round at the Birds?Scuffs are generally faster
Do you really need ceramic bearings? I like steel bearings(they are $9 a piece...lol
Do you really need snythetic bushing lube?Speed Lube
The list goes on and on!

Just ask yourself, whats in my budget and what kind of racers am I racing at the moment.


Brian Deel

You were mis-informed about the rotors. Trust me. I pitted with Andy and Caleb and watched Frank and Sean, their motors never left their cars.

Caleb owned (1) motor before the Birds & he bought it used! I bought him a spare before he headed out & never swapped a thing all week!

Why is it so hard to believe that the fast guys are just fast and that's it. I will use Caleb Mullins for instance, He came down and raced with us once, he had never been here before but he whipped everyone in 19t to include Hacksaw Johnson who had raced here before and is still the track record holder in 19t. And here is the kicker, our track is tough to get set up on in any class even for the locals. I will bet anybody when those Lail guys come down to run with us again in the 4300 class they will be really tough to keep up with, much less beat!

If you cant stand beside the track and watch Calebs car at the birds and see why it was fast ...Then a 5800 motor wouldnt help ya ...Seans car Calebs Frankies Andy MAcs and the rest in the A Main there cars were awesome ..And if your car has RIP out of the corner and you can see it accelerate then it sucked thru the corner and didnt carry any speed in and off ...

BINGO!If you cant stand beside the track and watch Calebs car at the birds and see why it was fast ...Then a 5800 motor wouldnt help ya ...Seans car Calebs Frankies Andy MAcs and the rest in the A Main there cars were awesome ..And if your car has RIP out of the corner and you can see it accelerate then it sucked thru the corner and didnt carry any speed in and off ...

If you cant stand beside the track and watch Calebs car at the birds and see why it was fast ...Then a 5800 motor wouldnt help ya ...Seans car Calebs Frankies Andy MAcs and the rest in the A Main there cars were awesome ..And if your car has RIP out of the corner and you can see it accelerate then it sucked thru the corner and didnt carry any speed in and off ...

Got that right!

I dont race much back east anymore ...But I do watch results and Caleb and Many others back there have really stepped up the competition ...

it's funny how a year ago all these guys said the brushless motors would level the playing field. now 1 year later the fast guys are still 2 laps up on the avg guy.

now the avg guy needs to think he needs new rotors and buy 15 4300 motors to get a fast one! my god people when will you just admit the fast guys spend 20 or more hours a week wrenching and fiddling with there cars! and they race every week! IT'S NOT SPECIAL MOTORS IT'S NOT SPECIAL ROTORS AND IT AIN'T BATTERIES! every hooby/sport has a top 10% they didn't get fast overnight and nothing will slow them down! someone stop the insanity! lol

it's funny how a year ago all these guys said the brushless motors would level the playing field. now 1 year later the fast guys are still 2 laps up on the avg guy.

now the avg guy needs to think he needs new rotors and buy 15 4300 motors to get a fast one! my god people when will you just admit the fast guys spend 20 or more hours a week wrenching and fiddling with there cars! and they race every week! IT'S NOT SPECIAL MOTORS IT'S NOT SPECIAL ROTORS AND IT AIN'T BATTERIES! every hooby/sport has a top 10% they didn't get fast overnight and nothing will slow them down! someone stop the insanity! lol Your exactly right! Caleb works for me & I watch him study lap times daily & converse with racers all day long. It's really all about the chassis & tire selection & alot of work goes into both! Thanks Humpty for the kind words as he's worked hard to get to the the next level.

You know I see the same thing all over. Caleb put many hours on his car doing his homework and it shows. Instead off saying nice run or good work its "oh he must be cheating" In those people would pay more attention to whats going on in their own pits vs. what the fast guys are doing maybe they would step it up too. Great job Caleb don't let up keep pushing!!!

Rick Liehr

People simply need to understand that you get out what you put in. If you show up an hour before the first qualifier more than likely your not going to be the fast guy. Every thursday before a race weekend myself and about 4 others have been practicing til 1 or 2 in the morning. The track time has helped us all run faster than ever. I am sure some guys show up and swear cheating is going on when in fact the one thing that never gets changed is the motor. Brushless may not have tightened the field up much, but it did take the motor out of the equation. If your not fast its the chassis set-up NOT the motor.

i think a good point that came out of this thread was the fact that whoever said the rotors were being changed every run must of been mistaking because from what im reading is that the fast guys didnt change there rotor every run. so that should help anyone wanting to know if they have to buy a new one often. THEY DONT! thanks guys :)

Yes and everyone is still running the rotor they started with at the begining of the season. Also, the same motor. These things never drop in performance.

awesome finally a consistent motor. time to work on the chassis

Sounds like this thread can be shut down, cuz there isn't any shady brushless stuff! LOL

Adam Liehr

it's funny how a year ago all these guys said the brushless motors would level the playing field. now 1 year later the fast guys are still 2 laps up on the avg guy.

now the avg guy needs to think he needs new rotors and buy 15 4300 motors to get a fast one! my god people when will you just admit the fast guys spend 20 or more hours a week wrenching and fiddling with there cars! and they race every week! IT'S NOT SPECIAL MOTORS IT'S NOT SPECIAL ROTORS AND IT AIN'T BATTERIES! every hooby/sport has a top 10% they didn't get fast overnight and nothing will slow them down! someone stop the insanity! lol
You dont have to race every week,but you might want to fiddle with the car during it.Read these boards, ask questions, be ready when you get to the track!!! troy

Katfish on the record withthe TRUTH


HI Adam and Rick,,,, Please pm me your numbers so we can make a plan for down south SRM

Yes and everyone is still running the rotor they started with at the begining of the season. Also, the same motor. These things never drop in performance.

I have run the same motor at every carpet race this winter, including All the BRL races and Snowbirds. In Fact, I blew my first 4300 up in a TC and the motor I've been running is a "re-manufactored" motor that I just added a Sintered rotor to.

I know exactly why I'm a first place car, 3rd place, 7th place or in the B-main and it ain't the motor. It's because my car is bad fast on wider tracks and we struggle on narrower tracks. There are guys that go fast with Gen 2's everywhere but the way I do things seems to make the cars a little tight, I guess that partly a mod racer mentality cause you can always make up for being a little tight on the Straightaway, but you can't if the car is spinning the tires off the corner.

BTW, I'm taking a brand new Pro 4300 motor to Omaha this weekend. I should be really fast, cause of the motor.

I have run the same motor at every carpet race this winter, including All the BRL races and Snowbirds. In Fact, I blew my first 4300 up in a TC and the motor I've been running is a "re-manufactored" motor that I just added a Sintered rotor to.

I know exactly why I'm a first place car, 3rd place, 7th place or in the B-main and it ain't the motor. It's because my car is bad fast on wider tracks and we struggle on narrower tracks. There are guys that go fast with Gen 2's everywhere but the way I do things seems to make the cars a little tight, I guess that partly a mod racer mentality cause you can always make up for being a little tight on the Straightaway, but you can't if the car is spinning the tires off the corner.

BTW, I'm taking a brand new Pro 4300 motor to Omaha this weekend. I should be really fast, cause of the motor. :jest: :lol:

So I should just stay home then huh DB.... I never could have enough rip to make up for my tight car in mod...without running out of battery that is anyway.