Jon Anderson and myself would like to announce the formation of SkOR. An organization designed to promote radio controlled s/k racing. We have set up rules and guidelines. This has been in the works for months. Jon and I got together to get a set of rules that hopefully will allow the different chassis to race together. I am posting this thread because people are already talking about it. We are getting the rules to different people to review. We will be up and running by the 1st of the new year. If you have any suggestions, please feel free to let us know. We set up this thread today to handle this. I am not puting in my time nor is Jon to sell more cars, as we both have our own seperate stores and clubs we sell to. But rather to stop this class from being overrun by high costs associated with the high end racing. We are trying to keep the costs down to give new people and cost minded racers are class to run. As all of you who know me, please don't line up to agree, I am not a very good stock racer. I enjoy racing and travel to many tracks in the east coast. It would be nice to race a uniform spec class. This is one of our main goals! Please be patient, I know how every one has good intentions and ideas. But give us a chance to display the final rules and we will see how it goes.
Thank You
JIM Tierinni
860-432-5806
sales@beefyproducts.com
Jon Anderson
rolls_kanardly@comcast.net

Thats great, glad to see that someone is doing this, I race up north once in a while, there sure are alot of SK's up there. Good luck

Doug

I have already spoken to Jimmy and I am getting an SK car sooner than later, I drove his up in Benton and I was hooked. Jimmy, look for my mail in about two weeks for a car! Keep up the good work guys, I hope this class takes off, it should, it's low cost FUN. See you soon.

Steve

The two styles of cars that currently are allowed are both great in their own way that is what makes it good and simple lets try and keep it that way! great job to Jim from Beefy and Jon from RKR. if they want to hopp up those style of cars then offer a seperate class? just my opinion
Thanks Bud :thumbsup:

We have started racing S/K Mods at Steel City Hobbies this year. We set are rules as unaltered fiberglass chassis, speed spec motor, F-brushes, 6-cell 1800 mah or less stick ni-cad, spec tires, and a weight rule. The cars are fast, cheap, and anyone can be compettive. I think that was the original idea of this class. It sounds like this class is turning into another 4-cell stock class at a lot of other tracks. If we don't keep some low cost classes going there is not going to be any new racers getting into this hobby and soon we will have no place left to race.

this was long over due and just happy that something is being done about it finaly. I stand behind it. now the class should grow even more, its got to say something when in our area its bigger than a 19t for sure and little smaller than the stock class. look at the sk shootout, what almost 50 sk drivers. WOW. def a great idea :thumbsup:

I am glad Jimmy and myself could get together as s/k enthousiests, and not competitors, to put together a great organization like this one. I think this will eliminate the questions that racers have when they travel from track to track. In turn, this should allow the class to grow even more.

sounds good to me

Please put us on the list when the rules become finalized.

Rodney , North Haverhill RC Speedway

I think that what dirty was saying is that maybe we need to run the s/ks like they do in real racing .The spec class sounds like a great idea.But let me thrw this at you what about a pro mod class and the spec class . Pro mod running the same stuff that we have now and skor running the spec stuff that way the driver can make up his own mind . Just my two cent's Ken B

"Someone should set up a poll on Hobby Talk & see what the RACERS want. They are the ones paying the entry fees. Only people that run SK's should have a vote. I know that's probably hard to police, but that's what should happen. I don't think K&N or Madness or any track should make the rules for any class. If it's what the racers want, then run the class that way. Done deal. My opinion: whatever fits under the body is good, no coil-overs. Rigid cars will still win their share. If guys want to spend twice as much on an "exotit" kit and still get beat by a flat piece of fiberglass, that's fine. The guys that were in the A-main at the Shootout with T-plate cars would have made the Main regardless of what they drove. Guys in the B & C-mains weren't beat by t-plates, they were beat by Drivers, me included. "

The above was posted by dirtydrc on a different thread...

As some "clubs" set up rules and are successful, there are many that fail. For every rule that 1 racer wants, there is another racer who disagrees. Generalizing a set of rules between multiple tracks would be almost impossible to do this way. There are many racers, some who would have a lot of input on rules, who do not use computers and or do not participate on hobbytalk. Therefor getting a fair shake for every racer this way would be difficult.
In my opinion NASCAR is the most succesfull sanctioning body. They do not ask racers or race teams, who pay entry fee, what they think of rules. It is not a club it is a sanctioning body, just as this is.
With that being said... Jimmy and myself had differences when writing these rules. This resulted in compromises. These rules were not drawn up by us exclusively, per say. We looked at old outdated rules from the class, and existing rules. We talked about concerns we had heard from other racers, and also talked to some racers as well. When Jimmy approached me, over a month ago about starting something like this, I immediately got to work on it. Since then we have refined our guidelines, approval process for new products, and rules many times. All of this time, Jimmy and myself could have been making/packaging/promoting our products, but for the better of the class we devoted our time to what we thought was a good cause. I hope I made my point, and in no way did I intend to offend anyone. I think in the long run the class will benefit from this, and we have big plans in store for this organization.
This in no way means everyones thoughts will be disregarded... It simply means that we came to an agreement on what we feel is best for the class. As we hear concerns we will discuss them and change things as needed. I hope this clears things up for everyone.

well said jon, and you guys got together because you guys are the only sk manufactors correct? whats the deal with new cars/companies coming to the plate? seems like more and more cars are coming out.

i Have heard of a couple coming out. One I heard of just recently on here, with it's announcement. The other company actually did research and found out there was a sanctioning body in the works, and will be submitting his car for approval. I have seen some samples of what he is using, and seems to be an original idea. We are not discouraging new cars/companies... just trying to keep it within a perameter of guidelines, as to not have the class over run by "high end" equipment or a design that that is in a class of its own. As you know ken, a lot of time and effort has gone into this, so i hope it works out for the better.

[IAs some "clubs" set up rules and are successful, there are many that fail. For every rule that 1 racer wants, there is another racer who disagrees. Generalizing a set of rules between multiple tracks would be almost impossible to do this way. There are many racers, some who would have a lot of input on rules, who do not use computers and or do not participate on hobbytalk. Therefor getting a fair shake for every racer this way would be difficult.
In my opinion NASCAR is the most succesfull sanctioning body. They do not ask racers or race teams, who pay entry fee, what they think of rules. It is not a club it is a sanctioning body, just as this is.

You know what, since you described it that way, it makes sense to me. :thumbsup: See ya Saturday...

trust me I know... I just want to see the class grow the way its been but with better rules or should I say rules besides weight and stock.

Bob your ideas are always appreciated. But John and I got together to set up rules so people can run together without the high end cars taking over. The idea is similar to the Trinity Street Spec set up where a Bolink Street spec and a trinity street spec could run against each other. Therefore a one off can not be entered in a SKOR sanctioned race. Nor can a car that has not been approved. We are simply doing this because it needed to be done before it gets out of hand. It's nice that you put forth the ideas of racers getting together to decide the rules. But lets face it. There are to many people with conflicting ideas and no one who has the time to do it. Jon and I got together, put our differences aside and used our collective experinece together to come up with an organization. Bolink set up the legends class with out racers, trinity set up street spec on its own. I see no reason why we can't do it. I have never altered my car from week to week to make it faster. Box stock is the way I run my car. I actually believe that if a store owner was smart he would either purchase the RKR or the Excaliber/Beefy spec car and run one car kit under the sportsman guidlines if he wants to turn a profit. Before every passes judgement let us finalize the rules and give it a chance. I'm sure the average SK driver will aprreciate our efforts.
Sincerely
Jim Tierinni

i dont race S/K's ALL THE TIME BUT WHEN I DO THE ONLY(sorry) thing that bothers me is why do we have to run a spec. brush and why is the min.weight so high (i had to add two and a half ounces to kenny's car last week to make weight). you are trying to make this class cheap and i think what you guys are doing is great but you have to remember this is for fun. with all the rules you guys are making what if i have a t bar s/k and show up to race and the only guys that show up are the solid chassie cars does that mean i cant race . and here is another one for you what if i wanted to make my own chassie (solid of course) why would i have to have it approved ..


dont take any of this the wrong way

mark smyka

..........

i dont race S/K's ALL THE TIME BUT WHEN I DO THE ONLY(sorry) thing that bothers me is why do we have to run a spec. brush and why is the min.weight so high (i had to add two and a half ounces to kenny's car last week to make weight). you are trying to make this class cheap and i think what you guys are doing is great but you have to remember this is for fun. with all the rules you guys are making what if i have a t bar s/k and show up to race and the only guys that show up are the solid chassie cars does that mean i cant race . and here is another one for you what if i wanted to make my own chassie (solid of course) why would i have to have it approved ..


dont take any of this the wrong way

mark smyka
all good points mark but I think your questions will be answered with the "skor rules", do you think its fair to have one off chassis and race it. I am sure the track owner wouldnt turn down a racer with an already approved car and also an honor system if you will with in the racers, everyone basicaly knows each other around here and doubt if someone would come from another state etc just to beat people with a one off chassis, of course with you I am sure with some wheels and cardboard it would win. making your own chassis is fine but would need to be approved I guess because it could have an advantage over others and not be readily availble for others to buy or race. personaly dont care at all but with new rules etc being made and put in place I have to follow in order for my cars to be ran, as most of the older racers would say everyweek they would make a new chassis or something different, it was a way of learning but with todays BS not gonna happen anymore the way it looks.

My point is that it is a clear conflict of interest to have a manufacturer, who is making a profit off these cars, be the judge and jury as to what is and is not legal. A good example of this is ROAR, I believe bob Novack removed himself from the executive comittee for that very reason a few years back. The racers,(the ones that buy your kits, and pay the entry fees) wont stand for it. Bottom line, its up to the tracks to either endorse SKOR rules or not. Do you really think they will if they are forced to turn away entries because the racers dont agree? We all know what happened to ROAR, and they were an established force for many years. Driving skill, setup, and preparation should be what puts a manufacturer in the winners circle, not how crafty they can be regarding manipulation of the rules, politics and greed. I got a copy of the proposed rules from Jon a couple of weeks ago, I'll make some copies for others, and if the tracks agree I'll have a car ready to race. This smacks of some hick town where the sherrif makes an arrest, then changes hats the next day and shows up presiding over the court! Who will police, tech and enforce the car makers rides? To have any A-Main driver tech another competitors car is well, a little leaky in my opinion, and I would hope no well meaning organization would put thenselves in that position if they want to be taken seriously. You S/K manufacturers are all going to be racing against yourselves with piles of kits if you dont stop worrying about winning and discouraging anyone who offers up any kind of competition. Again, I am the only one in this debate who does not have a vested interest in the outcome of this, I buy my cars, I make no profit based on these decisions, I stand to only spend money to buy and use your products, yet, noone seems to care what Joe racer thinks about this mess. The people have spoken, a smart buisinessman would take note and look at the big picture.

sounds like wee need to go back to the J-Car chassis flat rectangle fiberglass no t-bar or suspension and they worked pretty good for a while

as long as we had rules I would be fine with that, just like they had rules with them back in the day, but keep in mind that was the only car to be used nothing else that I know of was allowed to be ran, at all, now thats politics.

with all the rules you guys are making what if i have a t bar s/k and show up to race and the only guys that show up are the solid chassie cars does that mean i cant race .

dont take any of this the wrong way

mark smyka
The 2 cars are already racing together at more than one track.

As an outsider looking in, I think the point Bob Pedone is making is that how would the competitors in Nascar feel if Jack Roush,Richard Childress,or Rick Hendrick sat on the Nascar rules commitee? Probably like they had an unfair advantage, even if they did not.
I do commend Jon and Jim for getting the ball rolling but by not having an unbiased third party involved gives the appearence of rules developed in their favor even though no one has seen the rules yet.
I agree any class should have a consistant set of rules and allow fair and equal racing by all participants. With that said and watching all the bickering back and forth I think what will happen is a monopolized class that will offer racers minamal choices because of the rules of the game have now been drawn up and set-forth. Now if anyone wants to get in the S/K chassis game, they probably won't due to the biased approval committee.

you have to understand something there was no rules other than weight and 4 cell stock or 19 4 cell.

...........

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I do not usually comment on alot of these things but i do think that there are a lot of good points here. One thing i can say is why be so quick to jump on these guys when it seems to me that they are the only ones to come up with a set of rules. Maybe a good way to try and do this is make the rules and set it up like arcor and have members vote on all changes.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Johnson get back to renting scooters.:devil: :p

what happened to the old set of rules we used to use ...


" Again thats your choice, but remeber if the track follows skor, your car will need to be presented to skor and if it is an excat or even close copy of any sk out there now I am most positive it will be denied."



what gives you the right to do this if i take a s/k car now move the front of the battery out a little and make the front end a half inch longer and make the right side wider it still looks the same but will handle a lot different ..

I don't post much on this subject but myself I am one of the race directors at Trax70 in New Jersey and we currently run an sk class that is all spec, batteries, motors and brushes, cars must be kept box stock, and it's become a very popular class. Some guys still use the old BME Bonz cars and most use the Beefy Cars.
I applaud Jim and Jon for realizing that the original intent of the class is to keep the costs down and to at least set guidelines for tracks to follow. Each track can and will have their own rules to what they feel will work for them, for us at Trax70 all spec is working, we have consistant turnouts and more are buying cars after seeing how much fun they really are and how inexspensive it is...What we don't want is to outdate what everyone is running everytime there is a new car or a variation of an old car comes out.

Having been involved with the Trinity street spec series that was run back in the day I know that spec racing can work... but it starts with a good set of guidelines...
and of course the bottom line is, that it needs to be fun!

Dave Carpenter
www.trax70.com

what happened to the old set of rules we used to use ...


" Again thats your choice, but remeber if the track follows skor, your car will need to be presented to skor and if it is an excat or even close copy of any sk out there now I am most positive it will be denied."



what gives you the right to do this if i take a s/k car now move the front of the battery out a little and make the front end a half inch longer and make the right side wider it still looks the same but will handle a lot different ..

Your car will be dialled and you will be denied.:thumbsup:

what happened to the old set of rules we used to use ...


" Again thats your choice, but remeber if the track follows skor, your car will need to be presented to skor and if it is an excat or even close copy of any sk out there now I am most positive it will be denied."



what gives you the right to do this if i take a s/k car now move the front of the battery out a little and make the front end a half inch longer and make the right side wider it still looks the same but will handle a lot different ..
I am not on the skor comitte and should have posted that in the begining, but from what I understand with presenting my chassis to "skor" if the track or tracks I run at go by skor this chassis or any other must be approved by them. anyone can come out with there own chassis, variety is good. I would just like to see rules set forth and go by them, I dont want to be accused etc for running something that I am not suppose to, anything else they decide is up to them. I dont agree with everything but its a start.

I hear ya bill and understand what your saying, all my posts have been mainly about rules rules. we need something I just wish it would be simple like other places are running them, SPEC, batts motors,tires etc, either that or I am just pulling out of it all entirely because its crazy, the direction of the sks at idle and heading was not the way it should be.

For all you average racers reading this thread. I just want to point out most of the negative comment are coming from A main, high end racers. Not the average sk racer or people looking to get into sk racing. For these guys picking apart an organization before has even has a chance to work is absurd. I think most rational spec racers would agree that you can't have this class with a chassis of the week club. Especialy one off's out of the basement. Yes we are manufactorers, but at least we got off our butts and did something about organizing this class before it gets out of hand. If we let the high end racers set the rules than it will be a just like 4-cell stock. Another class where all the high end guys droped down to so us little guys can't have any fun racing because we are in the way and can't move out of the way fast enough. You all know I am right on this point. When I ran K&N. All the high end guys ran 19t. Now they all run 4-cell stock. This has left a void for all us low end guys. This is where sk racing can come into play. I just want the average racer to know we are working toward a fair set of rules to be used by local tracks in setting up a fun and I hope inexpensive form of racing. Please be patient and give us a chance. I am sure all you brave guys with you computers will be blasting away at me for speaking the truth. And I don't mean to paint all high end racers with the same brush. Most of the guys I race with are great. If I do have a bias, its sticking up for the average racer. All of you SK racers stick with us. We are going to do this as best as we can. Thank you guys who actualy had a positive comment.
Jim Tierinni

Bill Johnson is a great guy to race with who always has good things to say when I see him at the track.But I'm not sure why he is commenting on this thread.He is a 19t and mod racer. But this is whats good and bad about these threads. Anyone can voice there opinion. If you guys are going to voice your opinions on this thread. Please list the classes you run in weekly. This way the average racer can judge for himself. How is it that my integrety is being questioned when we haven't even finished the rules. Come on, most of you who know me know I am probably the worst racer you have ever seen. But I usualy have the most fun when I go from track to track. But a simple SK spec racing class isn't to much to ask for. Is it? So please be patient. AND YES THERE MAYBE PITS FALLS GETTING THIS STARTED. IT MAY TAKE A FEW MISTAKES TO GET IT RIGHT. BUT AT LEAST WE ARE TRYING.
But Bill in response to your comment about us slowing down a big race. Please think to how many times we wait because so called big time racers haven't had enough time to charge. If you are honest, the answer is plenty.
I would like to hear from some of you actual spec racers. What do you think?
Thanks
JIM

Keep your chin up Jimmy & John, Rome wasn't built in a day. One thing to think about, maybe you should have every manufacturer send a car for SKOR to keep on hand, to represent that particular car, for comparison. So, if there's any arguement if a car has been altered, you have something to go by- a benchmark. Maybe it's not needed. Just a thought.

Jimmy, you got your Glasses on straight?....I've deleted my posts, but you obviously saw them. But let me remind you that ALL of my posts were not directed at the rules, as you keep stating. And since the subject of the approval process keeps getting stepped around, you cannot even tell me, or anyone that has posted about car/part approval, that we're wrong....
I didn't say anything about SK cars being charged and besides, we all know it's usually Greg Pace, or Boehm soldered the motor in backwards. :D , I said about conflicts in you rules coinciding with some "Surprise" approvals....
Doesn't matter what we race Jim, it's all the same hobby, at the same tracks my friend.....I'm not against you in any way, we're friends, but I'm looking at the picture your old eyes can't see past..... :tongue: :cool:

well said jon, and you guys got together because you guys are the only sk manufactors correct? whats the deal with new cars/companies coming to the plate? seems like more and more cars are coming out.
As a new manufacturer of SK cars I would like to see the track owners and some of the racers decide the rules. You gotta admit having the people who make the cars set the rules is a big conflict of interest. That's not how you set up these sorts of organizations. Usually what you do is have a person from each of the mfg's there to represent the industry, track owners there to represent the track's best interest, and the drivers who drive the class should send one or two persons from each brand of car. This sort of thing is very easy online. Do it via email so that you don't attract all sorts of unsolicited opinions because if your sample is too big the results will be meaningless. You run statistical analisys' the same way you run quality manufacturing experiments. Then form a matrix and publish he results.
Here's a suggestion: (I realize you have already agreed on a set of rules) but here goes.... Invite the track owners of all tracks running the SK class, Invite the mfg's one person from each company, and then invite non-sponsored drivers from each car type ie: 2 RKR flat chassis racers, 2 Beefy racers, 2 RSE drivers. The results should satisfy everyone involved. The reason I'd suggest non sponsored drivers where available is so that they are somewhat unbiased. Fully sponsored drivers are going to want to bend the rules to allow whatever their sponsor is currently testing unbder R&D.
Sound reasonable.

My point is that it is a clear conflict of interest to have a manufacturer, who is making a profit off these cars, be the judge and jury as to what is and is not legal.

Exactly. Nascar was used as a point earlier also. Nascar does not sell parts, cars, motors or anything to race teams, it only sets the rules.

If I was to design a SK chassis, I should submit it to two people that currently produce these kits? please....

I looked into racing part time this year, SK's were an easy choice, now, just reading here shows it isn't an option. The "rules" have gone from mild to wild, I can't judge what is upcoming with this new "SKOR" deal but it doesn't look good IMHO.

what a load of CRAP! How can you judge something BEFORE it even get off the ground? John & Jimmy are taking the time to come up with a standard of rules, and all I can here is people that DO NOT run the class bashing everything...
So we could just say NEOT is setting the rules, I make NO sk car or any other parts,
I see NOTHING getting wild at all, and I an sure NO shock/damper shock will be legal
in the spec class. I can see a pro class with in reach of using them, but at this point I think it would not be in the best intrest of SK to divid the class at this time.

Most guys reading this thread and on this board know me, I speak what’s on my mind and don't care if others disagree with me or like my post. I haven't comment on this topic until know. I don't race SK and have almost zero interest in running them, but I would like to see more people at the race track no matter what class there running. I think what Jim & John are trying to do is a great thing for the SK's and for the tracks trying to run them. When Jim & John are happy with the rules they will no doubt show them to guys that run SK to ask for opinions and comments on them. I don't think the first draft will be set in stone, and after the draft is completed it will no doubt need to be amended to add some rules, but this is a process that all organizations go thru. There smart guys, and have been racing SK long enough to know what the class needs to grow, give them time to get all there ducks in order, I believe they will produce simply and effective rules that every one, tracks and racers can live with.

my one question that i have as an innocent bystander is can the flat chassis(no t-plate) honestly be competitve with a car that has one. If they cant what do the guys do that have the cars with no t-plates when they want to go else where? The reason street spec was so good was rule number one in the rule book, If it does not say you can do it then it is not legal! pretty much says it all just my 2 cents

Noname, they have won races against the t-plate cars. IMO there aren't as good, but they still manage to win races.

thanks mike my local track has offered them to race but there rules are solid no t plate cars so if i wanted to go elsewhere it would be a tought road to compete. may ia sk some more experianced guys why the switch why not leave as a solid. Like the old saying K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid)

IMO the design has been around for so long they just wanted a change. It has what almost 15 years since the first sk/j car was run.

solid cars have won against the tplate cars at all kinds of tracks, like mike said give it time and a chance,also its obviuos when adding rear suspension you will have a better handling car. times have changed, better technology,componets etc. orginaly the tplate car was intended for a spec class only and seems to be around here is the problem mixing the two because again there was no uniform rules to go by. hopefuly this will solve those problems

thanks mike my local track has offered them to race but there rules are solid no t plate cars so if i wanted to go elsewhere it would be a tought road to compete. may ia sk some more experianced guys why the switch why not leave as a solid. Like the old saying K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid)
I don't think you will have any problems racing your solid car against any of the t-plate cars. There seems to be an even mix at most events.

Will the old J car still be aloud.