Is it just me, or did the probe the Cylons found look amazingly like NOMAD? If anyone happens to have a screenshot and can post it here, I'd appreciate it. I wasn't able to record it.

I'm not sure how closely the "probe" (or whatever it is) resembles Nomad, but that is the first thing I thought of while watching the episode.

Yup, me too. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a nod to Nomad - the probe that wiped out whole civilizations!

I think Athena Sharon set the self destruct.

I think she did too. And I also immediately thought Nomad when seeing the probe.

Wow, I missed that one.
"You are the Adama"

But I did think Athena blew up the base ship.

BTW: Anyone know anymore about what happened to original Athena?
I'm aware about all the rumors about her. I'm just wondering if anyone found info about her recently.

Is it just me, or did the probe the Cylons found look amazingly like NOMAD?
Actually, I didn't. Basically, it was the same shape, but Nomad was a cylinder, but facited. The probe was a true cylinder, plus it had a whole bunch of greebles, piping & wiring on it. The probe also had some kind of a dish on the end. For me, it was only a passing resemblance.

No one's saying it was a copy of Nomad. Just a slight resemblance.

So, Maren has some issues? I know nothing of this.

All those deep space probes from the 1990s look so similar I never thought specifically of NOMAD when I saw it. :tongue:

So, Maren has some issues? I know nothing of this.
According to her IMDb Bio page for Maren Jensen (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0421596/bio):

Where are they now


(December 2003) Became one of the first people in Hollywood to suffer the debilitating effects of Epstein-Barr syndrome (in the 1980s). She has since recovered, but has left show business behind her.

That's the most recent info they seem to have on her. Entry from CDC.gov for Epstein-Barr Virus (http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/ebv.htm). Sounds pretty danged nasty to me.

I thought of Nomad first thing and thought it was a nice touch to probably the worst episode I've seen to date.

It was easy to get off New Craprica and put that mess behind us but sympathy for the Cylons? Pleeeasseee. 500 Hitlers couldn't have wiped out that much humanity! 99.9% of everybody who ever lived is dead because of the ROBOTS and we need to discuss how their erradication might affect our souls? Waaaaahhh! What a pantiewaist episode!! Who wrote this crap? They even made Adama wear panties!!

Sadly, it will effect the rest of whatever is left of the the series. There is no way they can write a way out of this mess short of time travel.

It was easy to get off New Craprica and put that mess behind us but sympathy for the Cylons? Pleeeasseee. 500 Hitlers couldn't have wiped out that much humanity! 99.9% of everybody who ever lived is dead because of the ROBOTS and we need to discuss how their erradication might affect our souls? Waaaaahhh! What a pantiewaist episode!! Who wrote this crap? They even made Adama wear panties!!

I was hoping that they'd get the virus and start dying and that Baltar would make up a vaccine thereby instigating his rise to power among them.

Helo sure proved to be one strange bird doing what he did. I hope he gets killed off for this.

Some people have morals. They don't feel that two wrongs make a right. What more can be said...? Just because you don't share that line of thinking doesn't make you right or them wrong.

Some people have morals. They don't feel that two wrongs make a right. What more can be said...? Just because you don't share that line of thinking doesn't make you right or them wrong.

I think I'm right here: the cylons are machines. Turn off the switch. It's that simple.

At least that's the attitude of many on the show despite the last episode. :p

The whole debate that is occurring is whether the skinjobs (or the other versions for that matter) constitute a form of life. So far, the president has been blowing them out the airlock at the drop of a hat. I reckon we know where she stands.

A better question might be: "Is what we call 'biological' really a programmed series of evolutionary trends resulting in us and other lifeforms?" There are folks today who believe in "intelligent design" which, from what I've been able to tell, suggests something similar as well as suggesting a diety such as the Cylons believe in.

Is what we are calling Sci-Fi just a soap opera? He's having a baby with a robot! She has cancer..no she doesn't! He's secretly responsible for destroying humanity!
One ridiculous situation after another, no one important dies, and no one is punished for doing bad things. My mother would love this show.

Perfesser & terryr, I agree on both points! Hilo must face the death penalty for Treason and Crimes against Humanity and so must Adama for "closing the books on this one " If they coulda launched the virus, then Baltar coulda used the Human/Toaster mutant child to develop a cure. Much better!

Griff, IMO, the fun of posting on any paticular subject is to state your view, pro or con, or offer ideas on the subject at hand without offending others. I'm sure we are all fans of Sci-fi & BSG. I can think of no better way to express my thoughts about the way this episode played out. No intention on my part to be more or less moral than anyone else. Sorry if my assement upset you! Jim

Is what we are calling Sci-Fi just a soap opera? He's having a baby with a robot! She has cancer..no she doesn't! He's secretly responsible for destroying humanity!
One ridiculous situation after another, no one important dies, and no one is punished for doing bad things. My mother would love this show.

The original Star Trek was referred to by many of the fans/critics as being "space opera." I'm not sure I care about BG's classification as long as I like what's on screen and for about 99.9% of the time, I like very much! :thumbsup:

Griff, IMO, the fun of posting on any paticular subject is to state your view, pro or con, or offer ideas on the subject at hand without offending others. I'm sure we are all fans of Sci-fi & BSG. I can think of no better way to express my thoughts about the way this episode played out. No intention on my part to be more or less moral than anyone else. Sorry if my assement upset you! Jim
I'm just statin' my opinion on the issue, which also includes your take on things. I'm not upset at all. Some folks just have a higher moral standard than others. I can totally understand the reasoning of "Kill 'em all! They killed us first!" mentality, myself. That doesn't mean that anyone else is wrong for thinking otherwise is all I'm sayin'. Basically, I'm making counterpoint to your explosive rant on the subject. :)

Despite the premature deaths of the cylon prisoners, it seems like the colonials' basic plan would still be intact. The doctor isolated the virus, right? I assume it's kicking around in a test tube. How hard would it be to capture one of the cylons they run into every week (even a raider), infect it, let it get sick, then kill it in proximity of a resurrection ship? Or just load up a missle with the virus and shoot it into a baseship or something. I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong to do that, but it's a plot possibility which I didn't hear addressed.

Those little plot oversights bug me a bit. I understand the need to keep the drama going, and I can suspend my disbelief as well as anybody, but I don't like it when I think of stuff the writers should have thought of. Stargate would usually insert a piece of dialog to explain such things, BSG, not so much.

Shawn Marshall
Portland, Oregon

As stated in some other thread, Im a big fan with high hopes. Im bewildered when the plot ideas seem lazy. So, while I'm on a rant then, I cant see how releasing the virus on the Cylons would have even wiped them out. There are 5 mystery robots that dont travel with the other 7. Probably would of killed off a couple base ships and a resurection ship. The other 100 million robots would have survived. So it wouldnt of been genocide, just a good wartime tactic to slow them down!

If the Cylons are a species = to humanity, then they would be be guilty of attemted genocide as well. Not only did they destroy most of humanity, they continue to chase the 40 thousand or so survivors accross the galaxy for what purpose but to destroy them? They should be held to the same high standards as real humans!

Again, high hopes but what are they going to do now? Hilo took it upon himself to frak over what few survivors are left and even possibly, the planet Earth! And he said if he made a mistake "he can live with it" He's as big a traitor as Baltar! I hope they at least kill him off!

I was always a big Carl C. Agathon fan until this episode. Now I'd just put him out the airlock.

There are folks today who believe in "intelligent design" which, from what I've been able to tell, suggests something similar as well as suggesting a diety such as the Cylons believe in.

The biggest logical flaw in the "intelligent design" theory is its core tenet: Humans were created in God's image and therefore human beings are the apex of evolution. If you believe God is perfect and all knowing, then you have to believe God can do better. ;) It's like saying John P would build a snap tite truck model without glue or putty and uses crayons to paint it.

Anyway, that's a point BSG drives home every week: we're not perfect. We're flawed creatures and we have yet to answer the question why the universe should spare us from extinction. For every positive thing humans have created (art, music, culture, civilization, justice, the US Constitution, philosophy, etc.) there is an equally negative and ugly counterpart (murder, rape, genocide, theft, revenge, etc.).

One thing that BSG does well is that the chickens always come home to roost. The second half of the episode was a letdown. Helo did the wrong thing and I'm sure he will suffer the consequences of his actions.

It was easy to get off New Craprica and put that mess behind us but sympathy for the Cylons? Pleeeasseee. 500 Hitlers couldn't have wiped out that much humanity! 99.9% of everybody who ever lived is dead because of the ROBOTS and we need to discuss how their erradication might affect our souls? Waaaaahhh! What a pantiewaist episode!! Who wrote this crap? They even made Adama wear panties!!

Were did you get this?? Everyone was for the plan except Helo. Adama's musing about "our souls" is more likely his attempt to grapple with the philosophical question as to why humanity should be spared. He was more thinking out loud than second guessing the tactics.

Oddly enough, I AM working on a snap-kit at the moment.

I'll just ... put the crayons away...

As with most philosophical questions, it always seems to lead to the point where I get overwhelmed considering why and how the universe exists, how it can exist, how could it not exist, how it was started, what is existence itself, etc.

It's better to just dig the cool ships and shoot-em-up action. :freak:

I think another thing the show is trying talk to us about is the concept of what is a 'machine' or the barrier between human and non-human.

Some on the show think that the Cylons are simply machines and simply programed. There are also those who watch the show who have the same viewpoints of the cylons.

However, both fictional and real forget that humans are infact machines as well. Biological in nature. If you doubt this, simply look up the definition of 'machine' in your dictionary. As for being programed, yep we are programed as well. 'Instinct' has ruled each one of us from the day we were concieved. Its easy to see instinct in other 'animals' but we tend to dismiss it in ourselves.

Calling the human cylons 'skinjobs' is a direct referance/homage to Blade Runner where the replicants were also referred to as skinjobs. Here, the replicants (again created by man) had absolutly no rights because they were not 'human' when in fact, the only difference was that the replicants were simply genetically engineered.

All of this I feel is based on the real world 'instinctual' need to dehumanize another group because they are part of your 'immdiate' biological subclass. We of course call it discrimination, and it has been our demon forever. Whether its Hitler and the Jews, one religion vs. another, racial, etc. Its part of our survival instinct (I'm not advocating its correctness or incorrectness - it simply exists)

Our humans and some types of monkeys are 95% genetically similiar. Its generally accepted that we and the monkeys/apes are very close on the same brance of the evolutionary tree, yet we can't interbreed with them.

On BSG, since that has happened (interbreeding) the cylons must be (if this were a real case senario) at least more than 95% genetically the same as us.
They can't even tell the difference between Cylon and Human without Baltars special test. And since these are a spacefaring people, lets assume that their medical knowledge is at least as advanced as our own.

So, I think as this show evolves the cylons are learning that they are more human than they expected to be, and the humans will come to understand that as well. And that they both need each other to survive. And all that is an analogy for our own planet. (Remember, both Ron Moore and David Eick are political science majors). It doesn't matter if you are this religion or that religion, or white, black or yellow. We all need to put some petty differences (and past atrosities) aside if we are going to survive.

Oddly enough, I AM working on a snap-kit at the moment.

I'll just ... put the crayons away...

Well lets see..........
Do you think john is working on ANOTHER, PL TOS E kitbash, or something else.

Well, I think if I were in President Roalsyn's chair, I would have made the same decision.

Yes, perhaps one day humans and cylons would come to be allies (deja vu Kirk and klingons?). But today, billions of humans have been killed and the cylons are intent on killing the few thousand survivors that remain. They woudl show no mercy.

So, if its us or them, I would prefer that it be them.

Cheers!! :)

Huzz

I think what makes the humans stop and think before they just jump on every opportunity to erradicate the Cylons are the skinjobs. If it were just centurions, I doubt they would hesitate. And that would be boring.

But the skinjobs look like humans, act like humans and tend to surprise the colonials every time they meet them. Their belief in God, the ability to have babies, show mercy, fall in love... it keeps the Colonials off balance and unable to make these tough decisions.

And from what clues I can gather, I think its all part of the Cylon's psycological mindwhack of a plan. ;)

I love it! :thumbsup:

It the old cute animal thing. We feel sorry for cute animals and are against ugly ones.

All their supposed beliefs could be programmed into them. Their ability to make babies could be just human sperm and eggs stored within them, to 'prove' they are alive.

I was looking up the crew on IMDb [star trek stuff] and noticed a listing for 'Caprica 2007. Two families, the Graystones and the Adamas, live together on a peaceful planet known as Caprica, where a startling breakthrough in artificial intelligence brings about unforeseen consequences. A spin-off of the Sci Fi Channel series "Battlestar Galactica" set 50 years prior to the events of that show.'

It the old cute animal thing. We feel sorry for cute animals and are against ugly ones.

All their supposed beliefs could be programmed into them. Their ability to make babies could be just human sperm and eggs stored within them, to 'prove' they are alive.

I was looking up the crew on IMDb [star trek stuff] and noticed a listing for 'Caprica 2007. Two families, the Graystones and the Adamas, live together on a peaceful planet known as Caprica, where a startling breakthrough in artificial intelligence brings about unforeseen consequences. A spin-off of the Sci Fi Channel series "Battlestar Galactica" set 50 years prior to the events of that show.'

Thats been known for a while.
Has it been cast yet?

To el gato; I agree. If a vote were taken umongst the humans, it would be 40,000 to 1 in favor of genocide. At the top level of leadership, a lawful order was given. It was then subverted. This cannot simply be shrugged off! Helo is guilty of Treason, Sharon (and Adama) guilty of a cover-up (if he is not turned in!) I cant imagine any sympathy for the Cylons, as they themselves, robot or human lifeform, are guilty of genocide beyond question. And still they chase down what few survivors there are to the death!

My point is and was the show seems to have been written to present a political and social statement in a very clumsy way. I could be wrong. STNG did it much better in "I BORG" (I think?) There are loopholes and plotholes all over the place here and I expected better. Just me. Thats all. Cant wait to see what happens 11/17 but I am prepared for a letdown

If it bothers you that much, why do you continue to watch the show? I'm honestly curious as when I get to a point where I'm as fed up of a show as you sound I stop watching. I've done that w/a few shows over the years.

Again, just curious. Not bagging on you.

Its a great show. I watch every week. I have no opinons I wish to share. Everything is great.

Oh, come on... It was an honest question. After you giving your opinion on all the rest I'm surprised you can't be bothered to give an honest answer.

grif- 4 times now, you speak of me, but not of the show or my opinon of the show. I am honest about my very high expectations for a show I watch evey week. I comment in this forum regarding whether my expectations were met or not. If I were not a fan I wouldnt bother posting. Some, on the other hand have no opinion. They lurk and strike out in an attempt to belittle and put others down. The witty little put downs are old to those of us that have been around. When an attempt to actually discuss a program and it failings or achievments is denegrated by people who post like anonomous little bullies is tollerated, noone beinfits. I have my opinoins. I put them forth in this forum. I attack nobody. Im curious of your opinon of the the show. Not your unsolisited opinon of me. What is your opinion on the show? (Please forgive spelling, just in from a big night out)

I've not given my opinion in this thread because:

1) It was never asked;

b) This thread wasn't created about people's opinions, but a specific event in the show; and

iii) I've given my opinion on the show ad naseum over the last several years, so didn't see a point nor need to rehash them.

However, since you asked...

I like this series a great deal. It grabbed my attention w/the Miniseries and continues to keep it w/it's generally upscale writing and what IMO is a great balance of stories that are mostly drama oriented and stories that are mostly action oriented. Like almost every TV show or movie, it has it's share of issues. No plot is w/o holes and when I enjoy the overall story and acting - as I have w/almost every episode of TNS - I can make allowances for plot holes.

Satisfied? ;)

No, my apologies for "being an anonymous bully" or whatever you seem to think I'm being just because I asked a couple of questions and made a couple of statements. I think you need to realize that I'm not "attacking you" nor am I "an anonymous bully". I'd be just as happy to engage you face-to-face on the subject as I have here. For the most part, I am genuinely curious to know why you - and others - continue to watch shows you obviously don't like or are highly disappointed in. As I said, if a show I watch gets to a point where it no longer entertains me or it makes me as agitated as you obviously are, I stop watching. I eventually did that very thing with ST:VOY and several other shows over the years that agitated me or no longer kept my attention. It just seems to me that there are better things to do than be upset over a TV show is all.

Now, you can either answer the question or ignore it - at this point, I don't really care any longer. Especially if it's going to upset you as much as it obviously has to have someone question the comments that you so actively put on an open forum.

Well, not that anyone cares, but my interest in Sci-fi programing is based on the idea that if you can take an improbable situation, like time travel, alien life forms, or what have you, and then use your imagination to some how make it believable, its better and more entertaining than cops, or lawyers, or other types of programing. That being said, I find it really compelling when its done well.

So my purpose for commenting on movies and television and all things Sci-fi, is to say"hey, that really worked for me" or "awww, I really expected better, and here's why"

It never occured to me that anyone would be interested why I feel a certain way. Thank you. I amazed that important message board poster people might really care about me and my opinons and I thank you all for allowing me this moment to express myself.

Well, that's what we're online for - to share opinions, be enlightened by others' views on different matters, etc. It's much more interesting to hear WHY someone doesn't like something I like than to just see "That show is teh suxxxor!!!11" with no further explanation. :)

Our humans and some types of monkeys are 95% genetically similiar. Its generally accepted that we and the monkeys/apes are very close on the same brance of the evolutionary tree, yet we can't interbreed with them.

On BSG, since that has happened (interbreeding) the cylons must be (if this were a real case senario) at least more than 95% genetically the same as us.

I don't think that is necessarily the case. I personally don't think that the Cylon genetics are necessarily that similar to human but, in any case, their basic structures are artificially created making them non-human in the most fundamental sense.

That which is artificially created may be programmed to merely mimick that which it seeks to become. The Cylons seek to become human but so far can only act as if they're human and their machine like nature is showing itself constantly.

The internal biology of a Cylon may be created so that it it takes the human DNA and strips away certain parts, adding machined building blocks to work in tandem with those human genetics in order to process matter and blood and such in ways in which human systems are replicated but not in fact recreated. I think this has been demonstrated to some degree by Baltar when he showed the different construction of cells in the "half-breed" child.

What I'm essentially trying to say is that the half-breed itself is artificially created and not itself a naturally (biologically) occurring phenomenom, since, by definition, it occurred at the direction of programmed machined components of the Cylon physiology.

The similarity of these machined components to human structures remains to be seen for the most part but all we can assume at this point is that they appear to function somewhat similar to human (biological) components. Shared DNA is way too much of a stretch at this point, IMHO (yet still a possibility, I must admit). :thumbsup:

In addition, I don't think they could be legitimately called "machines" if they were created using (biological) DNA. They would be closer to clones or human genetic hybrids in that case and essentially biological in nature. We've seen time and time again their machine-like qualities when interfacing with the computers on BSG, communicating with each other in a flash, and the like.

(teh suxxor 11) Ive been sounding this out for a while now. Used in context, must mean not good. Its sounds sort of cool. I will try to work it into a sentence with a group of friends and see how it goes over. (example : "The Cowboys played so teh suxxxor!!!11") ;)

"teh suxxor!!!11" is part of what's called "l33t sp3ak" - wannabe hacker talk, basically. Doesn't really work that well in Real World Speak. People just look at you like you're crazy. Yeah, I've tried.... :rolleyes:

Your minds are disordered and chaotic.
Sterilize.
Sterilize.

Wait! We surrender! We volunteer for the upgrade program!

I think you're due for a new OS. :p