As most know, the ORL is adding a Brushless class for the 2007 season. It has been decided that there was only going to be one brand/type of motor allowed to be used. But there has been much debate and some difference of opinions on which motor to use. It is a choice between the Novak 13.5 & the Novak 4300 motor. The 13.5 motor is the equivalent of a good stock motor and the 4300 is equal to a 19t motor.

Some Pros & Cons:
Option 1:
- We're afraid that the truck class will be pretty dead.
- Many drivers feel the 4300 motor is too fast.
- Many drivers feel the 4300 motor is what we need, a class faster than stock since 19t always flops.
- Practice can be frustrating because of the big difference in speed of cars on the track at the same time. Should probably need to go to some sort of controlled practice but who would handle that?

Option 2:
- We're afraid that the truck class will be pretty dead.
- Many drivers feel the 4300 motor is what we need.
- Practice goes much smother with everyone going roughly the same speed.

Option 1 & 2:
- Whichever motor we decide to use in the brushless, half will complain on the choice.

Option 3:
- Chance that having 2 brushless classes the first year will be too much too soon.
- Having the 13.5 brushless in the trucks might be the only thing that saves them.
- This helps keep the two sides (4300 vs. 13.5) happy.
- Practice can be frustrating because of the big difference in speed of cars on the track at the same time. Should probably need to go to some sort of controlled practice but who would handle that?

Option 4:
- Pretty self explanatory.

--------------------------------

Please take a moment and think about your answer, weigh the pro & cons of each. Each person is only allowed to vote once in the poll. You may leave your comments, questions and or suggestions on the thread.

We will collect and evaluate everyones comments and the poll results to make a final decision by Thanksgiving, Nov 23. I know it seemed we had already come to our decision on this matter but as many have learned, including myself, more about the brushless class and understand it all a little better there has been some change in opinions on what would be best for the series. You're input over the next couple of weeks would be helpful. But please, be constructive and realistic with your comments.


Personally I'm on the fence at the moment with my choice. Currently I'm planning on running the trucks whether it is brushed or brushless.

Thanks,
Bill

Very nice explanation Bill.

Having classes of different speeds may help to hold interest. Of course Pro Cup should be left as is but even though 19t never grabbed hold, having a 13.5 class may be somewhat redundant.

My real name is NOT Al Spina and I could care less if he endorses this message.....lol

Bill - I voted for option 3 it gives everyone 2 brushless choices and we still retain our biggest class. I know after seeing the 4300 cars at Ovalmasters thats the class I'd like to run. I like the idea of controlled practice it could be in 15 min intervals 4300 then stock and truck. Thanks for the best oval series in the country.


Doug P

I have two feelings on this. I for one want to run 4300. But I am concerned that some people can not handle the extra speed (Andrew).

Joe DiGirolamo

Now that I'm done all my voting for the day! All that I ask is that we all support the final decision for the entire 2007 season.
Peter: Doug said you can have your car back now. It's in a brown paper bag!
I'm the real Al Spina. Peter is just a "wanabe" and I endose this message.

STOCK cmon!!!

Will the real Al Spina please stand up.

....... .... . ... . ... . ....... ....... . .. . . .... . .... . ... ..= you dont care what i have to say anyway right? lol i will support orl no matter what you go with!!

I'll go with the majority but will vote what I think works best for me. NOW if I want to run truck (either brushed or not) and stock car can I do this ?????

My vote is for the 4300 class! 12th scale was a bigger joke than 19t class was. You can always control practice somewhat if need be.

I'll go with the majority but will vote what I think works best for me. NOW if I want to run truck (either brushed or not) and stock car can I do this ?????
Yes, you can run any class and as many as you'd like.

i think if the truck class went with the 13.5 i might consider running that as a second class. 1 less motor to get done. anychance you could run a 13.5 or a stock motor incase some of the truckers did not weant to buy the brushless system?

I thought about that but right now we really don't exactly know how close the speeds really are to each other. Also, which ever type TQ's and or wins the first couple races, the other type will have an endless string of complaining or they just won't run that class or the series anymore.

Complaining...............ORL..................Nev er.

One thing this poll doesn't tell us is how many would run the trucks as a brushless 13.5 and how many would only run them as brushed?

I had mentioned that I personally would run them either way. I know a few drivers that ran trucks this year are interested in running brushless next year, but would they want to do it in a truck? Thoughts?

Almost need another poll just for the truckers.
Trucks Brushed
Trucks Brushless (13.5)
Trucks Either Way

I missed most of the ORL series and not sure how things went. Like stated, no matter what is choosen, someone will not be happy. If there are too many classes, things split and make for a drag of a race.
The 13.5 motor is just a touch faster than stock. 4300 is like a 19 turn. My touch on this would be run 13.5 for a stock class. Run 4300 and see how it goes. Then run a 4cell open mod class. After the first couple races, you should know if the 4300 or open mod will have a large enough following.

But like I said, I did not run much of the ORL, so I am not sure where the intrest lies.

yeah mod!! i could get jason to come race then.Cmon

Mod, After Race two there will how many entrees????? Explain Mod at The Strand to me?

2 brushless classes?how a bout a komoto dragon class that is both fast and 24 degree.lets not be bias and remember building your motor is part of racing.comoooonnn!!!

cmon!!!!!! im all for building motors!!!!!!!

the komoto dragon is a 19t right? isn't part of the problem the fact that the orl have never able to get a consistant # of racrs for mod or 19t? what makes you think it would work this time?:confused:

You don't need two brushless classes. Run the 13.5 brushless motor.

By open mod, I mean just that. Run a brushless mod if you want. Run a mod motor. It is all up to you.

well if you look back at the orl series for the last 5 years and you will see there was a decent crowd of 19t untill the orl handout motor witch was a trinity hand wound 19t with adjustable timing.i think it will be better for the racer and tech and the guys who move up from stock will still be able to use all the brushes and springs they still have.plus not as many gearing options lol just my .03 cents i will always support and race the orl no matter what the decision is.seems like we are rushing the future

Their was always an A and B main in 19 turn I was mostly in the B that's how I know a 24 degree 19 turn would be cool. :wave:

With all this talk about how fun 19 turn was ..... then what's the problem running the 4300 as the "fast" class? If 19 turn is not too fast then neither is 4300 my 2 cents for the day

Alot of people don't want to spend, or can't spend the lute on a Brushless system, when they probably can run what they already have, or borrow a 19T just as easy..... :dude:

I sure hope we don't wind up with three stock classes. I know its not an option on the poll be a fixed timing 19T class would be a nice class to move up from stock.

Doug P

i looked back at the points on the orl web site and 2002 was the last time there was a decent turnout. by decent i mean more than 1 race that had more than 1 main. i don't know what motor ya's used that year plus i don't think there are as many racers as there were then.

would 4 classes be too many?
1-truck w/13.5 brushless
2-4300 brushless
3-stock
4-19t?
run these for the season and the losing class gets dropped for the following year.

I like the brush idea in truck and CUP since it would make the overall transistion easier. After all racing in this hobby is suppose to be a progression. And the present guys that are running stock more than likely wouldn't care if a 19t motor was lay-down or stand-up brushes. Especially since the snowbirds motor is stand-up and like working with those in preparation for that event.
In the brushless world $300 to prepare for the following season is a bit much when it should only cost $35 for a new motor. But whatever the masses decide will be fine because we are Americans and will follow whatever trend comes about and jump on that wagon.

Komodo 19t easy to get and fun to race. That would be great. No timing issues for some to worry about. Let's get a list of potential people that would do that.

Honestly, I prefer Option 3. We need a faster class. 19 Turn died when the C2 motor was no longer used. 3 classes the same speed is just crazy. I think we need to offer different options for the ORL to grow. We are supposed to be the best drivers in the North East. It is amazing so many of us can be afraid of lifting. The brushless class at Kranzels was not crazy fast. Hearing everyone talk, you would think the 4300 is comparable to a 6 turn motor.

alot of track's further north have started running a fixed timing 19 turn class with the Komodo motor and it has been taking off form what i hear.. and like ozzy said the bigger 19 turn class was with a fixed timing motor. Why not have trucks make the switch to brushless. have the fixed 19 turn class even if you just test with it at a few track's this year just to see how something like that would go over.

i'm liking this idea more i think about it and the more a read what guys are saying
it gives a good oportunity for racers to run 2 classes depending on their taste. and you can divide practice time between 19t/4300 and trucks/stock

1-truck w/13.5 brushless
2-4300 brushless
3-stock
4-19t fixed timing motor

Good idea, but I am afraid that it may spread the classes too thin.

Run either the 4300 or 13.5 Brushless motor--ortherwise the ORL will be another year behind the Midwest and South by the time ORL 2008 begins. Brushless oval is here NOW guys; and once you start running it, both you and the spectators or observers willl love it.

the real reason why 19 turn died before was i can not remember 1 clean A main i stopped just so i would not have to take my car home in a bag.........

Does anyone know how much faster 13.5 is then stock.

Joe D.

[QUOTE=losi888]Does anyone know how much faster 13.5 is then stock.

Joe D.[/QUOTE

Joe, I just ordered a 13.5 system from Kranzels. Its going to be waiting there on the 18th for Spina or someone else to try maybe even in the stock class. It should be the best way to compare and finalize the classes by Thanksgiving. I probably wont be there that day so if Al doesn't run it I hope someone will be the test dummy.

Gee, I thought I would be the perfect "test dummy".

you said it

Al you are!!!!!

I see a trend in this series on a yearly basis, by the way I like the series a lot. But every year it comes down to class and motor debate I REALLY believe that Mr. Henning, not to put you on the spot Bill, needs to set the list of classes and that would be final. No more going back and forth about this combination or that, in the real world of motorsports competition combinations have been set and have been solid in the area for at least the last 10 years. Not changing every year, with change every year you have extra added expense. With not only batteries but with motors as well and it is time to run consecutive years without such changes. That in itself makes racing more enjoyable and appealing to the person looking to come in because of a constant not constant variables.
So with that Mr Henning I propose that whatever class structure is layed out for the 2007 season it is stuck with for a minimum of 2 seasons. Irregardless of new motors released with the understanding that battery technology is changing and that would be the biggest hurdle for the following season.

the stock has has never changed. there a class you can always count on. i don't think the class changes really are expense things. the big expenses is motor & batteries and you can't control that each year. I like the fact that the battery stay the same the whole season. i think bill tries to make chnages to go with the trends and to keep thing fresh to a point. and he seems to try to listen to what the racers ask for. he usually has everything set by now but this brushless thing he hasn't been able to pin down. i had spoke with him recently abou this and i think he tries to please too many people. just pick the classes. guiys want to race and they will adjust to whatever you offer. whatever the decisions i will stand behind it.

the stock has has never changed. there a class you can always count on. i don't think the class changes really are expense things. the big expenses is motor & batteries and you can't control that each year. I like the fact that the battery stay the same the whole season. i think bill tries to make chnages to go with the trends and to keep thing fresh to a point. and he seems to try to listen to what the racers ask for. he usually has everything set by now but this brushless thing he hasn't been able to pin down. i had spoke with him recently abou this and i think he tries to please too many people. just pick the classes. guiys want to race and they will adjust to whatever you offer. whatever the decisions i will stand behind it.

actually i think the battery rule should be discussed. a few years ago when a new cell was coming out in fall we still could good cells that were being fazed out. the past 2 years they pretty much stopped production of the cell that was "old" and only make new ones. therefore if you did not plan way ahead you were hurting for fresh cells late in the season. it seems the last 2 years the tracks we race at have already started to allow the new cell for all racing except when the ORL is in town and i know for a fact we couldve had a few more entries if we wouldve allowed the new battery.
so bill any chance we can visit this rule again?
we seem to have 2 motors come out every year why not allow the new battery at the start of the fall carpet season?

alan behler

i say run it how it was said
-pro stock
-4300 brushless
-trucks 13.5 brushless
-19 turn

- with a controlled practice, and have it the same time for each track, as in a set controlled practice time so people know what time there class is out at each race with no questions.

I think we should go with that and see how each class takes off.

Bobby Scherff

I just would like to let the ORL racers know. Today at Thunder Road I reminded Ernie that 4300 Brushless class should be offered at the DEC. 9th VA. Oval race. He was in agreement and it is also an ARCOR class. So plans are in too include this class.

If you are not an ARCOR member a one day membership can be purchased( not sure of the price). This would be a great time to test the 4300 systems. Some of the guys down here are thinking of changing.

Looking at the pre race talk. It looks like this race is forming up to be a good one. With stock, 19turn and now 4300 classes. We may be getting some racers form the south also.

I have been following this thread to keep up with what classes the ORL will offer. Some of the VA. racers are looking for some other events to attend this winter. We just need to know where our equipment will match up ( Stock, truck stock, 19 or brushless). Have Car Will Travel lol

Ernie has tried very hard to supply a racing facility. Hope you can offer some support for this race.

Thanks
Larry Boyd

Results of voting are CLOSE, what will the decision be???

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=164443

This should be a new ORL class.

new track anyway

come on where is all the votes????