I have been looking online to get a 4300 motor.. Ive been told everyone is running a sintered arm with the endbell conversion.. I have not seen a 4300 listed with these items in the description.. so my question is..

are these parts only available as a conversion for the existing can?/ or is the new 4300 motors made with the new parts... Thanks in advance..

Hi Mike.

You have to convert the existing motor to run the sintered rotor. The endbell is available by itself and of course the rotor is. The upgrade kit from last year is not the same rotor. With the sintered rotor it has less rpms than stock, and more torque.

Dave

burbs,

The part number for the sintered rotor is Novak #5908, while the ribbed endbell (which is NOT a necessity), is #5919. I used the ribbed one because of it's cooling and weight. However, you do have to use the upgraded endbell because of the bearing size.

Isnt the ribbed endbell illegal, for 4300. Are you racing the BRL series?

Here are the upgrades to the 4300 allowed by BRL right from the rules.



Legal updates for this motor include

NOV5905 4300/5800 Motor Bearing & End Bell Replacement
NOV5906 4300/5800 Motor Replacement Rotor
NOV5908 Velociti Nickel-Plated Sintered Rotor may be used as a replacement for the stock rotor.
NOV5922 SS Brushless Motor Upgrade Kit
NOV5910 HV Motor Bearing & Endbell Replacemant
NOV5919 Velociti Ribbed Bearing & Endbell Replacement
NOV5920 Velociti 5.5/6.5 Bearing & Endbell Replacement (Amended 10/12/06)

jenzo,

Yeah, I am racing in the BRL series right now...which it does allow. There isn't any REAL performance gain by using the ribbed endbell anyways.

Yup your right. i thought they had a no lightening the motor rule. But i see that the ribbed bell is listed. Maybe i shouldnt have bought 2 5920 endbells. I had ribbed endbells. I ran a sintered arm in the main at vinton last sunday. I ran a stock 4300 during qualifying. I couldnt feel the difference. My lap times were the same. I used the same gearing.. Maybe i should have gone up a tooth or two.. Hmmmm next sunday..

they are about the same, but check your motor and speed control they run cooler with the sintered rotor allowing you to run a higher gear

Aren't the ribbed endbells and sintered rotors for Velocity motors only and not the 4300 series? :confused:

Thats just what the package says.. BUT the velocity sintered rotor and the ribbed endbell work perfectly in the 4300 motor.. :thumbsup:

I've started to run some BL this year. Have enjoyed the low cost, no maintence motors. Now we have sintered rotors, ribbed endbells and I'm sure more that I'm fixing to read about in this forum. Cha-Ching, Cha-Ching http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/images/icons/icon9.gif
I'm curious... not bashing or trying to be negative. What is the difference between a

sintered velocity rotor in a 4300 can

19 turn arm in a stock can

Just curioushttp://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/images/icons/icon12.gif

more torque, less RPM is what I am hearing. Great for carpet and short tracks, not so sure about the tracks you are used to running. I have no upgrades other than a GTB controller and the car is silly fast. I suggest working on the chassis and the motor will take care of it's self. JMO as the carpet guys are the only ones I have seen really getting into the upgrades.

Hmmm....I have to agree with everyone about the cost issue and others. I figured it would be a plug and go thing, and was really looking forward to it, but it hasn't turned out that way. It's the same as every other class now and everyone looks for new ways to be faster by modifying their motor...

However, it is NOT the same as putting a 19t arm in a stock can. Brushless motors have windings on the 'can' per say, while the rotor could be the same throughout the entire line of motors (even though they aren't). So, it is more considered an upgrade, as you aren't changing the windings.

Part of the issue here is that when the Novak motors first came out sintered arms were too costly to use. Since that time the cost has come down to where they can be included with some of the higher cost motors. So we now have a case where the older motors without the sintered arms can be upgraded to get the same advantage.

I posted this same thing one other time, but please explain to me how putting a new rotor in once a year has made BL just like brushed racing? BL racing requires about 20 minutes of maintenance per year. Brushed racing requires about 20 minutes of motor maintenance every other round (when you're looking to run your fastest). How is that even comparable? BL racing requires a $30 rotor once a year. Brushed racing requires 5+ motors and 50 pairs of brushes per year. That is conservative if you race regularly. How is this comparable? You guys are basically psyching yourselves out. I have not found the sintered rotor to be faster nor has anyone else who's opinion I would trust. I guess there always has to be something to complain about and if having to get a new rotor once in awhile is now people's biggest worry I suppose we're in pretty good shape.

I have not done enough testing to know for sure, but to me it almost felt like I had more rip with the old rotor. Yes, I tried using the same gearing so the motor ran cooler and I also tried gearing it up so the motor ran the same temp as with the old rotor. In both scenarios I didn't feel the new rotor was faster and almost feel like it is slower.

There is one reason it is staying in my car though. I like having some drag brake without having my speedo or radio do it.

pmsimkins.... again I was'nt bashing. I'm trying to gather as much info as I can. BL is in my area. Its on a club level now and upgrades to the motors are not going to be teched at that level. You are right on about the maintence.Cost issue for me is a little more complicated. I recently had a SS and a SS+ speedo go south on me. I'm not replacing them with the same . I have purchased a GTB. Cha- Ching. Now I'm reading about all kinds of up grades to motors. Well I have a 4300 and a 5800 that were purchased with the 2 SS speedos. They do not have any upgrades. Cha-Ching again. As an oval racer for 17 years I have on occasion purchased "go faster" equipment. Of course thats an understatementhttp://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/images/icons/icon12.gif I will continue to do so, but I'm not so sure I would have invested into BL knowing what I know now and seeing where the class is headed.

Just trying to increase my knowledge of BL.
There is one thing that does errkk me though. Everytime someone talks about an upgrade to BL they always say "but I did'nt see an increase in performance" Then why did you buy it and why did the manufacturer produce it. Upgrade equals "go faster";) So just say so.

pmsimkins.... again I was'nt bashing. I'm trying to gather as much info as I can. BL is in my area. Its on a club level now and upgrades to the motors are not going to be teched at that level. You are right on about the maintence.Cost issue for me is a little more complicated. I recently had a SS and a SS+ speedo go south on me. I'm not replacing them with the same . I have purchased a GTB. Cha- Ching. Now I'm reading about all kinds of up grades to motors. Well I have a 4300 and a 5800 that were purchased with the 2 SS speedos. They do not have any upgrades. Cha-Ching again. As an oval racer for 17 years I have on occasion purchased "go faster" equipment. Of course thats an understatementhttp://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/images/icons/icon12.gif I will continue to do so, but I'm not so sure I would have invested into BL knowing what I know now and seeing where the class is headed.

Just trying to increase my knowledge of BL.
There is one thing that does errkk me though. Everytime someone talks about an upgrade to BL they always say "but I did'nt see an increase in performance" Then why did you buy it and why did the manufacturer produce it. Upgrade equals "go faster";) So just say so.

Well I wasn't really responding to you, more to Superxray. People say they don't see an increase in performance because people aren't seeing an increase in performance. Simple as that.

Things can be upgrades without making you go faster. Why do people have anodized screws? Why do people buy new radios when their old one works fine. Why do people buy upgrade servo mounts, shock mounts, ball ends? On and On and ON. The reason is that they are there and people want to run them for whatever personal reason they have, but we all know they aren't making anyone faster.

The new rotor ought to be more durable than the old one and it makes the motor run a little cooler. Those are "upgrades", but they aren't making anyone run faster. I haven't seen anyone who has tried them back to back say any different.

I would think. just a upgrade to a bigger bearing and being ceramic would equal more rpm =More speed. A motor that runs cooler equals more speed. I do not buy that these upgrades do not help performance. The Brushless will turn into the same arguements as the Brushed motors will. it will be just another motor war. They simply cannot leave well enough alone.at the rate they are going Brushless will not have a stock class But all will be modified.Oh but those modifcations didn't help the speed any. I will not buy that mess.

I would think. just a upgrade to a bigger bearing and being ceramic would equal more rpm =More speed. A motor that runs cooler equals more speed. I do not buy that these upgrades do not help performance. The Brushless will turn into the same arguements as the Brushed motors will. it will be just another motor war. They simply cannot leave well enough alone.at the rate they are going Brushless will not have a stock class But all will be modified.Oh but those modifcations didn't help the speed any. I will not buy that mess.

So, would it be your contention that the people who have tried the two rotors back to back are all lying? Do you race BL and have you tried the rotors? Gee, I'll bet no.

For the sake of argument lets say the rotor does matter. How does that equate to a motor war? This is third indoor season people have been racing BL and there have been 3 rotors. So at that pace people will have to buy a whopping 1 rotor per year. Oh my, get your umbrella the sky is falling!

pmsimkins
For me the cost issue is this. I race 4-cell stock exclusively. I invest the majority of my time and money into being competitive in that class. BL is a second class for me. I like to run a second class at bigger events, because you have time between heats and it allows you more track time, enter BL. Low cost to get into , no motor maintence at the track, drop it in and go, AND be competitive. A perfect 2nd class even at a club race.
I commited to investing time and money into the chassis, and batts for the BL. But I was'nt prepared to invest in the speedo and motor.
I do know I'm not the only one who approached BL this way> there are a few guys in Fla. who were thinking just like me.
Is BL the only class you run?? If so then we are not comparing apples to apples. Your time and cost issues are concentrated on the BL.
I don't hesitate a second to invest in a go fast part for the 4-cell stocker if its a proven item/part.

Also anodized screws do make it go faster, at least in my dreamshttp://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/images/icons/icon7.gif

you guys are going a little overboard to be honest. Just run what you got, it works, the upgrades are play perties and that's about it. I and a few other locals believe that running the GTB controller is advantageous but all this motor hype is just is just silly. For example, I am preparing for a race coming up in a week, I am running stock and I have done more motor work and spent more money freshening up 5 stock motors than I have on my whole brushless car this past season, including tires. Then as racers do, even though I have some decent stock motors, I ordered a co27 because Wade said it pulled real hard up off the corners. I couldn't stand it, knowing he had one and I didn't, insane, isn't it, lol? I have been racing 18+ years and I know 90% of the game is chassis and tire selection but it's blue and I gotta have one, lol. Anyway my point is racing is racing but there is absolutely no comparison between brushed and brushless motors, not in power, not in efficiency and definitely not cost. I feel there will always be division over this issue but as for me I like both but brushless is my favorite.

Wade,

If you do not have the money for the rotor do not buy it! It isn't going to make a difference for you. Resist the temptation to blame a loss on not having the motor "upgrades". They aren't translating into faster laps for people. If you lose rest assured it will be due to chassis, driving or bad luck.

The people who are saying they don't make a difference are people who have tried them both. The people who are saying they do make a difference are saying "I assume....." and "I think.....". Take that for what it is worth. No one is lying to you on here.

Wow. Where do I start?

History: I've been racing over 20 years in one form or another of R/C cars. Mostly oval. I got out of 1/10th scale for the last few years because of the attatudes, brush of the month, motor of the month, car of the month....

Resent: I went to watch the 1st BRL race At CFEX and had a blast just being there. People were so nice, were competitive, and generaly had a great time. Needless to say I purchased a system and will be racing 1/10 stock again.
Today: There are those who would say many things as to how to be fast or (The fastest) at any given track. The truth is, you don't have to be the fastest one at the track. Earndheart said "You don't have to have the best equipment, just be the one who refuses to lose" To do that you have to drive. Crashing is crashing. There is no hitting in the word passing. Handling, setup, preperation, and patience are the keys.

Conclusion: I have often raced with equipment that is old, I mean 3 - 10 years old. I am usualy competitive, I've won a few times in some big races. What I try not to forget is this is a hobby. A hobby. Yes a hobby!! It's supposed to be fun, and it is. The competition is great, but it's not really who wins or who should have won, it's the contest. How well did you do against yourself? Did you match the lap times from your last race? Did you have consistant lap times that were maybe not the fastest, but string them together, are you faster?

Everyone wants to win, but only one can. The one you are really competing against is yourself. I wish you good luck and see you at the races.
And HAVE FUN!!

pmsimkins,

Please quote me as to what you are responding to? I wasn't looking to start any arguments, so I don't understand what you are referring to when you say "...you were responding more to Superxray..."

I'd be happy to elaborate on my response, but want to get this straightened out first...

Hmmm....I have to agree with everyone about the cost issue and others. I figured it would be a plug and go thing, and was really looking forward to it, but it hasn't turned out that way. It's the same as every other class now and everyone looks for new ways to be faster by modifying their motor...



That's what I was responding to. The assertion that since a rotor comes out once a year BL has turned into the same thing as every other class.

Just to clarify. I too would prefer that the class have 0 upgrades. If you go back a year and half and look at some of the discussions you'll see I advocated that i thought it was illegal to put in ceramic bearings (I don't think they make people faster, but that wasn't the point) and I said I thought we should continue to use the SS speedo until it was no longer available. Everyone jumped all over me at the time for saying that. At the time I said that i didn't think these things made a big difference just that people will perceive that they do and all the usual whining will ensue. Low and behold look what has happened! LOL.

So, my point is I'm not a huge fan of the "upgrades", but as far as expense is concerned they are no big deal in comparison to brushed racing costs. Not only that, but the only upgrade that has proven to be a bit faster is going from the SS speedo to the GTB or Sphere. A lot of guys who race frequently replace their speedo once a year anyway, so no difference from brushed racing there.

For the last time. If you don't feel like buying any of the upgrades then don't!!! If not having them is going to give you a panic attack that you're losing due to inferior motors then buy them! Find out for yourself that your lap times don't improve.

Honestly I think enough has been said on this.

pmsimkins, you are always starting trouble!! LOL & JK. I remember the ceramic bearing deal since I was the one that started that and I can tell you it makes no difference. And I have seen people run both rotors and there is no difference. That doesn't mean I won't get one sometime but I am still running the SS speedo so my first upgrade will be to the GTB sometime!!! I don't even see how people can even THINK about comparing BL to stock. There is none, not even a little. There are more stock motors that come out in a year than there have been rotors for the BL motor period. And with the BL rotor you just have to buy one to get a good one!!! If you don't want to run it because it cost too much then don't, pretty simple really.

Hi Cory. Yeah I always I make trouble! You guys must have been bored for the last year without me!

At least we're in total agreement this time!

Like I said in one of my first posts in this thread. If this stuff is people's biggest worry in BL racing then we're in pretty good shape!

I have been looking online to get a 4300 motor.. Ive been told everyone is running a sintered arm with the endbell conversion.. I have not seen a 4300 listed with these items in the description.. so my question is..

are these parts only available as a conversion for the existing can?/ or is the new 4300 motors made with the new parts... Thanks in advance..


Let it rest guys, i got my nswer in the first post...

From what i have been told the sintered rotor is not faster, BUT it runs alot cooler, 20+ degrees.. So what this does is allow a bigger gear to be run.. this in turn equals faster lap times.. Ive also been told they run the same up front, but finish stronger..

i pick up a used 4300 for 25 bucks.. im going to get the upgrades which will be another 40 or so dollars.. Ill have about65 into the motor which will still be less thenthe cost of a new motor.. Not a bad deal if you ask me.. the nice thing ive heard about BL motors to is even a 2 year old motor with the new upgrades runs just as fast as a brand new one..

I have not always been on the BL bandwagon.. however this is the only class here in wisconsin.. In order for me to race i have to follow suit.. I do now belive it is better with the release of the 13.5.. this is the new stock class.. Its sppeds are somewhat comparable.. ive heard the 13.5 is like a ripped out stocker.. so basically you get a mad motor every run.. not a bad deal..

Closed per request of the original poster.