In that discussion about other LEGAL Brushless motors, etc. One of the things we're seeing since we didn't get involved in the NoVAK brushless deal when it started is now there are what 5 or 6 different NoVAK motors (3.5,4.5,5.5,6.5,4300, 5800,13.5...) and LRP has what the Neo 1,2,3,4 star...plus the Mamba Max has a couple too, which I've got guys playing with w/ 4 cell (running receiver packs)

Not to mention that you've got Sintered Rotors, programable speedcontrols, timing adjustments...and hearing guys are or will be rewinding the field windings and playing with different size magnets.

If you have a group willing to stay with just ONE motor option (Say 4300) and ONE basic speed Control , I can see where it is going to be easy...but we've got NEW guys wanting to jump in, and they like to be "different", plus no mfg. wants to be locked out of a rules package.

If a manufacturer does not want to be locked out they can produce a motor to fit into the rules. We say 4300 Novak motor and either the novak or lrp controller only. Easy greasy!

AMEN CLIFF, if we don’t adopt standardizations NOW, the only difference between what we do now and brushless will simply be the lack of brushes!

I have to admit that I have not followed this as much as maybe I should have but it looks like to me that adapting what the BRL is doing would be a good basis to work from. Sonny has put a LOT of effort into making this thing work.

I'll throw my input in on this. I've already contacted Tekin through email and wasn't really happy with the response I got. My impression was that Tekin doesn't feel that motors like the 4300 were worth developing. I'm not trying to single out Tekin, but they might have a point. Why should we settle for a sub-standard motor just because it is what everyone is running right now? I see the issue right now as a Betamax vs VHS or more recently Blueray vs. HD-DVD.

What I would like to see is ALL of the manufacturers listen to the racers and work together to give us a race worthy motor that isn't stupid fast. I think there are enough people that are brand loyal that want to buy from a specific manufacturer. I'm not saying that the manufacturers shouldn't develop the best or fastest product they can. I just would like them to listen to the average racer and develop something for us for a change. If they prefer to only focus on factory driver's in open mod classes, then I'll stick to brushed or 4300.

From what I have seen every manufacturer is producing (or is going to produce) any number of different motors from fairly mild to stupid fast. Even Novak has the 3.5 motor which is more then most anyone can handle. Trinity will also have a number of different winds available and Mamba also has a couple of different winds.

what makes the Novak motor substandard, the fact that it's not a Tekin or any other brand? The Novak 4300 motor will run and run and is a giant leap forward from brushed racing. If the mfgr's want to build crazy fast motors, fine, but leave the "crate motor" alone. I mean "if it ain't Broke, DON"T FIX IT"

Our track standardized the brushless rules over 2 years ago and have not changed them. 5800 motor 4 cells SS or SS plus speedo. This was put into effect before the GTB and Sphere were even thought of. We have been running 6 cell brushless since the very first system ( 4 years ago) that Novak had and it was only the 5800 motor and SS speedo. When 4 cell became the way to go 6 cel 5800 was way too fast for the new guys so we adopted that motor for our Nascar class.


You guys are right the rules need to be started and stick to them otherwise why let the motors overwhelm the new guys. I don't like having brand specific rules but really how different is it fom the old days with only 2 motor mfg's EPIC and YOK's. The "resellers" were putting there stickers and brush/spring combos and zapping, balancing, straightening etc but the motor was still the same inside. Those older motor rules stated epic or yok back then too. Why shouldn't Novak be the motor of choice they started the car brushless sensored based design?

I think most mfg's Tekin, LRP and Novak don't see the oval racers as the big picture for their annual reports. They are targeting the "how fast will this RTR truck go with this new motor?"

Kind of agree with Ken. If we really think that all this development is going to oval racing, we're all sorely mistaken- we're a "pimple on a gorilla's rear" when it comes to the RC industry. But, the challenge is becoming that there is no standard, and because of the techmology that the brushless brings, I don't believe you CAN standardize it. (Hank, did you mention that before? Ken, you Pete and I have had this discussion...)
Because there is no "standard", other than what Sonny has done with the BRL, it's up to the tracks to adopt a rule package. I race three tracks that run Brushless. Pete's started it with the 5800 / SS+ package, and it's some of the closest racing I've seen. One has said BRL rules for 4300. Another has said BRL rules. So, I have two speed controls, a 5800, a 4300, a sintered rotor and endbell...
Getting a little expensive, boys... Especially when some tout brushless as our "saviour". IMO, brushless is a great modified alternative, unless you spec a certain motor, etc...

Hank,

I didn't put this in the Brushless section..because we were discussing the 19t vs ultrabird motor in OVAL...and this was a side discussion. Over here, not all the OVAL guys read the Brushless thread... But, having the title still there w/ the moved relocator should work... Thank you.

I believe the brushless is the savior of racing if left alone (no mods). We all know hundreds of guys who got into this racing thing and what was the first thing they all thought they needed? Motors. I think it's great that a new guy can come in with a proven, reliable powerplant and just race and learn about what really makes a car fast, SETUP!! It's a great class for some of us old veterans too as we have more to do in our spare time than tune motors. Don't get me wrong, I still like tuning for a special event but for weekly racing the brushless is the stuff. It's funny too that since racing brushless for the past few years, I can now seem to get any brushed motor in my box to run well without thrashing on it. When I think of how much money I have spent dyno racing instead of chassis tuning over the years it makes me a little sick, lol.

We ran Brushless at the last FOCARS race in my sons car. I was very impressed how it ran. I liked the fact that we didn't have to worry about what motor to run because every one runs the same. The Ultrabird is the motor of choice in the 19t class in the FOCARS series. I like the fact that that is a rule also.it is an attempt to keep the racing even and it has worked very well here in Florida. The big difference to me is the brushless is basically "plug and play" where as the Ultrabird though it is the spec motor in the 19t FOCARs and other classes here in Florida can be tuned with new brushes and such. To me brushless helps me being an occaisonal racer, I like the fact that i don't have to worry about tuning the motor. I like the idea that going to the track knowing my motor is as good as the others in my class I would rather spend my time worring about tuning the chassis.
As far as Novak's 4300 vs all the rest of the brushless, NovaK was first and the racers have spoken by buying that motor and forming classes to run it in. I think it is up to the manufacturers to conform or even lure away racers to use there motors. I did notice that Castle Creations has a 4600 Mamba Max set up that may be close to Novaks 4300.

.... I did notice that Castle Creations has a 4600 Mamba Max set up that may be close to Novaks 4300.
Not even close. Castle rates their 4600 as equivalent to a 12-turn or better.

yea, I have seen that motor run in an off road truck (T4) and it was just silly!