Found this on the Snowbird chat page (http://p079.ezboard.com/fsnowbirdnationalsfrm2):

Check out Snowbird poll on website

www.snowbirdnationals.com/

The thinking is this. We kill the club races. Have 2 days of practice - Tuesday and Wednesday. We start heat racing Thursday. 2 heats road and 1 heat oval on Thursday. 1 heat road and 2 heats oval Friday. Both have random heats setup for 1st 2 rounds (no more sorting). Both have resort after 2nd and after 3rd round. Saturday would have heat of road and heat of oval. Right after road heats, mains are set, and the b-mains will race saturday. winners get to run a-mains. Same for oval. Oval runs last heat. Mains are set then the b-mains are run. All this will be a new tradition for the birds = the last chance day... all the racing will be done around 9pm Saturday night and working on a pool party then afterwards... thoughts?

1 extra heat. 1 extra resort. chance for b-mains to make a.

Vote now or let others decide your fate. LOL

personally I like the idea of 4 heats and main. the b main bump up deal would be really cool

but the club races are like two xtra practice quals we are lossing a great chance to run in cars in our class not to mention it is a tradition to run the club races and start off the rest of the racing week...just my 2 cents

Shane
www.fastlanehobby.com

I agree about the club races, that was kinda like a show to see where you were stacked against everyone before qualifying. Would really HATE to see the club races go away.

I do have a question will there be a BOUNTY by RC4LESS this year again???

Thanks for the thoughts guys!

If we did this then Wed would be a couple practices with your heat race which we did last year, which seemed to work great. Our local computer guy Dave Croy has his software working great so we would have great standings to show happy hour and practice speeds. Kinda like this:

http://www.rcresults.com/clubs/2006_Trinity_Snowbirds__OVAL/

Trying to create more excitement on Saturday with a 'bump-day' - 'last-chance' feel. It could be exciting and add more to the show. I hear many that miss the 4th heat.... we will see. Thanks again for the thoughts and interest.

all this look great Mike...except the random lineup in 1st 2 heats...you should really think hard of having some sort of prequalifying procedure...either single lap time while practicing...so best cars are sorted...if not...you could get screwed by being mixed with faster or slower cars...if your a little slower...you lose alot of time ''openeing the door''...and it goes the same way if your faster...getting a chance to crash a good run...this is THE biggest race of the year...and the procedure would necessery be also...

ERic

I agree with Eric, When there are significant differences in speed things can get ugly. Besides the club races are a chance to try some things and find out what you've got.
But whatever you decide I'm sure it will be a blast just like every year, I can smell the paragon already.

Doug P

i like the bump up and whatever happans happens no sleep lots of races and other things hahaha

You can go by last years Mains to set the first qual race. Everyone else set random at the bottom....not perfect but would be better than nothing.

You can go by last years Mains to set the first qual race. Everyone else set random at the bottom....not perfect but would be better than nothing.


Thats a really good idea, seems fair.

Seems fair if you made the mains. I also agree that the guys who made the mains shouldn't get throw into a random heat with the wolves. 1 lap qualifying won't work well since almost everyone can run one good lap. The club race doesn't show much either since not everyone runs it. The extra resort is great for newbies that are quick and are in slower heats. How about leave it the same and just add the extra heat and reshuffle after 1st round. Which ever way it's still the best oval race going.

Thats a really good idea, seems fair.


seems fair how?


the only tru way to make it fare for everyone is just put the names in the pc and run the heats however the pc spits them out.

seems fair how?


the only tru way to make it fare for everyone is just put the names in the pc and run the heats however the pc spits them out.

MAn ,,, we're going backward here ...

Steve.

No going backwards on the track!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MAn ,,, we're going backward here ...

Steve.

hey don't get me wrong here I like the stacking to. I made the sportsman 19 A last year.

seems fair how?


the only tru way to make it fare for everyone is just put the names in the pc and run the heats however the pc spits them out.


How - Just because for the most part the heats will have cars capable of similar laps instead of a spread of 3,4 or 5 laps.

Doug P

dave p is right we dont care what u did last year the playing field needs to be level let the pc kick them out. as for the club race things change and it is time for a new format every one resisted change in nascar but it had to happen it was getting stale. mike knows how to put on a show so get behind him and lets make it work. one thing is not going to change though, only ten of u will make the show.----dennis

Get rid of the on-road cars then the schedule won't be a problem. :tongue:

Bump ups :thumbsup:

4 qulifying rounds: :thumbsup:

Brushless 4300 :thumbsup: (Sorry had to sneak that in) :wave:

Get rid of the on-road cars then the schedule won't be a problem. :tongue:

Bump ups :thumbsup:

4 qulifying rounds: :thumbsup:

Brushless 4300 :thumbsup: (Sorry had to sneak that in) :wave:

Perfect!

The only problem with going by past results is what about the new people attending for the first time.

Joe DiGirolamo

and if i build there car.lol

Brushless 4300 :thumbsup: (Sorry had to sneak that in) :wave:


The BRL hasnt even offically started, but the intrest created is Crazy! The race at Allens in Springfield proves 4300 Brushless is here to stay. If the 2007 Snowbirds goes without a Brushless 4300 class.....it will be a bunch of BS!

The going off of last years will put anyone that hasn't been there at a Disadvantage.....

The going off of last years will put anyone that hasn't been there at a Disadvantage.....

Yea I went to the Cleveland Indoor champs last year for the 1st time. They take the top 4 mains and put them back in the finishing spots. Then if someone isnt there they randomly sort people into those spots and the bottom heats as well. It makes it rough. But it also rewards those who have went every year and done well.

All other on road races are PURE Random sort....

The very first year of the Birds on carpet we ran 3 lap hot laps instead of a club race. Your fastest single lap put you in your heat race...It worked awesome but took a while....even with a lot less entries then its had the past few years. The only thing with that is we all know that some guys can pull a good lap out of 3 but cant put together 4 minutes clean. I think out of the A qualifier only about half actually made the A main....maybe less than that.

EA

The BRL hasnt even offically started, but the intrest created is Crazy! The race at Allens in Springfield proves 4300 Brushless is here to stay. If the 2007 Snowbirds goes without a Brushless 4300 class.....it will be a bunch of BS!

I wont say but you can bet that since Trinity has a Brushless system and they are the PRIMARY Sponsor every year, that there will be a Brushless class you can about guarentee that, but I would not limit to Just 4300, that is saying that only that type is allowed and with the amount of classes they already have having to many more would just make it even more cluttered, and you can bet that Mike is drumbing up something good for this year he has always seemed to do something new and exciting each year, so just sit back and wait like the rest of us he will give out classes as soon as he is ready............

would rather see the b mains run on Sunday. You could still bump up, but it would be a bummer if you were in the B and didn't bump up and be done racing on Saturday. Kind of leaves you with nothing to look forward to on Sunday if you are done Saturday. Its the biggest race in the world and it would be nice to run your main on the day all the other mains are run. just a thought.

Dan Hood I just looked at the result from last year and in your first 2 heats you had only 5 cars on the track. lol and your second heat 1st-3rd went 53 and 4th went 52. so how was that the gates of hell? not trying to pick on you here but you paint a really bad picture of your qualifier when actualy it was pretty darn good.


guys we all have our opinions but reality is try to set 48 heats so that all the drivers in each heat has equal level drivers is impossiable. and only doing a few is unfair to those that get left out.

mrslow i have owned well ove 100 rc cars but have never driven a lap. i could be the only car out there and not make the A. my forte is from the promoters view. when i watch a race i want to see honeycutt come from the back and work traffic like all of the good drivers can do.some people never make an A main but thats not to say they dont have just as much fun.we can't put on a show with just ten hotdogs we need everyone.this statement is for the people running stock everyone has to start some where and this is entry level so be kind to the people just starting out because the sport needs them. ps this is troys dad and my interest is helping mike put on the best show possible. so far he has done just that. thanks dennis

My one and only trip to the Bird's was year before last as a spectator. I witness a qualifier with one racer that never made a lap with out hitting someone or spinning ( it was one tough car it broke every car in the heat and keep going). He just laughed and was having a good time for himself (no one in his race was). After the heat I went out to the lobby by the pool. This racer was there with just one battery pack and a AC/DC timer type charger. Told his wife and friends (not racers) I have 8 hours before I race again and took off to site see, leaving his equipment for his return.

I can not see where this was fair to the serious first time racers in that heat. I have to wonder how many of the racers in that heat returned last year? I know that I got a bad impression and decide that I do not want to go to the time and expense to have that happen.

I can however respect the idea of trying to reward the loyal racer for attending the event. Maybe this could be worked out in some way. I know that after almost 20 years of this, that it is still a problem for major events. I was at the 1992 (I think) ROAR Oval Nationals at King, NC where they tried single car qualifying. It took all day for the 400+ entries and that was all the track time for that day. Funny thing when a certain big named MOD racer had problems in his qualifier the computer took a dump.

Random sorting is the only FAIR way of sorting heats. I get tired of hearing all the whining by "good" drivers who got put in a bad heat and that just isn't fair. If you are that good of a driver, then find a way to drive around the bad drivers. If you are like a lot of the "good" drivers I've seen over the years and can only drive under perfect conditions, then stay home so the rest of us don't have to hear you complain. If you really want to make the racing better, then make the Snowbirds an invitation only event. Or put all the factory sponsored drivers in a factory/pro class so the rest of us normal humans don't have to listen to you whine.

I make no apologies for my attitude here. Last I checked the Snowbirds isn't just for the best of the best. The attitudes of some people that they need to be rewarded by being in the "good" driver's heat because they are too good to race with bad drivers is just B.S. I also don't agree that rewarding last year's winners is a good idea either. You are just setting up a scenario the gives less incentive for new racers to come to the event.

If you want to do anything to reward racers, then all of the so-called Snowbird warm-up races should be sanctioned events. The winners of the regional races could then be rewarded by getting a better qualifying heat. In this way the racer earned the better heat by their efforts of the current year, not by riding their success of the past.

2 ways to look at everything....in 2005 I performed well in all 3 classes I entered. Knowing this..I really looked forward to '06 because I was in the "A" sort in all 3 classes I entered. Never mind that I threw it all away and re-sorted myself to the bottom. :) What I can tell you is this: it's very difficult to watch, after completing a good, fast run in the equivalent of a "c" heat of drivers in round 1, then you marshall the next group...they go nearly 4 minutes without a sound of lexan...and all of them advance...then the previous year's "A" group goes out...freight trains for 4 minutes and that's it folks.....show's full....thanks for coming. Like I said...I've had the shoe on both feet and I can say this...without a sort a greater % of entered drivers do (or feel like they do) have a shot at the show. With a sort....chances are a lot greater that the same fast guys will more than likely get their clean run in round 1 and coast until Sunday. I'm unfortunate proof that guys can fall down the ladder as easily as they can climb up it. I've got no problem either way...I do enjoy the "race" part of this hobby rather than oval bracket racing....but I understand completely what guys like Salvas say too. The new guy may think this race is a big deal...but don't think guys like Parisano, Stuber, Adam Brown, etc. don't get a little nervous for it too. It means a lot to anybody/everybody to make the "A" at the 'Birds....probably why we have 3 pages of opinions so far. :)
Dusty Kemp

I think going back this year will be good either way, I had fun and learned alot last year, going back with all intentions of driving my way around traffic and making higher than the "G"........... I noticed some of the race then sight see guys also last year but that is everywhere you go to race, some guys just do not take it as serious as others and are there to drive and not too concerned about finish while others are concerned about finish........ So to combat this go out everytime liek it was your "A" and race your way to the front and get better qualifing rounds for yourself.....

Yeah you may have to life to avoid traffic or swerve to miss an accident but you are in control of your car not them so DRIVE your car and make the "A" on your terms not theirs......

I can see both sides of the fence here and regional races would be good and bad, but I do not think that last years should automatically go again this year either...... I am sure Mike will come uip wiht a good solution to this issue, I mean he has added an extra heat with an extra resort so thats a start..........

If they stack the heats it should be stacked for all, not just the top 20 or so from previous year.
If it's random for some, it should be random for all.
The was it is currently done is the most unfair way possible.
There should be a qualifier to sort heats, it could be a lap, 4 minutes or anything in between.

i think whatever Mike Boylen wants to try this year we should let him. he runs a great show either way plus i dont think he will let us down this year. i cant wait to get back there this year for my 2nd snowbirds!

Having read every ones comments I think we are all saying the same thing. It is not necessarily the way the heats are sorted, but the guy's who show up to see how many people they can hit or take out. We all would love to be in the heat that " make a train and makes the A main" but unfortunately there is never a race that does that. I was fortunate to win the Stock A main 2 years ago, I was also fortunate to be in a heat with guy's who were very courteous and as the saying goes let the faster guy by. Having said that if they were the opposite and drove into the side of me every lap I would have most definately been in another main. My suggestion is why could they not rate guys off there practice times. They should be able to look and see who has been fast during practice and use that to some what sort the heats. What ever Mike and the crew decide will not make everyone happy. This is still the race to be at no matter what. Steve Peake

Yepper Porksalot............ no more Freshman blues for us man, its Sophomore time moving up............LOL

lol you are correct there man!

Doug,

Remember your first heat of your first snowbirds. I would give your right arm for that heat again.

Having read every ones comments I think we are all saying the same thing. It is not necessarily the way the heats are sorted, but the guy's who show up to see how many people they can hit or take out. We all would love to be in the heat that " make a train and makes the A main" but unfortunately there is never a race that does that. I was fortunate to win the Stock A main 2 years ago, I was also fortunate to be in a heat with guy's who were very courteous and as the saying goes let the faster guy by. Having said that if they were the opposite and drove into the side of me every lap I would have most definately been in another main. My suggestion is why could they not rate guys off there practice times. They should be able to look and see who has been fast during practice and use that to some what sort the heats. What ever Mike and the crew decide will not make everyone happy. This is still the race to be at no matter what. Steve Peake


Well said Steve. I assume we'll be seeing you this year.

Doug P

Steve P. and others qualifing to set the heats is out of the question. think about it that would take forever and lets not forget there is also Onroad. now basing the heat line up off practices times. impossiable also. that would require the cars to go through tech. because all you have to do is run a hot motor (13turn) lol and rip off some fast laps and bingo your in a good qualifier.

guys your thinking about yourselfs not what's best for the race.

I agree with Indyracer.

Qualifying round 1 could be single car. Maybe base it on a 5-8 lap average and tech each car just like a normal round. This would take about the same amount of time as a full timed round.

You would probably have to go back to the 3 timed qualifiers but it would be a way to sort the field.

It would take the burden off the race director to set up the heat and drivers would be in a little more control of there own destiny.


Not saying this is right or wrong it’s just an idea.

hey guys u all think u have it bad because of the heat ur in, well think about mike he has to set out the biggest race of the year but i never heard him complain. get behind him and make the 13th the best birds ever,thats what mike is trying to do.-----dennis

while we r on the subject of bump ups and qualifers mike and i have been trying to put together a program to get the racers to run the c and d mains when they think the should have been in the A. how about a little feed back. we r kinda thinking about a good bonus for someone that wins a c or d main and runs faster then the a.maybe gas money an ipod something worth ur effort.i cant believe this group does not have some ideas. give us some feed back thanks dennis

If a qualifier is used on Thursday, maybe the first one could be set with a minium of drivers (5max) to allow for a good run with less racers to slow up the race. The race time could be shorten. As it is around of qualifying with 60 heats takes about 6 to 7 hours for about 450 racers.

If you were to keep the max racers to 5 you would have 90 heats. Make the race 2 minutes long with 3 minutes between races and the total time is 7.5 hours. Using hand out motors for 19 turn and stock it should not be hard to tech for a cheater motor in the first round. Besides a racer that would do that would do it also in a four minute race.

Use the results to set Fridays heats up for the max racers to complete 4 minute runs in the time the program can be done in. This would be like getting a resort after the first round, with a better chance for a good first run. There would still be heats where racers hook up for a good run, but that is just racing.

Good luck Mike and crew. You still have the best show.

Dave I didn't say qualify to set the heats. I said take your practice times, they record your practice laps on the computer. Take a 10 lap average or what ever works for them. Use those to sort the heats. I for one don't like driving 24 hours to make it to the race let alone the money it costs. To have somebody who thinks its a game to see who all he wrecks, cost me a chance of doing my best. I don't think I should be handed a spot in the A qualifier because I have won before. I do think that if my lap times show I deserve to be, then I should be. Steve

Doug,

Remember your first heat of your first snowbirds. I would give your right arm for that heat again.


Who's arm?

I have been think about this and I would rather have 4 qualifiers and random heats than have 3 and a qual heat to set the qualifiers


we also have to keep in mind that there is onroad too. well he could always have it just a oval race !!!!!!!!!

FoamDonut,
Don't disagree with concept, except there is no one watching who is running what, stockers, will end up with 19T, 19T running mod, etc... Every practice would have to be watched like a qualifer, weight, batteries, motors etc... On top of that anyone could pilot any elses car for that matter. I can see a lot of good pilots making mad cash in practice. It would make for another long day for the work crew.
Tom

I think this is 1st year we have had this many posts.... awesome. I love it!

It is late but I will post some thoughts:

Single Lap: we did it at Thunder. There are pros and cons. Sometimes a few guys turn a wicked lap and end up with the fast guys but can't race with others on the track. We had a team one time all sandbag so they could be in the last heat. But it does at least sort guys that are capable of speeds.....

Possible New Format: If we ran 2 rounds - random - I seriously doubt anyone will end up with all 'hairballs'. There is a lot of talent that comes to the birds. So chances are the heats will be 50-50, with half the field with names you know... maybe more. Concentrate on a clean run. Do it again for the 2nd heat. Then you will get re-sorted into a faster heat. Get a good clean run - get re-sorted again for the last heat. By now you should have gotten close to where you belong. Round 4 should be good. Then if you still have bad luck there is the B-main to make it again... that's 5 shots....

Sorting the Heats: I try every year. But it is getting harder and harder. Guys change classes - so how do you put a ranking on someone from this class to a new class this year. Racers that come from for the 1st time always feel they were given unequal chance. For example - I got an e-mail awhile back from a racer named Bill Johnson. He asked about 6cell mod and if you had to be invited. I said no... but thought 'oh boy' who's this, we might have a problem. He sold a car to one of my local racers so I kinda knew him. Then I go to Marshalls. I see him on the track. In practice he drove awesome... in fact I tried to pass him for 20 laps... and he didn't give me an inch and even spun me out of 2 when I cleared him (hahahaha if he is reading he will laugh as I don't forget). But he qualed 2nd and got 2nd in the main - beating a lot of fast factory guys. Great talent.... but how would I know that trying to sort the heats ahead of time.

My opinion (as a racer) is: to race. Whatever variables you are faced, work with them. Hopefully they are close to the same as everyone.

I appreciate the thoughts.. these are some of mine (as I just drove 15 hours from PA).....

awesome post Mikey