If you can run the proto dodge I do not see what would be wrong with the Milwaukee flat sides,pointed nose,and flat back deck . :confused: If they allow the Windtunnel HDX it is wider with a low green house I am just not seeing what the problem would be.

What do you guys think please answer only if you have had the chance to compare side by side thanks.


thanks Jake

If you can run the proto dodge I do not see what would be wrong with the Milwaukee flat sides,pointed nose,and flat back deck . :confused: If they allow the Windtunnel HDX it is wider with a low green house I am just not seeing what the problem would be.

What do you guys think please answer only if you have had the chance to compare side by side thanks.


thanks Jake
we have the rules set by sonny and that's what we live by. i do know that if the body was submitted to sonny he would make a decision as to its legality one way or the other.

Thanks for the reply how do you go about doing this do I submit it or Mcallister?

Jake

If i remember correctly, Sonny is using the ROAR Approved body list. I could be wrong. The Body in question is not on the list...or maybe I overlooked it. The HDX is on the approved list so it is legal to use.

Thanks for the reply how do you go about doing this do I submit it or Mcallister?

Jake
your best bet is to contact sonny he can give you the info you need.

Hi guys just getting back in the groove after a fun week at the Ovalmasters.

To anwser a few questions.

The 2 battery rule proposed for 13.5 was removed in the final rules package.

The spoiler blade length for 13.5 and 4300 is .750”or (3/4") from the flat part on the deck lid.
(In other words on a body such as the Protoform Charger the molded part of the spoiler counts as part of this measurement)

We will be watching the 4300 cars a little closer at the next race.

MBEACH: For now we are going to stay at .750" . We will re-evaluate at the end of the season.

JDW: Sorry the McAllister body you mentioned is not approved at this time.

Thank you for removing the 2 battery rule!!

Hey Sonny, if somebody, maybe me, has an old body, can we add lexan to the back to make it legal for 13.5?

MK there was a few that did it at the first race and tech never said anything to them about it.

Hey Sonny, if somebody, maybe me, has an old body, can we add lexan to the back to make it legal for 13.5?

Since I did not clarify this before I will be lenient for the next two races. You may fill in the back of the body with lexan (NOT tape). As of January 1, 2007 all bodies in the 13.5 class will need to be one piece.

In the overall scheme of thing a body is not that expensive. Put in on your Christmas list and maybe Santa will bring it to you.

Ok, Mr Kelm will you get me a body for Christmas???? I am giving you plenty of notice. A new Charger body will be just fine.
Thanks buddy.

Jason

Sure I will Jason. :thumbsup: Wait a minute, don't you have to be nice to get presents? That would mean a lot of RC racers that I know will be getting coal in their stockings. Right little Kevin?

Hey Sonny, do we have paint the back too???:D

Ouch!!

I wish we would have kept the 2 battery rule, But oh well, can't wait to go racing this week

DANG!!!!! KELMS RIDING YOU LIKE A RENTED MULE!!!!!!!!!! :tongue: :tongue:

I was told you did well this weekend Rick.
Which rotor did you run????

MOTOR WAS FRESH OUT OF THE PACKAGE!!!! SO I AM GUESSING THE RIGHT ONE!!!!!!!! MY NAME ISN'T YOU KNOW WHO!!!! :dude: :dude:

Thats great! sounds like Mike might need a new motor!! Sounds like I might need one as well.

Looks like im gettin coal for christmas.

How often do they tech the cars just after qual and features or are they teched at all during practice

Sonny...I sure hope you're keeping tabs on the Arcor 19T issues...man what a mess!
4300 can be the savior of all that, keep it simple.:thumbsup:

How often do they tech the cars just after qual and features or are they teched at all during practice

Before and after each heat. You can bring your car up for pre-tach during practice if you like.

Sonny...I sure hope you're keeping tabs on the Arcor 19T issues...man what a mess!
4300 can be the savior of all that, keep it simple.:thumbsup:



Only when I need a good laugh.

I don't know if 4300 or 13.5 is the savior but is sure seems to have a lot of people racing and having fun instead of arguing over rules.

BRL Rules package update.
.................................................. ...............................................



General Electronic Speed Control Rules
Pro Modified
Castle Creations:
CSEMMBMAX Mamba Max ESC

This Speed Control has been removed from the approved modified list. Although meeting our requirements it has come to my attention this system will only work with 6 to 12 cells. I apologies for any confusion.

Actually, the Mamba-Max works fine from 4-12 cells. So there shouldn't be any issue at all. The cell ratings were set on a printing deadline -- not by the actual electronics themselves. We hadn't had a chance to test 4 cell operation before the printing deadline, so we decided to be conservative on the ratings.

Note that the Novak speed controls are rated 6-7 cells. They also work ok on 4 cells.

Patrick del Castillo
President
Castle Creations

I am going to ask what is probably a stupid question... I have a HPI 7430 200mm Monte Carlo body, and wanted to find out if it is legal for BRL, in 13.5 class. Thanks.

I searched this forum, but could not find anything on this.
Why is it a requirement to use a sensored speed controller under the BRL rules? So far, I have not read anywhere that the sensorless Mamba Max or the new sensorless Tekin R1 provides any speed advantage. Shouldn't they be allowed as well?

It's my opinion that you could have all of the timing adjustments in the world on the speedo's, but the motor itself has it's physical limitations. In other words, you could advance or retard the timings all you want, but the limitations will be the electromagnetic field generated by the windings, pushing the the rotor around. Firing off the timing too fast or too slow will actually slow the motor down, or stop it from forward rotation altogether. A motor with 13.5 turns will only generate an electromagnetic field of a certain strength. That is it's limitation. When the timing fires at the perfect moments, that's it. There is nothing else that will make the motor generate any more Watts of power.

the 2 speedos you speak of were no available when brl started

James35 the ESC’s you mentioned will be reviewed for next season.

I think statement below from our rules explains why.

3.) The BRL views Electronic Speed Controls (ESC) as an impact item. Although we encourage new manufactures to get involved the BRL feels it is in the best interest of the racers to monitor and control developing ESC technology as it relates to the brushless motor segment. To keep cost form spiraling out of control in the Sportsman Stock and Pro 4300 classes we have approved the following speed controls for use in the 2006/2007 winter season.

Sportsman Stock/Pro 4300

Novak:
NOV3205 Super Sport Brushless ESCNOV1705 Super Sport Plus Programable Brushless/Brush ESC
NOV1710 GTB Programable Brushless/Brush ESC


LRP:
LRP 80500 Sphere Brushless ESC
LRP 80700 Sphere Competition Brushless

I think you need to consider removing mention of specific speed controllers altogether. There is no such thing as "keeping the cost from spiraling out of control", as all of today's brushless ESC's are within $90 of eachother. As we all know, brushless has a little higher initial investment, but then is cheaper in the long run.

My main point is, why look at ESC models at all? To me, it seems unecessary. Regardless of the slight variations on the timing generated by the ESC's, the motor can only produce so much power, limited by the strength of the electromagnetic field, which is determined by the number of windings.

Make this simple on yourself and the racers, remove ESC's from the rules altogether, or at least be open to talk about this in more detail. Brushless is a breath of fresh air, producing identical power between motors, and no maintainence. Examine how the ESC's could possibly be an "impact item" when the motor itself has it's limitations.

:) :) :)

James I guess the best I can tell you is boils down to an experience and knowledge difference between you and I.
That's sounded very unprofessional. Do you know how much experience I have? Do you know who I am?

I was trying to have an intellegent conversation about the laws of physics involved and why there are limitations on ESC's under the BRL. As race director, I have brought your BRL rules to our track and would like to continue to support them, yet you seem very standoff'ish on the ESC subject.

I don't have an angenda here. I'm not making a profit on selling Mamba Max or Tekin R1's. The Mamba Max has been out for a while, and it's the cheapest ESC available. R1's are nice and small (great for 1/12th). Consider the future. Ask why are we controlling the ESC's? Why not have a little faith in the motors.

You know what, never mind. I've answered my own question. It's not a technology thing, it's a league thing.

Sonny keep doing thing's the way you have been! :thumbsup:
Great series great director!!

The rules for this year's entire BRL series (of 7 races) were set well before the first race in the series. They were well thought and are very clear. The many participants in the series have come to rely upon the rules and the format for each race. To substantially change things now (midway through the series) would be a major blunder; and that is not likely to happen. Great job Sonny--see ya in Fort Wayne.

The rules for this year's entire BRL series (of 7 races) were set well before the first race in the series. They were well thought and are very clear. The many participants in the series have come to rely upon the rules and the format for each race. To substantially change things now (midway through the series) would be a major blunder; and that is not likely to happen. Great job Sonny--see ya in Fort Wayne.

Ditto........ :thumbsup:

old guy,,,, hope to c u and jamie again, boy did we hav a blast in PA

C3

all i can say,,,,,, its been 10 years since ive seen a series this cool, remember procar, sonny the turnouts r real awesome in your series, shows the hard work u put in, i think it cool just to c some people gettn together like we use to, A threw g mains really is neat, at least all the people ive talked to who has run some of your races, had nothing but praise,,,,,,,see ya at the fort

C3

........To keep cost form spiraling out of control in the Sportsman Stock and Pro 4300 classes we have approved the following speed controls for use in the 2006/2007 winter season.

I normally try to keep my nose where it doesn't belong, but I do want to support Sonny on this one. I've yet to run a BRL, or any big race this season (family reasons have kept me out). But, I have a few terms in racing I like to use, one is "mental masturbation". Let's say the Mamba or Tekin get introduced this weekend (mind you, I'd LOVE to play with a Mamba ESC). Now, lets say one guy picks one up... Frank, or Eli, Monti.... choose your top dog... He's sitting there with his laptop programming his ESC... Goes out, smokes the field by a lap. And, let's say it had nothing to do with the speed control, but that the car and driver were just "ON" that weekend (it happens). Monday morning, hobby shops are ablaze with the rest of us mere mortals wanting to go out and get one. We, who are involved or want to be involved go to out local track with our new Mamba, smoke the club racers. Probably because we've mentally masturbated ourselves into thinking we're faster now... It's a trickle-down effect that doesn't help the BRL or hobby. There's already club racers bummed that they feel they have to spend the extra money for sintered rotors and endbells. Why? Cause a few of us that run one beat them (yet it wasn't the motor) As a guy that ran for the "Kevin Orton" Tekin for years, it'd be nice to see the unit back in contention. Not against technology, but let the series run it's course as-is... How many of us yell at NASCAR when they make mid-season changes? :)

Just to make sure everyone understands- I support Sonny having only the two speed controls. Finish the season the way you started it. Lastly, don't be in a position where there's the "speed control" of the week, etc. That's the last thing this hobby needs.

[QUOTE=oldguy]The rules for this year's entire BRL series (of 7 races) were set well before the first race in the series. They were well thought and are very clear. The many participants in the series have come to rely upon the rules and the format for each race. To substantially change things now (midway through the series) would be a major blunder; and that is not likely to happen. Great job Sonny--see ya in Fort Wayne.[/QU

COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER :thumbsup:

I agree with Brown. Not only are the rules fair and consistent, but I'd even be in favor of them extending beyond a one year period. I fought the single manufacturer (Novak) idea out of stubborness at the start, but now have seen how effective it is. Novak stuck their necks out first, and have hung with Sonny from day one....it's ok with me that they have some reward. Free enterprise is fine...look how awesome it worked in the 19 turn motor world. We racers can be our own worst enemy and I'm glad that Sonny has the stones to stay the course and keep us in check. Sonny, I may have been involved in some "promoter decisions" in my day....more than 30 years worth and I must say that you're doing an excellent job....keep it up and have a good time in Ft. Fun.

dk

for the record...this is not to discredit or humiliate anyone with differing opinions....it's merely a pat on the back for making a tough decision and sticking with it. I'm fairly certain that at some point a track or even a series will immerse with their own brushless rules package that's wide open and let's it all hang out...we'll let that play out and see the outcome.

i agree completely with sonny, us oval guys sometimes have to be protected from our selves and our "perceived advantage". right now were all pretty much on a equal level of equipment, and we really would be hurting the racing if we had the motor , battery, speed control or what ever of the week problem thrown into the mix!

Great series and rules package Sonny. Thanks for sticking to your guns.
I'm sure after the season finale some new products will be considered, tested, and possibly added for competition but to do so now could be disastrous.

Sonny, keep up the great job :thumbsup: the "brl" series isthe greatest thing in oval racing that has come along :thumbsup: as a racer we know exactly how we have to prepare our cars and equipment, no guess work and it is the same at every event, i love this and i will travel to where ever i have to, to be a part of this series. there is an awesome group of people that show up at each event,a lot of good close and fair racing, what else could a racer ask for
? imo put your car togehter the way the current rules are and prove yourself on the track :cool: i hate whiners :tongue:

I agree with everything that has been said in support of Sonny and the BRL, some tough choices have to be made and I think that Sonny has done a terrific job of coming up with a set of rules as well as enforcing them.

I have been to 3 of the 4 BRL races and I have not heard a single word about cheating or complaining that some of the racers have something that give them an unfair advantage.

This has been a terrific series and I'm sure that there are things that Sonny will look at as changes to the Series that will benefit all the racers and keep the series just as competitive as it is now.

Either i am missing something, or the guys ******* here have never even been to a BRL race. Whether you a top dog or a back marker. everyone has seemed to have a great time, whether win or lose. If you do not like the rules...........DO NOT RUN THIS "GREAT" series. Because one of the complainers here runs occasionally at our local track, and all he does is ***** there. Go figure, everyone has there right to there own opinion, but run the rules Sonny has made , or stay home. Enough said....... :wave:

I see one person complaining here, Bobby, and that's James35 (or the guy from Castle) Have they been to your local track? Just curious...

I have only been able to run one of the BRL races. And it was the smoothest operation I have ever experienced, as is the norm for all BRL races. And the most fun I have ever had at a 'big event' race. But, it is the rules package that is a large part of what makes it fun. You know what you can or can't run and they [the BRL officials] are persistent about maintaining that level of integrity.

In my opinion, if you have to become a software engineer to make your car faster with other ESC's, that may ruin it for some participants.


However, I still think mbeack2k should be limited in the number of raffle tickets he can buy. Now Sonny, that would be a good rule.:D

Racing series work when the rules are simple. BRL rules are simple. Leave 'em alone, and watch the series grow...

The BRL is the greatest series to ever hit the midwest.

Isn't the answer for the non-approved speed controls in 13.5 or 4300 to run them in the open mod class in the BRL?

I see the new 13.5 pro motor comes with a sintered rotor and different end bells like the 4300. Not sure if this is the only way they are going to make it now. Will this be legal next year