At the request of many I have started this thread to start discussions and planning of a new series. First, does everyone agree with the name of the series? This series is being started by racers for racers so your input is very important to the planning of this. Right now this is planned to be a 5 race 5 track series involving, Michiana RC (Mishawaka), Pete Russell's R/C Speedway (Elkhart), Jams R/C (Plymouth), Stateline R/C Speedway (Angola), and Summit Raceway (Fort Wayne). We are trying to still get approval from all track owners. There will be one throw out making it the best 4 of 5. The classes we are looking to run are 4 cell stock, brushes and brushless 13.5 in one class. Brushless 4300, and maybe a 6 cell stock if enough people are interested. Races will be on Sundays so they don't conflict with any club races at the participating track. Race dates will be in Oct, Nov, Jan, Feb, Mar. We want to work the dates out so they don't conflict with any of the BRL dates and any other major events already planned. I think it would be a great idea that we plan a meeting date in the next couple of weeks so all the track owners and racers can get together and discuss and finalize classes, rules, and dates. Please leave any comments and opinions towards this series. Remember this is for the racers and will be ran by the group not one or two people.

I'd also like to add that any sponsors are welcome to jump on board with race prizes and series sponsor to help buy trophies at the end of the series. I know sponsors are being strech by a lot of other races and series going on this season but anything is appreciated. Sponsors outside of the hobby are more than welcomed to.

Our track is committed to running the series.
MRCR.

Do we have any idea as to the specifics on rules for the classes yet? (body, battery, etc).

Z-main....PM sent

We'd also like to give out trophies to the top 3 finishers of each class at the end of the series. The way we can buy trophies is if any sponsors want to help out with them, sell 50/50 tickets, and or charge $20 for the race and your 20 will pay for the host tracks entry fee and the rest will go into the trophy fund. Doing this will involve a detailed and honest invoicing and accounting. Again any opinions on this are welcomed and encouraged.

Do we have any idea as to the specifics on rules for the classes yet? (body, battery, etc).



We'd like to follow the BRL rules. Again, using the BRL as a guideline we can finalize our rules by hearing what the racers want. This is why I think a face to face meeting with everyone should take place. Below are the baseline rules for the BRL which will be finalized on the 18th now. I also included the link.


Sportsman Stock - Targeted at entry level to experienced 4 cell stock racers with provisions to keep it cost reduced.
Motor: Novak Super Sport 13.5 (NOV 3413)
ESC: Any Novak or LRP brushless speed control
Battery: Any IB, IP, or GP cell 4200mAh or less ( limited to 2 battery packs for the weekend that must be pre-teched and marked)
Body: Full stock car body with spoiler only (no wings) Rear of the body must remain intact (no cut outs)
Race Length: 5 Minutes



PRO 4300
Motor: Novak Super Sport 4300 (NOV 3401)
ESC: Any Novak or LRP brushless speed control
Battery: Any IB, IP, or GP cell 4200mAh or less
Body: Full stock car body with spoiler and wing (rear cut out ok)
Race Length: 5 Minutes

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=155705

I know we don't have any dates yet but are we wanting to race a specific night of the week(friday/saturday).

I think he said races on Sundays.

Z-main,

I look forward to running this (as we talk about by way of E-mail). I am also looking forward to the BRL races (I'm going to try and make 1 or 2) I have a question for you: Do you feel that the SS speed controller would work well with the 13.5 for sportsman?

thanks

This is a good start to what could be a great series for Northern Indiana. Anything I can do to help, please let me know. I think the rules are on the money, hopefully all the tracks will participate. I'll do whatever I can in the way of helping from anything to promoting to marketing, etc...

Do you feel that the SS speed controller would work well with the 13.5 for sportsman?

thanks

It will work. I think that the GTB and LRP may be faster but if you don't want to spend alot of money and you are going just to have fun then the SS will do fine.

holy cow another series that I can not be apart of man too far to drive all the time, LOL just kidding I may have to come out and play too...... hhhhmmmmmm

Anyway can not wait, I like going to different tracks all the time better.........

But if its one track then its one track I will still come play I LOVE THIS SPORT

I think the sportsman stock should include 4-cell stock brushed motors as well. There are a LOT of them out there, and I think since the 13.5T is a relatively new motor, it'll be good comparison to the the standard stock brushed motors.

I would also be glad to be a contact point for tracks that may be interested in becoming part of this series. If anybody has contact with the other tracks, PM me, and I'll give you my cell and email.

I do agree there needs to be a place for a four-cell stock (brushed) motor. There's way too many guys running that combo to ignore. If indeed the 13.5 is on-par with a stock motor, and there's no clear advantage either way, I'd combine them. As Aaron mentioned, as it's a relatively new motor, I would assume that not too many people have one in their box. Anyone have one out there that can discuss the difference or similarity?

Brushed and brushless stock will be combined unless there is a clear advantage over the other. This is something that has to be decided on before rules and classes are finalized. Anyone with the new 13.5 feel free to give us some input. I think there is a thread somewhere about it.

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=154995

Hey, I'm one of the other owners of MRCR chiming in on this idea. I am one of the diehard oval guys that has become an owner and fully support this series. I think as far as the brushed/brushless combining of classes should be tested before commited. Something along the lines of taking two brushed cars by two capable and fairly equal drivers, get them setup where they are running very consistent with each other, then one of the guys puts a 13.5 in and the other stays the same. Slap in new batteries and run again. That way you can look at lap times and visually on the track to see if there is any real advantage one way or another.

The other option may be if there is an advantage, we could make some kind of adjusment to it. Kinda of like how drag racing allows v-twins vs. the 4 cylinder bikes in the pro stock bike class. They just have different weight rules to make them more competitive. Maybe if there is only a slight difference in brushed vs. brushless the slower of the two could have cut out rear ends, while the faster must remain closed?

That last part is just me talking out loud, just ideas. But I do think that some sort of comparison testing needs to happen before we combine two classes.

Shawn

I've read other people using them in TC and having the same results as their "hot" brushed motors. I also read that there is some other series going (I'll try and find the link) and the individual races have been won by both the brushed and 13.5. I actually havn't heard anybody say that the brushless is way faster, or way slower. I think it's pretty even based on other threads.

I also think putting the (2) together in a series like this would be an excellent test. Especially if there were a good mix of the 2.

Awesome. Glad things are coming together. I'm another MRCR racer.. Typically in the road classes.. But Sunday Oval Racing I should be able to do.. For me I would probably do 4 cell stock.. but if that is't the class I would buy a brushless and race that if needed.

I also think traveling to different tracks is a good thing.. You get to race at other venues and show your trade matter of speaking in a racing sense...

Well, hopeuflly we can get some of the area tracks involved and get this rolling in the near future... Good job guys.. Looking forward to hearing more..

Scott :wave:

Looks like alot has come along in 3 days.Talked to the stateline boys this weekendand they want touring oval included.I think like there should be 4 or 5 classes.Just don't know what all they should be.
Has anyone talked to Summit or Plymouth?

If Mi. racers are welcome to race the indiana series, i think i can bring at least 3 or 4 people for 4300. :thumbsup:

we need to have a mini class.NO Rules

Frank,
I'm not sure if your welcome in MI either!! If they do let you in I'll follow as well.
Tom

Everyone is welcomed to run this series. This is what we are trying to do. Get as many people that we can. Also any suggestions and opinions are welcomed.

Derrick, let's go run oval next weekend somewhere?

Columbus or Cincy. 4300!? Ask the guys from Stateline what kind of rules they want for touring oval. I'm starting to think that the classes we will have are Brushless 4300, 4 cell stock brushed and 13.5 together, these 2 classes will follow BRL rules. Touring oval, and an 1/18 class. I don't know about no rules with the minis though, not everyone has a mamba and lipos like some other people. We really need to get more peoples opinions on all this so we can start to finalize this. Michiana, Pete's, and Stateline are onboard with us and we are trying to get things straight with Jams and I just left Dale a message. Hopefully we can get all the tracks committed by the end of the week and schedule a meeting soon to finalize all the details of this series.

Doing a fine job! Lets go to the closest one.I'll have pete order me a ss4300 this week.Pull the speedo out of my truck.Are you going to take ss5800 car w/ you

IMO, if you open it up to one class, you might as well open it to all classes anyone wants to run. And, IMO, last year's series between JAM's (Plymouth) and MRCR (Mishawaka) was basically a club race, all classes, with little real attention paid to it. I don't think it held any more weight than a regular night. Many of the Plymouth locals didn't travel to Mishawaka, etc...
It depends on what the intentions of this series are. My only opinion is that a series of this nature, the more I hear and see of other tracks and owner's opinions is that it'd have to be run like a "touring series" such as is done in late model, ASA, etc. I'm sure most of you guys know, but it'd be run in conjunction with a local club race, and have it's own set of everything- most of those even have their own announcer! I originally thought a Sunday would be a good idea- but then again, who'd watch? Would it grow anything? If we all ran a show, say for example at Plymouth, you could promote it locally to get new blood in the door. A track like that has rentals, that could be rented out. It gives the kid in sportsman something to look forward and up to. (I was once a kid watching the modifieds, my son now does with the same desire to "be there" someday)
I'm torn, guys. I'd love to be in a series (still thinking about the BRL), and hope to run Cleveland, the Snowbirds and the Nats this year. But this series we're all talking about- is it for all of us to grow a sport, or oval? What do you guys think? I'm thinking Mishawaka (Aaron) is interested in this not just for the competition, but to help grow a class at their track and area. (Aaron, correct me if I'm wrong...) Is that what everyone else is thinking?

The biggest thing with running on sundays is that some of the track owners didn't want something like interfer with their regular club race. Plus, none of the tracks around here race on sunday so it could draw more people because it wouldn't take away from their club races and I know alot of people are always looking to race on sundays. We are trying to get oval growing again here. The guys at Stateline want to run touring cars on oval and that is also a big class at Fort Wayne. If all these guys want to race that class in this series then that just means we will have more racers. I'd like to keep this series simple but also offer classes that people want to run. Keep the opinions coming. Thats what we need.

I run @ Stateline & Summit. I'll be keeping a watch of how this progresses!

Once we get a commitment, I would be happy to open up our track for the meeting. Jams, I've been emailing them back and forth through the week. I don't think they are going to participate. I'm planning on running by Pete's place sometime this week. Possibly Thurday around noonish. ( I work fairly close by ) I've heard from one person they he didn't seem to be interested, and another person that he was interested. E-town, you have my phone number, feel free to pass that on to him if he would like to contact me.

Later,
Aaron

Once we get a commitment, I would be happy to open up our track for the meeting. Jams and I have been emailing back and forth through the week. I don't think they are going to participate. They are not interested in running on sunday. I think they WOULD run it if it was during their normal club night (Saturday, doors open at 4, racing at 7) but depending on the numbers that participate in this series, I don't think that would be enough time.

I'm planning on running by Pete's place sometime this week. Possibly Thurday around noonish. ( I work fairly close by ) I've heard from one person they he didn't seem to be interested, and another person that he was interested. E-town, you have my phone number, feel free to pass that on to him if he would like to contact me.

Also, has anybody approached summit about doing this? If somebody get's me an email address of the person that runs the oval stuff down there, I would be happy to make that contact.

As far as the Michigan people, sure, c'mon down and race. I think the "Northern Indiana" thing just came about because of the tracks people race at and are trying to get them involved. If those tracks would even like to be apart of the series, I don't see that as a problem, but since this is kinda it's 1st year, we might want to limit it to 5 tracks for organizational purposes.
Later,
Aaron

are you going to run any truck classes?

What classes do we or do we not run??!! Well, I think that is up to the organizers. I think they are open to whomevers opinion. IF we get a lot of racers in the 3 main classes (4-cell stock brush, brushless 4300, etc) then I would assume some classes would have to be dropped just so we can get the races completed. Number of drivers will determine the timeframe for the event...

I certainly don't see an issue in running other classes (1/18 or trucks or TC). Be neat to see that actually. May I suggest once they get the events in line, put up a signup sheet for the given race dates and start filling in the attendees per what classes they want to run... That way each track can schedule the appropriate time and make sure they can accomodate all the classes under the time schedule.

I think some of the classes mentioned might be Specialty Classes and might not have the numbers to make the full circuit event...?? I think that is why the majority of the racers will run in 1 of the 3 major classes...

I don't think anyone would have an issue with it, but I would tend to believe races like this are structured more to the high volume classes. But I could be wrong.. Some tracks might have high numbers on these other oval classes. I guess we will need to hear more from the racers whom are expecting to race?? Chim in guys.. Lets hear what you all think??!!

I'd like to keep this simple. Our main intentions were to get a series going with 1 or 2 popular classes. We came up with 4 cell stock and brushless 4300 because these are popular classes in the are and throughout the region. Its hard to say that these will be the only classes ran because we know there are others that want to run something else. We are also wanting to give out trophies at the end of the series but it starts to expensive to give trophies to alot of classes especially if we don't get a strong turnout for all the classes. Until we get enough drivers from the Touring car oval class, truck class, or any other class to commit to every race, its hard to guarantee that these classes will get trophies. When our series comes to your track and you want to race in a truck or TC class you are more than welcomed to but until we see a turnout for these classes at every race its not right in a sense to include those classes in the trophies. For example, if we have 15 to 20 guys every race in the stock class and the same amount in the 4300 class, those guys will be paying for the trophies and will have shown that they are committed to run every race. Its really not fair to give out trophies to those classes that only ran 1 or 2 races. I guess the point I'm trying to make is if you want a class, get enough guys to commit to run that class at every race.

Z-main,
4-cell stock w/13.5 bl motors
4-cell 4300
touring(need to come up w/rules)
truck(need to come up w/ rules)
18th scale
that covers everything except legend and indy car.

the stock/13.5, 4300, and touring I could see running. I would like to see a truck class. Is very popular @ stateline. The touring oval are ran @ stateline and Summit. 18th scale never took off over here.

This is just a thought...so don't flame me. Why don't we say the (3) are our main classes. Before we add another class, we need a paid commitment from 10 people.

The number is just a number, it can be changed. The reason I think this "could" work is we would then have enough people to justify having trophies/plaques.

OR...

Those, let's call them "alternate" classes, could run in the series, but if they don't get enough numbers to justify getting trophies/plaques whatever, they could be "demonstration" classes. Maybe running them might spark interest amung other racers or new people to run that particular class. Just exposure.

One of the reasons I think oval slowed down at our track is the number of different "types" of oval classes. Lots of classes, not enough people to fill them. Thereby it was like the same 3 people racing against each other.

I could go either way as far as only have 2-3 classes, or having multiple classes.

Also, before we pick these classes, I think we should get commitments from X-amount of tracks to run the series at their tracks, then let them have some input on what is popular at their tracks and have in common with other tracks. That will give some idea of the numbers that will run in a particular class.

those are my thoughts for the evening, and I'm tired, so they might not be totally clear. ;-) but I'm not generally very clear anyway. HA

I agree with Acyrier. If we can get enough of a commitment from the guys that want to run touring and trucks then we could give out trophies to those classes at the end of the series if we do get around 10 guys to race every race. If you guys want to run TC and trucks speak up and spread the word. Also, lets try to make plans for a meeting with track owners and racers on like the 24th. Its a sunday and the BRL rules will be out and hopefully this will give us time to get all the tracks committed and more ideas from racers. Acyrier has already given us his track as a meeting place. So come on guys lets get this going.

Derric, there is a tread for this @ http://www.statelinerc.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=408

There has been some question as to whether we (JAMS) are interested in this series that you guys have been talking about. Number one, I think the series needs to be run by the drivers (not the track owners). You develop what class of cars you want to run, go to the track owners and ask for dates to run. I guess at the beginning I thought that this series would only be one or two classes of cars. You guys keep talking about adding classes until you now seem to have enough to run a complete racing program. Personally I don't think that is how this should work because you may end up with just 3 or 4 cars in each class, but that is up to you. You may want to consider making your classes completely different from any track rules. In my opinion, if I can race my car at my home track one night a week, how many times will I really be willing to pay to race it again on a Sunday. Now if Sunday is the only day that I can race this particular class of car, then I may show up more times on Sunday. Most guys have more than one car. This way I would not have to work on multiple cars in the same night. I don't know (just a thought).

We were involved in "real" race cars for many many years. A series would bring their cars to a track and run the show (timing, scoring, tech, the whole thing). This way you do not have to get the tracks to agree on the same rules. You name your series and bring it and the drivers to the track. But if it is your series you can run it any way you like. Personally, I think the people in charge of the series should be the drivers (maybe one from each track as your directors) not the track owners. That is why we have tried to stay out of this discussion.

Now I don't really know how many drivers you are going to get. Here is what else I suggest, commit to the tracks as to how many drivers you will have show up. Say you commit to bringing in 30 drivers. At our track that would be $300 in entry fees. You had stated that the series would charge the drivers $20 each. So the series pays the track $300, if you have more drivers, you keep the extra profit, if not you still pay the track $300. Just an example, most tracks would want more than $300 to be open an extra day, but you would work that out with each track. Remember if you can build the series to have 50-60 drivers turning out to race, tracks will be wanting to host your series and this will give you the control to ask for certain things from the tracks. The difference in entry fees could be made up by retail sells of parts and (for us) food sales.

We do rent our track. I had told Aaron that we would rent the track to the series on a Sunday all day for $200. But you guys have to run the computer, tech the cars, set the races, enforce rules etc. We would be there to sell parts and open the snack bar. Now the $200 is for the first visit. If the series is major successful we may want more the next time. But everything that you collect over the $200 would go to the series. Call it our contribution.

I suggest that someone take control and recruit 4 or 5 drivers to be your directors, board, spokes people (whatever you want to call them) and get this thing started. I would suggest Todd Falkowski as a good choice. Maybe Jesse Carlton also. There are just a couple off the top of my head.

When you set your classes and rules, remember you cannot make everybody happy and maybe all classes will not be able to run at all tracks. For this series you may want to leave any kind of novice class out. There are plenty of places for beginners to race on a regular night.

Sorry, but I have no idea who any of you are, so I hope that I have not upset anybody.

I'll keep this short, as it's late, and I usually have a tendency to get long-winded. Eighteen years of this hobby will do that to you... This has been probably the best single-page in relation to this series. I think everyone, while not on the same page, are at least reading the same book.
I asked on the last page the intentions of everyone to running this series. I'm glad to see the intentions are good, not just a bunch of gearheads wanting to trade paint and cry on these forums later that night. I see a genuine interest from everyone in growing the sport- in which I'll do whatever I can to contribute. Aaron (acyrier - Michiana RC in Mishawaka) and I have had some great conversations about this, I've e-mailed back and forth a bit with JAM's (Plymouth) about it, and have talked a bit last Friday with Pete (Pete Russel's in Elkhart) All track owners had a different, but unique thought on the series, all of which deserves to be heard. Aaron has offered his track as a meeting point. It'd be great to be able to invite all the tracks we all would like consideration given to, and get a good mix of racers as well to add input to.

JAM's has a good idea- if we create a series, it should be run by an impartial group based on racers from each area. This saves the track owners from the wrath of a disgruntled racer who chooses to engage in a personal urinary contest with a track about a rule, penalty, bad marshal, tsunamis, flying cows, whatever. (Also keeps track owners from making asses of themselves- it goes both ways...) Keep in mind, if we're growing racing here, we need to promote the TRACKS and OWNERS as well as the hobby- we must protect the track owners from being the bad guys, especially the way words travel over this damn internet these days. Ya piss someone off, EVERYONE knows about it (I've even thrown a guy under the bus...wrong, but it felt good...) I thank JAM's for the mention of being a director, dictator, whatever you want to call it. I'd be glad to offer whatever I could do to help (as long as the goal is to grow the hobby) Whoever the group is, they need to be diverse, from different areas, and probably not be afraid to step up in adverse situations (completely unrelated to being drunk in a bar and calling out the sober Gordon fan sitting aside you 'cause he pronounces tire with two syllables). I've pissed off the Good Humor man, twice (and I'll do it again if he comes around!)
I've already gone on too long, but I challenge everyone to keep the good suggestions rolling. Please, don't someone come on here and say, "We need to race Grasshoppers!" Guys like Squeeker, pass the word onto the tracks like Stateline, etc... Get them talking on here. Aaron & Shawn from MRCR have been big on here, JAM's (assuming this is Bobbie writing- glad you got on here!), keep coming on here- you guys have done this, in this area, for a long time. Your tracks have been successful, and found your niche. A loudmouth like me is bound to come up with an idea you guys tried ten years ago with no success- call us out when we step on our.... well, tongues. I also have a short list of people I'd like to call to pick their brain on their series, such as Jimmy Babcock- he's got a well-run, well-promoted (Key Word- PROMOTE, remember it, it'll be on a future test!) series.

Someone mentioned the 24th for a meeting, that works for me- anyone else?

I've let Jim (New owner of Stateline) and Dale(Summit owner) know of this thread.

I don't see the 24th as being a problem, and my offer still stands about using our place as a meeting place. I think it's fairly central to everyplace. It is available all day so it doesn't matter to me what time. I think the longest drive is probably ft. wayne at about 1.5 - 1.75 hours. Maybe meeting at a restraunt for lunch, then heading to the track to meet. We can use the restraunt time to just get to know each other before engaging in conversation about the series at the series.

I'm also open to just ordering pizza or something and eating there at the track. I'm easy, doesn't matter.

Acyrier i plan on coming out friday night.Maybe z-main can meet me there.

the 24th works

Eric, I'll be there, both days.

i WOULD LIKE TO HOST ONE OF RACES AT MY TRACK BUT MY TWO BIGGEST CLASSES ARE TOURING AND TRUCK STOCK AND TRUCK MOD.WOULD LIKE TO SEE DIFFRENT CLASSES AND NOT JUST A COUPLE IT MAKES IT MORE INVITING DIFFRENT KINDS OF RACERS TO WANT TO COME AND RACE.

JIM'S STATELINE R/C SPEEDWAY INDOOR

Jim,
Can you make it to mishawaka the 24th for a meeting and we can get that pounded out. It doesn't seem like that would be a problem to run several classes. Were trying to run it on sunday's, so there should be plenty of time as long as there are plenty of racers.

Not A Problem Just Give Me A Time And Directions And I Will Be There.





Jim's Stateline R/c Speedway Indoors

Jim, hope this thing works. I had alot of fun this summer.

I Did Also And I Think If All The Track Owners Get To Gether This Will Be Big And Can Be A Every Season Thing That Everyone Looks Forward To Do.