I'd like to start a discussion on some of the rules. This thread is a good spot to start. I know that most of the racers across the country are interested in what governs this hobby, but think they don't have a voice in what really gets written. Lets fix that. I don't want a whining contest, but a real down to earth tell everyone what you really think should happen.



Your opinion does count!!!

Here are some ideas of topics and discussions:

Tell us about what goes right at your track.



Is your track QSAC sanctioned? If not, why? What can we as members do to help?



Do you volunteer your time at your track? Acknowledge those people that do.



What do you or your track officials do to promote the hobby? what do you think QSAC should do or help with?



How can you contribute?



Sponsorship?



Support?



Participation?

What do think of the QSAC rule:



In the case of a caution, all cars involved will drop to the rear of the field with the car causing the incident following the other cars involved. Drivers not obeying the flagman or race director can be penalized 1 lap. You will receive one (1) warning to move to the rear of the field.



With this rule, should the leader get hit from behind with a lapped car, the leader and the lapped car will have to go to the back.

If 3rd place is going for 2nd place, and hits the rear bumper of the second place car causing both to spin, both go to rear

If 4th place is going for 3rd place, and hits the rear bumper of the third place car causing the third place car to spin, only the 3rd place car goes to the rear.

In ARCA rules, the spinner will get a warning and the one that was spun will get his place back, pending a conversation with the participants. If the both are at fault, both go to rear. If only one is at fault, the other gets his place back. After the 3rd warning, you are DQ'ed. This is weather it is intentional or not. 90% of the time it is not intentional.

Should the rule be modified with some or all of this?
Will this make the yellow flage come out less in time?
Will this make us better drivers?
What are your thoughts?

I looked at this when you first posted it and haven't had a chance to respond.

As I understand the rules both cars involved go to the rear regardless of their respective positions in the race. I think the problem is that there are usually only one set of eyes watching the race and everything just isn't seen and even if it is seen it's often a judgment call. Did the lead car dive down on the passing car? Did the passing car believe he had the line or was he just getting frustrated? Did the lead car get out of shape passing the lapped car so that his next corner was a little slower allowing the lapped car to catch up? Unless everything that lead up to the spin is seen a call can't be made and even the most honest of drivers have a difference of opinion on exactly what happened. Mark and I had a incident this year at Royal Oak. The only place where my car was very good was going into turn three. Scott can tell you about this. He was faster in one and two, I was faster in three and four. For about a dozen laps or so we passed each other once a lap. It then boiled down to who made the first mistake or who caught traffic wrong. Anyway, I got under Mark going into three and we hit. He ended up going very high and I bounced off the inside boards. Fortunately neither of us spun but to this day we argue about who was in the right.

So with all these different scenaios how do you make fair calls? The fairest seems to be the rule as it now stands. I agree it's not perfect but short of video taping the race and stopping to review the replays, I don't know a better way to do it.

Hey Brent!! How the heck are ya?



Yep I hear you and I can't say I disagree. There are times though that some get penalized more than others because of an out of control (frustrated) driver. People will tend to drive over their heads or the cars ability far more often than they should be allowed to. This was the reason for the question. Is the rule fair all the time?

Just seems like the rule can and is taken advantage of. I’ve never seen a person be involved in 3 spins and get warned, much less penalized. But I have seen drivers involved in 6, 7, or 8 spinouts in the same race. Sometimes by them selves, but usually another car is involved.

I don’t mean to make it seem like this happens all the time, because it doesn’t.

The best time I have racing was when there was only 1 or 2 yellow flags in a 75 lap race. It’s rare, and no I didn’t win, but it sure was a blast. I think if you can cut down the amount of cautions, the racing is much better.

I am not yet a 1/4 scale racer (soon though)but I have been racing 10th scale since 89. I like the rule the way it is, I think it encourages better driving and decreases the need for a judgement call. I don't like the amount of cautions that result from this rule but is there fairer way to do it? I was @ Lagoon Park last week and the racing was pretty good in the qualifiers but it got a little dicey in the main. In 10th scale someone spins you in the main, it's "oh well" and 4 minutes is not enough time to make it up so that sucks as well. The QSAC way to me seems to be the best.

dont think the leader needs to be penalized because of a car not wanting to go a lap down sometimes you have to move somebody when they are holding you up think it should be at directors disscresion if it was rough driveing or intentional or a racing deal and you can usually tell the 3 apart

well maybe the director could hear the leader call for the lapped car to move as well. As a general rule I will give a lapped driver a couple of laps to gather his thoughts after being asked to move over maybe even 3 if second place is a ways back. But on the same token, I am not waiting until I get on the lapped car's bumper before calling for him to move. Usually this works out well and inside of 2 laps I have caught the car in front of me and they give me some room to get by. Sometimes not and they get the chrome horn, rubbin is racin! Seriously though, if someones car is bad enough to get a lap down in a 1/4 scale race wouldn't they be pretty easy to get by anyway coming off the corner and down the straight instead of trying to pass going in? I guess it comes down to patients, ability and respect. Some racers have all of these qualities, some don't..........

Having been a rae director in go-karts and RC cars anytime you can make a rule such as this, (while it may not always seem fair) and eliminate as make gray area as possible the more enforeable the rule will be. I say leave it alone.
Stuch

All great feedback!! Thank you very much. This is why I posted the question and will continue to talk about some of the rules. I want to hear what you have to say and bring these coments to QSAC so they know what they are doing is accepted or right as well as saying maybe something needs to change.



I am particularly interested in what Echeconnee said “well maybe the director could hear the leader call for the lapped car to move as well". Interesting, but it is rare that the race director will say something to a lapped car. Also, there is no comparison to 10th scale. I race both, 10th scale (for more than 20 years), but only the last couple for ¼ scale. It’s hard to keep these things under control. When a ¼ scale hits another or the fence, it’s a much higher impact and way more damage can occur.


This is why i was comparing the rules to something like ARCA or Hooters Cup car racing. These things are more like the big cars than the 10th scalers.

Keep the comments coming!!!

hey i think 1/4 has the highest quality of drivers in rc the weight the size and from what i witnessed if there not handling you got to man handle them plus gettem threw traffic that is what got me drawn to them a few weeks back when i watched them race for the frist time but QSAC could always put the 3rd corner rule in to effect that would solve the problem LOL!!!!

isn't there a blue flag with a diagonal yellow stripe in full scale NASCAR racing that is sometimes waved at a lapped car to get them to give way to the leaders?

hey echeconnee i dont blink for a 4 min race dont think i would see the flag in a 200 hundred lap race eyes would be to watery

no but you would hear the announcer over the PA. Q scale races should have 2 sets of eyes on the track anyway, in my opinion

The person that usually calls our 1/4 scale races will let the lapped cars know that the leader is coming or is there to pass.

I have watched ten of the fastest 1/4 scale racers in the country run nose to tail for many laps without incident. All one need's to do is to move up on the run line, the fast guys can get by without taking them out.

On the other hand, I have seen a few cars have a slug fest...recently...LOL

wish they would do away with there radio comunacation rule for one it is hard to hear with the cars running 2 pit man could be great spotter also dont know why they have it but you can still hear everything else with a headset on if they have a PA

isn't there a blue flag with a diagonal yellow stripe in full scale NASCAR racing that is sometimes waved at a lapped car to get them to give way to the leaders? that is where most leaders just give em the finger when they go by right

dont think the leader needs to be penalized because of a car not wanting to go a lap down sometimes you have to move somebody when they are holding you up think it should be at directors disscresion if it was rough driveing or intentional or a racing deal and you can usually tell the 3 apart dang willplankhead you already talking about intentionally moving someone out of the way and i haven't even got my 1/4 scale yet guess i will have to get one just to move your slow ride out of the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't quite understand. it was posted.If the LEADER gets bumped from behind, he and the other car goes to the back. The Leader is in the right. Why would he be penalized for getting bumped from the rear? Someone explain this one to me. Thanks

I assume it's because it eliminates the who is at fault arguement. It's not perfect but it's better than what you get in 10th scale racing IMO.

Slider,

With 10 cars on a track, it is hard to observe the whole track & see all incidents. It would be primarily the race director's judgement 75% of the time or more, when an incident occurs to decide who is at fault. So, both racers are sent to the back to keep the peace & harmony of racing intact :)

Hope this helps,

Tim

with any racing that has yellow flags involved, if you bring out the yellow you go to the rear ...all cars involved .
pretty comon practice all around the country at a short track level.

Well i can understand it keeping the peace on the track. But I guess really the only other way to look at it is well I was leading once, I can do it again. I can see this as a way to make a driver alot less agressive, if i tap him we really both get screwed, so would tend to force cleaner driving.
I should not have come down there the 18th.because my want list has just grown to a LARGE SCALE. it was to cool seeing them large cars haulin the mail.

lolol, I am so glad to hear you say that! I thought I was the only one who caught the bug

lolol, I am so glad to hear you say that! I thought I was the only one who caught the bug



Now I need a money tree. But im working on it. Torn between the Pro 1 and the WCM. Leaning more to the Pro1. But what do I know. Money will dictate that one probably.

We are going to buy the Cat 5 Disrupter.

.......

i got the bug as well. i should have stayed home on the 18th as well. i think i am going with wcm just cause that is what will ended up with.

GILYHANTREE. I hear ya on got the bug. I new dang well when i seen the Large cars Haulin butt. I would have to get one.

It's Kinda like racing a little boat. it is fun, But a large one is more fun.

When ya gittin ur's???

GILYHANTREE. I hear ya on got the bug. I new dang well when i seen the Large cars Haulin butt. I would have to get one.

It's Kinda like racing a little boat. it is fun, But a large one is more fun.

When ya gittin ur's???trying to work a deal now maybe soon but i am going to get it all nice and new looking before i hit the track

Rule sould stay as it.

Last weeks Busch race in Mexico was a perfect example of two guys that should have been put to the back.


Just thought I'd stir the pot a little.

But I still do not agree on sending the leader to the back of the pack. He had nothing to do with get packed in the rear. IMHO.

I do understand your point but, according to NASCAR rules, where did he end up?

Gotta go.

I do understand your point but, according to NASCAR rules, where did he end up?

Gotta go.

Have you ever seen a set of NASCAR rules for the Winston Cup or Nextel Cup level???

could just do like in the past. if i can't pass you . i'll just move you. you might just
get moved up a lane or perhaps in the grass, might go a lap down. or worse you might
lose it and hit the wall. Qsac racing used to be that way. but drivers were alot cleaner back then also. didn't reallly need a rule. things have changed. just look at all the nuckle heads on the highway now.
i know at our very small track here we changed the rule from the car that brings out the yellow to both cars go to rear if for example someone was helped in spinning out. makes for cleaner passing. someone started doing the bump and run on people and getting lead that way. sometimes when the bump happened , you wrecked or went to infield. so now both go to rear to stop the over aggressive driving.
you got to have give and take , more so on small tracks. this rule helped alot.
like any rule sometime you get burnt when you didnt do anything wrong. example is i didn't drive into him he braked and i couldn't react that fast. i have seen this one
guy kept getting hit in corners and getting very upset. guys kept telling him that they weren't trying to hit him. something must be wrong with your car. he didn't want to here it. turns out something was wrong. everytime he let off for corner his
brake was coming on. so several went to back when they really just got caught up in someones ill handling car. sometimes you get sent to back when hitting someone when the guy was already starting to wreck by himself when you got there. so sometime you get burn when not at fault but most of the time its a good rule .
stops guys from trying to pass at the wrong time or feel people should just pull over when they get there. As far as the bump and run, if you can do it without wrecking them. go for it. LOL done it myself on a car trying to not go a lap down. as far as im concerned he had every right stay there, i had to go though, second place was right there too. (once they go 1 lap down, next time leader gets there they should move up in corner and let him pass) some don't understand this though.

(once they go 1 lap down, next time leader gets there they should move up in corner and let him pass) some don't understand this though.

This is etiquette that is not being taught to the racers of today.

No respect or courtesy is given to the leader in most cases.

JB

I agree with all that except one thing, If you are the spiner, and you have been involved in 3 wrecks already, you should get a stop and go under the green. This might motivate those that don't want to pull over for anything or anybody. It might also prevent some of the agressive driving.

I agree with all that except one thing, If you are the spiner, and you have been involved in 3 wrecks already, you should get a stop and go under the green. This might motivate those that don't want to pull over for anything or anybody. It might also prevent some of the agressive driving.I totally agree that if a car causes three spins he obviously has problems, or has no respect for other racers. When we went to clover last may, three spins and to the pits to check your car. Still causing cautions? You're done. My opinion!!!RW

I totally agree that if a car causes three spins he obviously has problems, or has no respect for other racers. When we went to clover last may, three spins and to the pits to check your car. Still causing cautions? You're done. My opinion!!!RW

Page 10 on QSAC rules say if after 3 cautions. the car may be Black flagged. and sent to pits till hazard it resolved. "May" be black flagged. Should state will be black flagged. If the car is that ill handling it needs to be in the pits getting repaired, rather than causing more grief on the track.

Page 10 on QSAC rules say if after 3 cautions. the car may be Black flagged. and sent to pits till hazard it resolved. "May" be black flagged. Should state will be black flagged. If the car is that ill handling it needs to be in the pits getting repaired, rather than causing more grief on the track.I was also referring to drivers who don't necessarily have handling problems, but ones who have no patience. I have made goof ups but I show respect to fellow racers. I know how Letsrace feels, I race with him, and the rule of spinee and spinner has really forced guys to show some love on the track. If you dont, your fellow racers see, and your "respect" on our track dwindles. Maybe we should start a track etiquite thread. LOL GOGETEM'BIGGREEN!!! :wave:

QSAC has rules in place for the "judgement call". The decision lies soley in the hands of the race director (usually the person calling the race). He uses his & hopefully a second person's best judgement to make the right call. I've seen it go both ways...right & wrong. :)

Tim

Well at least there are some definte rules. That is a good thing.
And I wouldn't want to be the race director. I know it would be tough trying to keep a eye on all cars and knowing who caused what. knowing someone would get PO"ed.
So go to the back and drive the wheels off it, getting back up front. FUN !!!!

Well at least there are some definte rules. That is a good thing.
And I wouldn't want to be the race director. I know it would be tough trying to keep a eye on all cars and knowing who caused what. knowing someone would get PO"ed.
So go to the back and drive the wheels off it, getting back up front. FUN !!!!Yeah, I helped run a few races last year and after the field spreads out a little, it gets hard too see everything. Sometimes you have to let them sort it out and yes, some get bent, but most of the guys know when there at fault. :wave:

Knowing is not the same as admiting or taking responsibility.

Knowing is not the same as admiting or taking responsibility.You got that right!!!!! I have suggested that we should have drivers from the previous race act as "marshalls" to help the director out. A couple of guys to watch and help with calls would help. I'm with you, but I guess I dont have a choice. I necessarily dont like both cars going to the rear, but I follow the rules in place set at the track. :wave:

in a lot of the races i have been at somebodys buddy or buddys end up seeing things one sided . not that they mean to it just happens , so two cars need to go back .
also EVERYONE needs to back the race dirctor remember the pay doesn't match the job

in a lot of the races i have been at somebodys buddy or buddys end up seeing things one sided . not that they mean to it just happens , so two cars need to go back .
also EVERYONE needs to back the race dirctor remember the pay doesn't match the jobI suppose we are spoiled at Classic Hobbies. We do not have an issue with spinee and spinner rule. Everyone just follows the race directors rules and appreciates the oppurtinity to enjoy 1/4 scale racing. It does force drivers to be more forgiving and patient during races, and also betters your skills as drivers. I agree, the directors job is tough, especially when you draw 15 to 20 cars a week, and the pay is minimal. We get three heats and a feature each week. I know this is equal to, or better than the average across the country, and at 15 bucks a week, I'm not complaining. Aww man, all this talk is making my trigger finger itch, C'MON SPRING!!!!! :wave:

it's 68 deg. in lansing today

Hey John, pull the bag off your head. It's almost racing time once again.... lol

Hey John, pull the bag off your head. It's almost racing time once again.... lol

Is IHAUL John Dallaire (sp?)???

JB