An early, steam operated, straddle-beam monorail(sort of):

http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/odmeig.HtmlThat Meigs Elevated Railway is WAY COOL! Was it the first true monorail?

It certainly shows some very advanced engineering for 1886. From skimming the article, I gather that a working full-size test track was built, but the concept was never put into commercial service. It predates the famous Wuppertal monorail by 15 years.

That Meigs Elevated Railway is WAY COOL! Was it the first true monorail?...

Sorry to say, but that's all I have about Meigs monorail. I did run across something about a suspended type built in St. Paul in the mid-1880's; check recent posts at the yahoo! Monorail Society for that.

1825 - Cheshunt Railway
The first passenger carrying monorail celebrated a grand opening June 25th, 1825. It had a one-horse power engine...literally. Based on a 1821 patent by Henry Robinson Palmer, the Cheshunt Railway was actually built to carry bricks, but made monorail history by carrying passengers at its opening.
grabbed from monorail society to answer question of first monorail, to carry passengers at least
Will

Here's a Meigs photo:

http://tinyurl.com/3swrs3

Another Meigs:

http://tinyurl.com/3g4ce8

Monorails....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. How about cog railways in Z scale?

Monorails....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
You mean, you don't have Rokenboks on your N&W freight operations?

...How about cog railways in Z scale?
I bet someone's into it. And, that it's probably pretty expensive.

I haven't been on here lately, been busy with school but that is done now! :) The N scale monorail project is still moving along, with a new motor (6mm diameter planetary gearhead) that makes it much easier to build. I took a break from this to work on an update to the original RC monorail, using some of the technology from the N scale.

This makes the HO version much easier to convert and the sound board/speaker/etc are all still in there! I plan to put one on eBay next week to see if a $350 toy will really sell. For now there are some photos and stuff of both the HO and N scale on the current web site:
monorail.suzieandbob.com

The new web site, monorailmodeler.com has been ordered and should be up by Friday!

I haven't been on here lately, been busy with school but that is done now! :) The N scale monorail project is still moving along, with a new motor (6mm diameter planetary gearhead) that makes it much easier to build. I took a break from this to work on an update to the original RC monorail, using some of the technology from the N scale.

This makes the HO version much easier to convert and the sound board/speaker/etc are all still in there! I plan to put one on eBay next week to see if a $350 toy will really sell. For now there are some photos and stuff of both the HO and N scale on the current web site:
monorail.suzieandbob.com

The new web site, monorailmodeler.com has been ordered and should be up by Friday!

The work on the G scale is moving ahead slowly.
I just got done reading the Disney plan for the New York Worlds Fair monorail and will be using the pillar and beam layout drawings and measurements to construct the beamway.

The monorail it self is in the bogie development phase. I'm trying to get a set of bogies that I can swap bodys with. The idea is that with the removable bogies then I will be able to go from the MK.I to a MK.Ia, to the MK.III and up just by changing the bodies and a floor strip/connector.

The MK.Ia is what I'm calling the New York monorail as it is a stretched MK.1 with 4-4 window cars, and 4 window front and back, small dome on top and the red tail lights.

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/571/thumbs/DSC_2906.jpg

I might be doing this as a static model as well as the garden railroad set. It's the blueprint for the 1st Disney monorail done in 1954, but never built.

...I just got done reading the Disney plan for the New York Worlds Fair monorail and will be using the pillar and beam layout drawings and measurments to construct the beamway...The MK.Ia is what I'm calling the New York monorail as it is a streched MK.1 with 4-4 window cars, and 4 window front and back, small dome on top and the red tail lights.
Hi Scott,
Were these plans on exhibit at the fair?

...The N scale monorail project is still moving along...
Hi Bob,
Congrats, and glad to see you advancing model monorail technology again. :thumbsup:

Huh?
These are pre Disneyland Mk .1?s I noticed the points or decimals. If they are indeed the actual Disneyland Monos, there's no need for decimals, they were the MK 1, MK 2, and MK 3. I'm a bit confused by the decimals as your description is for the 3 DL monorails.
Will

just read back through the mono thread. I think the decimals are "your revisions" of prootyping the monos, not the Disney titles they were given. Is this right?
Will

Hi Scott,
Were these plans on exhibit at the fair?

The plans cane in a report from Andrews & Clark an engineering firm that worked with Disney and Alweg to put together the report for the fair. I believe the pdf I got of the report was from the Monorail Society.

The report was Disney's proposal to build a monorail consisting of 13,400ft of track (12,400 ft for the main beamway, and 1,000 ft of spur track) to circle the fairgrounds. The total ride time was to be 7min 28sec long.

The monorail itself was to be a 4 compartment car, 6 car train that would have seated 204 people. The ride was to have been run from 1964 to 1973( if Flushing park was developed as a recreational center) and was projected to carry 20,128,000 passengers.

The basics on the 3 monorail trains to be built were:
Length - 187ft.
Width - 6ft 6.5in
Height - 7ft 8in
Weight - 122.500 lb.gross loaded
Bogie spacing - 26ft 5in with a max. gross weight of 17,500 lbs

Cost to build- $1,660,073.00

Beamway:
Minimum radius of curvature- 350ft
Height above grade - 30ft average, 35ft at station. with varying heights to deal with utilities that couldn't be moved. Max. height at fair entrance 38ft.

All beams made of precast concrete with maximum span length of 60ft. All spans over 40ft would use prestressed concrete.

Pillars were to be built on 4 80ft driven piles.

Beamway cost - $3,200,313.00

Total cost with station and other items- $6,122,214.00

just read back through the mono thread. I think the decimals are "your revisions" of prootyping the monos, not the Disney titles they were given. Is this right?
Will

You are correct Will.

I have the habit of labeling them as such:
The Mark 1 in my twisted shorthand is the MK.I
The Mark 2 is the MK.II and so on.

The only problem I had was where to place the first design and the NYfair design, both were never built but are part of Disney's monorail history.

After looking at the worlds fair layout and the date I decided to keep track of it by calling it the MK.Ia as it was a stretched Mark 1 that maintained the Disney Mark 1 look and seating layout.

I still don't have any snappy id for the hanging bubble monorail they were working on in 54.

Here is the MR monorail done as it would have looked in N.Y.

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=80618&stc=1&d=1239314613

. . . I still don't have any snappy id for the hanging bubble monorail they were working on in 54.How about the "Streamlined Sardine Can"? With a car width of just 4-1/2 feet, that thing would have been pretty cramped. And the Moderne design was already outdated by that time. It wouldn't have looked out of place at the New York World's Fair -- the one in 1939, that is.

And, I see it maxed-out at a scorching 20 mph. But, you'd be able to watch the ride line waiters pass you by from above. :p

The width of the monorail did seem to be a problem but you can see the nice folks at Disney did solve the problem.

If you look real close at the drawing you see that the young boy has no right leg which allows them to keep the rounded interior.

An operating World's Fair layout would be cool, whether you use the Disney monorails, or just the AMFs.

An operating World's Fair layout would be cool, whether you use the Disney monorails, or just the AMFs.

It would be easy as it's just a loop. The downside to an ho scale or larger layout is the turn radius. The Disney ho set has a turn radius of 4ft, so following along then the O scale turn would be around 8ft, and G scale would come in somewhere around 16ft.

The length of the NYWF Disney train in G scale comes in at 93.5 inches so it's a bit big for me.

The Alweg design track lends itself to more real world monorails, like the Seattle line for example.

The AMF monorail does open up a few possible combination's on it's own which would be fun!
You could use the track for the Disney 54 monorail, any of the Gerry Anderson monorails from the Thunderbirds tv shows, and possibly the Saftig(sp) from Fahrenheit 451.

. . . You could use the track for the Disney 54 monorail, any of the Gerry Anderson monorails from the Thunderbirds tv shows, and possibly the Saftig(sp) from Fahrenheit 451.The Safege monorail used in Fahrenheit 451 was a short 1400-meter test track in Chateauneuf-sur-Loire in central France. The retractable stairway seen in the movie was intended as an emergency exit only.

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Orbit/1061/safege/SafegeN5.jpg


The design was never put into commercial service in France, though a licensed version was built by AMF for the 1964 World's Fair.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3118/2558675484_c2e3969800.jpg?v=0


Unfortunately, the original French monorail car was in this rather sad condition as of October 2000. I don't know what's become of it since then.

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=81109&stc=1&d=1239774159

The AMF cars ended up in Texas and seem to have been destroyed in the last couple of years.

It's a shame no museum has tried to preserve any of the old monorails.

...It's a shame no museum has tried to preserve any of the old monorails.
Well, there's Don Kirk from the Monorail Society. He's got a museum in Oregon, including a functioning track. And the Children's Museum in Philadelphia has Wannamaker's Christmas monorail.

An accident last night at 2 am on the Epcot line of the Walt Disney World monorail killed the pilot of Monorail Pink. Apparently it slammed into the back of Monorail Purple. Austin Wenneberg, 21, was the monorail pilot killed -- according to reports, he had to be cut out of the cockpit. The incident apparently happened just outside the station at the Transportation and Ticket Center. There were a handful of guests on one of the trains; they were shaken but uninjured. The pilot of Purple was taken to the hospital but was apparently also uninjured.

I'm at a loss how this could have happened; it seems several things would have had to go wrong at once. There are several safety backups in place to prevent just such an incident. The system certainly isn't dependent solely on the pilot for safe operation. There are sensors designed to shut a train down if they get too close to another train -- and they define "too close" pretty conservatively.

Just my own speculation, but perhaps the air brakes on Pink failed.

The WDW monorail system is offline today, though the parks remain open. Actually, details are a little confusing -- it might be that only the Epcot line is shut down.

This is the first fatality on the Walt Disney World monorail system's 38 years of operation.

Story here: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-disney-world-monorail-crash-070509,0,2802055.story

Qapla'

SSB

I'm at a loss how this could have happened; it seems several things would have had to go wrong at once. There are several safety backups in place to prevent just such an incident. The system certainly isn't dependent solely on the pilot for safe operation. There are sensors designed to shut a train down if they get too close to another train -- and they define "too close" pretty conservatively.

Just my own speculation, but perhaps the air brakes on Pink failed.


Qapla'

SSB

Sensors on the monorail should have indicated if there was a problem with the breaks early on, and MAPO should have locked the breaks on when the train entered the danger area.

If I'm not mistaken the MAPO system should apply the airbrakes if a monorail is closer than 2 blocks(train blocks not street blocks) away.

Part of the system monitors 3 different signals transmitted along the beamway. As a monorail comes up to another train at 3 blocks the signals drop from 3 to 2 setting off a warning for the pilot to slow down and stop at a set location- over shooting the hold point is a written reprimand, on the 3rd writeup during your employment you are removed as a pilot for the remaining length of employment at Disney.

From that point I'm not sure what happens except that if the MAPO system has to automatically sets the breaks your gone!

It is possible to override the system, and it's done when they store monorails overnight in the Contemporary Resort.
One monorail pulls in to the building and stops, then the other monorail is slowly pulled in and parked. There is a supervisor there with a manual switch to kill power to the beamway if needed.

The MAPO system is tested 2 times a day once at start up, and again around noon. The test is done by trying to get a train to enter the same block as another train. If everything is working the airbreaks will deploy each time the system is reset after the test starts.

This is the 2nd crash on the WDW monorail beamway. The 1st was when a monorail ran into a tug during filming of a commercial.

Sensors on the monorail should have indicated if there was a problem with the breaks early on, and MAPO should have locked the breaks on when the train entered the danger area.Much of my first post was based on very little information; much more is now known. Here's what actually happened:

Monorail Pink was about to be taken out of service for the night, and so it needed to be switched from the Epcot line to the Express line, so it could later switch to the spur track that goes to the maintenance barn. The switch between Express and Epcot line is just outside the Transportation and Ticket Center. At the same time, Monorail Purple was also on the Epcot line and was stopped at the TTC to load a small number of passengers going back to the Epcot parking lot.

Here were the makings of disaster. Normally, two monorails would not be so close to each other on the same beam, because MAPO would disable them. But because Pink was about to be switched, its pilot had to override MAPO. Under these conditions, maximum speed of a monorail is 15 mph. The pilot of Pink received word that he was clear to back up and the switch was ready -- he should have been backing up onto the Express beam. For whatever reason, the switch had not actually been moved, so he was still on the Epcot line. The beam curves in that area, so it would likely have been hard to see Purple behind him using his sideview mirrors.

The pilot of Purple was a 21-year-old Kissimmee resident and college program cast member named Austin Wuennenberg. For reasons as yet unknown, he didn't reverse Purple to avoid the collision. Maybe he never saw it. According to reports, the control station at the TTC was unmanned at the time. Apparently, none of the Monorail cast members on the TTC platform saw the situation in time either. Pink backed into Purple, and Wuennenberg was dead at the scene, likely killed instantly. According to reports, he had to be cut from the cockpit. All the guests on Purple were shaken but unhurt. The pilot of Pink was taken to the hospital but was uninjured physically -- he was emotionally distraught.

OSHA, Disney -- and, oddly enough, NTSB (which decided they had jurisdiction and apparently invited themselves) are investigating long-term, and Disney has already revamped procedures and installed additional sensors in this and similar areas to avoid this situation being repeated. The WDW monorail system returned to service after about 24 hours.
This is the 2nd crash on the WDW monorail beamway. The 1st was when a monorail ran into a tug during filming of a commercial.There was also a collision between two monorails in 1974, but no one was seriously hurt back then. And a car on Monorail Silver caught fire back in the '80s and had to be evacuated by Reedy Creek Fire and Rescue.

Qapla'

SSB

I heard about the 74 crash after my post. They took the front of the train that was hit and added the rear car from the train that hit it. Repainted the stripe to match the new train and it was running the next day.
The fire I found out about a while ago...
http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/571/monorailfire.jpg

Wow!

I heard about the 74 crash after my post. They took the front of the train that was hit and added the rear car from the train that hit it. Repainted the stripe to match the new train and it was running the next day.I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same with Pink and Purple now, at least after the investigations are completed. From what I understand, when Epcot opened in 1982, Disney only added two new trains (Lime and Coral). I'm sure they'll want to have as many trains as possible available and ready to run if needed.

Some Disney fans (a minority, for sure) are calling for Disney to retire the colors involved in this collision, but it seems to me they want that more so they aren't reminded of this accident than in any real memorial to this cast member. My take is that those fans knowledgeable enough to be aware of the color-coding system for monorails and what colors exist would be just as likely to be reminded of the accident when they saw any new colors on the line as they would seeing Pink and Purple. Plus, how far can they take the color system and still keep the colors easily distinguishable? The only colors that leap to mind that they haven't used that might work would be a charcoal gray (might be confused with silver at night) and maybe copper (might be mistaken for gold). They're pushing it already with Lime and Coral, if you ask me.

I'm also puzzled as to the involvement of the NTSB. They've never before investigated an incident involving a private transportation system. Unless Disney invited them, what are they doing? Did they just decide to take powers they aren't supposed to have? Sure, I want the incident investigated so the cause can be identified and eliminated, but I'm not sure the NTSB is necessary to make that happen. Disney already has a vested interest in not having this happen again.

Qapla'

SSB

I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same with Pink and Purple now, at least after the investigations are completed. From what I understand, when Epcot opened in 1982, Disney only added two new trains (Lime and Coral). I'm sure they'll want to have as many trains as possible available and ready to run if needed.

Some Disney fans (a minority, for sure) are calling for Disney to retire the colors involved in this collision, but it seems to me they want that more so they aren't reminded of this accident than in any real memorial to this cast member. My take is that those fans knowledgeable enough to be aware of the color-coding system for monorails and what colors exist would be just as likely to be reminded of the accident when they saw any new colors on the line as they would seeing Pink and Purple. Plus, how far can they take the color system and still keep the colors easily distinguishable? The only colors that leap to mind that they haven't used that might work would be a charcoal gray (might be confused with silver at night) and maybe copper (might be mistaken for gold). They're pushing it already with Lime and Coral, if you ask me.

I'm also puzzled as to the involvement of the NTSB. They've never before investigated an incident involving a private transportation system. Unless Disney invited them, what are they doing? Did they just decide to take powers they aren't supposed to have? Sure, I want the incident investigated so the cause can be identified and eliminated, but I'm not sure the NTSB is necessary to make that happen. Disney already has a vested interest in not having this happen again.

Qapla'

SSB

Disney could have ask the NTSB for assistance as a way to head off any future problems as they start to move the Disneyland system from just Disney property to a small public transportation system in Aneheim.


Your correct about the color system! They already have problems with lime, and green, as well as pink and coral getting mixed up. I don't think just the delta in the stripe is working as a fix for the problem.

Disney could have ask the NTSB for assistance as a way to head off any future problems as they start to move the Disneyland system from just Disney property to a small public transportation system in Aneheim.Are they doing that? I hadn't heard anything about it, though admittedly, I've never been to Disneyland (it's high on my to-do list!). Disney might well have invited the NTSB -- I'm sure they want to show people they're serious about making sure this never happens again.
Your correct about the color system! They already have problems with lime, and green, as well as pink and coral getting mixed up. I don't think just the delta in the stripe is working as a fix for the problem.Yeah -- the way they're used on the monorails, the differences between lime and green as well as pink and coral are pretty obvious once you actually compare them -- but someone seeing just lime who isn't really familiar with the colors would probably describe it as green. After all, it is green -- just different from the other green.

I think I have noticed in the past that you usually won't find lime and green nor pink and coral running the same line at the same time.

Qapla'

SSB

Are they doing that? I hadn't heard anything about it, though admittedly, I've never been to Disneyland (it's high on my to-do list!). Disney might well have invited the NTSB -- I'm sure they want to show people they're serious about making sure this never happens again.
Last I heard was the local service between other parks and attractions had been given the green light by Anahiem city and the county.

Yeah -- the way they're used on the monorails, the differences between lime and green as well as pink and coral are pretty obvious once you actually compare them -- but someone seeing just lime who isn't really familiar with the colors would probably describe it as green. After all, it is green -- just different from the other green.

I think I have noticed in the past that you usually won't find lime and green nor pink and coral running the same line at the same time.

Qapla'

SSB

From reading the WDW blogs it seems to happen a lot. It isn't a problem for the park guest as they see it as another ride, and if the 2 are together the stripe is different enough. The deltas are to help park employees identify the trains at a glance.

Disney Monorail training book (http://matterhorn1959.blogspot.com/2006/11/sop-saturday-monorails.html)

It's been mentioned a couple of times in this thread.

Howdy,
so hows the mk1/mk2 mono project going.. I learned a few things as I'm endeavoring to make a z scale 1959 monorail layout. the mk1 never saw the hotel, so would have to model the mk2 or later. Also the Mk1 in 59 only circled tomorrowland/ Matterhorn, no expansion til 61 so the beamway is a little different. On a great note, the entire z scale layout for this will fit on a 4 foot by 5 foot board..pretty cool!
Will

Thanks for the update, Will. I'm not working on any monorail projects right now.

I am attempting to replicate a N scale version of this like Bob Quincy.
I just purchased the small monorail diecast toy from the Disney site. There was no information regarding the size and the spring drive that Bob mentioned in his post. If anyone can tell me that I made the right purchase please post a reply. Thanks to all.

Robert Ingria

What do you suggest if I wanted to build a similar monorail for a project today? The beamway would be appoximately 5000 ft and have 2 cars and 1 free standing station. The other stations are built into the various buildings in the development. (4)

Howdy,
so hows the mk1/mk2 mono project going.. I learned a few things as I'm endeavoring to make a z scale 1959 monorail layout. the mk1 never saw the hotel, so would have to model the mk2 or later. Also the Mk1 in 59 only circled tomorrowland/ Matterhorn, no expansion til 61 so the beamway is a little different. On a great note, the entire z scale layout for this will fit on a 4 foot by 5 foot board..pretty cool!
Will

Mines going slow but progress is being made!

What do you suggest if I wanted to build a similar monorail for a project today? The beamway would be appoximately 5000 ft and have 2 cars and 1 free standing station. The other stations are built into the various buildings in the development. (4)

5000 ft???? and N scale???

And folks think the "G"scale project I'm working on is too much.

Hello, everyone - I am also very interested in modeling an N scale version of one of the later versions of Disney's monorail. I would like to ask if anyone building one of these has made any more progress, or if anyone has any updated advice on where to find drivetrain components and correctly sized models to kitbash one.

Thanks,
John

I am also interested in "G Scale" modeling of Mark 1 monorail. I am currently in the data collection stage. I still remember riding the Mark 1 in the summer of 1959 and what a thrill it was. G scale seems to come in many flavors, from 1:20, 1:29, to 1:32. swhite228 which numbers are you using? I'm thinking of 1:24 just to make the conversions easier. Also, I'm considering scaling up the Mark 1 to match the dimensions of the Mark IV. I'll appreciate any feedback as well as help with data sources.

Hi there, If you are talking about scaling up the MK1 that Rich and I made for Disney, it's already scaled to 1:48. I went through many hours and drawings with Bob Gurr on this in an effort to "Get it right". At 24th scale, your train will be:
Overall length 43.858" long breaking down as follows


cab/ passenger car 16.376" long,4.378" tall, and 3.433 wide same for Front and Rear
.79" between cars(bellows)
center passenger car, 9.528" long
straight Beamway section will be 17.896" long .834" wide,1.438" tall and a groove through each side of the beamway that's .604" wide and .84" deep


Obviously, this will help anyone else making a Mk1, Happy Hollidays

Will

The latest design is a reality now, the Mark IV, so named because it is my 4th chassis/drivetrain design, even though it is only the 2nd one actually built.
The new design is a one piece ABS chassis, much easier to make than the Mark I. The motor is a tiny (6mm) gearhead unit with internal 25:1 reduction, making the external geartrain very simple.
The radio is a Plantraco 900 MHz, tiny with a very short antenna.

Performance is great, with almost scale speeds and good proportional control (FWD & REV).

boB

http://monorail.suzieandbob.com/n_0543.jpg

http://monorail.suzieandbob.com/n.html

Thanks boB,

Always good to hear what's new in model monorails!

I love the one in Japan. The design of the trains are an interesting departure from previous Disney monorails, in that they are built to Japanese standards. That means they are much bigger than any previous Disney Monorail. Since they are part of the Disney resort on Tokyo Bay, they are of a considerably sleeker design than most other large-scale Japanese monorails.
__________________
Each individual has compelling reasons to love model railroading. But beneath these varied reasons are common threads that make it an awesome hobby everyone.

The Australian Model Train Guide (http://www.modeltrainsguide.com.au/)

It's the Mickey windows that don't work for me, the monorail itself is ok.

I am also interested in "G Scale" modeling of Mark 1 monorail. I am currently in the data collection stage. I still remember riding the Mark 1 in the summer of 1959 and what a thrill it was. G scale seems to come in many flavors, from 1:20, 1:29, to 1:32. swhite228 which numbers are you using? I'm thinking of 1:24 just to make the conversions easier. Also, I'm considering scaling up the Mark 1 to match the dimensions of the Mark IV. I'll appreciate any feedback as well as help with data sources.

Wow take a week off and you miss something for almost a year! Sorry!!!

It's 1/24 scale because it is just easier to scale the die cast MkI up than to try and decide what G scale really is!

For data I've used the blogs on Disney for photos and reference material.
Here are 2 links to the ones I like best:

http://gorillasdontblog.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2010-07-07T00%3A01%3A00-07%3A00&max-results=10

and

http://davelandblog.blogspot.com/


I joined The Monorail Society here:
http://www.monorails.org/

I googled the heck out of the words "monorail", "Disney Monorail" and " Disney MkI monorail".

And I had a chance to talk to Wbnemo1 (Will) about the process he and Rich used in making the Master Replica MKI diecast. He suggested I buy the diecast which I did (he told me 1 week before the prices on ebay jumped to $600 so I got it cheap! Thanks for the push!!!!) and he suggested the DVD "The Disney Monorail Story" from Extinct Attractions which I think is now out of the dvd market thanks to a Disney C&D.

There may be more but that's all I can think of at the moment.

tell me about it...lol still wanting to do a Z scale mk1...it will happen
Will

tell me about it...lol still wanting to do a Z scale mk1...it will happen
Will

Looking foward to it and your Super Train!