With ROAR and ARCOR working on allowing 4200's why are we stopping at 4200's? GP has 4300's. So when do we make them legal, if we are making 4200 the limit January 1st or sooner? Why even have a limit? You know they are coming. Why do we have to go through this battery deal every six month to a year?

Our hobby is at the mercy of what is being produced and the newest is always what racers buy, approved or not approved.

You know as well as God made green apples, the matchers are going to match the newest, making the previous ones obsolete, you all know, because you all jump on the band wagon when they do. You have then as soon as they are available, then wonder when the organizations are going to make them legal immediatly?

http://www.gpbatteries.com.hk/html/products/specialty_toys.html

Hey JB,

I understand why Roar and Arcor put the limits on the batteries in the first place but even with them doing that it still doesnt stop the battery MANUFACTURES from coming out with new stuff. IB done what no other battery Manufacture has done in the past. Discontinue a battery BEFORE the next one was legalized. Even though us matchers had already started on 4200's, because all the Non santioned races were allowing them, we were still doing the 3800's untill IB stopped producing them.

I know that Roar is looking at making some changes in battery rules but nothing set in stone.

Email me if you want to know what is going on behind the scenes....It may be benificial to you. eamotorsports@bellsouth.net

EA

In really no way is it the MANUFACTURES, It first comes to the MATCHERS AND RACERS, if we didn't buy them/match them that would kind of put them in a hard spot, Do you really think they would just say oh well and quit making batteries??? I don't think so,

Is was a little diffrent in the days of Sanyo we where in there mercy due to the fact that they didn't need us to make money, Now with GP and IB we are bigger then the previous times of Sanyo so really we could do something about it but we don't.

Why, because the racers got tired of the "battery of the wekk" that was happening only a few years back.... do we so soon forget? Sure, each lot of IB cells were generally better then the previous lot, but for the vast majority of racers, they were still 3800s.

What would happen if a company stopped producing a legal cell and they were no longer available during a year? I guess everyone would be in the same boat, you use old cells or maybe even switch to using another brand... I'm sure some other company would come up with decent cells to fill in for the other company's lack of cells.

Or want to get radical? If a company is trying to FORCE a new product on the racer before they are legal, then don't don't make their new cells legal the next year... when their sales drop by 50% maybe they'll think twice the next time they try to pull such a stunt. But of course no racing org. would have the gonads to do such a thing ;)

Hell, why have ANY battery rules, why not open it up to LiPos or any other type of battery that comes along?

When did IB stop production of the 3800 cell ??

You do not have to look that far back to Remember when all was well, it came in the form of 2 letters......GP, now we have another 2 letter company that will distroy racing it is......IB,

Besides the GP-4300 cell being junk , the actual mah of that cell is 4100 as printed on the label.
Trinity has stopped selling all 4300 cells :confused:

R.S.

Besides the GP-4300 cell being junk , the actual mah of that cell is 4100 as printed on the label.
Trinity has stopped selling all 4300 cells :confused:

R.S.

Junk i wouldn't say that just over rated, WOW i dont have any clue what other company had a bunch of junk cells!!Hmmmm

GP may have overratted there cells, but they have NEVER made a junk cell, like many other companys.

We (USA) think it's all about US, guess what, every other country runs the 4200, and have been for some time, so theres no demand for 3800's anywhere but here.

Same shrink makes it legal...So, just improve the cell and keep the same shrink...Sound familier???

Our ROAR, NORCCA, and whoever else you can think of, rules don't amount to a hill of beans in the big picture.

Junk i wouldn't say that just over rated, WOW i dont have any clue what other company had a bunch of junk cells!!Hmmmm

GP may have overratted there cells, but they have NEVER made a junk cell, like many other companys.

Well I agree , the first blue cells were a joke and I sent back many a pack to different matchers for a refund.
I still don't understand why manufacturers use us " the public" as their test market ? Why don't they do better R & D before they release them.
Sounds like something an american car manufacturer would do.

R.S.

When did IB stop production of the 3800 cell ??


Anyone know ??

Anyone know ??

August 1st.

EA

In really no way is it the MANUFACTURES, It first comes to the MATCHERS AND RACERS, if we didn't buy them/match them that would kind of put them in a hard spot, Do you really think they would just say oh well and quit making batteries??? I don't think so,

Is was a little diffrent in the days of Sanyo we where in there mercy due to the fact that they didn't need us to make money, Now with GP and IB we are bigger then the previous times of Sanyo so really we could do something about it but we don't.

Your so far off base you cant even see the playing field!! IB, GP, Sanyo, etc does NOT make these batteries just for our toy cars!! They could really care less about it. For every 1000 cells we use in RC they sell 100,000 to other industries!! Those industries are always wanting more capicity!! They could care less about how low the IR's are or how high the average voltage is.

Fact is the battery manufacuters (IB, GP, Sanyo, etc) control what we get to use for our toy cars.

EA

right on EA

What would happen if a company stopped producing a legal cell and they were no longer available during a year? I guess everyone would be in the same boat, you use old cells or maybe even switch to using another brand... I'm sure some other company would come up with decent cells to fill in for the other company's lack of cells.

Or want to get radical? If a company is trying to FORCE a new product on the racer before they are legal, then don't don't make their new cells legal the next year... when their sales drop by 50% maybe they'll think twice the next time they try to pull such a stunt. But of course no racing org. would have the gonads to do such a thing ;)

Hell, why have ANY battery rules, why not open it up to LiPos or any other type of battery that comes along?

Yes everyone would be in the same boat...Run your old stuff or complain enough to Racing Organizations to allow the newer cells. Yea some other company might be able to come up with a replacement but it wouldnt be legal either till Jan 1st!!

See above post for 2nd paragraph answer.

Are you aware that the USA and UK and maybe 1-2 more countries are the ONLY countries in the world that limit and put battery restrictions in place for a year? All others are legal as soon as they hit the market.

EA

Your so far off base you cant even see the playing field!! IB, GP, Sanyo, etc does NOT make these batteries just for our toy cars!! They could really care less about it. For every 1000 cells we use in RC they sell 100,000 to other industries!! Those industries are always wanting more capicity!! They could care less about how low the IR's are or how high the average voltage is.

Fact is the battery manufacuters (IB, GP, Sanyo, etc) control what we get to use for our toy cars.

EA


I am off base, You almost left out the most important part in that para.

SANYO sells 100,000 cells to every 1,000 that IB GP ect. combined, WHY are we not running there cells????

Because we the racers CHOOSE to run the latest and greatest cells, so in short we choose to keep buying new cells and matchers have to provide them, So now how is that off base?????

I am off base, You almost left out the most important part in that para.

SANYO sells 100,000 cells to every 1,000 that IB GP ect. combined, WHY are we not running there cells????

Because we the racers CHOOSE to run the latest and greatest cells, so in short we choose to keep buying new cells and matchers have to provide them, So now how is that off base?????

If you think the IB cells were bad to start off with you should go buy some GP4300's or GP3700's and try to match them. IB's cells are so much more consistant in each batch that there is no comparison.

I will give you one thing...If IB hadnt came along with their cell that is consistant in each batch, meaning its easy to match packs out of 400 cells at a time, then there would probably only be 1/5th of the matchers still in this. The small ones that buy 2-3 cases at a time could not do it....GP's were simply too inconsistant and there is a lot of JUNK in their cases. That is something that racers dont know about as they never see those.

Hell SMC is having to put 1.21-1.22 4200's in STICK PACKS just to keep up with their demand!! IB's quality control is 1000 times better than any other battery manufacture ever has been!!

EA

another home run EA.

I will give you one thing...If IB hadnt came along with their cell that is consistant in each batch, meaning its easy to match packs out of 400 cells at a time, then there would probably only be 1/5th of the matchers still in this. The small ones that buy 2-3 cases at a time could not do it....GP's were simply too inconsistant and there is a lot of JUNK in their cases. That is something that racers dont know about as they never see those.


EA

I never said the Newer IB's where junk,

My main point Is it just was better when we could run the same MAH for 3 years, instead of going from 3300, to 3600, to 3800, to 4200 within 1 Year

That really is my Only point

I never said the Newer IB's where junk,

My main point Is it just was better when we could run the same MAH for 3 years, instead of going from 3300, to 3600, to 3800, to 4200 within 1 Year

That really is my Only point

I agree with you 100%!! I wish we could get a battery manufacture to do that as well!! I would be a lot more comfortable buying 6-10 cases of cells and KNOWING for a fact that they wouldnt be obsolete by the time I got them off the matchers!! I dont think you'll see anything other than 4200's submitted this year.

The only battery I can remember that we ran for longer than a year was the 2400's. And the main reason, in my opinion, is that it took longer for the battery companies to get transfered over for Nicad's to Nimh's. The 3300's were around for a while as well and were great when they first got into it working with Danny at SMC....but they (GP) got greedy and ruined that.

EA

I agree with you 100%!! I wish we could get a battery manufacture to do that as well!! I would be a lot more comfortable buying 6-10 cases of cells and KNOWING for a fact that they wouldnt be obsolete by the time I got them off the matchers!! I dont think you'll see anything other than 4200's submitted this year.

The only battery I can remember that we ran for longer than a year was the 2400's. And the main reason, in my opinion, is that it took longer for the battery companies to get transfered over for Nicad's to Nimh's. The 3300's were around for a while as well and were great when they first got into it working with Danny at SMC....but they (GP) got greedy and ruined that.

EA


Wow I never thought the day would come....We both agree'ed on something.....LOL

I have said my peace

Good Luck and keep turning Left

Adrian C.

P.S. Sanyo still makes 2400 hint..hint .....LOL

Bring back the Sanyo 1200scr

Loved those cells.
man I am showing my age, I ran those 21 years ago. lol

Bring back the Sanyo 1200scr

Loved those cells.
man I am showing my age, I ran those 21 years ago. lol

You were how old? 2 or 3? Cause you dont look much older than 21 anyway...Cupcake!! LOL

EA

Sanyo 2000 Best One Ever !!!!

Oh And I Say Open It Up My .02

Erock,

Wasn't the SCR a 1400 mah and red with big voltage at the time 1.14 at 20 amps. Simply awesome by todays standards. :p

SL

Sanyo 2000 Best One Ever !!!!

Yes once the Exclusive between Epic and Sanyo was bypassed through Canada and everyone besided Epic could get good cells!! LOL

EA

The only battery I can remember that we ran for longer than a year was the 2400's.

Funny you use THIS cell EA, I never owned even ONE these packs. One of the ONLY packs I didn't get caught with.

NORRCA had legalized the 2400's and 3000's about the same time that year...EVERYBODY tried 3000's (Which Sucked) but we could NOT get the GP2200 Green Meanies legalized cause they had generic shrink wrap. (They were awesome for an early NiMh battery)

[QUOTE=swtour]Funny you use THIS cell EA, I never owned even ONE these packs. One of the ONLY packs I didn't get caught with.

NORRCA had legalized the 2400's and 3000's about the same time that year...EVERYBODY tried 3000's (Which Sucked) but we could NOT get the GP2200 Green Meanies legalized cause they had generic shrink wrap. (They were awesome for an early NiMh battery)[/QUOTE

I may have been wrong...It may have been the 2000's I was thinking about. I know there for a coulpe of years it seemed like we ran the same cells... But then again I was young, in college and didnt have much money to spend on RC!! So that could have been it too!! LOL

EA

If there was no battery rule, wouldn't the battery distributor and matchers have a major advantage? I mean if a 4600 mah cell came out...only a select few would have that cell at first.

EA when yourself or SMC calls IB do you gentleman ever ask how much longer the cell you're about to buy 6-20 cases of will be in production until the next latest greatest? And in turn since you are at the forefront being a matcher then a heads up could be given to the consumer and readjust your order qty. Afterall if there are others in the world that buy these cell, as there are, then the flow of latest cells might not be such an issue. And the sanctioning bodies may as well be able to update sooner and not get caught up in the who, what, why, where, and when as is the case every year.
Just curious, because such actions may reduce these issues.

Slightly off the subject but related ,,,,we just assembled 50 + spec packs for our local track from bulk SANYO 1900 SCR cells and with what they have shown with a few cycles should be great for a low amp draw spec motor.
No , they don't even compare to the current IB cells but do still have a place in our sport for entry level racing.

Thanks for your feedback EA !!!
Much appreciated

R.S.

If there was no battery rule, wouldn't the battery distributor and matchers have a major advantage? I mean if a 4600 mah cell came out...only a select few would have that cell at first.

That depends on the company. I am sure Team drivers would get them first to test and make sure they are a dependable cell but I doubt they would be allowed at most races/tracks untill avaible to the public....This is how it works in other countries.

You will see weight rules for batteries next year too. There will be a tolerance put on the submitted cell. There is one cell on the market now that was submitted at 66 grams and now off the shelf cells weigh 72-73 grams. Do you think that manufacture has an advantage over others?

EA

EA when yourself or SMC calls IB do you gentleman ever ask how much longer the cell you're about to buy 6-20 cases of will be in production until the next latest greatest? And in turn since you are at the forefront being a matcher then a heads up could be given to the consumer and readjust your order qty. Afterall if there are others in the world that buy these cell, as there are, then the flow of latest cells might not be such an issue. And the sanctioning bodies may as well be able to update sooner and not get caught up in the who, what, why, where, and when as is the case every year.
Just curious, because such actions may reduce these issues.

I dont personally talk to IB....But Danny does. Battery companies are pretty tight lipped about most stuff right untill they do something....such as stop producing a cell or come out with a new one. If I had to guess I would say they tell that info about a month before its announced in other places...but thats just a rough guestimate!!

With the way sanctioning bodies have rules setup now it doest matter when they (manufactures) tell them about these kinds of things.... It would be much easier for racers if everyone worked together on it though!!

EA

And you havent grown much since those cell...lololllolololoolooolololl//ROFLMFAO

Just out of curiosity,what is wrong with a new better cell every year?

I see nothing wrong with a new cell every year. When it's sooner than a year (as it would be with no battery rule) then I would have a problem with it.


You will see weight rules for batteries next year too. There will be a tolerance put on the submitted cell. There is one cell on the market now that was submitted at 66 grams and now off the shelf cells weigh 72-73 grams. Do you think that manufacture has an advantage over others?


My honest answer...I don't really see how that manufacturer would have any advantage as long as the cell was within the rules. The cell might be better than their previous cell and/or better than other manufacturers cells, but "advantage"? no, because the other manufacturers can do the same thing (make their cells heavier).

Since this got off track, I might as well chime in. I think the real issue is the MFG changing the cell whenver they want to and not having to resubmit the cell. Any time they tweak the cell to gain more or less anything out of it, it should be forced to have the shrink wrap changed and resubmitted. It has happen so many times in the last few years with a few companies, it is gettign out of control. I'm all for improving products, but please follow and inforce the rules we have. I hate the idea of having an approval date once a year. It should be open just like motors. For all the people that will complain about the battery of the month due to the open approval process. I say whats the difference from what's happing now. At least by forcing the MFG to change the wrap you know what's going on.

I see nothing wrong with a new cell every year. When it's sooner than a year (as it would be with no battery rule) then I would have a problem with it.



My honest answer...I don't really see how that manufacturer would have any advantage as long as the cell was within the rules. The cell might be better than their previous cell and/or better than other manufacturers cells, but "advantage"? no, because the other manufacturers can do the same thing (make their cells heavier).

Other manufactures dont do this....The come out with a new cell in new shrink wrap and wait for the normal approval time. Making cells better with better voltage or better IR's is fine... That doesnt change the weight of a cell. What changes the weight is MAH....Putting cells with larger mah than what is submitted is the problem.

EA

I understand making the cell heavier will result in more mah. If the cell submitted was a lesser mah than the rule, like 3600mah and the rule was 3800, and later the cell was redesigned to a 3800 and was within all specs I don't see a problem. If the cell was made to be over 3800mah then I don't know...I don't know or understand the ruling on how mah's are figured in. I thought all cells were really more mah than they say on the label. Not sure though, don't look at that much when I cycle a pack.
This isn't off topic. I am just trying to learn and understand this whole battery deal.

From JB the original post editied: With ROAR and ARCOR working on allowing 4200's why are we stopping at 4200's? Why even have a limit? You know they are coming. Why do we have to go through this battery deal every six month to a year?

Our hobby is at the mercy of what is being produced and the newest is always what racers buy, approved or not approved.

You know as well as God made green apples, the matchers are going to match the newest, making the previous ones obsolete, you all know, because you all jump on the band wagon when they do. You have then as soon as they are available, then wonder when the organizations are going to make them legal immediatly?



From EA 08/22/06:I understand why Roar and Arcor put the limits on the batteries in the first place but even with them doing that it still doesnt stop the battery MANUFACTURES from coming out with new stuff. IB done what no other battery Manufacture has done in the past. Discontinue a battery BEFORE the next one was legalized. Even though us matchers had already started on 4200's, because all the Non santioned races were allowing them, we were still doing the 3800's untill IB stopped producing them. Answer: Isn’t that basically what I just said?



From TQCELLS 08/22/06: Our ROAR, NORCCA, and whoever else you can think of, rules don't amount to a hill of beans in the big picture. Answer:NORRCA is a dead issue and yes you are correct our rules (ROAR and ARCOR) don’t amount to a hill of beans. I can see it now, the battery manufactures get letters from ROAR and ARCOR saying we will not allow/approve their batteries, because they don’t meet size or mH specifications. Here’s their answer: http://www.widro.com/throwpaper.html (http://www.widro.com/throwpaper.html)



From EA 08/22/06 IB, GP, Sanyo, etc does NOT make these batteries just for our toy cars!! They could really care less about it. For every 1000 cells we use in RC they sell 100,000 to other industries!! Those industries are always wanting more capicity!! They could care less about how low the IR's are or how high the average voltage is.

Fact is the battery manufacuters (IB, GP, Sanyo, etc) control what we get to use for our toy cars. Answer: Read what Eric said, refer to above answer. Another fact of the matter is, even though ROAR and ARCOR have a limit on batteries, the matchers will ignore it anyway. Why? Because, you the racers will buy the “latest and greatest”, approved or not. even if, you gain 1/1000 of a sec on the track. (a fool and his money soon part).

From EA 08/22/06: Are you aware that the USA and UK and maybe 1-2 more countries are the ONLY countries in the world that limit and put battery restrictions in place for a year? All others are legal as soon as they hit the market. Answer: Doesn’t take a PHD., to figure out this answer: Quit worrying about battery approval and run what ‘s the latest and greatest. Which goes back to this from EA: “Non santioned races were allowing them” to which you can add “my local track allows them weekly”.



From ME21:I am off base, You almost left out the most important part in that para.SANYO sells 100,000 cells to every 1,000 that IB GP ect. combined, WHY are we not running there cells????

Because we the racers CHOOSE to run the latest and greatest cells, so in short we choose to keep buying new cells and matchers have to provide them, So now how is that refer to above posts



From Tommy Gun 08/23/08: If there was no battery rule, wouldn't the battery distributor and matchers have a major advantage? I mean if a 4600 mah cell came out...only a select few would have that cell at first. Answer: Exactly!! The only rule we need for batteries is that they need to be available to the general public 30days prior too a sanctioned event. No organization, not even ROAR can stop racers or local tracks from using them.



From EA 08/23/08: That depends on the company. I am sure Team drivers would get them first to test and make sure they are a dependable cell but I doubt they would be allowed at most races/tracks untill avaible to the public....This is how it works in other countries. 30 day rule :rolleyes:

You will see weight rules for batteries next year too. There will be a tolerance put on the submitted cell. There is one cell on the market now that was submitted at 66 grams and now off the shelf cells weigh 72-73 grams. Do you think that manufacture has an advantage over others? Answer: So adjust the weight, sure a lot easier and less worrysom than what we are doing now with this quazi-moto approval process. Running the lighter battery add weight..no brainard.

From TQCELLS 08/22/06: Our ROAR, NORCCA, and whoever else you can think of, rules don't amount to a hill of beans in the big picture. Answer:NORRCA is a dead issue and yes you are correct our rules (ROAR and ARCOR) don’t amount to a hill of beans. I can see it now, the battery manufactures get letters from ROAR and ARCOR saying we will not allow/approve their batteries, because they don’t meet size or mH specifications. Here’s their answer:http://www.widro.com/throwpaper.html (http://www.widro.com/throwpaper.html)







Hi JB,
First I must say, I'm not TQCELLS, LOL, just sponsored.
Secondly, it's funny how without voice tones, hand gestures, and facial expressions things can be misunderstood.

The point I was trying to make is...The USA doesn't dictate what cell the mfg. produce, the rest of the world DOES.
If there are 40 countries running 4200's and the US running 3800's, what battery would you concentrate on???

Catch ya later, Bret

YA KNOW WEATHER WE ADMIT IT OR NOT WE ARE RACERS SOME TAKE IT MORE SERIOUS THAN OTHERS YOU CAN NOT STOP PROGRESS OR TECHNOLOGY IF YOU WANT TO STOP TECHNOLOGY RUN SPEC CLASS AND HAVE BATTERY RULES LIMITING MAH VOLTAGE AND WHATEVER ELSE YOU WANT! . The racer wants the latest and greatest for what reason ????? SPEED ! THIS DEBATE HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE THE START OF OUR "HOBBY"

YA KNOW WEATHER WE ADMIT IT OR NOT WE ARE RACERS SOME TAKE IT MORE SERIOUS THAN OTHERS YOU CAN NOT STOP PROGRESS OR TECHNOLOGY IF YOU WANT TO STOP TECHNOLOGY RUN SPEC CLASS AND HAVE BATTERY RULES LIMITING MAH VOLTAGE AND WHATEVER ELSE YOU WANT! . The racer wants the latest and greatest for what reason ????? SPEED ! THIS DEBATE HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE THE START OF OUR "HOBBY"
Any reason you are in all caps?? :confused:

Any reason you are in all caps?? :confused:



sorry im old school i forget abought internet ethics lol :wave:

I did'nt really think you were intentioanly yelling at someone.

You were how old? 2 or 3? Cause you dont look much older than 21 anyway...Cupcake!! LOL

EA

haha, man I wish I was 21 again, I turned 30 back in May this year.

somebody told me the other day i looked 26, so I will take the 21 EA, even better, lol !!!

haha, man I wish I was 21 again, I turned 30 back in May this year.

somebody told me the other day i looked 26, so I will take the 21 EA, even better, lol !!!


Wow...so that means your probably older than me:jest: I turned 30 on the 26th of May!! LOL

EA

Wow...so that means your probably older than me:jest: I turned 30 on the 26th of May!! LOL

EA

Just pups 20's and early 30's just pups hehehe

Hi JB,
First I must say, I'm not TQCELLS, LOL, just sponsored.
Secondly, it's funny how without voice tones, hand gestures, and facial expressions things can be misunderstood.

The point I was trying to make is...The USA doesn't dictate what cell the mfg. produce, the rest of the world DOES.
If there are 40 countries running 4200's and the US running 3800's, what battery would you concentrate on???

Catch ya later, Bret

Bret: I didn't misunderstand you one bit and totally agree with you. The USA doesn't dicitate nor do the RC organizations. Like I said if I sent a letter to GP, IB or Sanyo and said I wasn't going to approve thier batteries because they were 4200 mH or they were a silly millimeter to big what do you think they would do with my letter? Potty can it for sure.:)

I am also NOT picking on sponsored racers, because if there were not one sponsored racer left in the world racers would still buy the lastest and greatest!

So my question is: Why are we going through the pointless action we call "Battery approval" every year?