These New Speed Spec Packs Are Junk Is There A Trick To Cycle Them Or What I Have 3 Of The Older Packs And Just Got A New One And My Old Ones Kill It. I Cycled Them On A Turbo 35 At 5 Amp Charge And 20 Amp Discharge. The Old Packs Have A Average Discharge Voltage About .4-.5 Numbers Better. Just To Make Sure I Didn't Have A Bad Conection I Opened The New Pack Up And Checked The Connections They Were Good I Put Them In A Discharge Tray And Zapped Them And Nothing Helped Them. [[[[[[[p.s Im Not Going To Use The New Pack It Was 15 Bucks So I Thought Give It A Fare Shake]]]]]]]]] Ill Run The Old Ones. TRINITY Step Up And Fix Them

Check out the thread , BEST BATTERY CHARGER FOR SPEC

Thats not going to fix your problem but maybe help you understand the cell difference.

The new speed " trinity'' packs are fair at best compared to the old ones,,, but realistically the old ones were TOOO good and we exspect alot out of the new ones.

I have a new " like new " original trinity spec 1600 4 cell pack that has probably 4-6 cycles on it , its been soldered into a side by side pack for test purposes, that I'd be willing to part with for $15.00 plus frt.

I only picked it up to do some comparison test when we were running the prototype Pro-Match cells.

This pack cycles out at 1850 + mah and an av. voltage at 10 amps of 4.79

Let me know

Rodney S.

the only way Trinity can STEP UP AND FIX EM is to get away from the 1600 cell !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's no way you can cycle the new cells at a 20 amp discharge as they don't have anything close to a 10c rating.

The Problem Is Once You Open Then From There Original Pack There No Longer Legal

I understand that , just thought I'd offer it as we're running all 2000's and I'll never use it.

Its up to your track you run at as each indidual cell is " spec '' shrunk wrapped.

R.S.

Ncfrc Thanks For The Info Thats What The Forums Are For

The bottom line with these cells is that they are NOT a fast chg / rapid discharge cell, period.

They were designed to work in a power drill or something similar with a 1-2 amp charger and about that on the discharge side.

Price dictated the cell choice and this is what you get ! :(

this is gonna get good... people running the new cells, the old cells. whining, complaining. unfortunatly i hav'nt tried the new ones yet but i did run the GP cells for about 3 years.

if you get on trinity's website, they have instructions on how to charge them and what they recommend to set your cut off at. i can't remember off the top of my head.

i did however beat the crap out of the old packs, 30 amp discharges, 6 amp charging.... they liked a little bit of heat. but then again, i tried 4 amp, 5 amps, 6,7 amps... different cut off voltages, dead shorting, etc...

kind of reminds us when the gp 3300 cells were replaced by the 3600, and 3700s, and up.... faster and more powerful, but the gp 3300 could take constant abuse and still run like helll.

There's a new 1900 spec pack on the horizon which will eliminate all these problems. :thumbsup:

Chrg at 4-6 amps , discharge at 20-30 amps, nicad , so a fine delta peak adjustment not neccesary , chrg with that old Tekin or CE unit.

Not an Epic / Trinity either , their going to stay with the 1600 :confused:

i know what you're saying but you'll have to watch. i've talked to a few track owners and they said spec is spec, if it's not trinity, it's not legal. you'll have to get with your local track owner and talk to him about legal/illegal battery rules... if he's cool with 2000mah batteries then good, but them batteries would not be allowed at the local track i race at.

Its up to each individual track as to decide whats best for their racers.

Not really a big deal , just pick one and stay with it.

Tested some of the new packs the other day and they gave out a mere 1460 on the discharge side . :confused:

Trinity ----choose a different cell !!!

what discharge rate?

10 amps to .90 per cell

well my new spec's our just as good as the older one's. Some much so other racers our starting to buy the newer cells...

My new 1600 cells are starting to run as good as the older ones too. Flex charge at 4 amps, and discharge at 20. Seems to be working for me. Run the same pack all day!!

Can anybody give me some solid numbers on the new spec packs ??

Charge numbers at 4-5 amps flex ---sec and mah

Discharge numbers at 10 amps to .90 " closest to a spec motor w'4383 draw''

Voltage at 240 and 300 sec's

Discharge av voltage and AIR numbers

Thanks for the feedback , lets get some solid numbers on the latest packs.
I'm not changing my mind but lets get staight facts.
Trinity tech says " the new _ _ -4300 cells suck and they aren't going to sell them anymore but that the spec packs are ok and charged properly will perform good"

R.S.

Who cares about Spec pack numbers? They are SPEC PACKS and we all know it. We need to quit worrying about numbers and just have fun!! What I like about the Spec packs are that I have the same junk the other guy has.

Numbers, dates codes, dyno numbers is what has helping to kill our hobby. Just buy your packs and take your chances.

hope this helps,
4c pack, charge 5amps discharge 20a cutof'f voltage 4.15v run time 300sec
6c pack, charge 5amps discharge 20a cutoff voltage 6.2v, run time 300sec 6.7avg disc. voltage.
I try a 5amp charge and discharge them a 10amps and see what we get..

Who cares about Spec pack numbers? They are SPEC PACKS and we all know it. We need to quit worrying about numbers and just have fun!! What I like about the Spec packs are that I have the same junk the other guy has.

Numbers, dates codes, dyno numbers is what has helping to kill our hobby. Just buy your packs and take your chances.


holly crap !!! someone that feels the same way i do !!! im getting into spec brushless nastruck, thinking it would be a way into a differant class, that i could compete in. then i start talking to the track big heads, they are telling me you can tinker with brushless motors too, so it may still suck !!

I guess some of you guys still don't get this thread ??????

We as a track will probably assemble our own spec packs just to make this division more fair and promote an even playing field.

There's just too much inconsistensy in the 1600 spec packs out there ! Are you going to say someone with the original Gp-1600 's can't run ??

Give ME a break , we've put more time and effort into this division than any division in the past and we're going to make it a success !!!

Family Fun is our whole objective , but little johnny is going to have the same battery as any body else.

Just because brushless is getting more popular doesn't mean the rules don't need to be enforced-----thats the problem with most tracks ---its a pain in the rear to enforce rules and we all know it has to be done ---don't worry about getting a racer mad at ya , then he's probably cheating anyway.

If you want to level the playing field handout motors and batteries. Charge 5 more dollars a week and thatll cover the cost of a battery and a motor over a two month span easily. No tinkering all use same brushes and springs and rotate which batteries get used every round. Its the only was to truly level the playing field.

Thats exactly what we're doing , ALL spec motors stay at the track " same brushes and springs with connector and each week the racer draws from a sealed box the motor he runs that week. 25 motors available for roughly 20 drivers.
The bummer with batteries is the way their handled / treated ????

Don't know if rotating is the best there , hmmmm , we're just going to make sure everyone starts with the same pack and we're striving to run that pack all night long, keep cost down , ect ect.

All you can do is TRY and make it as fair as possible !!!!!!!!!

Do you guys allow them to open the motors up or are they sealed or marked.

Ok,fyi NCFRC,i went to the hobby trailer yesterday,bought a "new and improved" 6c spec pack[bigger tabs between cells,better lead wire,these are the packs with labels],took it to the trailer,installed a Dean's plug,placed it under a 100 watt light for about 15 min.,then cycled as follows; a 2 peak charge,6 amp 1st,.06 peak detect,120 sec. delay,3 amp 2nd charge,.06 peak detect,15 sec. delay,then 20 amp discharge.the #'s are as follows:
1-run time-364 sec.
2-7.0 volts carry-35 sec.
3-Average Voltage-6.47
4-Voltage @ 240 sec.-6.35
5-internal resistance-207
6-peak voltages;6 amp charge-10.28,3 amp charge 9.49
7-charge time-1791 secs
voltage at hook-up-6.57;@ 30sec.;8.48
Of the new packs i have,this is a bit above average,most are in the 340-350 sec.run time,the average voltage for the 1st pull is above avg.[my best pack is 6.46 after 6 charges]most are 6.27-30. my suggestion to you is to not break these apart and put them into packs,just have each racer in the class buy a couple each and then throw 'um in a box and draw.You just open too many issues the other way.Good racin in which ever way you go.

Do you guys allow them to open the motors up or are they sealed or marked.


NO opening of motors !!!!!!!!! yes sealed and numbered 1-25

I appreciate your feedback , numbers sound about on par , we've been running four cell and cycling at 10 amps.

We'll be selling the packs to the racers for $15.00 each and to keep it fun and fair we " may " institute a battery claimer rule where after the feature another racer from your heat has a right to buy your battery for the $15.00 fee.

As a racer , I'll take a new pack anyday if some other racer thinks my battery is faster.

In the Charlotte area we have been charging and discharging as follows on a GFX:

5.0 Charge
.03 detect
Single Peak
15 amp discharge
3.60 cut-off

Here are a few of our numbers:

512 runtime
4.51
4.56 @1volt
28.7 IR

502 runtime
4.51
4.56 @1volt
29.5 IR

495 runtime
4.52
4.56 @1volt
29.7 IR

I do not repeak them and do not discharge over 15 amps as this all creates heat. Heat will raise the IR's and lower the voltage. These packs hold the track record in 4-cell Spec Truck at Fox Mountain, C&W, and Darlington.

These are the latest Spec packs ???

I don't follow your numbers completely , I understand your runtime in sec and the IR of the pack but where did you measure the two middle numbers ?

The runtime for a 1600 pack at 15 amps sounds very good.

Thanks for the feedback

R.S.

These are the latest Spec packs ???

I don't follow your numbers completely , I understand your runtime in sec and the IR of the pack but where did you measure the two middle numbers ?

The runtime for a 1600 pack at 15 amps sounds very good.

Thanks for the feedback

R.S.

Yes these are the new 1600 Spec Packs. The 2 middle numbers are average discharge voltage. The first page on the GFX reads IR's and the second page reads Runtime, discharge average, discharge average @1volt, and a few other things.

512 runtime
4.51 average volt
4.56 average @1volt
28.7 IR

502 runtime
4.51 average volt
4.56 average @1volt
29.5 IR

495 runtime
4.52 average volt
4.56 average @1volt
29.7 IR

ARCOR started the 4C Spec class as a class that the every day Joe Racer could compete in. But it seems the hot dogs has infiltrated this class as well. When you have to start comparing numbers, you have defeated the reasoning behind the class. When the racer has to have a motor man, a chassis man or a battery man, the purpose was defeated. (demise of 1/8th scale racing)

What could have been an ideal class of racing for the budget minded, the racer that doesn't want to commit to every waking hour on his car, has turned into a mini "stock" class. This is extermly sad, because those that have to help the average "Joe" win a race, have taken our hobby one step further to the graveyard.

I attend enough races to know that if the "Average Joe" had to prepare his own car, he wouldn't be in the top position, he would have to struggle like the rest of his competitors. It's a #@%&*! shame that we can't have a class for Joe Racer.:(

I guess some of you guys still don't get this thread ??????

We as a track will probably assemble our own spec packs just to make this division more fair and promote an even playing field.

There's just too much inconsistensy in the 1600 spec packs out there ! Are you going to say someone with the original Gp-1600 's can't run ??

Give ME a break , we've put more time and effort into this division than any division in the past and we're going to make it a success !!!

Family Fun is our whole objective , but little johnny is going to have the same battery as any body else.

Just because brushless is getting more popular doesn't mean the rules don't need to be enforced-----thats the problem with most tracks ---its a pain in the rear to enforce rules and we all know it has to be done ---don't worry about getting a racer mad at ya , then he's probably cheating anyway.

JB , I agree with you 100% !!!! If it wasn't for the inconsistency of Speed Spec 1600 packs none of us would be having this discussion.
I'm not trying to make spec racing a high-tech division , I want everyone to have an equal chance.
Thats why we'll probably have our own track battery for that class.
But this is one small track and doesn't need to influence everyone else.

JB,

You know as well as I do, battery/motor is just part of it. 75% of the total package is racecar. Good motors and batteries will not make a bad car fast. There is nothing wrong with helping out the "Average Joe" as it helps keep him in the sport.

JB,

You know as well as I do, battery/motor is just part of it. 75% of the total package is racecar. Good motors and batteries will not make a bad car fast. There is nothing wrong with helping out the "Average Joe" as it helps keep him in the sport.

No, there is nothing worng with a racer getting help, but when that racer just drives the car and lets a "pit man" take care of the rest, be it chassis, motor or batteries, what kind of message does that send?? What should be a "spec class" a class intened to get more racers involved, is being catered too by the pros, "helping" (by taking total control) now we have nothing but an unsponsored Stock class.

Just read back and look at what you guys are worried about, BATTERY NUMBERS!! Like Rickity Racer said "we all have crap" concerning the Spec packs, then why not leave a sleeping dog sleep? Noooooooooo, we have to start comparing numbers, which for the most part are irrevelant, because numbers only pertain to the individual racers packs, for his reference. For the most part we are only talking about a minimum difference, but yet "numbers" are treated like the gospel. Who gives a rats pazoodie if your packs have 1/10th a a volt more than mine?? Just one screw up on the track negates that difference. Yet, what are we seeing? NUMBERS!!!! Thank God Spec packs don't have date codes, LORD HELP US ALL!!!

I guess you could always creat another class with a rule "No pitman or information sharing allowed"!!

JB you should know good and well that Tony loves helping guys out more than he does racing (hell have you seen him try to drive? Its not pretty!!). And I am sure he would pick up ANYBODIES car at the track and tell them exactly what was wrong with it!! Its guys like him we NEED around to help the guys that need it and teaching them as they go...weather it be chassis setup, tire care or battery care.

I didnt see you slamming your beloved Humpty everytime he helped a spec racer out at the track! And Lord knows he's helped out EVERYONE at the track at one point or another....and a lot of times showed up to help and wasnt racing....hmmmmm. Pitman?

EA

"beloved Humpty"...LMAO
you mean someone actually loves him?!?

JB,

You know as well as I do, battery/motor is just part of it. 75% of the total package is racecar. Good motors and batteries will not make a bad car fast. There is nothing wrong with helping out the "Average Joe" as it helps keep him in the sport.

No, there is nothing worng with a racer getting help, but when that racer just drives the car and lets a "pit man" take care of the rest, be it chassis, motor or batteries, what kind of message does that send?? What should be a "spec class" a class intened to get more racers involved, is being catered too by the pros, "helping" (by taking total control) now we have nothing but an unsponsored Stock class.

Just read back and look at what you guys are worried about, BATTERY NUMBERS!! Like Rickity Racer said "we all have crap" concerning the Spec packs, then why not leave a sleeping dog sleep? Noooooooooo, we have to start comparing numbers, which for the most part are irrevelant, because numbers only pertain to the individual racers packs, for his reference. For the most part we are only talking about a minimum difference, but yet "numbers" are treated like the gospel. Who gives a rats pazoodie if your packs have 1/10th a a volt more than mine?? Just one screw up on the track negates that difference. Yet, what are we seeing? NUMBERS!!!! Thank God Spec packs don't have date codes, LORD HELP US ALL!!!

Good ole' Flipper still has to pick up the radio and wheel it. Thanks for the kind words EA.

No, there is nothing worng with a racer getting help, but when that racer just drives the car and lets a "pit man" take care of the rest, be it chassis, motor or batteries, what kind of message does that send??

The message it sends: "Wow that pit man really knows a little something about set up. Hey can you help me out? My car is running like a big turd!"

Saturday at C&W I did just that, helped Bill, Harold, and indirectly through Brooks helped Rick. We totally re-setup Bill's car and made improving changes to Harolds car.


Concerning spec packs: Most part irrevelant/minimum difference So why are you making such a big deal about posting numbers? Could it be Your Spec packs do not show the numbers ours do? Maybe/maybe-not, but I can help you guys out and send a few packs your way.

You may ask: "Why would he do this?"

Answer: "Because it's my job to help people out. And as EA posted, I enjoy doing so."

I also find it kinda funny, EVERYONE has been cycling Spec Packs for many many years. "I" post numbers in reply to someone elses request after other numbers have been posted and then you have to get on here and make a big deal about it. I posted numbers to help a fellow racer out and to show we have nothing to hide. Our motors have been torn apart way too many times, showing we also have nothing to hide as we have been found legal every single time. I'm sure we will continue to be torn down in the future, but we will continue to be found legal every single time.

While racing at a local track the owner has NEVER torn anyone down. Then the owner has conversations with you and 2 weeks in a row we are torn down. HHHMMM............but again we are found legal, every single time!

I don't car what anyone says or thinks, IT'S ALL IN THE RACECAR............

This is extermly sad, because those that have to help the average "Joe" win a race, have taken our hobby one step further to the graveyard.

The day the veteran racers stop helping the average guy,is the day you can throw dirt on the grave. Guys like Humpty,Tony,Brooks,and EA make themselved avalible to ANYONE who needs help. Guys like this are what we more of,not less.

I know at any point in time at the race track the average Joe can go to any one of the "hot dog racers" and ask for help and they will get it. I know on more then one occasion I have totally rebuilt an average Joes race car. I think it was last summer when me and humpty totally rebuilt Butches race car and put a new set of tires on it for him and all he had to do is go out and drive it. So I have no favorites
Every one that knows me knows that I will put my car aside and work on theirs.
I think if we loose that we will not have any racing.
I have sponsors and all my sponsors know that I will put an average joes car before my own.
I would like to thank all my sponsors for that!
Brooks

i agree with brooks! if it wasnt for richie king when i first started racing i probaly wouldnt be racing now..and i havent forgotten that! there has been many of times i have asked for help mainly from humpty and he never once turned his back and didnt help.. and i try to do the same..there has been several times someone has asked for help and i set aside my car and rebuilt anothers and explained to them what i was doing so they would know how the next time...

if you want a true spec class..then buy batteries and motors and draw for them at the race..that way you dont have to work on them!

So after reading all of this, I know the way to fix it all. Just Race. Have a good time, talk with others, and run what the rules tell you to run. I run the ARCOR spec truck class. Do I think I am to good to run it.... YES. I have raced for over 7 years. I took about a 6 year layoff, and just got back into it. I want to move to the stock class, but no one shows for it right now, and I want to race. But I plan to move up this fall. So in closing, here is what I say "someone" needs to do. Setup a spec class, say the legends. So they run the spec packs and motors. Then have the ARCOR spec class. You can use your motor and batts, all you need is a new chassis (I like my HD 0700 that I got for 150 bucks). Then if you want to move up you can sell the Legends car, and spec stuff and get some 4200's. About 35 to 40 bucks for some nice numbers. So you will only have to dump a little more money in to get some new stuff. After that you can have a 19 turn open class. Not 19 turn spec. I think 19 turn needs to be a step up from stock. So there you go 4 classes that can be run, and fit everyone's needs for oval. Kinda sounds like it was back in the day, "Legends, sportsman, stock, and mod" when our hobby was fun, and thriving. There you go, my 2 cents. :thumbsup:
Joel White

Guys, I'm not saying helping is wrong, NOT ON YOUR LIFE!! We definatly need the Humpty's, Brooks, Tony's etc. They are the GREAT!! These are the type of racers that get the ARCOR Racer of the Year Award and they well deserve it.

What I am trying to say is, Spec does not need a pit man for one individual racer. Nothing wrong with taking a racer under your wing, but a racer needs help, not someone to do all the work.

Guys, I'm not saying helping is wrong, NOT ON YOUR LIFE!! We definatly need the Humpty's, Brooks, Tony's etc. They are the GREAT!! These are the type of racers that get the ARCOR Racer of the Year Award and they well deserve it.

What I am trying to say is, Spec does not need a pit man for one individual racer. Nothing wrong with taking a racer under your wing, but a racer needs help, not someone to do all the work.

Who are you to say what a Spec Racer needs and doesn't need? FYI...Flipper DOES work on his own car, yeah maybe not 100% of the time, but there is nothing wrong with setting up a car for someone and giving it to them to drive. So what if we put the motor and battery in for him, or rebuild their shocks, or show them the proper way to prep tires, or even just set him down on the track.

JB.... YOU YOURSELF will run ARCOR and your classes into the grave, not the "HOT DOGS" helping out the Spec Racers.

I understand both sides. I would have never started racing if it were not for Brooks, and all of the help he has given me, but how far is to far for help? Thats something I think we will never know because when your getting help its the way to go. When your not it just wrong....lol.

Man ,

Did I get you guys cranked up , competition brings out the good and bad in all of us.

Our final club decision was this -- 25 spec motors #2226 ,all the same brushes and springs , Racer buys motor but puts back in box " at track" at the end of the night , no motor goes home. Randomly draws another motor each week , motor is numbered 1 - 25 .

Spec tires w/ 120/ 30 gear rule.

Club bought 100 bulk cells "sanyo's " type or mah doesn't matter for this comment right now,,, and assembled our own 4 cell packs which are all identical. Racer cost $15.00 each.
The kicker is any other racer in that division after the feature can claim your battery for $15.00 , which you can go buy a NEW one.
I as a racer would love to have a new battery , so what to heck , claim it.

maybe not perfect , but close enough for our track

i would like to thank brooks and tony for there help saturday at c&w.if it was not for them i probably would have ran alittle bit slower.also tony told me what to change on my truck for this week.hope it works tony....LOL also everytime i have a question i could always ask brooks and he would help me.
see ya saturday tony.

harold

Just had a thought for everyone wanting to race in a Spec class. To create parity, why not require the winning driver to supply his setup to the rest of the racers? At least at a minimum, let them know that they must allow other racers access to see how the car is setup. I know there are different chassis out there, but at least promote the idea of information sharing if you want to keep the playing field level.

I've raced primarily in 6-cell stock classes for a few years now. I found out a long time ago it wasn't batteries or motor that was beating me, but it was setup and driving. I've seen a good driver take an average motor and battery and beat the field by multiple laps in a spec class. However, the same driver was happy to cut a motor or adjust your chassis if you needed help.

I think the one thing that drives away the casual racer is not feeling like they are competitive regardless of class. Of course everyone needs to learn how to set up their car, but no one wants to be a back marker. Try to promote the idea of information sharing to help the slower racers. On the opposite end I've seen some racers go so far as to paint their shock springs different colors and cover their cars with towels between heats. I've raced with other people that will give the wrong gear ratio to people asking for help. Oh, let's not forget the people who tweak their spec motors. It is no wonder some people get frustrated and quit or move to other classes.

I think what we need to be reminding ourselves is that this is a hobby and it should be fun. Find ways to make it fun for everyone, including the people who come in last. I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I'd much rather come in last in a field of 20 cars than come in 1st in a field of 3.

I have no problem sharing information. Anyone that races with us knows that is the way I was taught. There are a few things I keep to myself but 95% of the time I will share anything about the chassis, motor, batteries, gearing, tires, etc.

Also at any point in time my cars are available for ANYONE to look at and ask questions. So if anyone ever has any questions, feel free at anytime to e-mail, post, or stop by and pick my brain. This is the way Humpty taught me and the way I learned.

i would like to thank brooks and tony for there help saturday at c&w.if it was not for them i probably would have ran alittle bit slower.also tony told me what to change on my truck for this week.hope it works tony....LOL also everytime i have a question i could always ask brooks and he would help me.
see ya saturday tony.

harold

We'll be there Homie!