A small note of historical significance.

It's now official. 16x9 TV sets are now outselling 4x3 sets in the United States. This is as reported on CNBC's "The Closing Bell".

The more impressive number is that there will be 50% more 16x9 sets in the U.S, at the end of 2006 than there was at the end of 2005. A 50% increase in one year! The absolute number is expected to be about 25 million widescreen sets installed by the end of the year.

So the inevitable has begun. Regardless of the government mandate for the switch to digital (which I always regarded as a formality), the consumer has spoken. The one year percentage increase in sales of 16x9 is tantamount to a collapse of the 4x3 TV system. 4X3 will survive for awhile based on its huge installed base but it's being steamrolled by skyrocketing 16x9 sales.

I believe the actual switch-over date is February 17, 2009.
And say "buh-bye to VHS, too.
Also, remember when DVD was being developed? There were two competing formats, and a mutual agreement had to be reached to avoid a "Betamax vs. VHS"-type war. Now, Toshiba is first out of the gate with its' HD DVD system, and Sony's Bluray is coming soon.
So much for avoiding a format war.

I believe the actual switch-over date is February 17, 2009.
.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

But, like I said, I always viewed the actual date as something of a formality.

The fact is that consumers, once they latch on to a product, can dramatically accelerate it's acceptance regardless of government mandate. Clearly the 16x9 is on a huge roll. This isn't surprising...I go into retail places everyday and 16x9's greatly outnumber 4x3 sets for sale (even at Walmart). It's just that we now have the confirmation that the 16x9 set is the sales leader.

If 2009 rolled around and the 4x3 was still dominating the marketplace, this would have created a very awkward situation. I'm sure the government is no particular mood the antagonize the electorate. The last thing they want to hear is, "the government turned off my TV set"!

It now looks like that's not going to be an issue. With the accelerating 16x9 sales, the majority of Americans will have made the switch long before the government mandate for digital broadcasting* goes into effect.


*At this point, somebody will usually observe that "Digital Broadcsting" is not the same as 16x9 or HD. That is correct. At least, it's correct from a semantic point of view. However, all major broadcasters and TV manufacturers have recognized the 16x9 HDTV is the standard which they will adopt for future TV. So, while digital broadcasting doesn't legally mandate 16x9 HDTV, don't expect to visit Best Buy in 2009 and purchase digital 4x3 TV set from Hitachi to watch 4x3 broadcasts on NBC...because it ain't gonna' happen.

The "digital broadcasters" just better start pumping out some decent material. The garbage they've been spewing out lately is so over-compressed that it looks like someone has taken small 56k, blocky internet video and enlarged it to fill a full HDTV screen. There is so much noise in the way of compression artifacts that I consider it to be unwatchable. They have taken beautiful digital video source and squeezed all of the quality out of it. What is left behind for the actual broadcast is just crap.

People still have 4x3 sets?

The number of units sold is increasing in inverse proportion to the price. As price continues to drop, sales will increase. Futureshop here in Canada was advertising a 50 inch 16x9 LCD Sony for a mere $2500 last week.

Eventually everyone will have a 16 x 9 set. Old 4x3 sets will become a curiousity, like dial up internet access. ;)
Huzz

I'm not getting one of them new-fangled high definition, widescreen, color TVs until my Philco dies. :D

4x3 TVs. The new "collectable".

Now, Toshiba is first out of the gate with its' HD DVD system, and Sony's Bluray is coming soon.
So much for avoiding a format war.

Yeah that's another gemmick. People should be aware that their current DVD collection won't play on a BluRay player. So they'll have to buy AGAIN what they already have. That's the perfect senario for the ?%&&* studios. That's why everybody should stay away from Blu Ray and go with the DVD HD instead, even if they say that Sony's vision has more potential. I hope they'll lose this war, again.......................

I still like my good ol' 27" Trinitron...and I don't have the money for a 16x9 HD set right now.

I'm not getting rid of my VHS setup until someone will sell me a DVR that I can use without paying them a monthly subscription fee.

"They say when you have your second wall-screen, it’s like having your family grow around you."

"Linda, how many of these pills have you taken today?" ;)

Yeah that's another gemmick. People should be aware that their current DVD collection won't play on a BluRay player.

Oh, yes they will. All Blu-ray players are backward-compatible with existing DVDs. They will even up-rez the picture with a built-in scaler. It's in the spec.

People still have 4x3 sets?

Yes, I paid $1200 for my 32" Sony 10 years ago, it still works fine, and I ain't shelling out a few grand for a new TV until I absolutley HAVE to!

Does this mean that the folks who produce DVDs will finally start putting the additional content (menus, warnings, credits, extras, etc.) all in the same widescreen format as the movie on the disc?Jim

"They say when you have your second wall-screen, it’s like having your family grow around you."

"Linda, how many of these pills have you taken today?" ;)

scary, ain't it? But who reads these days anyway...

scary, ain't it? But who reads these days anyway...

Never read the book but watched the movie again about a year ago and was extremely humored by that particular prescience.

Does this mean that the folks who produce DVDs will finally start putting the additional content (menus, warnings, credits, extras, etc.) all in the same widescreen format as the movie on the disc?Jim

The mixture of formats for extras vs. the main feature can be quite inexplicable.

Most people don't realize this but would you believe that Vol 1 of THE TIME TUNNEL (haven't got V2 yet) has anamorphic widescreen extras! The menus and still galleries are anamorphic. That is just wacky.

Never read the book but watched the movie again about a year ago and was extremely humored by that particular prescience.

Read the book, saw the movie, interviewed the author.
Classic.

Yes, I paid $1200 for my 32" Sony 10 years ago, it still works fine, and I ain't shelling out a few grand for a new TV until I absolutley HAVE to!

My 27" Trinitron from 1992, for which I paid 900 simoleans is still going strong. ;)

I AM however, using a Sharp DLP projector for my large scale wide screen movie watching...with a 22" by 46" white board ( with the frame painted black ) as a screen. Works surprisingly well, although it ain't all that epicurean.

Our 27" RCA curved screen which I paid $229.00 for a few years ago is doing just fine as well. If we had a big flat screen I'd feel obligated to watch it to justify the cost - and too much time is wasted in front of it as it is.

Yup! Summer's almost here and there's lawns to be mowed and steaks to be barbecued!

Huzz

I wouldn't have an HD monitor if our 12 year-old 27" Sony hadn't started crapping out. But working "in the business", I felt it was time to upgrade. And we spent considerably less than $2500 to go "HD". I'm more than happy with what I got.

Ultimately, this isn't really an issue about what TV is adequate, good enough, just fine or still going strong. 4x3 TV is ending...it just is. People are entitled to try and hold out as long as they can. After all, there is no legal mandate that requires anybody to own a TV of anykind.

I was one of those guys who was more than happy with BETA....and I kept buying BETA tapes until they couldn't be had.

But folks just have to understand that, assuming they want to watch anything, they will have to make the switch. It's not a matter of preference and there are no competing formats. Analog broadcasting will end. 4x3 broadcasting will end.

This isn't like Blu Ray vs. HD DVD where manufacturers and consumers will be making choices and taking sides to determine an ultimate winner. The future TV standard has been decided.

"Science Finds, Industry Applies, Man Conforms.''
-- official slogan of the 1933 Chicago World's Fair
Never read the book but watched the movie again. . . [Wayne Campbell voice]Oh. Isn't that the height of irony?[/Wayne Campbell voice]

Ultimately, this isn't really an issue about what TV is adequate, good enough, just fine or still going strong. 4x3 TV is ending...it just is. People are entitled to try and hold out as long as they can. After all, there is no legal mandate that requires anybody to own a TV of anykind.

I was one of those guys who was more than happy with BETA....and I kept buying BETA tapes until they couldn't be had.

But folks just have to understand that, assuming they want to watch anything, they will have to make the switch. It's not a matter of preference and there are no competing formats. Analog broadcasting will end. 4x3 broadcasting will end.

This isn't like Blu Ray vs. HD DVD where manufacturers and consumers will be making choices and taking sides to determine an ultimate winner. The future TV standard has been decided.

Someone will come up with a box to display a 16x9 digital signal on my good ol 4x3 analog Trinitron. When I have the cash, I'll get a good 16x9 HD flatscreen. Until then...no.

Someone will come up with a box to display a 16x9 digital signal on my good ol 4x3 analog Trinitron.

Of course they will.

You will certainly be able to get a set top box to convert your digital signal into something viewable on your old 4x3.

Just like you can buy an RF converter to watch DVD's on an old set.

And you'll probably be able to get something that will make it possible to use HDMI connections on your old set.

But I'm amused by the prospect of one of these old 4x3 TV's hooked up to a bunch of devices like some poor old guy on life support. Here's my old TV...with a $150.00 digital to analog converter, and $150 media control box to convert all of the HDMI outputs to composite. So here's my set with a bunch of converter boxes and 30 feet of cables and, damn it, this is a perfectly good set and I'm not replacing it.

$300 to keep from spending $3k? Works for me! :lol:

How's this for topical irony: I was asked to design an invitation for our marketing dept to send out for a trade show yesterday. I did it in our standard 4x6 format, like every other invite we've done over the years. Then the marketing manager came back with the request to make it 3.75" x 11" so he could stuff it in a #10 envelope.

I had to convert it to widescreen! :freak:

That's pretty good, JP!:D


...One other thing - prices have been and continue to plummet while the technology is improving. By the time I need to buy a new set, prices will be downright reasonable.
Kind of like my $150.00 DVD player that doesn't play all the formats, nor has the progressive scan of my $29.00 DVD player!

My 32" Sony crapped out after eleven loyal years of service. Perplexed as to which kinda set we needed to replace it with, we went with the Sony KD-34XBR960. Pretty good picture quality, but the thing is such a behemoth that I had to buy a new stand to support the weight. Here's a pic of it, after the delivery guys dropped it off in my back yard. Damn lawn sprinkler heads made it a PITA to get inside.

http://www.yosemitefilm.com/photos/1383.jpg

My 32" Sony crapped out after eleven loyal years of service. Perplexed as to which kinda set we needed to replace it with, we went with the Sony KD-34XBR960. Pretty good picture quality, but the thing is such a behemoth that I had to buy a new stand to support the weight. Here's a pic of it, after the delivery guys dropped it off in my back yard. Damn lawn sprinkler heads made it a PITA to get inside.

http://www.yosemitefilm.com/photos/1383.jpg

Hey Yama... I think them sprinkler heads were supposed to be put at ground level, unless you programmed a controller to do a water show?........

The great thing about the Sony KD-34XBR960 is that it comes with it's own fully stocked refreshment stand. Them hot dogs is good!

Hey, yamahog!
What do you need those sprinklers for?
It looks like your grass died, dried up, and blew away!
There's nothing to water except dirt! :p

The great thing about the Sony KD-34XBR960 is that it comes with it's own fully stocked refreshment stand. Them hot dogs is good!The downside is that it tends to attract hordes of horny teenagers!

...it tends to attract hordes of horny teenagers!

But then so do I.
Thanks folks, I'm here all week.
Try the veal.

$300 to keep from spending $3k? Works for me! :lol:

How's this for topical irony: I was asked to design an invitation for our marketing dept to send out for a trade show yesterday. I did it in our standard 4x6 format, like every other invite we've done over the years. Then the marketing manager came back with the request to make it 3.75" x 11" so he could stuff it in a #10 envelope.

I had to convert it to widescreen! :freak:

I have a big problem paying with thousands to watch TV (see hdtv for dummies thread. sheesh.)

But tube type HDTV sets are reasonable. They aren't fire-sale reasonable (like 4x3's) but about what you would have expected to pay for a good sony tube set 10 years ago. Here's one (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Philips-30-Widescreen-Tube-HDTV-30PW9110D-/sem/rpsm/oid/148780/catOid/-12867/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do).

Just don't buy copper cables that cost more than gold.

Now I gotta go burn some boo-er-time.

I think you need to reseed!

We went with a rear projection HDTV TV, buying Consumer Reports theory that rear projection technology is pretty-much perfected while LCD and plasma are still in their infancy and unproven. And they're cheaper too, our new 52" RCA is onsale at Wallyworld for $999 and we're very happy with it. 'Course the downside is it's only slightly smaller than Yamahog's Sony.

I gotta say, after watching Voyage to the bottom of the Sea and Land of the Giants DVD's on the LCD projector in Cult's suite at WF, I was extremely impressed with the picture quality, if prices drop on them it seems like a promising way to get a big picture into a small living room!

For those guys who think a 16x9 HDTV costs $3000.00, I have to ask: Have any of you been in an electronics store in the last four years?

In 2003, I paid $3000.00 for my 51" Hitachi.

Today, I hold in my hands, a flyer from the local VISIONS electronics store. Their price, in Canadian dollars, for a new 51" Hitachi 16x9 HDTV is $1588.00. Toshiba sells a top-of-line 50" DLP projection set with HDMI interface, cable card slot and all the newest goodies for $1999.00CCDN.

Off brand or house brand sets are much less. A Prima 42" plasma 16x9 is $1499.99CDN. Smaller sets like the 26" JVC and SHARP LCD sets are $999.99 or $799.00 in Canada.

Nobody is suggesting that the minimum requirement is 50" plasma to hang on the wall. But, at $3000.00, that's the direction you're going.

Some of you guys need to get out more often :).

For those guys who think a 16x9 HDTV costs $3000.00, I have to ask: Have any of you been in an electronics store in the last four years?

Hell no, the prices scared me off four years ago! :lol:

My points on this good one (thanks Brent!)

- steak cookin on a grill aint Q'n - its grilling.
- c'dub watching a rounded tube? amazing-who woulda thunk! However, yama watching that hawg on top of the trailer sounds about right;-)
- Toshiba 30 (or 31) here. 14 years old, 1 repair for a sound card ($100)
- My brain is aching for a 60 DLP but my wallet brings me to reality real quick. Once the prices come down I may have to go for the projector.

Some of you guys need to get out more often :).

We do, which is why we can't justify spending such big bucks on a TV :tongue: . I mean, come on, $1499.99 Canadian was still around a grand American last time I looked, give or take.

I only paid $799 for my 32" HD tv from Ciruit City (costs less then the tv used before I bought this one.) My old tv was a reg. 27 inch tv that I paid almost $900 for about 5 years ago.

I paid $450 for my 27" Trinitron three years ago at Circuit City, on sale. The picture is quite nice, even if it isn't a 16x9 HDTV - the anamorphic transfer of the 1984 Dune looked beautiful.

Stupid anamorphic question for Brent - if you're watching an anamorphic movie on a 16x9 HDTV that is in a wider format than the TV (like the CinemaScope stuff from the 50s and 60s) - does it display with "letterbox" bars at the top and bottom like a regular widescreen movie does on a 4x3 TV?

[brent's ghost] yeah, only not so wide [/ghost]

The real Brent here :).

Steve244 is correct.

A really wide picture like Cinemascope will display the bars. But they are relativley smaller. On my 51" set, a 2.35 Scope movie has bars about 2 1/2" thick.

And about TV pricing...I still have to snicker a bit when people complain about the cost of new TV. I don't want to make light of peoples finances (I barely qualify as lower middle class...truth be told, I more "upper lower class"). But when my dad bought our first color TV in 1970, he paid $1200.00 for it. He was a mechanic at the time and I would guess his annual income was probably about $9,000.00 per year. The house had a fresh mortgage and $1200.00 was most likely about three years worth of discretionary money. A new Volkswagen could be had for $1800.00.

We do, which is why we can't justify spending such big bucks on a TV :tongue: . I mean, come on, $1499.99 Canadian was still around a grand American last time I looked, give or take.

Actually, $1499.99CDN is about $1349.00US.

The Canuck Buck is about 90cents U.S. at the moment.

While the US hasn't been paying attention, the CDN dollar has been rising steadily. The U.S and Canadian dollars may be at equal value by late 2007.

While the US hasn't been paying attention, the CDN dollar has been rising steadily.Not paying attention? We call it "biding our time" ... Mwha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Did I say that out loud?

:tongue:

Qapla'

SSB

Old 4x3 sets will become a curiousity, like dial up internet access. ;)
Huzz

Thanx Huzz, I'm still using both... :rolleyes:

I have indeed been paying attention to the CDN, that's why we haven't gone up to BC in a while. If you have been REALLY paying attention, you'd notice that while the dollar has slipped against almost all major currencies, the Yen and Chinese currency are pretty steady. Hmmmm? On Topic, we now have 2 Panasonic plasmas and a HD crt Samsung, none 4:3.

Thanx Huzz, I'm still using both... :rolleyes:

As a gesture of goodwill.......I invite you, Jim, into the 21 1/16th century by reminding you that 16x9 TVs and broad band internet access are both available to anyone who really wants them!