I watched the Doctor Who premiere episodes for Season 1 of the new BBC series on the Sci-Fi Channel last night, and I was wondering what others thought of it.

It was strange to see how The Doctor and the Wood Lady's sexual tension was displayed. I liked the digital effects. I thought they were very impressive and miles above what had been done before. I was puzzled by The Doctor's sadness that his planet had been destroyed. After all, he just has to go back in time and space in the TARDIS exactly as he demonstrated to Rose. (I wonder if she'll follow in Jo Grant's footsteps by posing nude anytime soon...)

I've got to say that it seemed odd to see the situations resolved within an hour. I guess the formula where there are endless chases, captures, and muliple sub-plots for 4-6 half hour episodes is gone for good.

I like the intro, but...

I ABSOLUTELY HATE WATCHING SCRUNCHED UP END CREDITS!!!

(Argh!!! I think I popped a vein in my head!!!)

The DVDS will be out in July! Haven't watched them yet, but did record them.

Ah, we can talk spoilers now!

That first, "Rose" is far from the best in the new series. It has some good moments (the "Earth is spinning" speech) and then it has the wierd rubbery Micky clone, belching bins, and a disembodied arm that defies the laws of physics in the single worst slapstick moment in Who history. Get this - in the commentary track, Davies is actually apologetic that that scene isn't at least twice as long, which they did film but had to shorten for time constraints. Gosh, how sad. He's certain it would have been even more hilarious! :eek: Oy vey.

LIke I said in the other thread, the first one has the bright idea to introduce the Doctor from Rose's p.o.v., good, but when it comes to the tale of the Auton's invasion it means that the first two acts of the story are esentially missing. So that first whole episode was less than satisfying, or convincing.

Good production values, though, the onslaught at the mall and the warehouse sequences are impressive. I like the fidelity to the original in the titles sequence and Ron Grainer's theme. The TARDIS interior is a good compromise between the old set and the McGann film (I liked the set on that one).

I also like the idea that there are people out there on the net who have spied out the Doctor's involvement in history and have devoted websites to the mystery. Wouldn'tcha know, that guy gets killed before the idea goes anywhere. Shame they were rushed, the website shots of the Doctor are an embarrasing cut-&-paste job.

The second episode is a big improvement. Uses the time effectively to devvelop a complete story, has better humor (the "bitchy trampoline" can be explained, I suppose, if you - er - stretch it? You have to wonder how her mouth and eyes have any muscle tissue or ability to vocalize, but maybe it's nano implants enabling that). I particularly liked the emotional scenes between Jabe and the Doctor ("I know who you are. I'm so sorry") and between the Doctor and Rose dealing with learning the fate of Earth. Really nice visuals on that one, nice designs, good action and tension...

Then Davies leaves a bad taste in my mouth with the way the Doctor lets Cassandra die. Eh? That's new, and not welcome. A violation of the Doctor's character. The only mitigating factor is that Rose herself voiced an objection, which tells you Davies is aware of the moral darkness of the Doctor's choice. It's a matter of the Doctor having a new personality in addition to the psychological fallout of the time war that destroyed his people - this does come up again, the Cassandra moment is setting up some character development.

Trust Sci-Fi channel to screw up the preview for next week. Here's how it works on original broadcast: the Grainer theme begins over the closing shot, the Doctor Who logo wipes across the screen, then over the theme music you get a "next week on Doctor Who" montage of clips, then the closing credits play. The preview for "The Unquiet Dead" as it was incorporated by the producers is an exhilerating teaser. What Sci-Fi cobbled together looked like crap.

Trust me, do watch next week's show. It's not written by Davies, and it's excellent.

I just watched the tape. I thought it was silly, different, and fun to watch. I liked more action, lots better FX, and the theme music.

I think that Dreamer's review is spot on, and look forward to more episodes. I
I like this new Doctor. I was worried about the black jacket, but I really never noticed, while watching. One thing strange, was not to see the regeneration, as in the FOX movie.

AW FRACK we have a Free HBO preview all weekend and I was recording something (Jeez I can't even remember already Oh yeah EVITA) So when's it on again on the East Coast? Dang!


John/Lonfan

I was puzzled by The Doctor's sadness that his planet had been destroyed. After all, he just has to go back in time and space in the TARDIS exactly as he demonstrated to Rose.

The Time Lords engineered their world to always move
forward in time. Whenever the Doctor would return to
Gallifrey, time had moved forward. One can't go back
into the planet's past, or into its' future.

The Time Lords engineered their world to always move
forward in time. Whenever the Doctor would return to
Gallifrey, time had moved forward. One can't go back
into the planet's past, or into its' future.

What episode of what story was this explained in? I don't recall it. I don't remember anything about the Time Lords engineering their own planet. I remember in The Three doctors, it was mentioned that Omega gave his life (actually got trapped on the other side of a black hole) so that the Gallifreyans would be able to harness the power of the black hole to enable Time Travel. I don't remember any further explanation about the planet's time stream itself being locked to Gallifreyans.

I don't remember a specific story, it was more like
a cumulative effect of various stories.

I remember a Tom Baker episode when his boy assistant died. The Girl assistant said 'no problem, we just go back in time and save him'. The Doctor became angry and said he wouldn't do that.

I remember a Tom Baker episode when his boy assistant died. The Girl assistant said 'no problem, we just go back in time and save him'. The Doctor became angry and said he wouldn't do that.

That was Adric in Earthshock. The reason the Doctor (it was Peter Davidson not Baker) couldn't (wouldn't) go back was that Adric was meant to die. The crash wiped out the dinosaurs, and Adric's DNA was needed to create the human race. If the Doctor had gone back and saved him he would have stopped humans from ever evolving.

They sort of explain it at the beginning (of Part One) of the next story after Earthshock.

There have been other times that the Doctor didn't go back in time to correct something. It's explained as he has a subconcious knowledge of what was meant to be in some cases.

SPOILER:


















Later in the new series they also have a bit of an explanation that even though he can go back and forth in time whenever he wants, there are some universal rules he can't break. Not without concequences anyway.

James :)

I only figured out the whole "auton" thing by reading threads on the web. From the show, I assumed the plastic intelligence was just animating actual department store dummies. So when they suddenly sprouted working guns I said "Oh com ON!" :rolleyes:

it was also noted during the sylvester mccoy era that major changes in the timeline of the universe have to remain sacrosanct. "even the daleks, as ruthless as they are, would hesitate before making such a major change in the timeline"

besides the "time war" betwen gallifrey and the daleks implies battles during that war.. it you cant change the outcome of the skirmishes, you cant change the outcome of the war.

there are tantalizing hints about the war sprinked throughout the eccelston series, and much gets explained druing the show "dalek"

as to the doctor's personality, theres one upcoming scene in the new series where the doctor becomes downright sadistic, causing another being physical pain for no reason other than his own satisfaction. in the xmas special that introduces tennant, he kills. the aftermath of the time war has left the doctor bitter, and much much darker.

I guess he must be getting closer to becoming the Valeyard.

well the valeyard was an anomoly between incarnations 12 and 13, and the watcher is the end stage of his final incarnation

by the way dreamer, i agree completely that they dropped the ball when they killed off the guy who was tracking the doctor through history via the internet. that could have been developed into something good

LIke I said in the other thread, the first one has the bright idea to introduce the Doctor from Rose's p.o.v., good, but when it comes to the tale of the Auton's invasion it means that the first two acts of the story are esentially missing. So that first whole episode was less than satisfying, or convincing.

While watching the show I did notice a few gaps in the story line. When the DVD's come out in July, will they be full shows?

I think that Dreamer's review is spot on, and look forward to more episodes. I
I like this new Doctor. I was worried about the black jacket, but I really never noticed, while watching. One thing strange, was not to see the regeneration, as in the FOX movie.

I was looking forward to the regeneration as well. Did it ever happen? Was this the first show for this Doctor?

no we dont see the regeneration from mcgann to eccelston.
and from what im hearing, the sci-fi channel hasnt cut down the episodes in any way.

hey they're comming on at 10:00 AM EST today! cool I'll record them BTW wasn't Peter Cushing a "Doctor Who" at one time?

John/Lonfan

cushing starred in 2 "doctor who" movies, made to exploit the popularity of the daleks. i use quotation marks because the setup varied wildly from the series. cushing played a human who's name was dr. who, who invented the tardis, building it within an old police box. the schoolteacher barbara became another grandaughter in these versions. so while the plots mirror the first 2 dalek stories, again who and what the doctor and the tardis are is completly abandoned.

(btw at that time in the series we knew nothing of gallifrey and the time lords. who and what the doctor was didnt become clear until much later.)

Don't look for the Eccleston series to make any sense when it comes to laws of time. This is one of those points on which the producers and script editors are asleep at the wheel, no continuity from one story to the next. In fact, not to give out spoilers, the very premises of two different episodes are in direct contradiction.

Having seen the entire run of the new series already this last Spring, I can tell you that the Laws of Time- and their apparent breach of what's been established- IS explained later on. But it doesn't start making sense until later on.

Give it a chance, guys. There is a rhyme and a reason to what's happening.

Besides, don't get too upset about what's happening. The Doctor Who series already has 4 different explanations for the sinking of Atlantis, among others. You think the Trek series has a problem with continuity??? Try something new with the Doctor and not mess up a previous story!

I'd have to disagree with you on that one, Warp. Without going into spoilers, I don't see a way to reconcile Father's Day with The Long Game. Two different writers, two differing understandings of how it works, no script editor catching the discrepency.

That's what I meant, btw, not that the series is inconsistent with what what's gone before but that it is inconsistent within it's own first season. Discontinuity is expected for a show with such a long run, but it's worrying when its internal logic can't be kept straight within a mere thirteen episodes.

I do like the show, but it has some improving to do to be running on all cylinders.

Fair enough, Dreamer. All I'm asking is that you finish the season out and the stories do get to be pretty amazing. Without knowing just where you are in the season is hard to say much without going into spoilers and I just can't do that. Watch it the way I did, without hardly any idea from week to the next! You will be getting an upcoming 2-parter set in... uh, well, maybe I shouldn't say, but that was a turning point for me.

Actually, I was very impressed with Chris Eccelston's performance as the Doctor. I had grave reservations at first, because he didn't even look like anything that the Doctor was in my mind. Every one of the incarnations expressed their eccentricity in their outfits and this outfit is barely outstanding. But he does express that eccentricity in his character! I didn't find his actions really all that questionable but this Doctor is not the Doctor of old. Inconsistent writers notwithstanding.

I really came to enjoy this Doctor and the stories of the second half of the season were more exciting, especially when we get to the end.

I liked the first two episodes I have seen. I am looking forward to this week's episode when there are walking dead wandering around. I just like zombies, I guess.

The new Doctor doesn't really 'feel' anything like the other doctors to me, because he doesn't seem as competent or adult (despite the character flaws of the others). But he does 'feel' like he is one of the Doctors, with his spacey thought processes and goofy laugh.

One of the Doctors was pretty much scrambled mentally after his regeneration (Davidson or Colin Baker?) so maybe this new guy just had a traumatic regeneration, since we haven't seen it.

The new Doctor doesn't really 'feel' anything like the other doctors to me, because he doesn't seem as competent or adult (despite the character flaws of the others). But he does 'feel' like he is one of the Doctors, with his spacey thought processes and goofy laugh.

One of the Doctors was pretty much scrambled mentally after his regeneration (Davidson or Colin Baker?)That was Davidson. His regeneration came close to "failing" -- whatever that means. However, as a result of his more-muddled-than-usual (even for The Doctor) thoughts in his first story, Davidson character-acted his way through recognizable bits and pieces of his previous personalities, while he wandered about unravelling Tom Baker's trademark scarf. That being the first transition from one Doctor to another that I saw, it really helped establish the link between his Doctor and those who preceded him.

Qapla'

SSB

Colin Baker also spent half of his first story having mental fits. Sylvester McCoy's entire first season had him as a galactic goodball that only sporadically showed signs of intelligence - most unDoctor-like Doctor I'd ever seen, he was in that season. Almost put me off the show entirely, but then the whole production was off in every respect.

Eccleston does have a cold, mean bitter streak to him thanks the the annihilation of his entire race and homeworld. What happens with Cassandra feels very much like a character violation to long-time viewers like me when we first see it. How this plays out justifies the change in him. I don't say that lightly, it wouldn't be the case had they just left it at that - "this guy can be a right bastard - we thought it would be an interesting change". That just wouldn't be the Doctor at all. We're a long way from Tom Baker's "have I the right" speech. The original series was written as a series of pure adventures with no emphasis on character intrigue or development. In the era of Buffy and Farscape, new audiences are expecting deeper character work of the sort that's never been seen on Who before. That might throw us older fans.

Like WarpCore (and I guess everyone else here), I was waiting to be convinced, and the first story wasn't enough to do it. By this point, I'm totally sold on Eccleston - his mad grin, manic inability to relax for more than a moment, and the way he's constantly, subtly pushing Rose's buttons, testing her reactions and assumptions.

Warp, I agree with most of what you said. I've seen the whole run - had the boxed set shipped over from the UK as a Christmas treat. The two-parter you're referring to is indeed one of the best of the year, along with Dalek and The Unquiet Dead. Those four I'd put with the very best of Who from any era. The rest are a mixed bag, mostly good (with some moments that are very good) but imperfect as well as two upcoming stories that are disappointing. Having seen the whole year, I can see both the strengths of the show and the faults that R.T. Davies will hopefully work to improve. But I don't want to give away spoilers either...

ooooh yeah.... very very creepy stuff.
you always hear about the classic doctor who series genuinely frightening the kids of their era, and that 2 parter certainly will do that. (hell i expect one image.. and those that have seen it will know exactly which one i mean.. will turn up in some of my future nigthmares)
and the coolest thing about it, its a very simple thing... no fancy effects.. but chilling as hell.

Colin Baker also spent half of his first story having mental fits.Okay; the local PBS station stopped running the show at the end of Davidson's tenure, so my only exposure to Colin Baker's version of the character was in the last few seconds of Davidson's last show. Drove me bananas at the time to know I wasn't going to get to see what came next.

For me, Doctor Who began with early Tom Baker episodes. Eventually the local station showed lots of Jon Pertwee episodes, as well as the entire (as far as I know) run of Tom Baker and Peter Davidson. I saw William Hartnell's Doctor only in his limited role in the Pertwee-era's "The Three Doctors," and Troughton only there and in "The Five Doctors." Based on such admittedly scant evidence, I had the impression that Troughton's Doctor, in many respects, served as the rough "blueprint" around which subsequent iterations were built. When I first saw him in "The Five Doctors," I liked him immediately.

I have always suspected that James Bond is secretly from Gallifrey -- we've just never seen him regenerate! ;)

Qapla'

SSB

I was looking forward to the regeneration as well. Did it ever happen? Was this the first show for this Doctor?

In "Rose", when the Doctor goes into Rose's apartment, he stops for a moment to look in a mirror and says something along the lines of "Oh, not bad this time. What's with these ears, though?" :cool:

I thought it a nice, quick way of acknowledging the regeneration without having to take too long doing it.

Anybody? Reactions to last night's?


Some of you haven't said what you thought of the show in general yet, or the first two specifically.

I've been enjoying it. i think Dr. who is just good old fun and not to be scrutinized too much.

I enjoyed this week's a lot. Very good sympathetic, tragic character in the psychic servant girl. Nice use of a historical figure. Rose looked hot.

I am so glad the Doctor is back! This Doctor is more fun to watch. Friday's episode frightened the Dickens out of me!

I thought last week's episode was hilarious when Rose mentioned getting felt up by the undertaker and The Doctor laughed!

I missed it this week ... is it repeated tonight, as BSG customarily is/was?

Qapla'

SSB

I too enjoyed the episode.
I love how eager the Doctor is to find anything unusual or dangerous.

I too enjoyed the episode.
I love how eager the Doctor is to find anything unusual or dangerous.

That was great!
Woman's voice off camera: "EEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
Doctor: "That's more like it!" (runs off smiling).

Glad you guys liked this one! I adore it. Great script all around. A return to the flavor of Who I love best, perfect blend of gothic horror, science fiction, drama, and wit.

"What was with the American bit in Martin Chuzzlewit? That was rubbish, that was."
"I thought you were a 'fan'?"
"Well, if you can't take a little criticism..."

"The stiffs 'r' gettin' lively again!"

Great production values too. That shot of the opening teaser with the dead woman! And the snow swirling into the space just vacated by the TAARDIS.

it certainly ranked with some of the best of the original series.

I loved the swirly snow! GREAT little touch!

it certainly ranked with some of the best of the original series.It figures I missed this one! :rolleyes:

Oh well .. . at least there's a new LOST tonight -- a Locke-centric episode this week.

Qapla'

SSB

I like the directions to the wardrobe.

I'll have to send my daughter in here, she memorized them.

As most know, the DVDs come out July 4. It will be 5 DVDs, 13 episodes, for retail $100.00!

First left, second right, third on your left, straight ahead, under the stairs, past the bins, fifth door on your left.

As most know, the DVDs come out July 4. It will be 5 DVDs, 13 episodes, for retail $100.00!Ah! A bargain, then! :eek:

Qapla'

SSB

So much for THAT!

I hate 2 part episodes.

But besides that, I liked this one a lot.
Very British the way everyone was worried more about things in their lives than the UFO that crash landed in the middle of the city.

Some good references to past things in the Who mythology.

I also like the way the Doctor took control of the troops when the 'alien' broke loose.

I like "Doctor Who" so far. I have seen four episodes, and they "feel" like the Doctor. I am glad the producers aren't trying to update the story (like Battlestar Galactica) It is like watching a continuation of all the seasons I've seen.
(And I have seen all the "Doctors"!)

Remember earlier in the thread, there was an upcoming two-parter alluded to as "really good"? This one isn't it.

It's a mixed bag for me. Some good, some bad. What is it with R.T. Davies' fixation on belching and farting??

OTOH, I loved the twists given to old tropes. Aliens have invaded - the Doctor strides to the fore and takes command? No, he's stuck in suburban hell watching live news reports of it on the telly! :lol: People in monster suits with obvious zippers? Close. Got the obvious zippers, at least.

Cliffhagers are back, but they haven't got the hang of timing them well yet.

This was another Davies script. His satire is as subtle as a brick through a window - but then, you haven't seen part two yet...

yeah i see this 2 parter as the low point of the season. fortunatly they worked really hard and redeemed themselves afterwards.
i dont want to carry on the longstanding whovian tradition of producer bashing, but it really seems that what davies sees as funny and cool is really just juvinile and dumb. the flying arm, lady "bitchy trampoline" cassandra (who returns next season?!?!?!?!?!), the farting thing... y'know if he could just get past that aspect (which he seems to think is really excellent), this good new series could become this great new series.

what davies sees as funny and cool is really just juvinile and dumb. the flying arm, lady "bitchy trampoline" cassandra (who returns next season

Hey.
I liked both of those things.